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Mark K
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
Posts: 32
Location: Great Bend, PA
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 Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:03 pm Post subject: Legal Twinstar |
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Looking for some ideas. I’ll try to keep this short but give as much detail as I can. I bought a Twinstar MK II as a rebuild project. Would like to be able to register it and be all legal when the build is complete. Here is the situation. Purchased from the second owner who started the rebuild but could not complete. First owner built from kit and flew. I was told that it had been registered by first owner but I do not have any proof of this. Second owner did not have any placard or N-number or paperwork. If anyone has any ideas of how to best go about being able to register later I sure would like to hear them. I am contemplating contacting the local DAR for input but am a bit hesitant yet. Thanks in advance.
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Mark
Twinstar MKII
Great Bend, PA |
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stuart(at)harnerfarm.net
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:11 pm Post subject: Legal Twinstar |
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You should be able to search the FAA database online using either the builder's name or the serial number of the aircraft.
It has been quite some time since I have looked at the online database, but in the past I was able to find this kind of information.
If you are an AOPA member, they may be able to help, I know they do title research work. Possibly even the EAA.
Best of luck,
Stuart
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:31 am Post subject: Legal Twinstar |
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Since the FAA has put a 3 year lifetime on registrations there is little likelihood that an old registration is still valid. You can try and good luck, but I doubt that you will find anything.
Much will depend on what you call a rebuild and how much work you are doing. Did you get any of the old build records, pictures, or other documentation with the aircraft? Are you taking pictures and documenting all the work you are doing? Are you having an EAA advisor check your work as you go? All of these things could be combined to create a package to present to the FAA/DAR as validation that YOU are the builder and allow you to register it as your E-AB aircraft.Â
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Stuart Harner <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net (stuart(at)harnerfarm.net)> wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Stuart Harner" <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net (stuart(at)harnerfarm.net)>
You should be able to search the FAA database online using either the builder's name or the serial number of the aircraft.
It has been quite some time since I have looked at the online database, but in the past I was able to find this kind of information.
If you are an AOPA member, they may be able to help, I know they do title research work. Possibly even the EAA.
Best of luck,
Stuart
--
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The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:01 am Post subject: Legal Twinstar |
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While the registration (if it ever existed) has likely expired, with proof of ownership you could re-register & get a new N number. The bigger issue is whether there was ever an airworthiness certificate. If one was never issued, you *might* be able to convince a DAR or a FSDO rep that this is a 1st build, by you. To do that, you'd need a bill of sale trail, back to the original sale of the kit, unless you can convince the DAR you built everything yourself (he'd probably want to see a stack of receipts for tubing, steel, etc for the whole plane).
If there was ever an A/W cert, the FAA has said that there can never be another issued (except for things like updating operating limitations, etc).
An 'out' for all of the above might well be the Experimental Exhibition category. Even Certified planes can be moved to Exhibition category, for a variety of reasons. The biggest 'catch 22' of Exhibition used to be a 300 nm radius from the home airport for training/currency flights, but according to one of my neighbors who works for the local FSDO, that limitation has been removed.
FWIW,
Charlie
On 10/22/2014 11:31 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
[quote] Since the FAA has put a 3 year lifetime on registrations there is little likelihood that an old registration is still valid. You can try and good luck, but I doubt that you will find anything.
Much will depend on what you call a rebuild and how much work you are doing. Did you get any of the old build records, pictures, or other documentation with the aircraft? Are you taking pictures and documenting all the work you are doing? Are you having an EAA advisor check your work as you go? All of these things could be combined to create a package to present to the FAA/DAR as validation that YOU are the builder and allow you to register it as your E-AB aircraft.Â
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Stuart Harner <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net (stuart(at)harnerfarm.net)> wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Stuart Harner" <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net (stuart(at)harnerfarm.net)>
You should be able to search the FAA database online using either the builder's name or the serial number of the aircraft.
It has been quite some time since I have looked at the online database, but in the past I was able to find this kind of information.
If you are an AOPA member, they may be able to help, I know they do title research work. Possibly even the EAA.
Best of luck,
Stuart
--
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russk50(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:40 am Post subject: Legal Twinstar |
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I've been told that "Exhibition category" used to, at least, restrict flying to trips only to & from airshows. Hope this isn't still in effect, but worth checkingRuss K
On Oct 22, 2014, at 1:02 PM, Charlie England wrote:
[quote] While the registration (if it ever existed) has likely expired, with proof of ownership you could re-register & get a new N number. The bigger issue is whether there was ever an airworthiness certificate. If one was never issued, you *might* be able to convince a DAR or a FSDO rep that this is a 1st build, by you. To do that, you'd need a bill of sale trail, back to the original sale of the kit, unless you can convince the DAR you built everything yourself (he'd probably want to see a stack of receipts for tubing, steel, etc for the whole plane).
If there was ever an A/W cert, the FAA has said that there can never be another issued (except for things like updating operating limitations, etc).
An 'out' for all of the above might well be the Experimental Exhibition category. Even Certified planes can be moved to Exhibition category, for a variety of reasons. The biggest 'catch 22' of Exhibition used to be a 300 nm radius from the home airport for training/currency flights, but according to one of my neighbors who works for the local FSDO, that limitation has been removed.
FWIW,
Charlie
On 10/22/2014 11:31 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
[quote] Since the FAA has put a 3 year lifetime on registrations there is little likelihood that an old registration is still valid. You can try and good luck, but I doubt that you will find anything.
Much will depend on what you call a rebuild and how much work you are doing. Did you get any of the old build records, pictures, or other documentation with the aircraft? Are you taking pictures and documenting all the work you are doing? Are you having an EAA advisor check your work as you go? All of these things could be combined to create a package to present to the FAA/DAR as validation that YOU are the builder and allow you to register it as your E-AB aircraft.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Stuart Harner <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net (stuart(at)harnerfarm.net)> wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Stuart Harner" <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net (stuart(at)harnerfarm.net)>
You should be able to search the FAA database online using either the builder's name or the serial number of the aircraft.
It has been quite some time since I have looked at the online database, but in the past I was able to find this kind of information.
If you are an AOPA member, they may be able to help, I know they do title research work. Possibly even the EAA.
Best of luck,
Stuart
--
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:18 am Post subject: Legal Twinstar |
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I can't cite chapter and verse, but I read about the change several months ago, and asked my neighbor who's a FSDO enforcer. According to him, the FAA still requires notification of 'shows' the plane will attend (a paperwork exercise that can be done once at the beginning of each airshow season with a list of all the shows in the country), but there are no longer any restrictions on when/where/how often an exhibition category plane flies. I asked pointed and extensive questions to be sure that we were understanding each other, and he told me what I'm now telling you. (Yes, this is maybe the biggest Unknown Really Big Deal in aviation.  )
I had motive for the questions because I'm considering something with a previously factory cert. airframe that would be much more extreme than re-certifying a 'fat ultralite'.
Charlie
On 10/22/2014 1:39 PM, kinne russ wrote:
[quote]I've been told that "Exhibition category" used to, at least, restrict flying to trips only to & from airshows. Hope this isn't still in effect, but worth checking Russ K
On Oct 22, 2014, at 1:02 PM, Charlie England wrote:
[quote] While the registration (if it ever existed) has likely expired, with proof of ownership you could re-register & get a new N number. The bigger issue is whether there was ever an airworthiness certificate. If one was never issued, you *might* be able to convince a DAR or a FSDO rep that this is a 1st build, by you. To do that, you'd need a bill of sale trail, back to the original sale of the kit, unless you can convince the DAR you built everything yourself (he'd probably want to see a stack of receipts for tubing, steel, etc for the whole plane).
If there was ever an A/W cert, the FAA has said that there can never be another issued (except for things like updating operating limitations, etc).
An 'out' for all of the above might well be the Experimental Exhibition category. Even Certified planes can be moved to Exhibition category, for a variety of reasons. The biggest 'catch 22' of Exhibition used to be a 300 nm radius from the home airport for training/currency flights, but according to one of my neighbors who works for the local FSDO, that limitation has been removed.
FWIW,
Charlie
On 10/22/2014 11:31 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
[quote] Since the FAA has put a 3 year lifetime on registrations there is little likelihood that an old registration is still valid. You can try and good luck, but I doubt that you will find anything.
Much will depend on what you call a rebuild and how much work you are doing. Did you get any of the old build records, pictures, or other documentation with the aircraft? Are you taking pictures and documenting all the work you are doing? Are you having an EAA advisor check your work as you go? All of these things could be combined to create a package to present to the FAA/DAR as validation that YOU are the builder and allow you to register it as your E-AB aircraft.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Stuart Harner <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net (stuart(at)harnerfarm.net)> wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Stuart Harner" <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net (stuart(at)harnerfarm.net)>
You should be able to search the FAA database online using either the builder's name or the serial number of the aircraft.
It has been quite some time since I have looked at the online database, but in the past I was able to find this kind of information.
If you are an AOPA member, they may be able to help, I know they do title research work. Possibly even the EAA.
Best of luck,
Stuart
--
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Mark K
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
Posts: 32
Location: Great Bend, PA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Legal Twinstar |
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Thank you all for your input. The replies were interesting and very informative. I spent an hour on the phone the other day with an EAA representative. My membership has already paid off. He was able to offer more insight into the experimental and experimental exhibition. It really does look like the exhibition just might be my best path forward. It will take some more research into all the steps needed to complete the process.
It would allow me to get my Twinstar registered and the restrictions would fit into the flying I want to do with the plane.
This forum as well as the Kolb Facebook page are great sources of info and Kolb sense.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Mark
Twinstar MKII
Great Bend, PA |
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