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Latest Parking brake victim

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Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:11 pm Post subject: Latest Parking brake victim

Less than 24 hours after bleeding my brakes I was seeing a drip or two from the infamous Matco parking brake, even though I have only applied foot pressure to the brake pedals for less than 10 seconds total.



Any body got a mechanically competent, slightly malnourished 10 yr old for rent? 



  [quote][b]

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

philperry9

Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:26 pm Post subject: Latest Parking brake victim

Kelly,

Can you wait 6 years?   I'll start starving and training him today and he should be perfect by the time he's 10. 

Phil

Do Not Archive



Sent from my iPhone



On Dec 4, 2014, at 10:08 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Less than 24 hours after bleeding my brakes I was seeing a drip or two from the infamous Matco parking brake, even though I have only applied foot pressure to the brake pedals for less than 10 seconds total.



Any body got a mechanically competent, slightly malnourished 10 yr old for rent? 



   	  Quote: 	
		  

	


[b]

davidsoutpost(at)comcast.
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:34 pm Post subject: Latest Parking brake victim

Been there and done that.  Not a fun job and most definitely painful on the back.  I removed both front seats and control sticks.  Put down some pillows and and blankets which helped a little   After dissection of the valve,  I found some machining chips in mine that cut into a O ring which made it leak.  The valve shaft left a lot to be desired also.  I polished up the rough spots on the shaft, cleaned out the valve and reassembled with a new O ring kit.  No leaks since.  Good luck.



Dave



From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 11:08:38 PM

Subject: RV10-List: Latest Parking brake victim

Less than 24 hours after bleeding my brakes I was seeing a drip or two from the infamous Matco parking brake, even though I have only applied foot pressure to the brake pedals for less than 10 seconds total.



Any body got a mechanically competent, slightly malnourished 10 yr old for rent? 



 	  Quote: 	
		  



_blank" data-mce-href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

" target="_blank" data-mce-href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

="_blank" data-mce-href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

="_blank" data-mce-href="http://www.mypilotstore.com">www.mypilotstore.com

ank" data-mce-href="http://www.mrrace.com">www.mrrace.com

_blank" data-mce-href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

get="_blank" data-mce-href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

ta-mce-href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



	




 [quote][b]

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:51 am Post subject: Latest Parking brake victim

My 12-year-old is a good wrench, and he's small for his age. Where do I ship him?



Jesse SaintI-TEC, Inc.

jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)

www.itecusa.org

www.mavericklsa.com

C: 352-427-0285

O: 352-465-4545

F: 815-377-3694

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 4, 2014, at 11:23 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Kelly,

Can you wait 6 years?   I'll start starving and training him today and he should be perfect by the time he's 10. 

Phil

Do Not Archive



Sent from my iPhone



On Dec 4, 2014, at 10:08 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Less than 24 hours after bleeding my brakes I was seeing a drip or two from the infamous Matco parking brake, even though I have only applied foot pressure to the brake pedals for less than 10 seconds total.



Any body got a mechanically competent, slightly malnourished 10 yr old for rent? 



   	  Quote: 	
		  

	






D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ot;">www.aeroelectric.com

books.com"">www.buildersbooks.com

quot;">www.homebuilthelp.com

quot;">www.mypilotstore.com

">www.mrrace.com

ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

//forums.matronics.com

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



	


[b]

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:51 am Post subject: Latest Parking brake victim

Thanks Jesse. I'll let you know, unless I get twisted into a pretzel and 

can't get out from under the panel.

One would think that Matco would figure out by now what the issue is, 

and fix it. I understand that an AN3 bolt used is really a little too 

large and causes the pieces to spread apart just enough to allow 

leakage. It appears that Matco has been good about fixing the units, but 

the hassle of removing and reinstalling isn't improving their marketing 

image.



On 12/5/2014 5:49 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   My 12-year-old is a good wrench, and he's small for his age. Where do 

 I ship him?



 Jesse Saint

 I-TEC, Inc.

 jesse(at)itecusa.org <mailto:jesse(at)itecusa.org>

 www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>

 www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>

 C: 352-427-0285

 O: 352-465-4545

 F: 815-377-3694



 Sent from my iPhone



 On Dec 4, 2014, at 11:23 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com 

 <mailto:philperry9(at)gmail.com>> wrote:



> Kelly,

>

> Can you wait 6 years?   I'll start starving and training him today 

> and he should be perfect by the time he's 10.

>

> Phil

>

> Do Not Archive

>

> Sent from my iPhone

>

> On Dec 4, 2014, at 10:08 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com 

> <mailto:apilot2(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

>

>> Less than 24 hours after bleeding my brakes I was seeing a drip or 

>> two from the infamous Matco parking brake, even though I have only 

>> applied foot pressure to the brake pedals for less than 10 seconds 

>> total.

>> Any body got a mechanically competent, slightly malnourished 10 yr 

>> old for rent? 

>> *

>>

>>

>> *

> *

>

> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> ot;">www.aeroelectric.com

> books.com"">www.buildersbooks.com

> quot;">www.homebuilthelp.com

> quot;">www.mypilotstore.com

> ">www.mrrace.com

> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> //forums.matronics.com

> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>

> *

 *

 *

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

woxofswa

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Latest Parking brake victim

Here's a recap of my experience from a previous thread. 



Getting home was a trick because I could only turn right on the ground, but figured that the home ramp was big enough to do a right 270 if I needed to go left. Thankfully, it worked out. 



This morning I did one of the most physically challenging things of the entire build which was worm myself under the panel, around the stick, and prop up on a kidney (braced by a rib) with both arms intertwined into the cables and rudder pedals, (disregarding the sweat and brake fluid seeping into my eyes), to remove the lines from the devil spawned valve and join the line ends together with spare male male through wall fittings I just happened to have . Luckily with both legs extended scorpion tail style out the door opening I was able to move the one that still had bloodflow as a counterbalance to my twisted spine. 

Expecting a friend coming by I get a phone call so I manage to flex my man boob enough to push my phone up high enough to pluck the phone out of my shirt pocket with my teeth and drop it on the footwell floor. The caller ID says "Van's", so I contort enough to tap answer with my elbow only to be asked by Van's Chevrolet in Scottsdale if it was a convenient time to discuss my future automotive needs.

_________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:55 pm Post subject: Latest Parking brake victim

After action report. I was fortunate. I did get to remove and reinstall the parking brake twice to confirm that the only leakage from the parking brake was from the fittings, not the valve body. So I did not have to contact Matco or do anything special with the valve.



By the time I am done, I will have redone every pipe fitting fitting in my brake system with aviation pipe thread sealant, and ensured all flare fittings have proper torque. 3 flare fittings required the DEL seals sold by Spruce. (well, looked like it was needed and I wasn't going to screw around with them with multiple tests, so went with belt and suspenders attack that worked).



Very few fittings had significant leaks, but because they are on interior and I don't want a future mess, I corrected any fitting with even a hint of a seep. I already had control sticks out for other work, so I could get my creaky old bones under the panel okay.



On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:[quote]Less than 24 hours after bleeding my brakes I was seeing a drip or two from the infamous Matco parking brake, even though I have only applied foot pressure to the brake pedals for less than 10 seconds total.



Any body got a mechanically competent, slightly malnourished 10 yr old for rent? 



   	  Quote: 	
		  

	
[b]

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

saylor.dave(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:24 pm Post subject: Latest Parking brake victim

I've pretty much given up on teflon paste-type thread sealants.Â  I prefer Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket on threads these days.



--Dave

On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:[quote]After action report. I was fortunate. I did get to remove and reinstall the parking brake twice to confirm that the only leakage from the parking brake was from the fittings, not the valve body. So I did not have to contact Matco or do anything special with the valve.



By the time I am done, I will have redone every pipe fitting fitting in my brake system with aviation pipe thread sealant, and ensured all flare fittings have proper torque. 3 flare fittings required the DEL seals sold by Spruce. (well, looked like it was needed and I wasn't going to screw around with them with multiple tests, so went with belt and suspenders attack that worked).



Very few fittings had significant leaks, but because they are on interior and I don't want a future mess, I corrected any fitting with even a hint of a seep. I already had control sticks out for other work, so I could get my creaky old bones under the panel okay.



On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  Less than 24 hours after bleeding my brakes I was seeing a drip or two from the infamous Matco parking brake, even though I have only applied foot pressure to the brake pedals for less than 10 seconds total.



Any body got a mechanically competent, slightly malnourished 10 yr old for rent? 



   	  Quote: 	
		  

	




_blank">www.aeroelectric.com

.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com

="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com

ank">www.mrrace.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com



	
[b]

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:23 am Post subject: Re: Latest Parking brake victim

[quote="saylor.dave(at)gmail.com"]I've pretty much given up on teflon paste-type thread sealants.Â  I prefer Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket on threads these days.



--Dave

/quote]



Dave, Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket Number One, or Number Three? Spruce sells both.

John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

saylor.dave(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:16 am Post subject: Latest Parking brake victim

I use No. 3.



On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 5:23 AM, johngoodman <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net (johngoodman(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net (johngoodman(at)earthlink.net)>

 

 [quote="saylor.dave(at)gmail.com"]I've pretty much given up on teflon paste-type thread sealants.Â  I prefer Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket on threads these days.

 

 --Dave

 /quote]

 

 Dave, Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket Number One, or Number Three? Spruce sells both.

 John

 

 --------

 #40572 Phase One complete in 2011

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435735#435735

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 br> fts!)

 r> > com" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com

 w.buildersbooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

 p.com" target="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com

 e.com" target="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com

 " target="_blank">www.mrrace.com

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:27 am Post subject: Latest Parking brake victim

On 12/15/2014 8:23 AM, johngoodman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 [quote="saylor.dave(at)gmail.com"]I've pretty much given up on teflon paste-type thread sealants.Â  I prefer Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket on threads these days.



 --Dave

 /quote]



 Dave, Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket Number One, or Number Three? Spruce sells both.

 John



I really hate to see this thread rear it's ugly head over and over.
	


Proper use of AN fittings should (read that word again) not require 

thread sealants.  If you have a leak then there's something wrong and 

covering up the problem with thread sealant (to me) isn't the best 

course of action.

Nowhere in AC43.12-1B does the term 'thread sealant' appear.  Yeah, I 

know ..... "it's experimental and I can do what I want."



Almost all of the 'thread sealant' problems I've helped 'fix' are in the 

brake system ..... almost all due to sealant debris in the brake master 

cylinder.  It appears that some folks think "If a little thread sealant 

helps, then lots if thread sealant must be better."



In Kelly's email he mentions the DEL seals for flare fittings. They're 

available and acceptable to 'fix' leaking flare fittings, although they 

aren't in AC43.13-1B either.  Properly made and maintained, flare 

fittings should not leak.  But they do because they were 'over flared' 

(my term) or over time the nut had been tightened by a gorilla with a 

wrench trying to stop a leak.  I've seen thin flares on certified and 

experimentals, and even seen JB weld in there as a 'fix'.



Don't misunderstand me.  I used to 'fix' stuff using whatever method was 

available, but having seen what happens over time I try and correct the 

problem instead of covering it up. And yes, I may still go off the deep 

end trying to be creative 'fixing' when I couldn't actually fix the 

problem correctly.

Linn

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:53 am Post subject: Latest Parking brake victim

Many of the flare fittings in the brake system have pipe threads on the 

other end(at parking brake, at master cylinders.) It is the pipe threads 

that benefit from the sealant, NOT the flare fittings, which as you say 

should be nothing but clean and dry. Tubing flares are kind of like 

bucked rivets. The first few efforts are really ugly and over time they 

improve to acceptable to very nice. With the tubing that is fabricated 

for the -10 you would need twice as much to get skilled and making 

perfect flares. Fortunately Vans has you do the brake lines before the 

fuel lines. Sure, I could remake some of the lines. Unfortunately, Vans 

chose to supply the lowest grade tubing, and obviously some builders 

chose to substitute higher quality tubing. However a buck or so for the 

DEL seal accomplishes the same thing as remaking a tube, in a lot less 

time and money. Some of my seeps were hardly noticeable without use of a 

clean paper towel to catch the hint of red. I don't want to have to deal 

with such seepage later, so I made a major effort to ensure each fitting 

was perfectly dry after applying pressure to the system for over an hour 

with the parking brake holding enough pressure to keep the calipers 

locked. In actual use, such minor seepage would not have been detected 

for a long time...just my choice of how to test and perfect the system.

On 12/15/2014 7:23 AM, Linn Walters wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On 12/15/2014 8:23 AM, johngoodman wrote:

> 

> <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>

>

> [quote="saylor.dave(at)gmail.com"]I've pretty much given up on teflon 

> paste-type thread sealants.Â  I prefer Permatex Aviation 

> Form-A-Gasket on threads these days.

>

> --Dave

> /quote]

>

> Dave, Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket Number One, or Number Three? 

> Spruce sells both.

> John

>

 I really hate to see this thread rear it's ugly head over and over.

 Proper use of AN fittings should (read that word again) not require 

 thread sealants.  If you have a leak then there's something wrong and 

 covering up the problem with thread sealant (to me) isn't the best 

 course of action.

 Nowhere in AC43.12-1B does the term 'thread sealant' appear. Yeah, I 

 know ..... "it's experimental and I can do what I want."

 Almost all of the 'thread sealant' problems I've helped 'fix' are in 

 the brake system ..... almost all due to sealant debris in the brake 

 master cylinder.  It appears that some folks think "If a little thread 

 sealant helps, then lots if thread sealant must be better."

 In Kelly's email he mentions the DEL seals for flare fittings. They're 

 available and acceptable to 'fix' leaking flare fittings, although 

 they aren't in AC43.13-1B either.  Properly made and maintained, flare 

 fittings should not leak.  But they do because they were 'over flared' 

 (my term) or over time the nut had been tightened by a gorilla with a 

 wrench trying to stop a leak.  I've seen thin flares on certified and 

 experimentals, and even seen JB weld in there as a 'fix'.

 Don't misunderstand me.  I used to 'fix' stuff using whatever method 

 was available, but having seen what happens over time I try and 

 correct the problem instead of covering it up. And yes, I may still go 

 off the deep end trying to be creative 'fixing' when I couldn't 

 actually fix the problem correctly.

 Linn

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Latest Parking brake victim

 	  Quote: 	
		  Properly made and maintained, flare fittings should not leak. But they do because they were 'over flared' (my term) or over time the nut had been tightened by a gorilla with a wrench trying to stop a leak. 	




The key words there are "properly made." I wonder where those fittings are actually made? My experience (very limited to one RV-10) has shown me that about 5 to 10 percent of fittings always leak. Replace them with another and the problem is solved. The hardest one to find was a female pipe thread that turned out to be out of round. I got an exact replacement from the same store, and found the same problem. Changed brands, and the problem was solved.

Never buy a car made on a Monday...  

John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:49 am Post subject: Latest Parking brake victim

Both kelly (pipe thread) and John (chinese? fittings) make good points.  

It isn't easy to dodge all the bullets.  I've been hit more than once. 

It's all a learning experience.



One thing I have done is to draw a vacuum (think "mighty vac") from the 

reservoir before filling with fluid.  I expect to find really slow leaks 

... mostly from dry seals .... but nothing major.  You'll find loose 

flare nuts that way.  Putting 10 - 20 pounds pressure into the reservoir 

after filling with fluid should show where the leaks are within an hour 

or so.  Left overnight though you may find puddles.  BTDT.



Another thing I've learned about flaring aluminum tubing (the hard way) 

is to go slow, backing off like you do with a tap, and using plenty of 

lubricant.  I think going slow allows the aluminum to flow rather than 

crack.  I use 5606 brake fluid for lubricant.

My 2 pennies, IMHO, and all the other disclaimers!!!!

Linn



On 12/15/2014 10:01 AM, johngoodman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

> Properly made and maintained, flare fittings should not leak. But they do because they were 'over flared' (my term) or over time the nut had been tightened by a gorilla with a wrench trying to stop a leak.



 The key words there are "properly made." I wonder where those fittings are actually made? My experience (very limited to one RV-10) has shown me that about 5 to 10 percent of fittings always leak. Replace them with another and the problem is solved. The hardest one to find was a female pipe thread that turned out to be out of round. I got an exact replacement from the same store, and found the same problem. Changed brands, and the problem was solved.

 Never buy a car made on a Monday... [Laughing]

 John



 --------

 #40572 Phase One complete in 2011





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435739#435739





 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

saylor.dave(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:45 pm Post subject: Latest Parking brake victim

Sure, never use any sealants on a b-nut. Just pipe threads. I figured that's what Kelly was describing.Â 

--D

On Monday, December 15, 2014, Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com (flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com>

 

 Both kelly (pipe thread) and John (chinese? fittings) make good points.Â  It isn't easy to dodge all the bullets.Â  I've been hit more than once. It's all a learning experience.

 

 One thing I have done is to draw a vacuum (think "mighty vac") from the reservoir before filling with fluid.Â  I expect to find really slow leaks .... mostly from dry seals .... but nothing major.Â  You'll find loose flare nuts that way.Â  Putting 10 - 20 pounds pressure into the reservoir after filling with fluid should show where the leaks are within an hour or so.Â  Left overnight though you may find puddles.Â  BTDT.

 

 Another thing I've learned about flaring aluminum tubing (the hard way) is to go slow, backing off like you do with a tap, and using plenty of lubricant.Â  I think going slow allows the aluminum to flow rather than crack.Â  I use 5606 brake fluid for lubricant.

 My 2 pennies, IMHO, and all the other disclaimers!!!!

 Linn

 

 On 12/15/2014 10:01 AM, johngoodman wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>

 

 

  	  Quote: 	
		   Properly made and maintained, flare fittings should not leak. But they do because they were 'over flared' (my term) or over time the nut had been tightened by a gorilla with a wrench trying to stop a leak.

 	
 

 The key words there are "properly made." I wonder where those fittings are actually made? My experience (very limited to one RV-10) has shown me that about 5 to 10 percent of fittings always leak. Replace them with another and the problem is solved. The hardest one to find was a female pipe thread that turned out to be out of round. I got an exact replacement from the same store, and found the same problem. Changed brands, and the problem was solved.

 Never buy a car made on a Monday... [Laughing]

 John

 

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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:03 am Post subject: Latest Parking brake victim

On 12/15/2014 10:45 AM, Linn Walters wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Another thing I've learned about flaring aluminum tubing (the hard 

 way) is to go slow, backing off like you do with a tap, and using 

 plenty of lubricant.  I think going slow allows the aluminum to flow 

 rather than crack.  I use 5606 brake fluid for lubricant.

 My 2 pennies, IMHO, and all the other disclaimers!!!!

 Linn

I am someone who didn't have a clue as to how to make proper flares.  I 
	


got the proper tool and tried to read everything I could find - would 

love to find a definitive Youtube/EAA clip showing how this is done.



Exactly what you described above - backing off 4-6 times for each flare 

with plenty of lube - seems to do the trick perfectly for me. Do that, 

and don't overflare, and they have been reliable and leak free for me.



Tapered pipe fittings where another story.....

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:23 am Post subject: Latest Parking brake victim

On 12/14/2014 10:20 PM, David Saylor       wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		         I've pretty much given up on teflon paste-type         thread sealants.Â  I prefer Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket on         threads these days.         

         

         --Dave

       

     	
     I've used no sealant as well asÂ  several teflon past-type sealeants     as well and had both brake line and oil line leaks.Â  I've had     leaks.Â  The Form-a-Gasket sounds like a solution - wish I found out     sooner.

     

     While chasing the equivalent Loctite product, I finally found and     used this -       Permatex High Performance Thread Sealant #56521.Â  This too is     a solution.

     

     They have a half dozen similar products but this works reliably and     easily on high pressure tapered fittings.Â  Little is required, it     doesn't harden, it seems to cure instantly and simply doesn't leak.Â      It works so well in comparison to the other products, I'm not sure     how it does it but does.

     

     On a non-aviation note:Â  I recently had the need to fix several     water line breaks (black poly pipe). The landscape guys fixed it     with gray PVC push in fittings and a white PVC cap on a tapered     fitting.Â  They all leaked very slowly.Â  They thought it was the push     in barb fitting and kept putting extra and new hose clamps on it but     I could see it was the white threaded cap on the gray threaded     fitting.Â  The cap would inevitably break before one could tighten it     enough to stop the leak.

     

     One light application of #56521 and no leaks - didn't even have to     cinch it down very far.Â  And the fittings were easily removeable     with no dried up sealant pieces to get clean up and keep out of     sensitive systems.Â  I've done about 6 of these now - same results. Â      I found the same with a slow leaking oil cooler fitting on the '10.

      [quote][b]

rv10flyer(at)live.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 am Post subject: Latest Parking brake victim

Brian carpenter covered a video on flared tubing under the eas videos

Flared Tubing-Fabrication & Assembly - EAA Video Player - Your ...www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=[url=tel:3727487001]3727487001[/url]



Dec 2, 2008 - In this Hint, Brian Carpenter demonstrates how to fabricate and assemble flared tubing for use in many aircraft installaitons. Brian is an A&P ...



Sent from my iPad



On Dec 16, 2014, at 9:09 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)>



On 12/15/2014 10:45 AM, Linn Walters wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Another thing I've learned about flaring aluminum tubing (the hard way) is to go slow, backing off like you do with a tap, and using plenty of lubricant.  I think going slow allows the aluminum to flow rather than crack.  I use 5606 brake fluid for lubricant.

My 2 pennies, IMHO, and all the other disclaimers!!!!

Linn

	
I am someone who didn't have a clue as to how to make proper flares.  I got the proper tool and tried to read everything I could find - would love to find a definitive Youtube/EAA clip showing how this is done.



Exactly what you described above - backing off 4-6 times for each flare with plenty of lube - seems to do the trick perfectly for me. Do that, and don't overflare, and they have been reliable and leak free for me.



Tapered pipe fittings where another story.....



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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:03 am Post subject: Latest Parking brake victim

Good one!Â  That covers everything it       would seem except that I can't/won't do it in one tightening.Â        Multiple ins and outs seems to insure no cracking or whatever.Â        Maybe just 2-3 times.

       

       If I was paid by the hour I might work harder to get that one shot       and done technique to work.Â  Might involve the consistent use of       the 45deg reamer before starting.

       

       On 12/16/2014 12:28 PM, P Reid wrote:

     

     [quote]              Brian carpenter covered a video on flared tubing under the         eas videos

                Flared Tubing-Fabrication & Assembly               - EAA Video Player - Your ...                    www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=[url=tel:3727487001]3727487001[/url]

           Dec 2, 2008               -Â In this Hint, Brian Carpenter demonstrates how to             fabricate and assembleÂ flaredÂ tubing             for use in many aircraft installaitons. Brian is an             A&PÂ ...

         

         Sent from my iPad

       

         On Dec 16, 2014, at 9:09 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)>         wrote:

         

       

        	  Quote: 	
		           --> RV10-List message posted by: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)>

           

           On 12/15/2014 10:45 AM, Linn Walters wrote:

            	  Quote: 	
		  Another thing I've learned about               flaring aluminum tubing (the hard way) is to go slow,               backing off like you do with a tap, and using plenty of               lubricant. Â I think going slow allows the aluminum to flow               rather than crack. Â I use 5606 brake fluid for lubricant.

           My 2 pennies, IMHO, and all the               other disclaimers!!!!

           Linn

           	
           I am someone who didn't have a clue as to how to make             proper flares. Â I got the proper tool and tried to read             everything I could find - would love to find a definitive             Youtube/EAA clip showing how this is done.

           

           Exactly what you described above - backing off 4-6 times             for each flare with plenty of lube - seems to do the trick             perfectly for me. Do that, and don't overflare, and they             have been reliable and leak free for me.

           

           Tapered pipe fittings where another story.....

           

         

       	
     [b]

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Parking brake victim

"Another thing I've learned about flaring aluminum tubing (the hard way) 

is to go slow, backing off like you do with a tap, and using plenty of 

lubricant. I think going slow allows the aluminum to flow rather than 

crack."



If you look very carefully at the way the flaring tool works, you'll see that the flare is not at all round (due to the 3 lobes on the tool) as you go in. It is only when you back off (and the threads do not turn for 340 degrees) that you make the flare round. It is important to turn the tool a full turn counter clockwise before releasing the tubing from the clamping mechanism.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

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