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Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing

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LarryRosen

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Medford, NJ

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing

After a very long break, I have started working on building my RV10 

again.  I am working on fixing some of the things I don't like about how 

that came out.  One is how the  rear heat scat tube is routed around my 

fuel valve and over the wing spar.



I have two possible solutions.

One is to reduce to a 1 or 1-1/2" tube.  Those that fly in the cold 

north, do you think you would still get enough heat to the back 

passengers with a 1" tube?



The second is to construct a fiberglass duct to route around the problem 

areas.  Is the hot air from the heater valve hot enough to cause 

problems with a duct constructed of glass and west epoxy?



Larry

RV10 #40356

_________________
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
<http>

rv10flyer(at)live.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:10 pm Post subject: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing

Larry

The heat is plenty hot that when we use it it has been about 1-10th of open, so smaller tubing would work fine

I have a Fiberglass plenum over my engine and there is no issue, so I can not imagine it would be an issue. I used Aeropoxy slow cure and that is rated for hotter temps, sure west marine has a higher temp resin as well.

Best of success



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Mar 23, 2015, at 7:40 PM, Larry Rosen <n205en(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 After a very long break, I have started working on building my RV10 again.  I am working on fixing some of the things I don't like about how that came out.  One is how the  rear heat scat tube is routed around my fuel valve and over the wing spar.

 

 I have two possible solutions.

 One is to reduce to a 1 or 1-1/2" tube.  Those that fly in the cold north, do you think you would still get enough heat to the back passengers with a 1" tube?

 

 The second is to construct a fiberglass duct to route around the problem areas.  Is the hot air from the heater valve hot enough to cause problems with a duct constructed of glass and west epoxy?

 

 Larry

 RV10 #40356

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:11 am Post subject: Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing

Larry,

I used a 1.75 inch scat tube from Aircraft Spruce - it works fine.

John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:27 am Post subject: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing

Larry,



I used a 1.5" hose from the fire wall to the rear connector, with homebrew

reducers at each end to make the transition between 2" and 1.5".  I did this

as it made routing the hose much easier.



Assuming you are doing the stock Vetterman exhaust there is an amazing

amount of heat available for the cabin.  Considering this, I installed a

3/4" diameter restrictor in the rear baffle heat muff hose connectors to

reduce the amount of air going to the heat muff.  As I would never use that

much heat, I figured that the other 90% of flying where the heat is off I'd

rather have that air cooling the engine instead of bypassing it.  Now on the

coldest days I have the rear heat half open and the front heat cracked open

or shut.



One other point - I view the per plans cabin heat valve location as

problematic.  On the hottest day you have hot air off the heat muffs being

directed back at the engine - right at the mechanical fuel pump.  My fix for

this was to install a piece of Koolmat between the firewall cabin heat boxes

(holes cut out for the box air exit) such that the mat extends over the top

of the boxes and then down over the front of the boxes.  The result is when

the cabin heat valves are shut, the dumped hot air is directed down toward

the bottom of the cowl, and the conductive heat from the boxes to the

firewall is reduced.  This is the Koolmat product:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php?clickkey=261602



I'm happy with how it all worked out.

Carl 



--

LarryRosen

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Medford, NJ

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:36 am Post subject: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I used a 1.5" hose from the fire wall to the rear connector, with homebrew

 reducers at each end to make the transition between 2" and 1.5".  I did this

 as it made routing the hose much easier.

It sounds like 1" tubing would provide more than enough heat.
	




I may homebrew or just use these reducers from planeinovations  

<http://www.planeinnovations.com/scat-adapters.html> It will depend if I 

want to spend time or money.



 	  Quote: 	
		   One other point - I view the per plans cabin heat valve location as

 problematic.  On the hottest day you have hot air off the heat muffs being

 directed back at the engine - right at the mechanical fuel pump.  My fix for

 this was to install a piece of Koolmat between the firewall cabin heat boxes

 (holes cut out for the box air exit) such that the mat extends over the top

 of the boxes and then down over the front of the boxes.  The result is when

 the cabin heat valves are shut, the dumped hot air is directed down toward

 the bottom of the cowl, and the conductive heat from the boxes to the

 firewall is reduced.  This is the Koolmat product:

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php?clickkey=261602



I am having a hard time visualizing what you installed.  Are you using 
	


the koolmat to direct the hot air down instead of towards the engine.  

In this case the koolmat is working as a plenum and not insulating the fwf.



Larry

_________________
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
<http>

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing

I visualize this as the cool mat being in an inverted U shape. One side against the firewall for insulation; the other hanging down a few inches from the firewall to direct the hot air down.



I did half this: put silicon baffle material under the box to insulate it from the firewall.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:54 am Post subject: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing

Larry,  



I looked for a photo but only found one when the fuselage was upside down

(attached).  So if you can visualize, the flap that is hanging down would

hang over the top of the boxes and scat hoses when upright.  You can see the

round notches cut to lay over the scat hoses.  The result is the dumped hot

air from the cabin heat boxes is directed down toward the cowl exhaust area.



Carl

--

Koolmat.jpg

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Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:20 pm Post subject: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing

http://deemsrv10.com/album/Final%20Assembly/slides/DSC06932.html

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:

[quote]Larry,

 

 I looked for a photo but only found one when the fuselage was upside down

 (attached).Â  So if you can visualize, the flap that is hanging down would

 hang over the top of the boxes and scat hoses when upright.Â  You can see the

 round notches cut to lay over the scat hoses.Â  The result is the dumped hot

 air from the cabin heat boxes is directed down toward the cowl exhaust area.

 

 Carl

 

 

 --

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:21 pm Post subject: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing

http://deemsrv10.com/album/Final%20Assembly/slides/DSC07074.html

click forward for a few more pics

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Larry Rosen <n205en(at)gmail.com (n205en(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <n205en(at)gmail.com (n205en(at)gmail.com)>

 

 

  	  Quote: 	
		   

 I used a 1.5" hose from the fire wall to the rear connector, with homebrew

 reducers at each end to make the transition between 2" and 1.5".Â  I did this

 as it made routing the hose much easier.

 	
 It sounds like 1" tubing would provide more than enough heat.

 

 I may homebrew or just use these reducers from planeinovationsÂ  <http://www.planeinnovations.com/scat-adapters.html> It will depend if I want to spend time or money.

 

  	  Quote: 	
		   One other point - I view the per plans cabin heat valve location as

 problematic.Â  On the hottest day you have hot air off the heat muffs being

 directed back at the engine - right at the mechanical fuel pump.Â  My fix for

 this was to install a piece of Koolmat between the firewall cabin heat boxes

 (holes cut out for the box air exit) such that the mat extends over the top

 of the boxes and then down over the front of the boxes.Â  The result is when

 the cabin heat valves are shut, the dumped hot air is directed down toward

 the bottom of the cowl, and the conductive heat from the boxes to the

 firewall is reduced.Â  This is the Koolmat product:

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php?clickkey=261602

 

 	
 I am having a hard time visualizing what you installed.Â  Are you using the koolmat to direct the hot air down instead of towards the engine.Â  In this case the koolmat is working as a plenum and not insulating the fwf.

 

 Larry

 

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 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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 [b]

LarryRosen

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Medford, NJ

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:40 pm Post subject: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing

Deems,

       1" Scat tubing?

       I take it, no issues with the fiberglass in the heater line.

       

       Larry

       

       On 3/24/2015 4:18 PM, Deems Davis wrote:

     

     [quote]       http://deemsrv10.com/album/Final%20Assembly/slides/DSC07074.html

         

         

         click forward for a few more pics

       

       

         On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Larry           Rosen <n205en(at)gmail.com (n205en(at)gmail.com)>           wrote:

            	  Quote: 	
		  -->             RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <n205en(at)gmail.com (n205en(at)gmail.com)>

             

             

              	  Quote: 	
		                 

               I used a 1.5" hose from the fire wall to the rear               connector, with homebrew

               reducers at each end to make the transition between 2" and               1.5".Â  I did this

               as it made routing the hose much easier.

             	
             It sounds like 1" tubing would provide more than enough             heat.

             

             I may homebrew or just use these reducers from             planeinovationsÂ  <http://www.planeinnovations.com/scat-adapters.html>             It will depend if I want to spend time or money.

             

              	  Quote: 	
		                 One other point - I view the per plans cabin heat valve               location as

               problematic.Â  On the hottest day you have hot air off the               heat muffs being

               directed back at the engine - right at the mechanical fuel               pump.Â  My fix for

               this was to install a piece of Koolmat between the               firewall cabin heat boxes

               (holes cut out for the box air exit) such that the mat               extends over the top

               of the boxes and then down over the front of the boxes.Â                The result is when

               the cabin heat valves are shut, the dumped hot air is               directed down toward

               the bottom of the cowl, and the conductive heat from the               boxes to the

               firewall is reduced.Â  This is the Koolmat product:

               http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php?clickkey=261602

               

             	
             I am having a hard time visualizing what you installed.Â  Are             you using the koolmat to direct the hot air down instead of             towards the engine.Â  In this case the koolmat is working as             a plenum and not insulating the fwf.

             

             Larry

             

             ====================================

             -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

             ====================================

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             _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

             ====================================

             b Site -

             Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

             target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

             ====================================

             

             

             

           

	
     [b]

_________________
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
<http>

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:56 pm Post subject: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing

My first 2â€-1.5â€ scat reducer was made of fiberglass.Â  The first time I turned on the rear heat it did off gas.Â  I replaced it with one made of aluminum.



Carl

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen

Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 5:37 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing

 

Deems,

1" Scat tubing?

I take it, no issues with the fiberglass in the heater line.



Larry



On 3/24/2015 4:18 PM, Deems Davis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

http://deemsrv10.com/album/Final%20Assembly/slides/DSC07074.html

 



click forward for a few more pics

 

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Larry Rosen <n205en(at)gmail.com (n205en(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <n205en(at)gmail.com (n205en(at)gmail.com)>



I used a 1.5" hose from the fire wall to the rear connector, with homebrew

reducers at each end to make the transition between 2" and 1.5".  I did this

as it made routing the hose much easier.

It sounds like 1" tubing would provide more than enough heat.



I may homebrew or just use these reducers from planeinovations  <http://www.planeinnovations.com/scat-adapters.html> It will depend if I want to spend time or money.

One other point - I view the per plans cabin heat valve location as

problematic.  On the hottest day you have hot air off the heat muffs being

directed back at the engine - right at the mechanical fuel pump.  My fix for

this was to install a piece of Koolmat between the firewall cabin heat boxes

(holes cut out for the box air exit) such that the mat extends over the top

of the boxes and then down over the front of the boxes.  The result is when

the cabin heat valves are shut, the dumped hot air is directed down toward

the bottom of the cowl, and the conductive heat from the boxes to the

firewall is reduced.  This is the Koolmat product:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php?clickkey=261602

I am having a hard time visualizing what you installed.  Are you using the koolmat to direct the hot air down instead of towards the engine.  In this case the koolmat is working as a plenum and not insulating the fwf.



Larry



====================================

-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

====================================

FORUMS -

_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

===========

b Site -

          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

====================================





 

 	  Quote: 	
		     	
	


  	  Quote: 	
		   [/b] 	
< Â Â Â  - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS via the Web Â Â  --> http://forums.matronics.com[/url]Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  - List Contribution Web generous  Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  Â -Matt http://www.matronics.com/c=[/b] [/quote]

  [quote][b]

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:29 pm Post subject: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing

The 1" was something I had lying around the hangar. No issues with the fiberglass and the heat.I made the reducers by carving some styrofoam and wraping it with duct/mylar tape and then glassing over it.



On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Larry Rosen <n205en(at)gmail.com (n205en(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]                   Deems,

       1" Scat tubing?

       I take it, no issues with the fiberglass in the heater line.

       

       Larry

       

       On 3/24/2015 4:18 PM, Deems Davis wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		         http://deemsrv10.com/album/Final%20Assembly/slides/DSC07074.html

         

         

         click forward for a few more pics

       

       

         On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Larry           Rosen <n205en(at)gmail.com (n205en(at)gmail.com)>           wrote:

            	  Quote: 	
		  -->             RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <n205en(at)gmail.com (n205en(at)gmail.com)>

             

             

              	  Quote: 	
		                 

               I used a 1.5" hose from the fire wall to the rear               connector, with homebrew

               reducers at each end to make the transition between 2" and               1.5".Â  I did this

               as it made routing the hose much easier.

             	
             It sounds like 1" tubing would provide more than enough             heat.

             

             I may homebrew or just use these reducers from             planeinovationsÂ  <http://www.planeinnovations.com/scat-adapters.html>             It will depend if I want to spend time or money.

             

              	  Quote: 	
		                 One other point - I view the per plans cabin heat valve               location as

               problematic.Â  On the hottest day you have hot air off the               heat muffs being

               directed back at the engine - right at the mechanical fuel               pump.Â  My fix for

               this was to install a piece of Koolmat between the               firewall cabin heat boxes

               (holes cut out for the box air exit) such that the mat               extends over the top

               of the boxes and then down over the front of the boxes.Â                The result is when

               the cabin heat valves are shut, the dumped hot air is               directed down toward

               the bottom of the cowl, and the conductive heat from the               boxes to the

               firewall is reduced.Â  This is the Koolmat product:

               http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/koolmat.php?clickkey=261602

               

             	
             I am having a hard time visualizing what you installed.Â  Are             you using the koolmat to direct the hot air down instead of             towards the engine.Â  In this case the koolmat is working as             a plenum and not insulating the fwf.

             

             Larry

             

             ====================================

             -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

             ====================================

             FORUMS -

             _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

             ====================================

             b Site -

             Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

             target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

             ====================================

             

             

             

           

	
     



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

AirMike

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:01 pm Post subject: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing - other issues

I just followed the standard plans and crushed the large scat tube to fit the space. After 5 years no problems with chafe or perforation. It is ugly, but it works. Deems' installation is obviously 1st class, but a bit of extra work.



I would say two far more important issues are : 1) the cheap aluminum air distribution boxes on the firewall supplied by Vans. I suggest using only the excellent (after market) fire resistant stainless steel steel boxes. Could save your life. 2) Also, if I were building again, I would improvise easier access to the fuel system (in the tunnel) - pump and filter - for easy servicing. Servicing the fuel filter is a real pain. Top and side access portals would facilitate servicing.

_________________
See you OSH '18
Q/B - sold.

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing - other issues

 	  AirMike wrote: 	
		  I just followed the standard plans and crushed the large scat tube to fit the space. After 5 years no problems with chafe or perforation. It is ugly, but it works. Deems' installation is obviously 1st class, but a bit of extra work.



I would say two far more important issues are : 1) the cheap aluminum air distribution boxes on the firewall supplied by Vans. I suggest using only the excellent (after market) fire resistant stainless steel steel boxes. Could save your life. 2) Also, if I were building again, I would improvise easier access to the fuel system (in the tunnel) - pump and filter - for easy servicing. Servicing the fuel filter is a real pain. Top and side access portals would facilitate servicing. 	




I did the same thing with the large scat and it works fine. Coming up on 7 years with no issues, but as Mike says, it is ugly. However, I am the only one that looks at it! ^_^

I agree with Mike's comments about the aluminum heat distribution box and tunnel access. I even thought about making a belly access panel, ala Piper, but that would introduce some other engineering issues I imagine. You will thank yourself later on if you make access to the fuel filter as easy as possible.

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:10 am Post subject: Re: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing - other issues:Fuel Filter

Hi



Agree with David's comment on the fuel filters. One of the "legacy" items from my earlier filters install was placement of fuel filters in the wing roots. I was able to install two Earl's Performance filters - one in each wing root. They are user serviceable and easily accessed simply by removing the wing root cover panel.  Now I don't have to contort myself to get at them as I would if they were in the tunnel.



Regular cleaning, especially when first flying, is a must. There can be a lot of accumulated crud when building.



I also installed an access panel on the pilot's side wall of the tunnel for easy access to the aux fuel pump.



Cheer



Les

 	  easily(at)me.com wrote: 	
		   	  AirMike wrote: 	
		  I just followed the standard plans and crushed the large scat tube to fit the space. After 5 years no problems with chafe or perforation. It is ugly, but it works. Deems' installation is obviously 1st class, but a bit of extra work.



I would say two far more important issues are : 1) the cheap aluminum air distribution boxes on the firewall supplied by Vans. I suggest using only the excellent (after market) fire resistant stainless steel steel boxes. Could save your life. 2) Also, if I were building again, I would improvise easier access to the fuel system (in the tunnel) - pump and filter - for easy servicing. Servicing the fuel filter is a real pain. Top and side access portals would facilitate servicing. 	




I did the same thing with the large scat and it works fine. Coming up on 7 years with no issues, but as Mike says, it is ugly. However, I am the only one that looks at it! ^_^

I agree with Mike's comments about the aluminum heat distribution box and tunnel access. I even thought about making a belly access panel, ala Piper, but that would introduce some other engineering issues I imagine. You will thank yourself later on if you make access to the fuel filter as easy as possible.

rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:15 pm Post subject: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing

Any pictures of the wing root filter installations please Les?

Warm regards

Patrick

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 25 Mar 2015, at 23:40, kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> wrote:

 Hi

 Agree with David's comment on the fuel filters. One of the "legacy" items from my earlier filters install was placement of fuel filters in the wing roots. I was able to install two Earl's Performance filters - one in each wing root. They are user serviceable and easily accessed simply by removing the wing root cover panel.  Now I don't have to contort myself to get at them as I would if they were in the tunnel.

 Regular cleaning, especially when first flying, is a must. There can be a lot of accumulated crud when building.

 I also installed an access panel on the pilot's side wall of the tunnel for easy access to the aux fuel pump.

 Cheer

 Les

 easily(at)me.com wrote:

> 

> AirMike wrote:

>> I just followed the standard plans and crushed the large scat tube to fit the space. After 5 years no problems with chafe or perforation. It is ugly, but it works. Deems' installation is obviously 1st class, but a bit of extra work.

>> 

>> I would say two far more important issues are : 1) the cheap aluminum air distribution boxes on the firewall supplied by Vans. I suggest using only the excellent (after market) fire resistant stainless steel steel boxes. Could save your life. 2) Also, if I were building again, I would improvise easier access to the fuel system (in the tunnel) - pump and filter - for easy servicing. Servicing the fuel filter is a real pain. Top and side access portals would facilitate servicing.

> 

> 

> I did the same thing with the large scat and it works fine. Coming up on 7 years with no issues, but as Mike says, it is ugly. However, I am the only one that looks at it! ^_^

> I agree with Mike's comments about the aluminum heat distribution box and tunnel access. I even thought about making a belly access panel, ala Piper, but that would introduce some other engineering issues I imagine. You will thank yourself later on if you make access to the fuel filter as easy as possible.

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439860#439860

LarryRosen

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Medford, NJ

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:43 pm Post subject: Rear Heat SCAT Tube Routing

Attached is a photo of my SCAT tube solution.  I made a fiberglass tube 

to go around the Andair fuel valve stem.  The tube is held in place by 2 

pipe clamps that are riveted to the tunnel.



Larry

CA_03311516264642-L.jpg

Description:

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64.25 KB

Viewed:

16133 Time(s)

_________________
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
<http>

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