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frank goodnight

Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 126

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:56 am Post subject: Right turn

Kolbers 

Just starting to get used to my mk3 classic. I have a question for those of you with

experience in mk3s. I fly from the right seat, after a bit of fooling around with the flaps and wing incedence i have got the

plane so it flys pretty much straight and level, handsoff. I find the ailerons to be very heavy

and slow to react, much more so than my Firestar. If I enter a decending left turn at about

75 mph ---nothing radical just a normal turn to left base ,close pattern---to roll level takes about

3 seconds and enough right stick and rudder pressure that I'm almost afraid something will

break I' m tempted to use both hands on the stick. Doesn't seem to matter much what power

setting is used. If the initial turn is to the right there seems not to be a problem to roll left

to level. From level flight the problem is much less pronounced, although it is somewhat

easier to turn left than to turn right.Any thoughts and comments would be much appreciated.

I don't think it's dangerous , but not sure

Frank Goodnight

Fayetteville ,AR

912 uls

Sent from my iPad

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:30 am Post subject: Right turn

What kind of fooling around with the flaps and incidence did you do?

 If you have trimmed the plane by putting the wings and control surfaces out of proper alignment instead of installing a trim tab that may be adding to the condition???

 As for the heavy stick,, mine was a bit heavy as well, I drilled holes about 1 inch in on the control linkage just above the boom tube,  this gives a bit more mechanical advantage

 Do you have a912? If so you should need Bit of right rudder,,,a trim there will reduce the pilot work load

 Boyd Young On Aug 29, 2014 6:58 AM, "Frank Goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote:[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: Frank Goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)>

 

 Kolbers

 Just starting to get used to my mk3 classic. I have a question for those of you with

 experience in mk3s. I fly from the right seat, after a bit of fooling around with the flaps and wing incedence i have got the

 plane so it flys pretty much straight and level, handsoff. I find the ailerons to be very heavy

 and slow to react, much more so than my Firestar. If I enter a decending left turn at about

 75 mph ---nothing radical just a normal turn to left base ,close pattern---to roll level takes about

 3 seconds and enough right stick and rudder pressure that I'm almost afraid something will

 break I' m tempted to use both hands on the stick. Doesn't seem to matter much what power

 setting is used. If the initial turn is to the right there seems not to be a problem to roll left

 to level. From level flight the problem is much less pronounced, although it is somewhat

 easier to turn left than to turn right.Any thoughts and comments would be much appreciated.

 I don't think it's dangerous , but not sure

 Frank Goodnight

 Fayetteville ,AR

 912 uls

 Sent from my iPad

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

colin.scott.hudson(at)gma
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:02 am Post subject: Right turn

Frank when I switched to dual controls on my M3Xtra I had the same problem, too much slack and not enough leverage.  I hated it.  Switched back to single control and the problem went away.  You didn't say what type of controls you have, but that may be it.  By the way, anybody that would like a set of dual controls, I'll sell them cheap.



Scott Hudson

Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Aug 29, 2014, at 7:56 AM, Frank Goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 Kolbers 

 Just starting to get used to my mk3 classic. I have a question for those of you with

 experience in mk3s. I fly from the right seat, after a bit of fooling around with the flaps and wing incedence i have got the

 plane so it flys pretty much straight and level, handsoff. I find the ailerons to be very heavy

 and slow to react, much more so than my Firestar. If I enter a decending left turn at about

 75 mph ---nothing radical just a normal turn to left base ,close pattern---to roll level takes about

 3 seconds and enough right stick and rudder pressure that I'm almost afraid something will

 break I' m tempted to use both hands on the stick. Doesn't seem to matter much what power

 setting is used. If the initial turn is to the right there seems not to be a problem to roll left

 to level. From level flight the problem is much less pronounced, although it is somewhat

 easier to turn left than to turn right.Any thoughts and comments would be much appreciated.

 I don't think it's dangerous , but not sure

 Frank Goodnight

 Fayetteville ,AR

 912 uls

 Sent from my iPad

frank goodnight

Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 126

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:27 am Post subject: Right turn

Hi Boyd,

Thanks for your reply.

When I bought the plane from Bruce he was flying it from the left seat and I suppose

had it trimmed to suit him. I switched to the right seat so the throttle is on my left , been

on the left in every plane I've ever owned. I almost tore the trim lever out of the MK3

the first timeI landed it from the left seat trying to get to idle rpm. When I switched to the right seat

The right wing was extremely heavy. I called kolb and talked to Travis and to Bryan, Bryan

Suggested two things. He explained that because of the way the flaps are attached to the

torque tube for the ailerons they can be used as huge aileron trim tabs and should be adjusted 

the same way as if you were adjusting a Alieron trim tab , I did that and it helped to raise the

right wing. Travis had told me that in order to sell Kolbs in England there has to be a way to

Adjust the incidence of the wings. In order to comply Kolb sells an extra wide 1/2 of the u joint

that attaches the trailing edge of the wing to the fuselage. The adjustment is made by stacking

4 washers above or below the attach point. Bryan suggested that if I needed more adjustment

than I could get with the flaps I should try that , I lowered the angle of attack of the left wing

By 4 washers--don't know many degrees--it worked , the plane flys straight and level hands

off and the yaw string is right down the middle at cruise. So tail trim tab is OK. I do have a

912 ULS 100HP The only problem is the one I mentioned in the earlier post.I would like to

hear from any and all kolb pilots.

Frank G

Fayetteville ,AR

PS Boyd I changed the hole position on the Firestar , it helped. Will look into doing it to the

MK3 tomorrow, thanks



Sent from my iPad



On Aug 29, 2014, at 8:29 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]

What kind of fooling around with the flaps and incidence did you do?

 If you have trimmed the plane by putting the wings and control surfaces out of proper alignment instead of installing a trim tab that may be adding to the condition???

 As for the heavy stick,, mine was a bit heavy as well, I drilled holes about 1 inch in on the control linkage just above the boom tube,  this gives a bit more mechanical advantage

 Do you have a912? If so you should need Bit of right rudder,,,a trim there will reduce the pilot work load

 Boyd Young On Aug 29, 2014 6:58 AM, "Frank Goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: Frank Goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)>

 

 Kolbers

 Just starting to get used to my mk3 classic. I have a question for those of you with

 experience in mk3s. I fly from the right seat, after a bit of fooling around with the flaps and wing incedence i have got the

 plane so it flys pretty much straight and level, handsoff. I find the ailerons to be very heavy

 and slow to react, much more so than my Firestar. If I enter a decending left turn at about

 75 mph ---nothing radical just a normal turn to left base ,close pattern---to roll level takes about

 3 seconds and enough right stick and rudder pressure that I'm almost afraid something will

 break I' m tempted to use both hands on the stick. Doesn't seem to matter much what power

 setting is used. If the initial turn is to the right there seems not to be a problem to roll left

 to level. From level flight the problem is much less pronounced, although it is somewhat

 easier to turn left than to turn right.Any thoughts and comments would be much appreciated.

 I don't think it's dangerous , but not sure

 Frank Goodnight

 Fayetteville ,AR

 912 uls

 Sent from my iPad

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



===================================

://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

===================================

cs.com

===================================

matronics.com/contribution

===================================



	


[b]

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject: Right turn

When I first flew my plane it had the same till you describe,, and had to hold a lot of left stick,,, but when you looked at the trailing edges of ailerons and flaps it all lined up perfect....  I did all the changes you have done,, it flew hands off,, but the trailing edges were out of line....bad....I undid my fixes and put on a trim tab...note it flies hand off and the trailing edges line up again...  

Maybe you should add linkage and add a,, second,, left hand throttle 

Boyd Young On Aug 29, 2014 12:29 PM, "Frank Goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote:[quote] Hi Boyd,

Thanks for your reply.

When I bought the plane from Bruce he was flying it from the left seat and I suppose

had it trimmed to suit him. I switched to the right seat so the throttle is on my left , been

 on the left in every plane I've ever owned. I almost tore the trim lever out of the MK3

the first timeI landed it from the left seat trying to get to idle rpm. When I switched to the right seat

 The right wing was extremely heavy. I called kolb and talked to Travis and to Bryan, Bryan

Suggested two things. He explained that because of the way the flaps are attached to the

torque tube for the ailerons they can be used as huge aileron trim tabs and should be adjusted 

 the same way as if you were adjusting a Alieron trim tab , I did that and it helped to raise the

right wing. Travis had told me that in order to sell Kolbs in England there has to be a way to

Adjust the incidence of the wings. In order to comply Kolb sells an extra wide 1/2 of the u joint

 that attaches the trailing edge of the wing to the fuselage. The adjustment is made by stacking

4 washers above or below the attach point. Bryan suggested that if I needed more adjustment

than I could get with the flaps I should try that , I lowered the angle of attack of the left wing

 By 4 washers--don't know many degrees--it worked , the plane flys straight and level hands

off and the yaw string is right down the middle at cruise. So tail trim tab is OK. I do have a

912 ULS 100HP The only problem is the one I mentioned in the earlier post.I would like to

 hear from any and all kolb pilots.

Frank G

Fayetteville ,AR

PS Boyd I changed the hole position on the Firestar , it helped. Will look into doing it to the

MK3 tomorrow, thanks

 

Sent from my iPad



On Aug 29, 2014, at 8:29 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

What kind of fooling around with the flaps and incidence did you do?

 If you have trimmed the plane by putting the wings and control surfaces out of proper alignment instead of installing a trim tab that may be adding to the condition???

 As for the heavy stick,, mine was a bit heavy as well, I drilled holes about 1 inch in on the control linkage just above the boom tube,  this gives a bit more mechanical advantage

 Do you have a912? If so you should need Bit of right rudder,,,a trim there will reduce the pilot work load

 Boyd Young On Aug 29, 2014 6:58 AM, "Frank Goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		    --> Kolb-List message posted by: Frank Goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)>

 

 Kolbers

 Just starting to get used to my mk3 classic. I have a question for those of you with

 experience in mk3s. I fly from the right seat, after a bit of fooling around with the flaps and wing incedence i have got the

 plane so it flys pretty much straight and level, handsoff. I find the ailerons to be very heavy

 and slow to react, much more so than my Firestar. If I enter a decending left turn at about

 75 mph ---nothing radical just a normal turn to left base ,close pattern---to roll level takes about

 3 seconds and enough right stick and rudder pressure that I'm almost afraid something will

 break I' m tempted to use both hands on the stick. Doesn't seem to matter much what power

 setting is used. If the initial turn is to the right there seems not to be a problem to roll left

 to level. From level flight the problem is much less pronounced, although it is somewhat

 easier to turn left than to turn right.Any thoughts and comments would be much appreciated.

 I don't think it's dangerous , but not sure

 Frank Goodnight

 Fayetteville ,AR

 912 uls

 Sent from my iPad

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



==========

://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

==========

cs.com

==========

matronics.com/contribution

==========



	






get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

frank goodnight

Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 126

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:20 pm Post subject: Right turn

Thanks for your response. Will keep

Your fix in mind and try it in the next

Couple of weeks. Will let you know

If it works on my plane.

Frank



Sent from my iPhone



On Aug 29, 2014, at 1:26 PM, Frank Goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote:

[quote]Hi Boyd,

Thanks for your reply.

When I bought the plane from Bruce he was flying it from the left seat and I suppose

had it trimmed to suit him. I switched to the right seat so the throttle is on my left , been

on the left in every plane I've ever owned. I almost tore the trim lever out of the MK3

the first timeI landed it from the left seat trying to get to idle rpm. When I switched to the right seat

The right wing was extremely heavy. I called kolb and talked to Travis and to Bryan, Bryan

Suggested two things. He explained that because of the way the flaps are attached to the

torque tube for the ailerons they can be used as huge aileron trim tabs and should be adjusted 

the same way as if you were adjusting a Alieron trim tab , I did that and it helped to raise the

right wing. Travis had told me that in order to sell Kolbs in England there has to be a way to

Adjust the incidence of the wings. In order to comply Kolb sells an extra wide 1/2 of the u joint

that attaches the trailing edge of the wing to the fuselage. The adjustment is made by stacking

4 washers above or below the attach point. Bryan suggested that if I needed more adjustment

than I could get with the flaps I should try that , I lowered the angle of attack of the left wing

By 4 washers--don't know many degrees--it worked , the plane flys straight and level hands

off and the yaw string is right down the middle at cruise. So tail trim tab is OK. I do have a

912 ULS 100HP The only problem is the one I mentioned in the earlier post.I would like to

hear from any and all kolb pilots.

Frank G

Fayetteville ,AR

PS Boyd I changed the hole position on the Firestar , it helped. Will look into doing it to the

MK3 tomorrow, thanks



Sent from my iPad



On Aug 29, 2014, at 8:29 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

What kind of fooling around with the flaps and incidence did you do?

 If you have trimmed the plane by putting the wings and control surfaces out of proper alignment instead of installing a trim tab that may be adding to the condition???

 As for the heavy stick,, mine was a bit heavy as well, I drilled holes about 1 inch in on the control linkage just above the boom tube,  this gives a bit more mechanical advantage

 Do you have a912? If so you should need Bit of right rudder,,,a trim there will reduce the pilot work load

 Boyd Young On Aug 29, 2014 6:58 AM, "Frank Goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: Frank Goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)>

 

 Kolbers

 Just starting to get used to my mk3 classic. I have a question for those of you with

 experience in mk3s. I fly from the right seat, after a bit of fooling around with the flaps and wing incedence i have got the

 plane so it flys pretty much straight and level, handsoff. I find the ailerons to be very heavy

 and slow to react, much more so than my Firestar. If I enter a decending left turn at about

 75 mph ---nothing radical just a normal turn to left base ,close pattern---to roll level takes about

 3 seconds and enough right stick and rudder pressure that I'm almost afraid something will

 break I' m tempted to use both hands on the stick. Doesn't seem to matter much what power

 setting is used. If the initial turn is to the right there seems not to be a problem to roll left

 to level. From level flight the problem is much less pronounced, although it is somewhat

 easier to turn left than to turn right.Any thoughts and comments would be much appreciated.

 I don't think it's dangerous , but not sure

 Frank Goodnight

 Fayetteville ,AR

 912 uls

 Sent from my iPad

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



===================================

://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

===================================

cs.com

===================================

matronics.com/contribution

===================================



	






===================================

://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

===================================

cs.com

===================================

matronics.com/contribution

===================================



	


[b]

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:05 pm Post subject: Right turn

My trim tab is about 3 1/2. By just longer than 1 bay width..

 At 1 1/2 inch I bent the tab do when the 1 1/2 is on the table the 2 inch side is about 1/2 to5/8 off at the trailing edge..

 Installed on the bottom side of the left aileron Roth the bend down

 Boyd Young On Aug 29, 2014 6:21 PM, "Frank" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote:[quote] Thanks for your response. Will keep

Your fix in mind and try it in the next

Couple of weeks. Will let you know

If it works on my plane.

Frank



Sent from my iPhone

 

On Aug 29, 2014, at 1:26 PM, Frank Goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Boyd,

Thanks for your reply.

 When I bought the plane from Bruce he was flying it from the left seat and I suppose

had it trimmed to suit him. I switched to the right seat so the throttle is on my left , been

on the left in every plane I've ever owned. I almost tore the trim lever out of the MK3

 the first timeI landed it from the left seat trying to get to idle rpm. When I switched to the right seat

The right wing was extremely heavy. I called kolb and talked to Travis and to Bryan, Bryan

 Suggested two things. He explained that because of the way the flaps are attached to the

torque tube for the ailerons they can be used as huge aileron trim tabs and should be adjusted 

the same way as if you were adjusting a Alieron trim tab , I did that and it helped to raise the

 right wing. Travis had told me that in order to sell Kolbs in England there has to be a way to

Adjust the incidence of the wings. In order to comply Kolb sells an extra wide 1/2 of the u joint

that attaches the trailing edge of the wing to the fuselage. The adjustment is made by stacking

 4 washers above or below the attach point. Bryan suggested that if I needed more adjustment

than I could get with the flaps I should try that , I lowered the angle of attack of the left wing

By 4 washers--don't know many degrees--it worked , the plane flys straight and level hands

 off and the yaw string is right down the middle at cruise. So tail trim tab is OK. I do have a

912 ULS 100HP The only problem is the one I mentioned in the earlier post.I would like to

hear from any and all kolb pilots.

 Frank G

Fayetteville ,AR

PS Boyd I changed the hole position on the Firestar , it helped. Will look into doing it to the

MK3 tomorrow, thanks



Sent from my iPad



 On Aug 29, 2014, at 8:29 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

What kind of fooling around with the flaps and incidence did you do?

  If you have trimmed the plane by putting the wings and control surfaces out of proper alignment instead of installing a trim tab that may be adding to the condition???

 As for the heavy stick,, mine was a bit heavy as well, I drilled holes about 1 inch in on the control linkage just above the boom tube,  this gives a bit more mechanical advantage

 Do you have a912? If so you should need Bit of right rudder,,,a trim there will reduce the pilot work load

 Boyd Young On Aug 29, 2014 6:58 AM, "Frank Goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		    --> Kolb-List message posted by: Frank Goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)>

 

 Kolbers

 Just starting to get used to my mk3 classic. I have a question for those of you with

 experience in mk3s. I fly from the right seat, after a bit of fooling around with the flaps and wing incedence i have got the

 plane so it flys pretty much straight and level, handsoff. I find the ailerons to be very heavy

 and slow to react, much more so than my Firestar. If I enter a decending left turn at about

 75 mph ---nothing radical just a normal turn to left base ,close pattern---to roll level takes about

 3 seconds and enough right stick and rudder pressure that I'm almost afraid something will

 break I' m tempted to use both hands on the stick. Doesn't seem to matter much what power

 setting is used. If the initial turn is to the right there seems not to be a problem to roll left

 to level. From level flight the problem is much less pronounced, although it is somewhat

 easier to turn left than to turn right.Any thoughts and comments would be much appreciated.

 I don't think it's dangerous , but not sure

 Frank Goodnight

 Fayetteville ,AR

 912 uls

 Sent from my iPad

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



==========

://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

==========

cs.com

==========

matronics.com/contribution

==========



	






==========

://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

==========

cs.com

==========

matronics.com/contribution

==========



	






get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

frank goodnight

Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 126

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:09 pm Post subject: Right turn

Thanks Boyd

I'll let you know how it turns out

but it will be a couple of weeks

Frank



Sent from my iPhone



On Aug 29, 2014, at 8:04 PM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]

My trim tab is about 3 1/2. By just longer than 1 bay width...

 At 1 1/2 inch I bent the tab do when the 1 1/2 is on the table the 2 inch side is about 1/2 to5/8 off at the trailing edge..

 Installed on the bottom side of the left aileron Roth the bend down

 Boyd Young On Aug 29, 2014 6:21 PM, "Frank" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		   Thanks for your response. Will keep

Your fix in mind and try it in the next

Couple of weeks. Will let you know

If it works on my plane.

Frank



Sent from my iPhone

 

On Aug 29, 2014, at 1:26 PM, Frank Goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Boyd,

Thanks for your reply.

 When I bought the plane from Bruce he was flying it from the left seat and I suppose

had it trimmed to suit him. I switched to the right seat so the throttle is on my left , been

on the left in every plane I've ever owned. I almost tore the trim lever out of the MK3

 the first timeI landed it from the left seat trying to get to idle rpm. When I switched to the right seat

The right wing was extremely heavy. I called kolb and talked to Travis and to Bryan, Bryan

 Suggested two things. He explained that because of the way the flaps are attached to the

torque tube for the ailerons they can be used as huge aileron trim tabs and should be adjusted 

the same way as if you were adjusting a Alieron trim tab , I did that and it helped to raise the

 right wing. Travis had told me that in order to sell Kolbs in England there has to be a way to

Adjust the incidence of the wings. In order to comply Kolb sells an extra wide 1/2 of the u joint

that attaches the trailing edge of the wing to the fuselage. The adjustment is made by stacking

 4 washers above or below the attach point. Bryan suggested that if I needed more adjustment

than I could get with the flaps I should try that , I lowered the angle of attack of the left wing

By 4 washers--don't know many degrees--it worked , the plane flys straight and level hands

 off and the yaw string is right down the middle at cruise. So tail trim tab is OK. I do have a

912 ULS 100HP The only problem is the one I mentioned in the earlier post.I would like to

hear from any and all kolb pilots.

 Frank G

Fayetteville ,AR

PS Boyd I changed the hole position on the Firestar , it helped. Will look into doing it to the

MK3 tomorrow, thanks



Sent from my iPad



 On Aug 29, 2014, at 8:29 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

What kind of fooling around with the flaps and incidence did you do?

  If you have trimmed the plane by putting the wings and control surfaces out of proper alignment instead of installing a trim tab that may be adding to the condition???

 As for the heavy stick,, mine was a bit heavy as well, I drilled holes about 1 inch in on the control linkage just above the boom tube,  this gives a bit more mechanical advantage

 Do you have a912? If so you should need Bit of right rudder,,,a trim there will reduce the pilot work load

 Boyd Young On Aug 29, 2014 6:58 AM, "Frank Goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		    --> Kolb-List message posted by: Frank Goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)>

 

 Kolbers

 Just starting to get used to my mk3 classic. I have a question for those of you with

 experience in mk3s. I fly from the right seat, after a bit of fooling around with the flaps and wing incedence i have got the

 plane so it flys pretty much straight and level, handsoff. I find the ailerons to be very heavy

 and slow to react, much more so than my Firestar. If I enter a decending left turn at about

 75 mph ---nothing radical just a normal turn to left base ,close pattern---to roll level takes about

 3 seconds and enough right stick and rudder pressure that I'm almost afraid something will

 break I' m tempted to use both hands on the stick. Doesn't seem to matter much what power

 setting is used. If the initial turn is to the right there seems not to be a problem to roll left

 to level. From level flight the problem is much less pronounced, although it is somewhat

 easier to turn left than to turn right.Any thoughts and comments would be much appreciated.

 I don't think it's dangerous , but not sure

 Frank Goodnight

 Fayetteville ,AR

 912 uls

 Sent from my iPad

 

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[b]

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Right turn

Since the aileron trim changes depending on whether you have a passenger or not, I made my trim tab adjustable.

http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg6.htm



I also made the mod to change aileron leverage.

http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg7.htm

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:57 am Post subject: Right turn

Frank



The Kolb MKIII isn't a firestar or firefly. The ailerons are a bit heavy compared to the lighter Kolbs and the roll rate is more leisurely. The best way to fix roll trim issues is to use the English trim fitting that Kolb offers. That way you get all flying surfaces all going the same direction. Trim tabs and flap adjustments may resolve the issue but add unnecessary drag.

 



The stick forces you describe are not normal and I would not fly it that way. Well... I'm right handed and fly from the left seat is your left arm weak? Go back over what you have done and make sure you haven't introduced a problem. Aileron control force in a MKIIIC is heaver than elevator control force but is never to the point that you would need two hands. Everything set up correctly roll forces should be the same right and left. Homer designed the ailerons to have enough power to handle wind direction changes that can occur flying slow near the ground, moving the hinge point to make it easier also reduces the deflection that you might need someday. 

 



Worth what you paid for it, refunds available anytime.

Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Frank Goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote:

 [quote]Hi Boyd,

Thanks for your reply.

When I bought the plane from Bruce he was flying it from the left seat and I suppose

 had it trimmed to suit him. I switched to the right seat so the throttle is on my left , been

on the left in every plane I've ever owned. I almost tore the trim lever out of the MK3

the first timeI landed it from the left seat trying to get to idle rpm. When I switched to the right seat

 The right wing was extremely heavy. I called kolb and talked to Travis and to Bryan, Bryan

Suggested two things. He explained that because of the way the flaps are attached to the

torque tube for the ailerons they can be used as huge aileron trim tabs and should be adjusted 

 the same way as if you were adjusting a Alieron trim tab , I did that and it helped to raise the

right wing. Travis had told me that in order to sell Kolbs in England there has to be a way to

Adjust the incidence of the wings. In order to comply Kolb sells an extra wide 1/2 of the u joint

 that attaches the trailing edge of the wing to the fuselage. The adjustment is made by stacking

4 washers above or below the attach point. Bryan suggested that if I needed more adjustment

than I could get with the flaps I should try that , I lowered the angle of attack of the left wing

 By 4 washers--don't know many degrees--it worked , the plane flys straight and level hands

off and the yaw string is right down the middle at cruise. So tail trim tab is OK. I do have a

912 ULS 100HP The only problem is the one I mentioned in the earlier post.I would like to

 hear from any and all kolb pilots.

Frank G

Fayetteville ,AR

PS Boyd I changed the hole position on the Firestar , it helped. Will look into doing it to the

MK3 tomorrow, thanks

 

Sent from my iPad



On Aug 29, 2014, at 8:29 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

What kind of fooling around with the flaps and incidence did you do?

 If you have trimmed the plane by putting the wings and control surfaces out of proper alignment instead of installing a trim tab that may be adding to the condition???

 As for the heavy stick,, mine was a bit heavy as well, I drilled holes about 1 inch in on the control linkage just above the boom tube,  this gives a bit more mechanical advantage

 Do you have a912? If so you should need Bit of right rudder,,,a trim there will reduce the pilot work load

 Boyd Young 

On Aug 29, 2014 6:58 AM, "Frank Goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: Frank Goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)>

 

 Kolbers

 Just starting to get used to my mk3 classic. I have a question for those of you with

 experience in mk3s. I fly from the right seat, after a bit of fooling around with the flaps and wing incedence i have got the

 plane so it flys pretty much straight and level, handsoff. I find the ailerons to be very heavy

 and slow to react, much more so than my Firestar. If I enter a decending left turn at about

 75 mph ---nothing radical just a normal turn to left base ,close pattern---to roll level takes about

 3 seconds and enough right stick and rudder pressure that I'm almost afraid something will

 break I' m tempted to use both hands on the stick. Doesn't seem to matter much what power

 setting is used. If the initial turn is to the right there seems not to be a problem to roll left

 to level. From level flight the problem is much less pronounced, although it is somewhat

 easier to turn left than to turn right.Any thoughts and comments would be much appreciated.

 I don't think it's dangerous , but not sure

 Frank Goodnight

 Fayetteville ,AR

 912 uls

 Sent from my iPad

 



 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

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 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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[b]

Guideman

Joined: 31 Oct 2013
Posts: 23

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Right turn

 	  colin.scott.hudson(at)gma wrote: 	
		  Frank when I switched to dual controls on my M3Xtra I had the same problem, too much slack and not enough leverage.  I hated it.  Switched back to single control and the problem went away.  You didn't say what type of controls you have, but that may be it.  By the way, anybody that would like a set of dual controls, I'll sell them cheap.



Scott Hudson

Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Aug 29, 2014, at 7:56 AM, Frank Goodnight <frank> wrote:

 

 

 

 Kolbers 

 Just starting to get used to my mk3 classic. I have a question for those of you with

 experience in mk3s. I fly from the right seat, after a bit of fooling around with the flaps and wing incedence i have got the

 plane so it flys pretty much straight and level, handsoff. I find the ailerons to be very heavy

 and slow to react, much more so than my Firestar. If I enter a decending left turn at about

 75 mph ---nothing radical just a normal turn to left base ,close pattern---to roll level takes about

 3 seconds and enough right stick and rudder pressure that I'm almost afraid something will

 break I' m tempted to use both hands on the stick. Doesn't seem to matter much what power

 setting is used. If the initial turn is to the right there seems not to be a problem to roll left

 to level. From level flight the problem is much less pronounced, although it is somewhat

 easier to turn left than to turn right.Any thoughts and comments would be much appreciated.

 I don't think it's dangerous , but not sure

 Frank Goodnight

 Fayetteville ,AR

 912 uls

 Sent from my iPad

Guideman

Joined: 31 Oct 2013
Posts: 23

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Right turn

 	  colin.scott.hudson(at)gma wrote: 	
		  Frank when I switched to dual controls on my M3Xtra I had the same problem, too much slack and not enough leverage.  I hated it.  Switched back to single control and the problem went away.  You didn't say what type of controls you have, but that may be it.  By the way, anybody that would like a set of dual controls, I'll sell them cheap.



Scott Hudson

Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Aug 29, 2014, at 7:56 AM, Frank Goodnight <frank> wrote:

 

 

 

 Kolbers 

 Just starting to get used to my mk3 classic. I have a question for those of you with

 experience in mk3s. I fly from the right seat, after a bit of fooling around with the flaps and wing incedence i have got the

 plane so it flys pretty much straight and level, handsoff. I find the ailerons to be very heavy

 and slow to react, much more so than my Firestar. If I enter a decending left turn at about

 75 mph ---nothing radical just a normal turn to left base ,close pattern---to roll level takes about

 3 seconds and enough right stick and rudder pressure that I'm almost afraid something will

 break I' m tempted to use both hands on the stick. Doesn't seem to matter much what power

 setting is used. If the initial turn is to the right there seems not to be a problem to roll left

 to level. From level flight the problem is much less pronounced, although it is somewhat

 easier to turn left than to turn right.Any thoughts and comments would be much appreciated.

 I don't think it's dangerous , but not sure

 Frank Goodnight

 Fayetteville ,AR

 912 uls

 Sent from my iPad

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