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Elevator counterweight

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rvdave

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 191

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:00 pm Post subject: Elevator counterweight

I am installing the elevators, this is a kit I bought from someone who already had the lead weights bolted on and the fiberglass tips riveted on.  When I went to install the elevator with the trim tab attached I expected to let go of the elevator and see it fall to full up position but instead it fell to full down elevator.  It doesn't look like the weight had been cut, drilled or shaved in any way.  Is this normal?  Does the elevator need to balance to stay level by itself during initial install?  With the pushrods hooked up there is enough resistance with the pitch servo to hold it where I put it.

_________________
Dave Ford
Cadillac, MI

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:20 pm Post subject: Elevator counterweight

I don't remember the number, but there is a procedure for checking the balance (I think in the little notebook the is the beginning of the building plans). 



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

352-427-0285

jesse(at)saintaviation.com



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Feb 18, 2015, at 7:00 PM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 I am installing the elevators, this is a kit I bought from someone who already had the lead weights bolted on and the fiberglass tips riveted on.  When I went to install the elevator with the trim tab attached I expected to let go of the elevator and see it fall to full up position but instead it fell to full down elevator.  It doesn't look like the weight had been cut, drilled or shaved in any way.  Is this normal?  Does the elevator need to balance to stay level by itself during initial install?  With the pushrods hooked up there is enough resistance with the pitch servo to hold it where I put it.

 

 --------

 Dave Ford

 RV6 for sale

 RV10 building

 Cadillac, MI

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438486#438486

rvdave

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 191

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Elevator counterweight

I think I do have that booklet at the hangar, I will look into that.

_________________
Dave Ford
Cadillac, MI

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:55 pm Post subject: Elevator counterweight

I don't think you get the sheets on checking rigging and balance of the 

control surfaces until the finish kit.

It would be a lot better if the info were on the plans at the end of the 

build of each control surface.

I'm not all that inclined to remove the control surfaces yet again to 

check balance, when it will have to be done again when the plane is painted.



On 2/18/2015 5:16 PM, Jesse Saint wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I don't remember the number, but there is a procedure for checking the balance (I think in the little notebook the is the beginning of the building plans).



 Jesse Saint

 Saint Aviation, Inc.

 352-427-0285

 jesse(at)saintaviation.com



 Sent from my iPad



> On Feb 18, 2015, at 7:00 PM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> wrote:

>

> 

>

> I am installing the elevators, this is a kit I bought from someone who already had the lead weights bolted on and the fiberglass tips riveted on.  When I went to install the elevator with the trim tab attached I expected to let go of the elevator and see it fall to full up position but instead it fell to full down elevator.  It doesn't look like the weight had been cut, drilled or shaved in any way.  Is this normal?  Does the elevator need to balance to stay level by itself during initial install?  With the pushrods hooked up there is enough resistance with the pitch servo to hold it where I put it.

>

> --------

> Dave Ford

> RV6 for sale

> RV10 building

> Cadillac, MI

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438486#438486

>

>

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

rvdave

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 191

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Elevator counterweight

Interesting.... I found this in the archives:



Vans does have a spec for elevator balance. It can be found in their Final Inspection and Flight Test Document on Page 2. For the -10 it is 37.5 in/lbs Trailing Edge Heavy. The factory can tell you how to rig the appropriate test equipment... 



John Hasbrouck 

#40264 

[quote][b]



Actually the equipment needed for checking the counterbalances is quite 

simple. For the elevators you need a rod attached to the elevators 

extending forward to a point 37.5 inches from the hinge centerline with a 1 

lb weight attached at that point. ( 37.5 in/lb ). This is with both 

elevators attached, the trim in place and the tips on. If your choose to 

pop rivet the tips on you should probably wait until the final balance is 

done. ( Didn't tell us that in the plans did they? I used #4 screws and 

nutplates for mine. ) Adjust counterweights so the elevators rest trailing 

edge low. Any other builders who want to correct or expand on the above 

procedure please do so. I'd appreciate constructive advise particularly 

from previous RVers. BTW. The old -6 plans called for the builder to melt 

lead ingots into a mould to form the counterweights. Boy are we spoiled!!

John Hasbrouck

_________________
Dave Ford
Cadillac, MI

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:53 pm Post subject: Elevator counterweight

That assumes that the rod could be attached exactly at the hinge point. 

Or you can measure the distance from the hinge point to the trailing 

edge. With the hinge bolts on a knife edge, place a scale under the 

trailing edge to measure the weight there times the distance.



I'm curious as to how many of the flying RV-10s were checked for flight 

control balance before first flight, and if so, how much weight 

adjustment was needed, if any.



On 2/18/2015 8:31 PM, rvdave wrote:

[quote] 



 Interesting.... I found this in the archives:



 Vans does have a spec for elevator balance. It can be found in their Final Inspection and Flight Test Document on Page 2. For the -10 it is 37.5 in/lbs Trailing Edge Heavy. The factory can tell you how to rig the appropriate test equipment...



 John Hasbrouck

 #40264

  	  Quote: 	
		  [b]



 Actually the equipment needed for checking the counterbalances is quite

 simple. For the elevators you need a rod attached to the elevators

 extending forward to a point 37.5 inches from the hinge centerline with a 1

 lb weight attached at that point. ( 37.5 in/lb ). This is with both

 elevators attached, the trim in place and the tips on. If your choose to

 pop rivet the tips on you should probably wait until the final balance is

 done. ( Didn't tell us that in the plans did they? I used #4 screws and

 nutplates for mine. ) Adjust counterweights so the elevators rest trailing

 edge low. Any other builders who want to correct or expand on the above

 procedure please do so. I'd appreciate constructive advise particularly

 from previous RVers. BTW. The old -6 plans called for the builder to melt

 lead ingots into a mould to form the counterweights. Boy are we spoiled!!

 John Hasbrouck



 --------

 Dave Ford

 RV6 for sale

 RV10 building

 Cadillac, MI





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438490#438490

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:01 pm Post subject: Elevator counterweight

You could also do double the weight at half the distance, etc. figuring the amount of weight to put on top of both counterbalance arms would be my preference. 



Jesse Saint

I-TEC, Inc.

jesse(at)itecusa.org

www.itecusa.org

www.mavericklsa.com

C: 352-427-0285

O: 352-465-4545

F: 815-377-3694



Sent from my iPhone



[quote] On Feb 18, 2015, at 10:31 PM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Interesting.... I found this in the archives:

 

 Vans does have a spec for elevator balance. It can be found in their Final Inspection and Flight Test Document on Page 2. For the -10 it is 37.5 in/lbs Trailing Edge Heavy. The factory can tell you how to rig the appropriate test equipment... 

 

 John Hasbrouck 

 #40264 

  	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

 

 Actually the equipment needed for checking the counterbalances is quite 

 simple. For the elevators you need a rod attached to the elevators 

 extending forward to a point 37.5 inches from the hinge centerline with a 1 

 lb weight attached at that point. ( 37.5 in/lb ). This is with both 

 elevators attached, the trim in place and the tips on. If your choose to 

 pop rivet the tips on you should probably wait until the final balance is 

 done. ( Didn't tell us that in the plans did they? I used #4 screws and 

 nutplates for mine. ) Adjust counterweights so the elevators rest trailing 

 edge low. Any other builders who want to correct or expand on the above 

 procedure please do so. I'd appreciate constructive advise particularly 

 from previous RVers. BTW. The old -6 plans called for the builder to melt 

 lead ingots into a mould to form the counterweights. Boy are we spoiled!!

 John Hasbrouck

 

 --------

 Dave Ford

 RV6 for sale

 RV10 building

 Cadillac, MI

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438490#438490

rvdave

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 191

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Elevator counterweight

Spoke with Ken at Vans this morning, his view is-- that is normal that the stock Vans lead counterweight is enough for a standard build standard operated 10 and that the elevator would float down to full down elevator at install with the trim tab attached. His only concern was flutter from either too much bondo or similar product aft of hinge line, or extreme altitude or speed beyond Vans engineered ideals.  He left it with the thought that I already had the solution but was looking for a problem.  

Not sure what to think regarding any adjustment or balancing now.

_________________
Dave Ford
Cadillac, MI

speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:01 am Post subject: Elevator counterweight

Build on



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Feb 19, 2015, at 9:50 AM, rvdave <rv610dave(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Spoke with Ken at Vans this morning, his view is-- that is normal that the stock Vans lead counterweight is enough for a standard build standard operated 10 and that the elevator would float down to full down elevator at install with the trim tab attached. His only concern was flutter from either too much bondo or similar product aft of hinge line, or extreme altitude or speed beyond Vans engineered ideals.  He left it with the thought that I already had the solution but was looking for a problem.  

 Not sure what to think regarding any adjustment or balancing now.

 

 --------

 Dave Ford

 RV6 for sale

 RV10 building

 Cadillac, MI

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438506#438506

rv10flyer

Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Elevator counterweight

Mine is factory original with no problems so far. Like above, build on.

_________________
Wayne G.

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