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malins888(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:51 am Post subject: M3X Roll Problems

Test flying my Mark 3X after initial flutter problems found that flaperons were impossible to move in flight and all roll control was by secondary effect of rudder. Balance rods were fitted to balance tubes, but otherwise they appear normal on ground.



Anyone had any similar issues?



  [quote][b]

malins888(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:16 am Post subject: M3X Roll Problems

Further to this, I figure I've 'over-balanced' the ailerons as Kolb did not include the anti-flutter kit with mine and it only came to my attention through this forum. Maybe someone could send me pics of their balance rod installation as I'm thinking mine must extend too far forward of the hinge point.



On 20 October 2014 22:51, Tony Malins <malins888(at)gmail.com (malins888(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Test flying my Mark 3X after initial flutter problems found that flaperons were impossible to move in flight and all roll control was by secondary effect of rudder. Balance rods were fitted to balance tubes, but otherwise they appear normal on ground.



Anyone had any similar issues?



   	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

frank goodnight

Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 126

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:52 am Post subject: M3X Roll Problems

Hi Tony,

Don't know about the xtra , but on my 

MK3 the twin sticks were about 1&1/2

In.too long and when pushed forward and to one side or the other,

The off side stick would hang up under

the tube that runs from the panel and

Back overhead that the windscreen

Is mounted on. Causing the Ailerons

to lock up. Hard to find the problem

Because of my panic when aileron

Control is lost. And my reluctance

To voluntary enter that condition.

For me a simple cure--I cut 1&1/2

Inches off the sticks.

Hope your problem is as easily cured.

Good luck

Frank



Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:16 AM, Tony Malins <malins888(at)gmail.com> wrote:



[quote] Further to this, I figure I've 'over-balanced' the ailerons as Kolb did not include the anti-flutter kit with mine and it only came to my attention through this forum. Maybe someone could send me pics of their balance rod installation as I'm thinking mine must extend too far forward of the hinge point

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:22 am Post subject: M3X Roll Problems

Tony M/Kolbers:

 

The aileron counter balance rods are just that.Â  They should extend far enough forward to balance the ailerons.

 

Here is how I balanced my ailerons:

 

-Disconnected the aileron push/pull tube at the aileron horn.

 

-Adjusted the aileron counter balance rod fore and aft until it balanced the aileron.

 

-Replaced the aileron push/pull tube at the aileron horn.

 

Works for me.Â  No aileron flutter after installation of aileron counter balance weights.

 

john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

 

 

 



 

Further to this, I figure I've 'over-balanced' the ailerons as Kolb did not include the anti-flutter kit with mine and it only came to my attention through this forum. Maybe someone could send me pics of their balance rod installation as I'm thinking mine must extend too far forward of the hinge point.



 

On 20 October 2014 22:51, Tony Malins <malins888(at)gmail.com (malins888(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Test flying my Mark 3X after initial flutter problems found that flaperons were impossible to move in flight and all roll control was by secondary effect of rudder. Balance rods were fitted to balance tubes, but otherwise they appear normal on ground.



Anyone had any similar issues?

[quote]    [b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

colin.scott.hudson(at)gma
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:23 am Post subject: M3X Roll Problems

Tony you didn't state if you had dual controls or not.  I changed from single control to duals in my X-tra and had the same problem.  Moved easy on the ground but not in flight.  Found too much play in the controls and a leverage problem with the duals.  Went back to single control and flys like a dream again.

Scott Hudson

N424AL

A/P



Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 20, 2014, at 7:51 AM, Tony Malins <malins888(at)gmail.com (malins888(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Test flying my Mark 3X after initial flutter problems found that flaperons were impossible to move in flight and all roll control was by secondary effect of rudder. Balance rods were fitted to balance tubes, but otherwise they appear normal on ground.



Anyone had any similar issues?



   	  Quote: 	
		  



D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

//forums.matronics.com

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



	


[b]

malins888(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:32 pm Post subject: M3X Roll Problems

Thanks Frank. I suspect that is the problem.



On 20 October 2014 23:52, Frank <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote:

[quote]Hi Tony,

Don't know about the xtra , but on myÂ 

MK3 the twin sticks were about 1&1/2

In.too long and when pushed forward and to one side or the other,

The off side stick would hang up under

the tube that runs from the panel and

Back overhead that the windscreen

Is mounted on. Causing the Ailerons

to lock up. Hard to find the problem

Because of my panic when aileron

Control is lost. And my reluctance

To voluntary enter that condition.

For me a simple cure--I cut 1&1/2

Inches off the sticks.

Hope your problem is as easily cured.

Good luck

Frank



Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:16 AM, Tony Malins <malins888(at)gmail.com (malins888(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Further to this, I figure I've 'over-balanced' the ailerons as Kolb did not include the anti-flutter kit with mine and it only came to my attention through this forum. Maybe someone could send me pics of their balance rod installation as I'm thinking mine must extend too far forward of the hinge point.



On 20 October 2014 22:51, Tony Malins <malins888(at)gmail.com (malins888(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Test flying my Mark 3X after initial flutter problems found that flaperons were impossible to move in flight and all roll control was by secondary effect of rudder. Balance rods were fitted to balance tubes, but otherwise they appear normal on ground.



Anyone had any similar issues?



   	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




==========

://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

==========

cs.com

==========

matronics.com/contribution

==========



	
   

	
  	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

malins888(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:34 pm Post subject: M3X Roll Problems

Good thought Colin, I have dual controls..will check.



On 21 October 2014 01:06, Colin Hudson <colin.scott.hudson(at)gmail.com (colin.scott.hudson(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Tony you didn't state if you had dual controls or not.Â  I changed from single control to duals in my X-tra and had the same problem.Â  Moved easy on the ground but not in flight.Â  Found too much play in the controls and a leverage problem with the duals.Â  Went back to single control and flys like a dream again.

Scott Hudson

N424AL

A/P



Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 20, 2014, at 7:51 AM, Tony Malins <malins888(at)gmail.com (malins888(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Test flying my Mark 3X after initial flutter problems found that flaperons were impossible to move in flight and all roll control was by secondary effect of rudder. Balance rods were fitted to balance tubes, but otherwise they appear normal on ground.



Anyone had any similar issues?



   	  Quote: 	
		  



D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

//forums.matronics.com

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



	


	
  	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

pipercolt

Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 46
Location: Randolph New York

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: M3X Roll Problems

Do all mark 3 Kolbs require balance tubes?

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:46 pm Post subject: M3X Roll Problems

Highly recommended.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama



 






Do all mark 3 Kolbs require balance tubes?

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

pipercolt

Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 46
Location: Randolph New York

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: M3X Roll Problems

I have rounded wingtips. Is there another option?

james.vanlaak(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:03 pm Post subject: M3X Roll Problems

I just sold my Mark 3X with flaperons about 6 months ago and while the airplane has some very nice features, the roll control is not one of them.Â  They are extremely heavy and quite ineffective.Â  But that is typical of simple flaperons.

Here are a few points to consider:

The balances you are talking about are mass balances to control flutter.Â  They have no measurable impact on control feel.Â  Aerodynamic balances lighten the control forces and there are some pictures on the web of "spade" types on the M3X, I am not sure how well they have been tested.Â  Spades work fine on sturdy ailerons like on aerobatic airplanes, but I am not sure the Kolb is meant for large control deflections.Â  As John H likes to say, be careful making big changes to Homer's design.

Note that the tube that is the forward spar of the flaperon looks like a torque tube at first but when you look at where the hinge points are you can see that it is actually in bending.Â  To prove this you can move the flaperon to full travel using the mass balance and then gently twist in the same direction.Â  You will see the tube bend with the stick at its stops.Â  Like others I made a small change to get more mechanical advantage and lower the force, but I gave up aileron travel in the process.Â  When you are flying the airplane you can move the linkage with enough force but the flaperon barely moves at all.Â  This is because the tube is bending and absorbing most of the motion.

As an aerospace designer, I can tell you that flaperons are compromises.Â  They move together to lower stall speed, which mine did some, and differentially to roll the plane, which mine did poorly for the reasons mentioned above.Â  Ailerons are very different.Â  They have less area which makes them easier to move and it is way out on the wing where it produces relatively more roll control for a given deflection.

If I were building a Kolb I would go with traditional ailerons.

Jim



On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 6:33 PM, Tony Malins <malins888(at)gmail.com (malins888(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Good thought Colin, I have dual controls..will check.



On 21 October 2014 01:06, Colin Hudson <colin.scott.hudson(at)gmail.com (colin.scott.hudson(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Tony you didn't state if you had dual controls or not.Â  I changed from single control to duals in my X-tra and had the same problem.Â  Moved easy on the ground but not in flight.Â  Found too much play in the controls and a leverage problem with the duals.Â  Went back to single control and flys like a dream again.

Scott Hudson

N424AL

A/P



Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 20, 2014, at 7:51 AM, Tony Malins <malins888(at)gmail.com (malins888(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Test flying my Mark 3X after initial flutter problems found that flaperons were impossible to move in flight and all roll control was by secondary effect of rudder. Balance rods were fitted to balance tubes, but otherwise they appear normal on ground.



Anyone had any similar issues?



   	  Quote: 	
		  



D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

//forums.matronics.com

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



	


	
  	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


   	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




[b]

malins888(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:19 pm Post subject: M3X Roll Problems

Thanks James, a lot of good info to digest, but I'll work on this.



On 21 October 2014 11:03,  <james.vanlaak(at)gmail.com (james.vanlaak(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]I just sold my Mark 3X with flaperons about 6 months ago and while the airplane has some very nice features, the roll control is not one of them.Â  They are extremely heavy and quite ineffective.Â  But that is typical of simple flaperons.

Here are a few points to consider:

The balances you are talking about are mass balances to control flutter.Â  They have no measurable impact on control feel.Â  Aerodynamic balances lighten the control forces and there are some pictures on the web of "spade" types on the M3X, I am not sure how well they have been tested.Â  Spades work fine on sturdy ailerons like on aerobatic airplanes, but I am not sure the Kolb is meant for large control deflections.Â  As John H likes to say, be careful making big changes to Homer's design.

Note that the tube that is the forward spar of the flaperon looks like a torque tube at first but when you look at where the hinge points are you can see that it is actually in bending.Â  To prove this you can move the flaperon to full travel using the mass balance and then gently twist in the same direction.Â  You will see the tube bend with the stick at its stops.Â  Like others I made a small change to get more mechanical advantage and lower the force, but I gave up aileron travel in the process.Â  When you are flying the airplane you can move the linkage with enough force but the flaperon barely moves at all.Â  This is because the tube is bending and absorbing most of the motion.

As an aerospace designer, I can tell you that flaperons are compromises.Â  They move together to lower stall speed, which mine did some, and differentially to roll the plane, which mine did poorly for the reasons mentioned above.Â  Ailerons are very different.Â  They have less area which makes them easier to move and it is way out on the wing where it produces relatively more roll control for a given deflection.

If I were building a Kolb I would go with traditional ailerons.

Jim



On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 6:33 PM, Tony Malins <malins888(at)gmail.com (malins888(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Good thought Colin, I have dual controls..will check.



On 21 October 2014 01:06, Colin Hudson <colin.scott.hudson(at)gmail.com (colin.scott.hudson(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Tony you didn't state if you had dual controls or not.Â  I changed from single control to duals in my X-tra and had the same problem.Â  Moved easy on the ground but not in flight.Â  Found too much play in the controls and a leverage problem with the duals.Â  Went back to single control and flys like a dream again.

Scott Hudson

N424AL

A/P



Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 20, 2014, at 7:51 AM, Tony Malins <malins888(at)gmail.com (malins888(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Test flying my Mark 3X after initial flutter problems found that flaperons were impossible to move in flight and all roll control was by secondary effect of rudder. Balance rods were fitted to balance tubes, but otherwise they appear normal on ground.



Anyone had any similar issues?



   	  Quote: 	
		  



D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

//forums.matronics.com

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



	


	
  	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


   	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	








get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:40 pm Post subject: M3X Roll Problems

Fly slower



Dennis "Skid" Rowe

Mk3, Rotax 670, 

Leechburg, PA



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:39 PM, "pipercolt" <bob.pipercolt(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 I have rounded wingtips.  Is there another option?

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432101#432101

Jason Omelchuck

Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:21 am Post subject: Re: M3X Roll Problems

When I first flew my MKIII I was disappointed in how heavy it was in roll.  After about 50 or so hours in it, I no longer noticed.  I have since sold the MKIII but I do have a set of steel aileron spade brackets that I asked TNK aircraft to make me.  They have a flat plate on one end which you would attach a piece of aluminum as your spade and the other end is a half pipe to rivet to the aileron.  The section in between is airfoil shaped.  I would sell them for $30 plus shipping.



Jason

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:56 am Post subject: M3X Roll Problems

How did the spades work on your MKIII?



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

 

When I first flew my MKIII I was disappointed in how heavy it was in roll.

After about 50 or so hours in it, I no longer noticed.  I have since sold

the MKIII but I do have a set of steel aileron spade brackets that I asked

TNK aircraft to make me.  They have a flat plate on one end which you would

attach a piece of aluminum as your spade and the other end is a half pipe to

rivet to the aileron.  The section in between is airfoil shaped.  I would

sell them for $30 plus shipping.



Jason

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

pipercolt

Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 46
Location: Randolph New York

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: M3X Roll Problems

Hey Jason



I would like to talk to you about the spades. If you don't mind please call me at 765-346-2622



Thanks

Bob

malins888(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:56 am Post subject: M3X Roll Problems

Thanks Jason. I'll talk further to Travis about it.



Cheers

Tony





On 22 October 2014 04:55, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 

 How did the spades work on your MKIII?

 

 john h

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

 

 

 

 When I first flew my MKIII I was disappointed in how heavy it was in roll.

 After about 50 or so hours in it, I no longer noticed.Â  I have since sold

 the MKIII but I do have a set of steel aileron spade brackets that I asked

 TNK aircraft to make me.Â  They have a flat plate on one end which you would

 attach a piece of aluminum as your spade and the other end is a half pipe to

 rivet to the aileron.Â  The section in between is airfoil shaped.Â  I would

 sell them for $30 plus shipping.

 

 Jason

 

 

 

 

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Jason Omelchuck

Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:41 am Post subject: Re: M3X Roll Problems

I don't know how they worked, I never installed them.  I have seen them on a MKIII but I never tried them.



 	  John Hauck wrote: 	
		  How did the spades work on your MKIII?



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

 

When I first flew my MKIII I was disappointed in how heavy it was in roll.

After about 50 or so hours in it, I no longer noticed.  I have since sold

the MKIII but I do have a set of steel aileron spade brackets that I asked

TNK aircraft to make me.  They have a flat plate on one end which you would

attach a piece of aluminum as your spade and the other end is a half pipe to

rivet to the aileron.  The section in between is airfoil shaped.  I would

sell them for $30 plus shipping.



Jason

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:39 am Post subject: M3X Roll Problems

did Kolb send instructions as to what angle the spade should be mounted?



boyd young



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>


	


I don't know how they worked, I never installed them.  I have seen them on a 

MKIII

but I never tried them.

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Jason Omelchuck

Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:29 am Post subject: Re: M3X Roll Problems

Typically you would mount them with he spade parallel to the airflow in level flight. When you deflect the surface you also expose the surface of the spade to the airflow and it helps move the surface.  Size of the spade is what would be the unknown.  Just how much area do you need to get the results you want without over stressing the aileron system or introducing roll rates that the wing is not designed to handle.



Jason

 	  byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c wrote: 	
		  did Kolb send instructions as to what angle the spade should be mounted?



boyd young



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>



	


I don't know how they worked, I never installed them.  I have seen them on a 

MKIII

but I never tried them.

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