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pa3arw(at)ziggo.nl
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 Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:16 am Post subject: AvMAP Ultra EFIS |
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Hi Yakkers,
I own a YAK52/PH-YAK, based in the Netherlands.
I am looking to replace the front horizon with the latest AvMAP Ultra EFIS.
Because of the Special CofA which we have in the Netherlands our CAA is not authorized to give their blessing on this possible installation.
They will, however, accept an approval from any other CAA or e.g. FAA.
Now on the website of AvMAP under the heading of the Ultra EFIS a photograph is shown of an installed EFIS in a YAK52 with callsign N58GC.
Does anybody know the owner of this YAK or does anybody else have a document which shows the approval of this device for use in a YAK52??
Thanks to the net for helping me out on this matter.
Hans Oortman
PH-YAK
[quote][b]
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:00 am Post subject: AvMAP Ultra EFIS |
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Hans,
Since all Yak 52's registered in the US are certified in the Experimental Exhibition category, (the key word is "experimental), they do not require any "approval" by the FAA other than the annual condition inspection which confirms the airplane is in a condition for safe operation. So we here in the US may not be much help with regards to an "approval". Effectively all that is normally done is a log book entry stating the installation of such and such device. Then during the condition inspection an FAA certified mechanic signs off the condition inspection certifying the airplane is "in a condition for safe operation".
The owner of N58GC is listed in the FAA aircraft registration data base. Use this link and enter the N number of the airplane and it will pull up all public information pertaining to that specific airplane.
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Inquiry.aspx
Hope this helps.
Dennis
From: Hans Oortman <pa3arw(at)ziggo.nl> To: yak-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 6:15 AM Subject: Yak-List: AvMAP Ultra EFIS
AvMAP Ultra EFIS Hi Yakkers, I own a YAK52/PH-YAK, based in the Netherlands. I am looking to replace the front horizon with the latest AvMAP Ultra EFIS. Because of the Special CofA which we have in the Netherlands our CAA is not authorized to give their blessing on this possible installation. They will, however, accept an approval from any other CAA or e.g. FAA. Now on the website of AvMAP under the heading of the Ultra EFIS a photograph is shown of an installed EFIS in a YAK52 with callsign N58GC. Does anybody know the owner of this YAK or does anybody else have a document which shows the approval of this device for use in a YAK52?? Thanks to the net for helping me out on this matter. Hans Oortman PH-YAK [quote][b]http://forums.matronics.com style="" class="" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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GeorgeCoy
Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:01 am Post subject: AvMAP Ultra EFIS |
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58GC is owned by Grant Farrell in Illinois. unfortunately it will not help you, as it is an experimental aircraft here in the U.S. and FAA approval is not required to install the AVmap Ultra EFIS. Your might be better off with a Dynon system as they are installed in several Light Sport aircraft and sort of 1/2 way are blessed by the FAA.
George Coy
PS the GC in 58GC are my initials. It means it was one the we imported.
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 7:16 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: AvMAP Ultra EFIS
Hi Yakkers,
I own a YAK52/PH-YAK, based in the Netherlands.
I am looking to replace the front horizon with the latest AvMAP Ultra EFIS.
Because of the Special CofA which we have in the Netherlands our CAA is not authorized to give their blessing on this possible installation.
They will, however, accept an approval from any other CAA or e.g. FAA.
Now on the website of AvMAP under the heading of the Ultra EFIS a photograph is shown of an installed EFIS in a YAK52 with callsign N58GC.
Does anybody know the owner of this YAK or does anybody else have a document which shows the approval of this device for use in a YAK52??
Thanks to the net for helping me out on this matter.
Hans Oortman
PH-YAK | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
01234567
[quote][b]
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Dale
Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:27 am Post subject: Re: AvMAP Ultra EFIS |
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AvMap is a Eu company based in Italy. You might see if there is any chance they are working on a Eu cert. Grant works for AvMap.
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pa3arw(at)ziggo.nl
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:20 am Post subject: AvMAP Ultra EFIS |
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Thanks George...
It’s a small world.... I am looking specifically for Yak52’s. Our CAA doesn’t care about other aircraft.
My best chance will probably be in the UK or France for this matter.
Thanks again for the info.
Hans O.
PH-YAK
Op 28-08-14 14:00, George S. Coy <[url=george.coy(at)gmail.com]george.coy(at)gmail.com[/url]> schreef:
[quote]58GC is owned by Grant Farrell in Illinois. unfortunately it will not help you, as it is an experimental aircraft here in the U.S. and FAA approval is not required to install the AVmap Ultra EFIS. Your might be better off with a Dynon system as they are installed in several Light Sport aircraft and sort of 1/2 way are blessed by the FAA.
George Coy
PS the GC in 58GC are my initials. It means it was one the we imported.
From: mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 7:16 AM
To: [url=yak-list(at)matronics.com]yak-list(at)matronics.com[/url]
Subject: AvMAP Ultra EFIS
Hi Yakkers,
I own a YAK52/PH-YAK, based in the Netherlands.
I am looking to replace the front horizon with the latest AvMAP Ultra EFIS.
Because of the Special CofA which we have in the Netherlands our CAA is not authorized to give their blessing on this possible installation.
They will, however, accept an approval from any other CAA or e.g. FAA.
Now on the website of AvMAP under the heading of the Ultra EFIS a photograph is shown of an installed EFIS in a YAK52 with callsign N58GC.
Does anybody know the owner of this YAK or does anybody else have a document which shows the approval of this device for use in a YAK52??
Thanks to the net for helping me out on this matter.
Hans Oortman
PH-YAK
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ail Forum -
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
matronics.com
;- List Contribution Web Site -
; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
://www.matronics.com/contribution
[b]
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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:34 am Post subject: AvMAP Ultra EFIS |
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Hello Hans,
I think that you can get support for this from Lithuania. The odds are that they (Termikas) already did this.
Since Lithuania plays the European EASA game, if their CAA allows it, then that's a good argument towards the Dutch CAA.
BR,
Jan
From: Hans Oortman <pa3arw(at)ziggo.nl (pa3arw(at)ziggo.nl)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday 29 August 2014 09:35
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: AvMAP Ultra EFIS
Re: AvMAP Ultra EFISThanks George...
It’s a small world.... I am looking specifically for Yak52’s. Our CAA doesn’t care about other aircraft.
My best chance will probably be in the UK or France for this matter.
Thanks again for the info.
Hans O.
PH-YAK
Op 28-08-14 14:00, George S. Coy <[url=george.coy(at)gmail.com]george.coy(at)gmail.com[/url]> schreef:
| Quote: | 58GC is owned by Grant Farrell in Illinois. unfortunately it will not help you, as it is an experimental aircraft here in the U.S. and FAA approval is not required to install the AVmap Ultra EFIS. Your might be better off with a Dynon system as they are installed in several Light Sport aircraft and sort of 1/2 way are blessed by the FAA.
George Coy
PS the GC in 58GC are my initials. It means it was one the we imported.
From: mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 7:16 AM
To: [url=yak-list(at)matronics.com]yak-list(at)matronics.com[/url]
Subject: AvMAP Ultra EFIS
Hi Yakkers,
I own a YAK52/PH-YAK, based in the Netherlands.
I am looking to replace the front horizon with the latest AvMAP Ultra EFIS.
Because of the Special CofA which we have in the Netherlands our CAA is not authorized to give their blessing on this possible installation.
They will, however, accept an approval from any other CAA or e.g. FAA.
Now on the website of AvMAP under the heading of the Ultra EFIS a photograph is shown of an installed EFIS in a YAK52 with callsign N58GC.
Does anybody know the owner of this YAK or does anybody else have a document which shows the approval of this device for use in a YAK52??
Thanks to the net for helping me out on this matter.
Hans Oortman
PH-YAK
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ail Forum -
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
matronics.com
;- List Contribution Web Site -
; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
://www.matronics.com/contribution
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
com
ronics.com/contribution
|
[quote][b]
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Etienne Verhellen
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:25 am Post subject: Re: AvMAP Ultra EFIS ... or ... Dynon D10A. |
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Hello Hans !
Hope you are well ... in The Netherlands ... or in Florida 
A little while ago in August you sent me an e-mail
regarding installation of an EFIS on your European registered Yak-52 PH-YAK.
Sorry I did not reply straight away ... Have been very busy lately,
older daughter starting University in The Netherlands (TU Delft),
father passed away on Friday 5 September, BA flying keeping me away from home ...
just arrived in SΓ£o Paulo after a 11 hours and 13 minutes flight ...
Cannot find your message in Mailbox so posting on the Yak-List.
Our American friends cannot help you on this one because like George and Dennis mentioned,
they are lucky in the US of A, Yaks are EXPERIMENTAL
and installation of new equipment or modifications are no big deal
with the pragmatic approach adopted by the FAA.
But all is not lost because installation of EFIS is approved by the UK CAA.
And it has been for a while.
I really wonder on what basis the Dutch CAA would ban you to install
an EFIS in your Yak-52.
I would also find this quite ironic because for years they were happy to let Yaks fly
in The Netherlands with illegal Certificate of Airworthiness ...
(Just a quick reminder : Yaks cannot get C. of A. because they are Annex II aircraft
and that's why the UK CAA has always been issuing Permit to Fly to them
and why they are EXPERIMENTAL in the USA ...)
The Dutch CAA (like all other CAA in continental Europe) had absolutely no control
on what was going on regarding prescriptions from the manufacturers (YDB) regarding Life Items,
Airframe Life extensions, propeller overhaul. Engine TBO, ...
Different European CAAs have different ideas ...
For instance the French CAA is quite happy with installing fuel bladders ...
'Plug conversion' is EASA approved
http://www.yak-52.com/downloads/ac12419.pdf
The Belgian CAA has absolutely no clue about dealing with Yaks ...
Hopefully UK registered Yaks will soon be administrated by the LAA.
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk
But to answer your specific issue of installing equipments in Yaks, Hans,
your best port of call is probably the UK CAA itself.
Or contacting people dealing with Yaks in the UK, Richard of course, Yak UK
(they installed a DYNON EFIS - D10A in our Yak-52, see photo attached),
http://www.aerobuzz.fr/IMG/jpg/image-17.jpg
Horizon Aircraft Services in St Athan (EGDX), Wales :
http://www.horizonaircraft.co.uk/maintenance.html
https://www.flickr.com/photos/62441905(at)N03/14331355930/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/62441905(at)N03/14494914066/
my friend Jez Hopkinson from the YAKOVLEVS formation aerobatic display team.
He has installed EFIS (and Garmin GNS 530) in all his Yak-50 / Yak-52.
http://www.yakovlevs.com/team-yakovlevs/our-aircraft/
http://www.yakovlevs.com/wp-content/gallery/aircraft/img_0332.jpg
http://www.yakovlevs.com/wp-content/gallery/aircraft/cockpit.jpg
...
Anyway having said all that, installation of an EFIS is a good idea if you do a little be of travelling with your flying machine.
I decided to install the Dynon D10A a few years ago after flying
for 45 minutes in clouds coming back from the South of France
(a 4 hour 15 minutes flight) with my wife and our little dog in the back seat ...
I had to fly with a constant 5 degree of bank on the Russian Attitude Indicator
to stop the compass indicator from slowly spinning, trying to maintain a constant heading to get us home.
Since then I had the opportunity to use the Dynon Artificial Horizon quite a few times going places for Airshows
or coming back to base in less than ideal weather condition.
Quite a few missions I would not have been able to complete without it.
So highly recommended. I would not trust the Russian horizon installed in 99.9 % of Yaks.
VoilΓ Hans, hope you will have an EFIS installed in your Yak soon.
Off with the Crew to the nearest Churrascaria on Paulista for some meat
and a couple of glasses of red wine  Cheers, Etienne.
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_________________
Yak-50 Display Pilot - Airshows - Π―ΠΊΠΎΠ²Π»Π΅Π² Π―ΠΊ-50
Yak-52 training anywhere - FI(A) Aerobatic Instructor - Specialised Yak-52.
https://www.yakoteam.com/
https://www.yakovlevs.com/the-team/pilots-and-crew/ |
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Etienne Verhellen
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:19 pm Post subject: Boeing 747 EFIS instead of Yak-52 Dynon D10A ... Oops |
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Oops ... 
# Have sent photo of 747 EFIS ... Instead of Yak-52 !
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_299.jpg
...
# Ground Speed of 612 knots with a 122 it's Tail Wind
would be interesting in a Yak-52 ...
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_299.jpg
Photo was taken during night flight across the Pond, from JFK
on our way to LHR on course to 30 degrees West (Mid-Atlantic)
FL 360 / M.84 at 02.56 in the morning ...
# Anyway find photo of Dynon EFIS D10A installed in our Yak
Attached below.
Cheers, Etienne.
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Etienne Verhellen
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium
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pa3arw(at)ziggo.nl
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:35 pm Post subject: AvMAP Ultra EFIS |
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Thanks Etienne for the info. I am just going to build it is and see what happens.
Can you also send me the two previous emails please. My macbook just crashed and I lost the emails because they were not in the backup of course.
Thanks!
Hans
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
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Viperdoc
Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:45 pm Post subject: AvMAP Ultra EFIS |
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Etienne,
Are you using the RMU gyro or the internal gyro (oscillometers) in you D10. I have one in my 50 and love it. Have not put it in the 52 yet.
Thanks,
Doc
Sent from my iPad
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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:53 pm Post subject: AvMAP Ultra EFIS |
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Etienne, your information about the French authorities is inaccurate.
They are not at all "quite happy" with fuel bladders, it is considered
being a major modification.
But they are willing to consider it as a possibility because the French
inspection understood that Dennis' bladders are a good replacement.
Fuel bladders won't crack when flying serious aerobatics.
You are very familiar with that problem.
So they allowed me to continue with the bladders.
The French authorities are still making a detailed inventory of all the
Yaks in France.
The French inspectors are very knowledgeable AND they are open for
pertinent arguments, fortunately!
Sorry to hear about your father, bad news!
BR,
Jan
On 16/09/14 21:25, "Etienne Verhellen" <janie(at)yak52.fr> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hello Hans !
Hope you are well ... in The Netherlands ... or in Florida
A little while ago in August you sent me an e-mail
regarding installation of an EFIS on your European registered Yak-52
PH-YAK.
Sorry I did not reply straight away ... Have been very busy lately,
older daughter starting University in The Netherlands (TU Delft),
father passed away on Friday 5 September, BA flying keeping me away from
home ...
just arrived in SΓ£o Paulo after a 11 hours and 13 minutes flight ...
Cannot find your message in Mailbox so posting on the Yak-List.
Our American friends cannot help you on this one because like George and
Dennis mentioned,
they are lucky in the US of A, Yaks are EXPERIMENTAL
and installation of new equipment or modifications are no big deal
with the pragmatic approach adopted by the FAA.
But all is not lost because installation of EFIS is approved by the UK
CAA.
And it has been for a while.
I really wonder on what basis the Dutch CAA would ban you to install
an EFIS in your Yak-52.
I would also find this quite ironic because for years they were happy to
let Yaks fly
in The Netherlands with illegal Certificate of Airworthiness ...
(Just a quick reminder : Yaks cannot get C. of A. because they are Annex
II aircraft
and that's why the UK CAA has always been issuing Permit to Fly to them
and why they are EXPERIMENTAL in the USA ...)
The Dutch CAA (like all other CAA in continental Europe) had absolutely
no control
on what was going on regarding prescriptions from the manufacturers
(YDB) regarding Life Items,
Airframe Life extensions, propeller overhaul. Engine TBO, ...
Different European CAAs have different ideas ...
For instance the French CAA is quite happy with installing fuel bladders
...
'Plug conversion' is EASA approved
http://www.yak-52.com/downloads/ac12419.pdf
The Belgian CAA has absolutely no clue about dealing with Yaks ...
Hopefully UK registered Yaks will soon be administrated by the LAA.
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk
But to answer your specific issue of installing equipments in Yaks, Hans,
your best port of call is probably the UK CAA itself.
Or contacting people dealing with Yaks in the UK, Richard of course, Yak
UK
(they installed a DYNON EFIS - D10A in our Yak-52, see photo attached),
http://www.aerobuzz.fr/IMG/jpg/image-17.jpg
Horizon Aircraft Services in St Athan (EGDX), Wales :
http://www.horizonaircraft.co.uk/maintenance.html
https://www.flickr.com/photos/62441905(at)N03/14331355930/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/62441905(at)N03/14494914066/
my friend Jez Hopkinson from the YAKOVLEVS formation aerobatic display
team.
He has installed EFIS (and Garmin GNS 530) in all his Yak-50 / Yak-52.
http://www.yakovlevs.com/team-yakovlevs/our-aircraft/
http://www.yakovlevs.com/wp-content/gallery/aircraft/img_0332.jpg
http://www.yakovlevs.com/wp-content/gallery/aircraft/cockpit.jpg
...
Anyway having said all that, installation of an EFIS is a good idea if
you do a little be of travelling with your flying machine.
I decided to install the Dynon D10A a few years ago after flying
for 45 minutes in clouds coming back from the South of France
(a 4 hour 15 minutes flight) with my wife and our little dog in the back
seat ...
I had to fly with a constant 5 degree of bank on the Russian Attitude
Indicator
to stop the compass indicator from slowly spinning, trying to maintain a
constant heading to get us home.
Since then I had the opportunity to use the Dynon Artificial Horizon
quite a few times going places for Airshows
or coming back to base in less than ideal weather condition.
Quite a few missions I would not have been able to complete without it.
So highly recommended. I would not trust the Russian horizon installed in
99.9 % of Yaks.
VoilΓ Hans, hope you will have an EFIS installed in your Yak soon.
Off with the Crew to the nearest Churrascaria on Paulista for some meat
and a couple of glasses of red wine Cheers, Etienne.
--------
http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/240525/g-cbss-private-yakovlev-yak-
52/
http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/215762/g-cbss-private-yakovlev-yak-
52/
http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/403690/g-cbss-private-yakovlev-yak-
52/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430627#430627
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_299.jpg
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Etienne Verhellen
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:03 am Post subject: Re: AvMAP Ultra EFIS |
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Roger that Jan. Take care buddy.
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Etienne Verhellen
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:19 am Post subject: Re: AvMAP Ultra EFIS |
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Hi Doc,
using the RMU gyro for the DYNON EFIS -D10A.
And an extra pitot tube. Static from the main.
KR, Etienne.
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Viperdoc
Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A
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| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:43 pm Post subject: AvMAP Ultra EFIS |
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Copy Etienne. I'm using a splitter off the original Pitot.
Do
Sent from my iPad
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Viperdoc |
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