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MK III Engine Options
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sfrIII

Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 10

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:47 pm Post subject: MK III Engine Options

Hi Rick,

 

Thanks for your information.   I was in contact with "Kolb" for several

months and provided my intended engine choice and its specs for

weight and other things.

 

They said it would work so I paid them and am now building.

 

Thanks Sam

do not archive

 

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard

Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 8:03 AM

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: MK III Engine Options



 

Sfrill, Great looking engine, but you need to consider its weight. Putting a 200 lb.+ engine in a MkIIIX reduces it to a single passenger airplane. I've flown the IIIX at 1280 lb. Very poor performance. My peronal recommendation is to not fly it at greater than 1100 lb. You also need to consider the strength of the rear portion of the fuselage truss. The MkIII was designed as a +4g airframe. Doubling the design engine weight seriously compromises the aircraft's designed strength margin.

 



Rick Girard



do not archive

 

On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 5:06 PM, sfrIII <sfr3(at)speedyquick.net (sfr3(at)speedyquick.net)> wrote:

--> Kolb-List message posted by: "sfrIII" <sfr3(at)speedyquick.net (sfr3(at)speedyquick.net)>



Hi all!    Sam here in Idaho.   I am currently building a MKIII Extra.

My engine of choice is a converted Corvair Engine that I built for a

different project.   There are several pros and cons but the main reason

for using a Corvair is price.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=438562#438562





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http://forums.matronics.com//files/corvair_engine1_171.jpg





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Believe those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who find it.



-Andre Gide



 



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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:53 pm Post subject: MK III Engine Options

How does frontal area of the Corvair compare with the 912?



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

sfrIII

Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 10

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:51 pm Post subject: MK III Engine Options

Hi John,



I found this photo of a running Corvair on a Peitenpol.



I don't think it is any larger than the 912.



Thanks, Sam



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rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:58 pm Post subject: MK III Engine Options

Samuel, William Wynn is the defacto expert on the Corvair engine, is he not? His web site lists the all up wet flying weight of the Corvair at somewhere between 212 to 225 lb. That is not 30 lb. more than the Rotax 912, that's 62 to 75 lb.I worked on a MkIIIX for a customer and shaved every pound possible off the aircraft and couldn't get the weight below 620 lb and it was powered by a 582-99 that's over 100 lb. lighter than the weight listed by Mr. Wynn.

Rick

do not archive

On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Samuel Ragland <sfr3(at)speedyquick.net (sfr3(at)speedyquick.net)> wrote:

[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Samuel Ragland" <sfr3(at)speedyquick.net (sfr3(at)speedyquick.net)>

 

 Hi Ron,

 

 I have looked Hi and Low for an EXTRA

 powered with a Corvair.

 

 People assume that this engine is very heavy.

 In reality, a running aircraft converted Corvair

 is only 30 LBS. heavier than a 912.

 

 Sam

 

 

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sfrIII

Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 10

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:58 pm Post subject: MK III Engine Options

Hi Rick,

 

Your absolutely correct.    In  revue of William's site, I found

that my comparison should have been with a VW installation.

 

I guess the girl friend will have to ride in the nose cone!!

 

Sorry about that,

Sam

do not archive

 

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard

Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 4:58 PM

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: MK III Engine Options



 

Samuel, William Wynn is the defacto expert on the Corvair engine, is he not? His web site lists the all up wet flying weight of the Corvair at somewhere between 212 to 225 lb. That is not 30 lb. more than the Rotax 912, that's 62 to 75 lb.

I worked on a MkIIIX for a customer and shaved every pound possible off the aircraft and couldn't get the weight below 620 lb and it was powered by a 582-99 that's over 100 lb. lighter than the weight listed by Mr. Wynn.



 



Rick



do not archive

 

On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Samuel Ragland <sfr3(at)speedyquick.net (sfr3(at)speedyquick.net)> wrote:

--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Samuel Ragland" <sfr3(at)speedyquick.net (sfr3(at)speedyquick.net)>



Hi Ron,



I have looked Hi and Low for an EXTRA

powered with a Corvair.



People assume that this engine is very heavy.

In reality, a running aircraft converted Corvair

is only 30 LBS. heavier than a 912.



Sam

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ron.dace(at)yahoo.com

Joined: 19 Feb 2015
Posts: 8
Location: Illinois

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: MK III Engine Options

Thanks for all of the good feedback.  I am going to need a 100hp engine to get my 6'4" 250lb carcass off the ground particularly if there is any hope of carrying a passenger.  What I have concluded so far:



912s - although expensive, probably the best option, no air frame mods required, good resale potential, known quantity probably the highest market penetration.  (that is what I was trying to discern with my original post)



VW w/re-drive - less expensive, overheating is a possible issue, would have to mod the air frame (additional cost with potential resale impact), there are a limited number currently flying on a MK III.



Speaking of resale, it is always an issue with an experimental / kit built airplane.  The original owner of the air frame couldn't sell it with the motor intact and get any where near the build cost.  Parting it out was a better option.  



While some of the other options are intriguing and a good solution for some, maybe they aren't a good fit for me.

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Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:17 am Post subject: Re: MK III Engine Options

Having built several Corvair engines over the years, while they can be made quite bulletproof, all the ones I have ever seen in aircraft use are tractors, so they can be easily cooled. As a pusher, cooling is going to get a lot more complicated. Besides; they are just too heavy.

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Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Dennis Kirby

Joined: 05 Dec 2013
Posts: 35
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:20 pm Post subject: MK III Engine Options

"ron.dace" wrote:

<<  I will probably fly it in the 50 to 80 hour a year range.  An under 10K option would be optimal.  If it cost more then a 912 would be worth considering.  Buying new is expensive, buying used is fraught with risk. >>



Ron / All -



I must agree with John H's advice, that the Rotax-912 (either model) is a good bet for your money.



When I finished building my Mark-3 in 2002 (before it was labeled "Classic"), like you, I too was looking to save a few bucks on an engine.  I bought a new Verner-1400 (80 hp) because it looked like a good 2-cylinder 4-stroke engine with lots of torque.  New price was $7500.  I even flew in another Mark-3 with that engine installed to be sure.  Seemed to fly fine with that engine.  The engine sounded good and provided plenty of power.  The Kolb Company was also experimenting with that engine, so I thought I made a good choice.  Well ...



Turns out the engine was creating an insidious and destructive harmonic vibration in my Kolb that made it unsuitable to continue use.  Pulled it off after only 20 hours and began looking for a different engine.  The guys at Kolb Co also concluded that the Verner was not a good match for the Mark-3, and scrapped further testing with that engine.



I began looking on Barnstormers, and found a low-time 80 hp 912ul (with only 22 hrs TT) for sale for $8500.  Bought it, and it was the best choice I could have made.  I've put 300 hours on my Kolb since then, and it has never missed a beat.  As Hauck said, reliability is key, and this engine delivers.  Plug and play for a Kolb Mark-3.  No experimentation or modification necessary to make it fit right.  I'd rather spend my time flying instead of experimenting.



So, keep your eyes on Barnstormers - the 912 does occasionally come up for sale.  And if you buy one that's in good shape, you won't be disappointed.  That was MY experience, anyway.  Good luck ...



Dennis Kirby

Mark-3 / 912ul / Powerfin-72

Sandia Park, NM

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