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Dennis Kirby
Joined: 05 Dec 2013
Posts: 35
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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 Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:19 pm Post subject: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support |
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Kolb Friends -
This post serves as an advisory to alert you of problems that I encountered with engine parts from JBM Enterprises, and the subsequent backlash I experienced with that company when I tried to talk to them about it. BOTTOM LINE: Avoid these guys at all cost!
Rotax recommends replacing the rubber carb sockets every 5 years for the 912 engine. I was a couple years past due, so I decided to replace them even though the originals still looked OK. After seeing one or two generally favorable posts on this List recommending JBM, I went ahead and ordered a pair of new carb sockets from them two years ago. What seemed favorable at the time was their cost - $76 each, versus $104 for the genuine Rotax part.
In the past 2 years, I've flown about 100 hours on my Mark-3. When I was doing my annual inspection last month, I noticed that one of the carb sockets was beginning to split. The split was NOT next to the clamp, where splits often occur due to overtightening. When I installed it, I was careful to follow the installation instructions precisely, and not over- or under-tighten the clamps. Rather, the split occurred at the junction where the flange meets the cylindrical rubber part - clearly a premature failure of either the material or the manufacturing process.
I e-mailed the company, explained the problem, and asked if they would replace the part for me. I made it clear that I did not question the integrity of the company, but simply accepted that an occasional flawed part could find its way out the door. They refused, citing how their warranty only covered defective parts that are discovered upon receipt of the part.
Accepting that, I asked if they could at least provide a replacement at a discounted price for me. Again they said no, so I figured that I'd just need to order a new one at the full price. I ordered the replacement, and asked if they might consider at least dropping the $7 shipping charge. JBM's response shocked me. They questioned why I still wanted to order anything from them if I thought their products were of inferior quality (even though I never said that), and then they CANCELLED MY ORDER!
Needless to say, I was not going to continue that dialogue. I ordered the genuine Rotax part from Lockwood and have moved on. Even though I was willing to give them another chance by purchasing a replacement for a part that had failed, JBM's blatant disregard for any sort of Customer Service was made very clear to me. Other customers may have had different experiences, but I know that I shall never again order from, nor recommend them to anyone.
If this saves even one fellow Light Sport pilot from having the same bad experience I had, then this was worth it.
Fly safely -
Dennis Kirby
Kolb Mark-3 / 912ul
Sandia Park, New Mexico
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:37 pm Post subject: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support |
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I've purchased SS exhaust springs for the Titan system and carb boots.
Never had any dialogue with them though. Both products have been on my
MKIII for several years and continue to be serviceable.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Kolb Friends -
This post serves as an advisory to alert you of problems that I encountered
with engine parts from JBM Enterprises, and the subsequent backlash I
experienced with that company when I tried to talk to them about it. BOTTOM
LINE: Avoid these guys at all cost!
Needless to say, I was not going to continue that dialogue. I ordered the
genuine Rotax part from Lockwood and have moved on. Even though I was
willing to give them another chance by purchasing a replacement for a part
that had failed, JBM's blatant disregard for any sort of Customer Service
was made very clear to me. Other customers may have had different
experiences, but I know that I shall never again order from, nor recommend
them to anyone.
If this saves even one fellow Light Sport pilot from having the same bad
experience I had, then this was worth it.
Fly safely -
Dennis Kirby
Kolb Mark-3 / 912ul
Sandia Park, New Mexico
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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sspence801(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:30 pm Post subject: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support |
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Dennis:
Thanks for the heads-up on this company. I plan to change the carb socks along with other rubber parts at this year's annual. I will not do business with JBM in light of your experience. I will also pass your words on to members of the Rans list.
Steve Spence
Auburn Hills, MI
former Mk3X owner
current S
On Thursday, February 19, 2015 3:40 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>
I've purchased SS exhaust springs for the Titan system and carb boots.
Never had any dialogue with them though. Both products have been on my
MKIII for several years and continue to be serviceable.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Kolb Friends -
This post serves as an advisory to alert you of problems that I encountered
with engine parts from JBM Enterprises, and the subsequent backlash I
experienced with that company when I tried to talk to them about it. BOTTOM
LINE: Avoid these guys at all cost!
Needless to say, I was not going to continue that dialogue. I ordered the
genuine Rotax part from Lockwood and have moved on. Even though I was
willing to give them another chance by purchasing a replacement for a part
that had failed, JBM's blatant disregard for any sort of Customer Service
was made very clear to me. Other customers may have had different
experiences, but I know that I shall never again order from, nor recommend
them to anyone.
If this saves even one fellow Light Sport pilot from having the same bad
experience I had, [quote][b]
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:39 am Post subject: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support |
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Whoa!
Dennis has a problem with a company that has been in business for a good while. Dennis' is the first complaint about this company that I am aware of.
Steve changes his mind, based on Dennis' one complaint, will not do business with JBM and is going to pass the word to the members of the RANS List???
All this based on one complaint?
If that is how we do business I would have dropped Kolb 31 years ago when I was building my Ultrastar.
I have been doing business with JBM for a long time. Currently flying with JBM carb boots and SS exhaust springs on my 912ULS.
Maybe we need to back off and take a closer look at the situation before we try to kill a man's business that seems, for the most part, to be providing customers like me good products.
Just my own personal opinion folks.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Still working on my first cup of coffee, waiting for Spring, and Sun and Fun 2015.
Dennis:
Thanks for the heads-up on this company. I plan to change the carb socks along with other rubber parts at this year's annual. I will not do business with JBM in light of your experience. I will also pass your words on to members of the Rans list.
Steve Spence
Auburn Hills, MI
former Mk3X owner
current S
[quote][b]
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:08 am Post subject: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support |
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john have a second cup of coffee....relax and take a deep breath. Maybe a third cup of coffee.
Dennis has had an issue with JBM and stated his complaint in very quiet terms. I know there are 2 sides to every story and the only thing we have heard from JBM is what Dennis’s responses from the company have been. if JBM wants to join the conversation I would like to hear what they have to say. Only one other individual has mentioned his willingness to avoid business with JBM and the only other thing he has stated he would do is to share with others that there has been ONE complaint. no one has gone out and cut JBM’s phone or internet line. personally I ran a plumbing business for years. Normally I stayed a few days behind my ability to keep up. when I would have a warrantee call come in,,,, they went to the top of the list. I figured if I did not take care of my past customers, I did not deserve new ones. when those people who had had something go wrong, and I took care of it quickly, and with a smile on my face. they would tell their friends and neighbors. the phone would ring, and soon I would be an extra day behind. Best advertising on earth, word of mouth.
seems you have had a good experience, and told other so. if anyone has purchased anything at JBM because of your recommendation, that is good.... Dennis has had the opposite experience, In business you have to take the good with the bad. From Dennis's explanation, I did not think his request to be overboard, and if JBM had responded with a smile and made Dennis Happy, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. seems Dennis was willing to make another purchase,,, and if JBM would have accepted only $20 profit instead of $30 profit on the item, the world would have been a happier place. instead they canceled his order and decided to take $0.00 profit,( and apparently a little bad press ) and if at least one other will not shop there,,, the net ledger sheet will be a negative number, when compared to what it could have been. sounded to me like it was their choice.
My $0.02 worth
boyd young
sorry I got winded, do not archive.
Dennis has a problem with a company that has been in business for a good while. Dennis' is the first complaint about this company that I am aware of.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Still working on my first cup of coffee, waiting for Spring, and Sun and Fun 2015.
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:57 am Post subject: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support |
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I, too, have had nothing but good service and great parts from JBM. I don't know what went wrong in Dennis' interaction with whomever he talked with at JBM, but I've had three equally positive phone calls with them. If anyone takes Dennis' account as an indictment to be spread to others you are doing a disservice to them and JBM.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 10:06 AM, b young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
 john  have a second cup of coffee....relax and take a deep breath.  Maybe a third cup of coffee.Â
Â
Dennis has had an issue with JBM and stated his complaint in very quiet terms.  I know there are 2 sides to every story and the only thing we have heard from JBM is what Dennis’s responses from the company have been.   if JBM wants to join the conversation I would like to hear what they have to say.     Only one other individual has mentioned his willingness to avoid business with JBM and the only other thing he has stated he would do is to share with others that there has been ONE complaint.  no one has gone out and cut JBM’s phone or internet line.  personally I ran a plumbing business for years.  Normally I stayed a few days behind my ability to keep up. when I would have a warrantee call come in,,,, they went to the top of the list.  I figured if I did not take care of my past customers, I did not deserve new ones.   when those people who had had something go wrong, and I took care of it quickly, and with a smile on my face. they would tell their friends and neighbors.  the phone would ring, and soon I would be an extra day behind.  Best advertising on earth, word of mouth.
seems you have had a good experience, and told other so. if anyone has purchased anything at JBM because of your recommendation, that is good.... Dennis has had the opposite experience, In business you have to take the good with the bad. From Dennis's explanation, I did not think his request to be overboard, and if JBM had responded with a smile and made Dennis Happy, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.  seems Dennis was willing to make another purchase,,, and if JBM would have accepted only $20 profit instead of $30 profit on the item,  the world would have been a happier place.  instead they canceled his order and decided to take $0.00 profit,( and apparently a little bad press ) and if at least one other will not shop there,,, the net ledger sheet will be a negative number, when compared to what it could have been.  sounded to me like it was their choice.
Â
My $0.02 worth
Â
boyd young
Â
sorry I got winded,  do not archive.
Dennis has a problem with a company that has been in business for a good while. Dennis' is the first complaint about this company that I am aware of.
Â
Â
 Â
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Still working on my first cup of coffee, waiting for Spring, and Sun and Fun 2015.
Â
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get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Believe those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who find it.
-Andre Gide
[quote][b]
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The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:15 am Post subject: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support |
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Perhaps you misinterpreted my mood when I responded to Dennis and Steve's post, which was primarily directed at Steve. I don't feel it's necessary to start advertising Dennis' single complaint to try and shut down JBM.
No requirement for me to "relax and take a deep breath". I stay in a pretty relaxed as it is.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Low and slow at hauck's holler, Alabama, keeping the fireplace roaring!!!!!!
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of b young
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 10:06 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support
john have a second cup of coffee....relax and take a deep breath. Maybe a third cup of coffee.
Dennis has had an issue with JBM and stated his complaint in very quiet terms. I know there are 2 sides to every story and the only thing we have heard from JBM is what Dennis’s responses from the company have been. if JBM wants to join the conversation I would like to hear what they have to say. Only one other individual has mentioned his willingness to avoid business with JBM and the only other thing he has stated he would do is to share with others that there has been ONE complaint. no one has gone out and cut JBM’s phone or internet line. personally I ran a plumbing business for years. Normally I stayed a few days behind my ability to keep up. when I would have a warrantee call come in,,,, they went to the top of the list. I figured if I did not take care of my past customers, I did not deserve new ones. when those people who had had something go wrong, and I took care of it quickly, and with a smile on my face. they would tell their friends and neighbors. the phone would ring, and soon I would be an extra day behind. Best advertising on earth, word of mouth.
seems you have had a good experience, and told other so. if anyone has purchased anything at JBM because of your recommendation, that is good.... Dennis has had the opposite experience, In business you have to take the good with the bad. From Dennis's explanation, I did not think his request to be overboard, and if JBM had responded with a smile and made Dennis Happy, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. seems Dennis was willing to make another purchase,,, and if JBM would have accepted only $20 profit instead of $30 profit on the item, the world would have been a happier place. instead they canceled his order and decided to take $0.00 profit,( and apparently a little bad press ) and if at least one other will not shop there,,, the net ledger sheet will be a negative number, when compared to what it could have been. sounded to me like it was their choice.
My $0.02 worth
boyd young
sorry I got winded, do not archive.
Dennis has a problem with a company that has been in business for a good while. Dennis' is the first complaint about this company that I am aware of.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Still working on my first cup of coffee, waiting for Spring, and Sun and Fun 2015.
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[quote][b]
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support |
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I bought carb boots from JBM several years ago and they are still doing good, they have some minuscule cracks in their centers, but nothing to worry about yet. However I do coat all my rubber parts with dielectric grease at installation and at each annual condition inspection. I am satisfied with JBM parts and will continue to use them.
Having said that, it certainly sounds like whoever runs JBM can sometimes be as cranky and short sighted as I sometimes am...
A couple years ago Vince, one of my local friends who is also on the Kolb list, had his full size Ford quit on him, and based on my recommendation of the shop my son worked at, had it towed to that shop.
As I remember the story, #1 son listened to Vince's description of the failure, opened the trunk, hit the fuel pump relay reset button, and said "There ya go, no charge, have a nice day." - words to that effect.
Shop management pitched a hissy fit because the shop didn't get any immediate money, only good word of mouth.
#1 son, having consistently seen too much of that sort of thing, now works at a different shop. And is much happier.
There is a moral to this story, but I assume you guys have already figured it out.
Stay warm and safe my friends.
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Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.
Last edited by Richard Pike on Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Arty Trost
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 205
Location: Sandy, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:09 pm Post subject: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support |
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First, a disclaimer: I have no doubt that Dennis experienced what he says he experienced with JBM. I know Dennis and have found him to be an honorable man...and very meticulous when it comes to his flying addiction.
I just want to say that I have been using JBM carb boots and miscellaneous other small parts for some time, and have never had any problem with either the items or with JBM. Steve - if you choose to never use JBM, that's one thing. But I whole-heartedly agree with John that to start warning others off a company based on one complaint - even if it is totally valid - is hard to justify.
Arty Trost
Sandy, Oregon
www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm
"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"
Helen Keller
"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 6:39 AM
Subject: RE: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support
Whoa!
Dennis has a problem with a company that has been in business for a good while. Dennis' is the first complaint about this company that I am aware of.
Steve changes his mind, based on Dennis' one complaint, will not do business with JBM and is going to pass the word to the members of the RANS List???
All this based on one complaint?
If that is how we do business I would have dropped Kolb 31 years ago when I was building my Ultrastar.
I have been doing business with JBM for a long time. Currently flying with JBM carb boots and SS exhaust springs on my 912ULS.
Maybe we need to back off and take a closer look at the situation before we try to kill a man's business that seems, for the most part, to be providing customers like me good products.
Just my own personal opinion folks.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Still working on my first cup of coffee, waiting for Spring, and Sun and Fun 2015.
Dennis:
Thanks for the heads-up on this company. I plan to change the carb socks along with other rubber parts at this year's annual. I will not do business with JBM in light of your experience. I will also pass your words on to members of the Rans list.
Steve Spence
Auburn Hills, MI
former Mk3X owner
current S
| Quote: |
ronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
ronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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alienwes
Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 64
Location: Roswell, NM
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:17 am Post subject: Re: JBM - Inferior Product, Poor Customer Support |
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Dennis has been on this forum for awhile. I have read his posts and they always seem logical and without ill intentions. I agree that it should be reposted on the Rans list. Maybe others will come forward with their experiences, hopefully not and the guy he talked to is new or just had a lapse in judgement. But by documenting his experience people have something to reference if they also have a bad experience. If those on this forum had the same experience as Dennis, I am sure they would have posted it here.
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Wesley Elliott
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