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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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 Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:19 pm Post subject: Center section wing bolt alignment |
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In preparation for attaching my QB wings I tried a trial insertion of the NAS bolts into the two halves of the center carrythrough in the QB fuselage. The pilot side holes are lined up and bolts fit snuggly. Passenger side the holes have at least a 1/16" vertical misallignment that would prevent getting the bolts in regardless of force applied.
Have others run into this and come up with a solution? I have email drafted to go to Van's for their solution, but some how I doubt I have the only quick built that isn't just right.
Kelly
95% done, 95% to do.
[quote][b]
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:10 pm Post subject: Center section wing bolt alignment |
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That sounds like a major problem. Hopefully Van's will make it right.
Jesse SaintI-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 26, 2014, at 10:16 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]In preparation for attaching my QB wings I tried a trial insertion of the NAS bolts into the two halves of the center carrythrough in the QB fuselage. The pilot side holes are lined up and bolts fit snuggly. Passenger side the holes have at least a 1/16" vertical misallignment that would prevent getting the bolts in regardless of force applied.
Have others run into this and come up with a solution? I have email drafted to go to Van's for their solution, but some how I doubt I have the only quick built that isn't just right.
Kelly
95% done, 95% to do.
| Quote: |
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
ot;">www.aeroelectric.com
books.com"">www.buildersbooks.com
quot;">www.homebuilthelp.com
quot;">www.mypilotstore.com
">www.mrrace.com
ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
//forums.matronics.com
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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[b]
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Lew Gallagher
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:02 pm Post subject: Center section wing bolt alignment |
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Hey Kelly,
1/16” vertical misalignment is a lot. I’m not sure if this is the same issue you’re talking about, but I did find that on our quick build the outer “sandwich” layer on the center spar was just enough out of alignment that I had to file it flush to get the bolts to go through. It was so slight that I didn’t notice it until I couldn’t get the bolts to go through on the first trial fit of the wings, but it still took some elbow grease to hand finish it. No problems with it five years of flying.
Later, – Lew
On Nov 26, 2014, at 10:16 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] In preparation for attaching my QB wings I tried a trial insertion of the NAS bolts into the two halves of the center carrythrough in the QB fuselage. The pilot side holes are lined up and bolts fit snuggly. Passenger side the holes have at least a 1/16" vertical misallignment that would prevent getting the bolts in regardless of force applied.
Have others run into this and come up with a solution? I have email drafted to go to Van's for their solution, but some how I doubt I have the only quick built that isn't just right.
Kelly
[b]
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_________________
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed ! |
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:40 pm Post subject: Center section wing bolt alignment |
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Lew,
Thanks for the suggestion. I can insert the bolts from back or front and get same misalignment, so I don't think it is the sandwich, but I will look at it again for that specific issue.
Kelly
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 10:00 PM, <lewgall(at)charter.net (lewgall(at)charter.net)> wrote:
[quote] Hey Kelly,
1/16” vertical misalignment is a lot. I’m not sure if this is the same issue you’re talking about, but I did find that on our quick build the outer “sandwich” layer on the center spar was just enough out of alignment that I had to file it flush to get the bolts to go through. It was so slight that I didn’t notice it until I couldn’t get the bolts to go through on the first trial fit of the wings, but it still took some elbow grease to hand finish it. No problems with it five years of flying.
Later, – Lew
On Nov 26, 2014, at 10:16 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | In preparation for attaching my QB wings I tried a trial insertion of the NAS bolts into the two halves of the center carrythrough in the QB fuselage. The pilot side holes are lined up and bolts fit snuggly. Passenger side the holes have at least a 1/16" vertical misallignment that would prevent getting the bolts in regardless of force applied.
Have others run into this and come up with a solution? I have email drafted to go to Van's for their solution, but some how I doubt I have the only quick built that isn't just right.
Kelly
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| Quote: |
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
ank">www.mrrace.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
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karolamy(at)roadrunner.co
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:09 am Post subject: Center section wing bolt alignment |
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Hi Kelly,
After commiserating with you in reading your email, a thought occurred to me. I had purposely forgotten about this so as not to have continuous bad dreams about it. So here is the question: Do you have the same serial number fuselage as you do wings? As in, are the numbers matching? As in, were you one of the unfortunate ones that lost your quick build in the Philippines weather disaster some years ago???
If my memory serves me correctly, I was told that if the numbers were matching these two parts were match drilled or drilled together. But I was also told from Vans that they were drilled with such precision that even if they were not match drilled you could have two different serial number wings and fuselage and that they would match just fine. On a positive note, I do remember one builder sharing that his did not match and all went together just fine. But, maybe there is more to that story……
Just food for thought in case. I am only weeks behind you in fitting and it was just last week that I was looking at my serial number on the fuselage spar connect and looking for my build serial number only to see it not match. What, I said? And then I remembered, I was supposed to forget that!
Check it out and see what you find. Probably more than one inquiring mind would like to know! And if the different serial number issue is not the case, we will still be anxious to hear what you found and did. Enlarging holes is cringe-able to say the least. Building another wing is Super cringe-able.
RV-10 - same phase as you - only weeks from attaching wings
Rich Hansen
| Quote: |
Time: 07:19:23 PM PST US
Subject: Center section wing bolt alignment
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
In preparation for attaching my QB wings I tried a trial insertion of the
NAS bolts into the two halves of the center carrythrough in the QB
fuselage. The pilot side holes are lined up and bolts fit snuggly.
Passenger side the holes have at least a 1/16" vertical misallignment that
would prevent getting the bolts in regardless of force applied.
Have others run into this and come up with a solution? I have email drafted
to go to Van's for their solution, but some how I doubt I have the only
quick built that isn't just right.
Kelly
95% done, 95% to do.
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:13 am Post subject: Center section wing bolt alignment |
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I talked to Van's about this a few months ago. They don't match drill the RV-10 spars to the center sections. Their CNC us accurate enough that they don't need to.
The problem is that the center sections were not bolted together with the spacers when they were assembled for riveting, so they don't align. Or, one of the parts is drilled or bent wrong so they don't fit right. It is definitely a problem on Van's part. I have never seen one that didn't align, even I planes assembled by people who had no clue what they were doing, so I assume it's a bad part somewhere in there. This should have been checked as it was being built.
Inspect carefully the internal structure and see if any rivets are broken or sheared, if any skins are wrinkled ever so slightly. It could have been tweaked in transport.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Nov 27, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Rich Hansen <karolamy(at)roadrunner.com> wrote:
Hi Kelly,
After commiserating with you in reading your email, a thought occurred to me. I had purposely forgotten about this so as not to have continuous bad dreams about it. So here is the question: Do you have the same serial number fuselage as you do wings? As in, are the numbers matching? As in, were you one of the unfortunate ones that lost your quick build in the Philippines weather disaster some years ago???
If my memory serves me correctly, I was told that if the numbers were matching these two parts were match drilled or drilled together. But I was also told from Vans that they were drilled with such precision that even if they were not match drilled you could have two different serial number wings and fuselage and that they would match just fine. On a positive note, I do remember one builder sharing that his did not match and all went together just fine. But, maybe there is more to that story……
Just food for thought in case. I am only weeks behind you in fitting and it was just last week that I was looking at my serial number on the fuselage spar connect and looking for my build serial number only to see it not match. What, I said? And then I remembered, I was supposed to forget that!
Check it out and see what you find. Probably more than one inquiring mind would like to know! And if the different serial number issue is not the case, we will still be anxious to hear what you found and did. Enlarging holes is cringe-able to say the least. Building another wing is Super cringe-able.
RV-10 - same phase as you - only weeks from attaching wings
Rich Hansen
>
> Time: 07:19:23 PM PST US
> Subject: Center section wing bolt alignment
> From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
>
> In preparation for attaching my QB wings I tried a trial insertion of the
> NAS bolts into the two halves of the center carrythrough in the QB
> fuselage. The pilot side holes are lined up and bolts fit snuggly.
> Passenger side the holes have at least a 1/16" vertical misallignment that
> would prevent getting the bolts in regardless of force applied.
> Have others run into this and come up with a solution? I have email drafted
> to go to Van's for their solution, but some how I doubt I have the only
> quick built that isn't just right.
> Kelly
> 95% done, 95% to do.
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:43 pm Post subject: Center section wing bolt alignment |
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I will check, but the wing # vs fuselage # is irrelevant in this case.
It is the two halves of the center section on one side of the fuselage
that have the misalignment. At this stage the wings are not involved.
Unfortunately my QB was one of the first to come out of Manila after
relocation/reorganization of the facility their. There were a number of
QC issues right from the start, like not countersinking the longerons
before riveting on the dimpled skins.
On 11/27/2014 10:06 AM, Rich Hansen wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi Kelly,
After commiserating with you in reading your email, a thought occurred to me. I had purposely forgotten about this so as not to have continuous bad dreams about it. So here is the question: Do you have the same serial number fuselage as you do wings? As in, are the numbers matching? As in, were you one of the unfortunate ones that lost your quick build in the Philippines weather disaster some years ago???
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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woxofswa
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Center section wing bolt alignment |
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I had QB wings with legacy fuselage and they were NOT a serial number pair, and it took very little effort to match them up.
On one wing we used a lubed taper pin patted softly with rivet gun on a couple of holes (initial corners, upper one side, bottom other side) , but the next time it all went really well. I too had to file a little on the outer sandwich plate on a couple of holes. Sometimes I think it is kind of an optical illusion when they appear misaligned. At one point in final assembly we thought we had a misalignment, until we remembered that they had already been together once. Just a guy moving the wingtip slightly seems to make a significant difference in the alignment of the holes.
I never touched the factory bolts until the day they went in for good. We froze and lubed them, but they went in with very little rubber mallet encouragement. Most went in with just finger pressure.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014 |
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karolamy(at)roadrunner.co
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:57 pm Post subject: Center section wing bolt alignment |
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Jesse,
I see your point. Also I see that my comments don’t even apply since I obviously didn’t read into the problem well enough. The problem appears to present itself with the bolts not aligning (won’t go through the fore and aft holes) before the wing is even attached. Therefore only your comments and ideas apply here. And, I can’t come up with any other scenario other than what you said: shipping damage or disfigurement during transportation, riveting done without alignment bolts installed to begin with, etc……
Rich
| Quote: |
Time: 07:19:23 PM PST US
Subject: Center section wing bolt alignment
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
In preparation for attaching my QB wings I tried a trial insertion of the
NAS bolts into the two halves of the center carrythrough in the QB
fuselage. The pilot side holes are lined up and bolts fit snuggly.
Passenger side the holes have at least a 1/16" vertical misallignment that
would prevent getting the bolts in regardless of force applied.
Have others run into this and come up with a solution? I have email drafted
to go to Van's for their solution, but some how I doubt I have the only
quick built that isn't just right.
Kelly
95% done, 95% to do.
_
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| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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