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bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
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 Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:25 pm Post subject: EAB IFR Certification |
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10/27/2014
Hello David Lamb, You wrote that your EAB (Experimental Amateur Built) airplane (an RV 7A) “....has recently been certified IFR”.
1) Can you please tell me (and the list) what organization did this certification?
2) What did the certification process consist of?
3) How does the certificate read (exact wording)?
4) What regulations or published documents provided the standards that must be met for this certification?
Thank you,
OC
==================================
Time: 05:22:01 PM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual Alternator Question
From: "RV7ASask" <rv7alamb(at)sasktel.net>
I am operating a Z12 electrical system in my RV7A and have been very pleased, 200+
hours. The aircraft has recently been certified IFR. It has a Dynon Skyview
and a simple switch on the panel to show volts and amps of the alternator selected.
Lights on the panel indicate the status of the two alternators.
David Lamb
[quote][b]
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donjohnston
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 231
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:10 am Post subject: Re: EAB IFR Certification |
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I too am very interested in this as I don't have all TSO equipment and would like to be IFR certified.
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deej(at)deej.net
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Bill Allen
Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 42
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:04 am Post subject: EAB IFR Certification |
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FAR 91.205 tells you what you need. It's not "Certification" - it's having your Operating Limitations re-written to include operations under IMC (and night if you want it)
here's a good link: https://www.google.com/search?rls=aso&client=gmail&q=FAR%2091.205
Bill AllenLongEz160 N99BA FD51
CZ4 G-BYLZ EGBJ
On 28 October 2014 16:10, donjohnston <don(at)velocity-xl.com (don(at)velocity-xl.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "donjohnston" <don(at)velocity-xl.com (don(at)velocity-xl.com)>
I too am very interested in this as I don't have all TSO equipment and would like to be IFR certified.
|
| Quote: |
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432407#432407
===========
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Electric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
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_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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henry(at)pericynthion.org
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:55 am Post subject: EAB IFR Certification |
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Hi Owen,
This convenient website allows one to print all kinds of certificate:
http://www.certificatemagic.com/
Of course, you still need the necessary permit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzEOHNmfa_0
Henry
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 8:24 PM, Owen Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: | 10/27/2014
Hello David Lamb, You wrote that your EAB (Experimental Amateur Built)
airplane (an RV 7A) “....has recently been certified IFR”.
1) Can you please tell me (and the list) what organization did this
certification?
2) What did the certification process consist of?
3) How does the certificate read (exact wording)?
4) What regulations or published documents provided the standards that must
be met for this certification?
Thank you,
OC
==================================
Time: 05:22:01 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Dual Alternator Question
From: "RV7ASask" <rv7alamb(at)sasktel.net>
I am operating a Z12 electrical system in my RV7A and have been very
pleased, 200+
hours. The aircraft has recently been certified IFR. It has a Dynon Skyview
and a simple switch on the panel to show volts and amps of the alternator
selected.
Lights on the panel indicate the status of the two alternators.
David Lamb
|
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RV7ASask
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: EAB IFR Certification |
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Hello Owen,
Yes, perhaps 'certified' is not exactly correct. I have been working with Transport Canada and in the end they removed "VFR ONLY" from my Special Certificate of Airworthiness. The only TSO'd equipment I have are a Garmin SL30, with the nav displayed on the Skyview and a Garmin GTX327 transponder. I have a panel mounted GDU370 GPS. The transponder and the pitot static system had to be 'certified' by an avionics shop. That must be done every 2 years. There is also the requisite iPad with Foreflight for the charts.
I'm sorry I am traveling right now and do not have all the relevant Canadian Air Regulations that are required to be complied with to remove the VFR restriction. I found the TC inspector to be very helpful. He provided me with all the answers as to what was required.
Regards
David Lamb
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bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:34 am Post subject: EAB IFR Certification |
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10/29/2014
Hello David Lamb, Thank you for your very kind and prompt response.
And I apologize – I had assumed that you were discussing a USA built, certified, and operating EAB airplane in your initial posting and I was trying to make a teaching point by asking some questions to which there is no correct answer in the USA. I was not sharp enough to look at the word sasktel in your email address and deduce that you were talking Canadian rules.
I would not presume to make any judgment or teaching points about what is correct or permitted regarding aircraft certification in your fine country.
I wish you the best with your RV 7.
OC
=============================
Time: 08:06:01 PM PST US
Subject: Re: EAB IFR Certification
From: "RV7ASask" <rv7alamb(at)sasktel.net>
Hello Owen,
Yes, perhaps 'certified' is not exactly correct. I have been working with Transport
Canada and in the end they removed "VFR ONLY" from my Special Certificate
of Airworthiness. The only TSO'd equipment I have are a Garmin SL30, with the
nav displayed on the Skyview and a Garmin GTX327 transponder. I have a panel
mounted GDU370 GPS. The transponder and the pitot static system had to be 'certified'
by an avionics shop. That must be done every 2 years. There is also the
requisite iPad with Foreflight for the charts.
I'm sorry I am traveling right now and do not have all the relevant Canadian Air
Regulations that are required to be complied with to remove the VFR restriction.
I found the TC inspector to be very helpful. He provided me with all the
answers as to what was required.
Regards
David Lamb
[quote][b]
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bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:03 am Post subject: EAB IFR Certification |
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10/29/2014
Hello Don Johnson, I apologize.
In order to make a teaching point I was apparently being too subtle (smart ass?) with my questioning approach to the original poster by asking some questions to which there is no correct answer regarding IFR certification of USA EAB aircraft.
There is no such thing as IFR certification per se for an EAB aircraft in the USA. The attached document will shed some light on this subject.
OC
PS: I subsequently learned that the original poster was writing about Canadian rules which is a significantly different ball game.
==============================================
Time: 08:12:31 AM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: EAB IFR Certification
From: "donjohnston" <don(at)velocity-xl.com>
I too am very interested in this as I don't have all TSO equipment and would like
to be IFR certified.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432407#432407
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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| Description: |
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Download |
| Filename: |
ABEA_Minimum_Inst_Requirements_11.doc |
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37.5 KB |
| Downloaded: |
450 Time(s) |
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bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:24 am Post subject: EAB IFR Certification |
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10/29/2014
Hello Bill Allen, You wrote: “It's not "Certification" - it's having
your Operating Limitations re-written to include operations under IMC (and
night if you want it)”
First, let me make it clear that I am addressing USA EAB certification and operating requirements only and not Canada or any other country.
One should not have to have his Operating Limitations re-written in order to operate his EAB under IFR or at night. If the Operating Limitations are of reasonably recent vintage they should already state:
“After completion of Phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only.”
The interpretation given this statement is that if the aircraft is “appropriately equipped in accordance with 91.205” then the “VFR, day only” limitation no longer applies and the aircraft can be flown at night or under IFR in IMC. You can see that there is no specific “inclusion” for “operations under IMC (and
night if you want it)” in the Operating Limitations as written.
See the attached document for further explanation.
OC
==============================
Time: 11:04:28 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Re: EAB IFR Certification
From: Bill Allen <billallensworld(at)gmail.com>
FAR 91.205 tells you what you need. It's not "Certification" - it's having
your Operating Limitations re-written to include operations under IMC (and
night if you want it)
here's a good link:
https://www.google.com/search?rls=aso&client=gmail&q=FAR%2091.205
Bill Allen
LongEz160 N99BA FD51
CZ4 G-BYLZ EGBJ
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
| Description: |
|
Download |
| Filename: |
ABEA_Minimum_Inst_Requirements_11.doc |
| Filesize: |
37.5 KB |
| Downloaded: |
528 Time(s) |
|
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| Back to top |
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bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:18 am Post subject: EAB IFR Certification |
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10/29/2014
Hello Don, You wrote:
1) “There's a lot of ignorance, mis-information and just downright stupidity out there.”
Amen to that.
2) “I spoke to my avionics guy and he said that any non-TSO'd equipment would require separate certification to fly IFR.”
I’ll be kind and put that requirement initially into the “mis-information” category. If he insists, then it may have to be placed over into the “downright stupidity” category.
3) “But he didn't know how to obtain that certification.”
That would be because there is no such requirement and no way to do so.
4) “I ran across this article from the EAA.....”
I have no significant issue with the article. I wish that they had used the word “allowed” instead of “approved” in the following sentence: “In order for the aircraft to be approved for IFR operations,....” because the word “approved” connotes some sort of specific positive action or approval document to be provided by the FAA and that is not what will happen.**
5) “A friend that used Aerotronics for his panel build was told him he needed a VOR head to fly IFR even though he's got a GRT display that shows the CDI.”
My reaction when someone “tells” me thus and so is to ask for the specific regulation or requirement that makes it so. It is astounding, as you alluded to, at the amount of hearsay, rumor, and gossip that is available on this subject. If what I am told can not be substantiated by documentation then it falls into one of those three categories.
6) “I spoke with the factory of my kit and they said that because it's such a gray area that they only install certified avionics (Garmin G3X seems to be the one they use).”
Fine with me. They are certainly within their right to install what they wish into the instrument panel and airplane that they are providing to a kit purchasing customer. I am not sure what they mean by “certified avionics” though. Do they mean TSO’d avionics? If so I am further puzzled (amused?) by the fact that the Garmin G3X is not TSO’d. See here:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/aviation/sport-aviation/g3x-/prod63892.html
7) “I'm going to be pretty annoyed if when I'm done building I get a "VFR only" sticker.”
I don’t see that happening. Instead you should get this statement in your Operating Limitations: ““After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with § 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only.” and the subsequent compliance is up to you.**
 “So whenever I run across anything that has to do with IFR in an experimental aircraft, I try and get as much information as I can.”
Good for you, I wish more of the EAB aircraft builders and pilots had that approach to this subject.
9) “BTW, where are you located and what are you building/flying?”
I am located in Fairfax, VA and I have been flying my KIS TR-1 out of KHEF (Manassas Regional Airport) since 2003 after six and one half years of building. I am an ancient person and former military pilot with more hours, aircraft types, education, and ratings than my poor old body can support.
OC
**PS: For the most part the FARs are written in the “forbidding mode”. They tell you what you can not do (legally) with words such as “ no person may.... unless”. So if something is not forbidden by the regulations then it should be permitted. Note that FAR Section 91.13 specifically forbids “careless and reckless” (stupid?) operations.
=========================================
From: Don Johnston (don(at)velocity-xl.com)
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 8:53 AM
To: Owen Baker (bakerocb(at)cox.net)
Subject: Re: EAB IFR Certification
Owen,
Thanks for the email!
I've got to say that I'm totally baffled by this. There's a lot of ignorance, mis-information and just downright stupidity out there.
I ran across this article from the EAA and figured that I would be okay. It's a little vague but I thought that it was pretty clear.
I spoke to my avionics guy and he said that any non-TSO'd equipment would require separate certification to fly IFR. But he didn't know how to obtain that certification.
A friend that used Aerotronics for his panel build was told him he needed a VOR head to fly IFR even though he's got a GRT display that shows the CDI.
I spoke with the factory of my kit and they said that because it's such a gray area that they only install certified avionics (Garmin G3X seems to be the one they use).
I'm going to be pretty annoyed if when I'm done building I get a "VFR only" sticker.
So whenever I run across anything that has to do with IFR in an experimental aircraft, I try and get as much information as I can.
BTW, where are you located and what are you building/flying?
Thanks,
-Don
[quote][b]
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:28 am Post subject: EAB IFR Certification |
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There are misconceptions about IFR certification in the type
certificated world as well. Individual aircraft are not normally
certified for IFR, only the airframe as part of its initial type
certificate, with same kind of limitation. If supplied with required
equipment, only a static system and altimeter certification are needed.
Just as very few items need Tso approval, primarily the transponder (if
required) and the GPS. Navcoms, and instruments do not need TSO
approval, just approval for use in the airframe via minor alteration,
etc. How quickly we forget that in days of old, the majority of Navcoms,
ADFs etc used in Part 91 aircraft were not TSO approved. Prime example,
King KX-170. You only paid for TSO in the KX-175 if the aircraft was
going to be used in "for hire" flights.
Kelly
On 10/29/2014 5:01 AM, Owen Baker wrote:
| Quote: | 10/29/2014
Hello Don Johnson, I apologize.
In order to make a teaching point I was apparently being too subtle
(smart ass?) with my questioning approach to the original poster by
asking some questions to which there is no correct answer regarding
IFR certification of USA EAB aircraft.
There is no such thing as IFR certification per se for an EAB aircraft
in the USA. The attached document will shed some light on this subject.
OC
==============================================
Time: 08:12:31 AM PST US
Subject: Re: EAB IFR Certification
From: "donjohnston" <don(at)velocity-xl.com>
I too am very interested in this as I don't have all TSO equipment and
would like
to be IFR certified.
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:37 am Post subject: EAB IFR Certification |
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I had Aerotronics build a panel for me, for IFR use. The only TSO items
are the GTN-650, SL30 and the Dynon transponder.
Neither of the nav units have separate VOR heads, and they are not
needed, as the Dynon Skyview displays needles for each nav unit on the
EFIS HSI. Same deal for AFS, and GRT EFIS. Either he talked to someone
new at Aerotronics, or misunderstood what he was told.
Kelly
On 10/29/2014 8:16 AM, Owen Baker wrote:
| Quote: | 1
5) “A friend that used Aerotronics for his panel build was told him he
needed a VOR head to fly IFR even though he's got a GRT display that
shows the CDI.”
My reaction when someone “tells” me thus and so is to ask for the
specific regulation or requirement that makes it so. It is astounding,
as you alluded to, at the amount of hearsay, rumor, and gossip that is
available on this subject. If what I am told can not be substantiated
by documentation then it falls into one of those three categories.
6) “I spoke with the factory of my kit and they said that because it's
such a gray area that they only install certified avionics (Garmin G3X
seems to be the one they use).”
Fine with me. They are certainly within their right to install what
they wish into the instrument panel and airplane that they are
providing to a kit purchasing customer. I am not sure what they mean
by “certified avionics” though. Do they mean TSO’d avionics? If so I
am further puzzled (amused?) by the fact that the Garmin G3X is not
TSO’d. See here:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/aviation/sport-aviation/g3x-/prod63892.html
7) “I'm going to be pretty annoyed if when I'm done building I get a
"VFR only" sticker.”
I don’t see that happening. Instead you should get this statement in
your Operating Limitations: ““After completion of phase I flight
testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument
flight in accordance with § 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated
under VFR, day only.” and the subsequent compliance is up to you.**
|
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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stein(at)steinair.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:53 am Post subject: EAB IFR Certification |
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Spot on comments for the US, but for Canada not so much…as those requirements are wholly different for IFR then ours in the US are. I’m still not sure if folks are specifically discussing US or Canada rules, but I do know that some of it is getting intermingled here – which will only lead to the possibility of additional confusion. Perhaps this should be split into “US rules” and “Canada rules”….because they are quite different.
Cheers,
Stein
Do not archive
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen Baker
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 10:16 AM
To: Don Johnston; aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: EAB IFR Certification
10/29/2014
Hello Don, You wrote:
1) “There's a lot of ignorance, mis-information and just downright stupidity out there.”
Amen to that.
2) “I spoke to my avionics guy and he said that any non-TSO'd equipment would require separate certification to fly IFR.”
I’ll be kind and put that requirement initially into the “mis-information” category. If he insists, then it may have to be placed over into the “downright stupidity” category.
3) “But he didn't know how to obtain that certification.”
That would be because there is no such requirement and no way to do so.
4) “I ran across this article from the EAA.....”
I have no significant issue with the article. I wish that they had used the word “allowed” instead of “approved” in the following sentence: “In order for the aircraft to be approved for IFR operations,....” because the word “approved” connotes some sort of specific positive action or approval document to be provided by the FAA and that is not what will happen.**
5) “A friend that used Aerotronics for his panel build was told him he needed a VOR head to fly IFR even though he's got a GRT display that shows the CDI.”
My reaction when someone “tells” me thus and so is to ask for the specific regulation or requirement that makes it so. It is astounding, as you alluded to, at the amount of hearsay, rumor, and gossip that is available on this subject. If what I am told can not be substantiated by documentation then it falls into one of those three categories.
6) “I spoke with the factory of my kit and they said that because it's such a gray area that they only install certified avionics (Garmin G3X seems to be the one they use).”
Fine with me. They are certainly within their right to install what they wish into the instrument panel and airplane that they are providing to a kit purchasing customer. I am not sure what they mean by “certified avionics” though. Do they mean TSO’d avionics? If so I am further puzzled (amused?) by the fact that the Garmin G3X is not TSO’d. See here:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/aviation/sport-aviation/g3x-/prod63892.html
7) “I'm going to be pretty annoyed if when I'm done building I get a "VFR only" sticker.”
I don’t see that happening. Instead you should get this statement in your Operating Limitations: ““After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with § 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only.” and the subsequent compliance is up to you.**
“So whenever I run across anything that has to do with IFR in an experimental aircraft, I try and get as much information as I can.”
Good for you, I wish more of the EAB aircraft builders and pilots had that approach to this subject.
9) “BTW, where are you located and what are you building/flying?”
I am located in Fairfax, VA and I have been flying my KIS TR-1 out of KHEF (Manassas Regional Airport) since 2003 after six and one half years of building. I am an ancient person and former military pilot with more hours, aircraft types, education, and ratings than my poor old body can support.
OC
**PS: For the most part the FARs are written in the “forbidding mode”. They tell you what you can not do (legally) with words such as “ no person may.... unless”. So if something is not forbidden by the regulations then it should be permitted. Note that FAR Section 91.13 specifically forbids “careless and reckless” (stupid?) operations.
================
From: Don Johnston (don(at)velocity-xl.com)
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 8:53 AM
To: Owen Baker (bakerocb(at)cox.net)
Subject: Re: EAB IFR Certification
Owen,
Thanks for the email!
I've got to say that I'm totally baffled by this. There's a lot of ignorance, mis-information and just downright stupidity out there.
I ran across this article from the EAA and figured that I would be okay. It's a little vague but I thought that it was pretty clear.
I spoke to my avionics guy and he said that any non-TSO'd equipment would require separate certification to fly IFR. But he didn't know how to obtain that certification.
A friend that used Aerotronics for his panel build was told him he needed a VOR head to fly IFR even though he's got a GRT display that shows the CDI.
I spoke with the factory of my kit and they said that because it's such a gray area that they only install certified avionics (Garmin G3X seems to be the one they use).
I'm going to be pretty annoyed if when I'm done building I get a "VFR only" sticker.
So whenever I run across anything that has to do with IFR in an experimental aircraft, I try and get as much information as I can.
BTW, where are you located and what are you building/flying?
Thanks,
-Don
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stuart(at)stuarthutchison
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:20 am Post subject: EAB IFR Certification |
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For those that are interested last year I wrote a 35-page IFR safety case to CASA (in Australia) on behalf of the Sport Aircraft Association of Australia (SAAA) to justify ongoing AB(E) IFR approvals.
Similar situation here IFR is not precluded, but the rules are sketchy/contradictory in places and some LAMEs claim amateur IFR build / maint may lead to a breakdown in flight separation.
CASAs project summary is described here: http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_101318
Our safety case is publicly available linked toward the bottom of the SAAA home page IFR Safety Case at: www.saaa.com.au
Cheers, Stu
F1 Rocket VH-FLY www.mykitlog.com/rockfly
On 30 Oct 2014, at 2:53 am, Stein Bruch <stein(at)steinair.com (stein(at)steinair.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Spot on comments for the US, but for Canada not so muchas those requirements are wholly different for IFR then ours in the US are. Im still not sure if folks are specifically discussing US or Canada rules, but I do know that some of it is getting intermingled here which will only lead to the possibility of additional confusion. Perhaps this should be split into US rules and Canada rules.because they are quite different.
Cheers,
Stein
Do not archive
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Owen Baker
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 10:16 AM
To: Don Johnston; aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: EAB IFR Certification
10/29/2014
Hello Don, You wrote:
1) There's a lot of ignorance, mis-information and just downright stupidity out there.
Amen to that.
2) I spoke to my avionics guy and he said that any non-TSO'd equipment would require separate certification to fly IFR.
Ill be kind and put that requirement initially into the mis-information category. If he insists, then it may have to be placed over into the downright stupidity category.
3) But he didn't know how to obtain that certification.
That would be because there is no such requirement and no way to do so.
4) I ran across this article from the EAA.....
I have no significant issue with the article. I wish that they had used the word allowed instead of approved in the following sentence: In order for the aircraft to be approved for IFR operations,.... because the word approved connotes some sort of specific positive action or approval document to be provided by the FAA and that is not what will happen.**
5) A friend that used Aerotronics for his panel build was told him he needed a VOR head to fly IFR even though he's got a GRT display that shows the CDI.
My reaction when someone tells me thus and so is to ask for the specific regulation or requirement that makes it so. It is astounding, as you alluded to, at the amount of hearsay, rumor, and gossip that is available on this subject. If what I am told can not be substantiated by documentation then it falls into one of those three categories.
6) I spoke with the factory of my kit and they said that because it's such a gray area that they only install certified avionics (Garmin G3X seems to be the one they use).
Fine with me. They are certainly within their right to install what they wish into the instrument panel and airplane that they are providing to a kit purchasing customer. I am not sure what they mean by certified avionics though. Do they mean TSOd avionics? If so I am further puzzled (amused?) by the fact that the Garmin G3X is not TSOd. See here:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/aviation/sport-aviation/g3x-/prod63892.html
7) I'm going to be pretty annoyed if when I'm done building I get a "VFR only" sticker.
I dont see that happening. Instead you should get this statement in your Operating Limitations: After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only. and the subsequent compliance is up to you.**
So whenever I run across anything that has to do with IFR in an experimental aircraft, I try and get as much information as I can.
Good for you, I wish more of the EAB aircraft builders and pilots had that approach to this subject.
9) BTW, where are you located and what are you building/flying?
I am located in Fairfax, VA and I have been flying my KIS TR-1 out of KHEF (Manassas Regional Airport) since 2003 after six and one half years of building. I am an ancient person and former military pilot with more hours, aircraft types, education, and ratings than my poor old body can support.
OC
**PS: For the most part the FARs are written in the forbidding mode. They tell you what you can not do (legally) with words such as no person may.... unless. So if something is not forbidden by the regulations then it should be permitted. Note that FAR Section 91.13 specifically forbids careless and reckless (stupid?) operations.
================
From: Don Johnston (don(at)velocity-xl.com)
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 8:53 AM
To: Owen Baker (bakerocb(at)cox.net)
Subject: Re: EAB IFR Certification
Owen,
Thanks for the email!
I've got to say that I'm totally baffled by this. There's a lot of ignorance, mis-information and just downright stupidity out there.
I ran across this article from the EAA and figured that I would be okay. It's a little vague but I thought that it was pretty clear.
I spoke to my avionics guy and he said that any non-TSO'd equipment would require separate certification to fly IFR. But he didn't know how to obtain that certification.
A friend that used Aerotronics for his panel build was told him he needed a VOR head to fly IFR even though he's got a GRT display that shows the CDI.
I spoke with the factory of my kit and they said that because it's such a gray area that they only install certified avionics (Garmin G3X seems to be the one they use).
I'm going to be pretty annoyed if when I'm done building I get a "VFR only" sticker.
So whenever I run across anything that has to do with IFR in an experimental aircraft, I try and get as much information as I can.
BTW, where are you located and what are you building/flying?
Thanks,
-Don
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