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kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
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 Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:19 am Post subject: Hard Landing |
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Experienced a hard landing which damaged area of frame centering around the lower longeron at the left pilot knee position. Half a dozen related tubes damaged. One gear leg is damaged, the one where the bungie failed. The other, the bungie held but the mountings and support structure failed, go figure.
Seeking advise on repair recommendations/methods, etc.
Still dealing with FAA/NTSB. ARGH!
John Kerr
N195KF, 933 hours
[quote][b]
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:22 am Post subject: Hard Landing |
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Dang. With localized damage like this the only cure is to cut it out and replace it. (When one of our K-IV's flipped we simply straightened the bowed lower longerons and re-covered. Worked fine.) It might be possible to buy a "module" from John at Kitfox LLC, which might make the install quicker, but I'm not sure how reliable his tooling is.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 4/2/2015 9:19 AM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) wrote:
[quote] Experienced a hard landing which damaged area of frame centering around the lower longeron at the left pilot knee position. Half a dozen related tubes damaged. One gear leg is damaged, the one where the bungie failed. The other, the bungie held but the mountings and support structure failed, go figure.
Â
Seeking advise on repair recommendations/methods, etc.
Â
Still dealing with FAA/NTSB. ARGH!
Â
John Kerr
N195KF, 933 hours
[b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:27 am Post subject: Hard Landing |
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By the way, John, if you put your approximate location in your signature nearby folks that can help you will be more likely to respond. And yes, I understand the security issues.
Guy Buchanan - List moderator
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 4/2/2015 9:19 AM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) wrote:
[quote] Experienced a hard landing which damaged area of frame centering around the lower longeron at the left pilot knee position. Half a dozen related tubes damaged. One gear leg is damaged, the one where the bungie failed. The other, the bungie held but the mountings and support structure failed, go figure.
Â
Seeking advise on repair recommendations/methods, etc.
Â
Still dealing with FAA/NTSB. ARGH!
Â
John Kerr
N195KF, 933 hours
[b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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Pat Reilly
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:23 pm Post subject: Hard Landing |
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John, I had to replace bent tubing in the cluster weld area at that location twice. As Guy said, easiest way is to cut fabric away as far back as you have to go to avoid burning it, cut out the bent tubing, find the proper size tubing to sleeve inside and/or outside, and grab the torch. It isn't rocket science. Just a pain in the ass welding upside down on your back especially..... Oh ....then it's fabric covering and paint time.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan(at)cox.net (gebuchanan(at)cox.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Dang. With localized damage like this the only cure is to cut it out and replace it. (When one of our K-IV's flipped we simply straightened the bowed lower longerons and re-covered. Worked fine.) It might be possible to buy a "module" from John at Kitfox LLC, which might make the install quicker, but I'm not sure how reliable his tooling is.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 4/2/2015 9:19 AM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) wrote:
| Quote: | Experienced a hard landing which damaged area of frame centering around the lower longeron at the left pilot knee position. Half a dozen related tubes damaged. One gear leg is damaged, the one where the bungie failed. The other, the bungie held but the mountings and support structure failed, go figure.
Â
Seeking advise on repair recommendations/methods, etc.
Â
Still dealing with FAA/NTSB. ARGH!
Â
John Kerr
N195KF, 933 hours
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| Quote: |
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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lcfitt3(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:52 pm Post subject: Hard Landing |
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John,
Sorry to hear about your experience. A local guy had a similar experience and it happened again after his home brew fix. Apparently he hammered some of the tubing back to straight and there were hammer marks that I suspect reduced the strength of some of the tubing. On the second one, I helped a bit with the repair welding in some new tubing and making some gussets to strengthen the structure around the door.
Thinking what I might do: First, straighten everything the best I can to get everything in alignment. Then any tube that has a wrinkle or slight bend, I would cut out and replace, starting with the straight pieces and finishing with all the fish mouth butt welded tubes. depending on what happens when I make the first cut - things jump out of alignment showing hidden stress, I might weld up a jig to hold everything straight as I progressed through the repair.
I doubt Kitfox will be any help at all. I recall that one of our members tried to purchase a IV kit a few years ago and was essentially told that the factory had the jigs and tooling buried out back, as I recall him telling the story.
Good luck and keep us posted,
Lowell
From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net)
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2015 9:19 AM
To: kitfox-list (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Hard Landing
Experienced a hard landing which damaged area of frame centering around the lower longeron at the left pilot knee position. Half a dozen related tubes damaged. One gear leg is damaged, the one where the bungie failed. The other, the bungie held but the mountings and support structure failed, go figure.
Seeking advise on repair recommendations/methods, etc.
Still dealing with FAA/NTSB. ARGH!
John Kerr
N195KF, 933 hours
[quote]
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"'>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
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href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
[b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:54 am Post subject: Hard Landing |
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Thanks to all who have and will respond for the encouragement and suggestions. Will keep you posted on the progress.
John
From: "Patrick Reilly" <patreilly43(at)gmail.com>
To: "kitfox-list" <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2015 3:22:45 PM
Subject: Re: Hard Landing
John, I had to replace bent tubing in the cluster weld area at that location twice. As Guy said, easiest way is to cut fabric away as far back as you have to go to avoid burning it, cut out the bent tubing, find the proper size tubing to sleeve inside and/or outside, and grab the torch. It isn't rocket science. Just a pain in the ass welding upside down on your back especially..... Oh ....then it's fabric covering and paint time.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
Rockford, IL
On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Guy Buchanan <gebuchanan(at)cox.net (gebuchanan(at)cox.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Dang. With localized damage like this the only cure is to cut it out and replace it. (When one of our K-IV's flipped we simply straightened the bowed lower longerons and re-covered. Worked fine.) It might be possible to buy a "module" from John at Kitfox LLC, which might make the install quicker, but I'm not sure how reliable his tooling is.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 4/2/2015 9:19 AM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) wrote:
| Quote: | Experienced a hard landing which damaged area of frame centering around the lower longeron at the left pilot knee position. Half a dozen related tubes damaged. One gear leg is damaged, the one where the bungie failed. The other, the bungie held but the mountings and support structure failed, go figure.
Seeking advise on repair recommendations/methods, etc.
Still dealing with FAA/NTSB. ARGH!
John Kerr
N195KF, 933 hours
|
| Quote: |
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford,IL
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:00 am Post subject: Hard Landing |
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Unfortunately, in Utah I have been the go-to guy on everything kitfox for 19 years, but then there are only a handfull in the state, half of which I have help with the build.
Right now scrambling to find a welder with experience with tube fabrication.
John
From: "Guy Buchanan" <gebuchanan(at)cox.net>
To: "kitfox-list" <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2015 1:27:06 PM
Subject: Re: Hard Landing
By the way, John, if you put your approximate location in your signature nearby folks that can help you will be more likely to respond. And yes, I understand the security issues.
Guy Buchanan - List moderator
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 4/2/2015 9:19 AM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) wrote:
| Quote: | Experienced a hard landing which damaged area of frame centering around the lower longeron at the left pilot knee position. Half a dozen related tubes damaged. One gear leg is damaged, the one where the bungie failed. The other, the bungie held but the mountings and support structure failed, go figure.
Seeking advise on repair recommendations/methods, etc.
Still dealing with FAA/NTSB. ARGH!
John Kerr
N195KF, 933 hours
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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SkySteve
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Huntsville, UT
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Hard Landing |
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John,
You might want to talk with Joe Garfield (801-791-6769) at the Morgan airport. He is very good with tube and fabric. He is an A&P and has helped me and others a lot with welding. Feel free to use my name when talking with Joe.
Steve Wilson
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel |
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kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:58 am Post subject: Hard Landing |
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Thanks, that may just what I need.
John
From: "SkySteve" <Wilson(at)REinfo.org>
To: "kitfox-list" <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 10:16:45 AM
Subject: Re: Hard Landing
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "SkySteve" <Wilson(at)REinfo.org>
John,
You might want to talk with Joe Garfield (801-791-6769) at the Morgan airport. He is very good with tube and fabric. He is an A&P and has helped me and others a lot with welding. Feel free to use my name when talking with Joe.
Steve Wilson
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440242#440242
&nbs=================
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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SkySteve
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Huntsville, UT
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| Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Hard Landing |
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John, I saw your plane yesterday. It's looking real good. You really should put the Grove gear on it. It makes a world of difference. I put it on my plane and love it.
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel |
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jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 3:55 pm Post subject: Hard Landing |
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There is a significant difference in the weight of the Grove landing gear vs the original one. This was my experience...
José
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On May 2, 2015, at 9:57 AM, SkySteve <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> wrote:
John, I saw your plane yesterday. It's looking real good. You really should put the Grove gear on it. It makes a world of difference. I put it on my plane and love it.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441615#441615
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| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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SkySteve
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Huntsville, UT
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| Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Hard Landing |
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Yep. And strength, durability, stability, quality, looks, etc.
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel |
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 9:43 pm Post subject: Hard Landing |
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Personally I never liked the way the Grove gear handled on the ground. When my gear's bottomed out it's very stiff. The Grove gear always kind of wandered and the wings rocked a lot more and everything seemed "looser". I guess I always liked the more positive feel of the tube gear. I do concede, though, that the Grove gear can withstand an amazing amount of abuse. Worst case is that you bend it. Then you send it in and they bend it back for you. Very convenient.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 5/2/2015 4:54 PM, "José M. Toro" wrote:
[quote] | Quote: | --> Kitfox-List message posted by: =?utf-8?Q? "Jos=C3=A9_M._Toro" ?= <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com> (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)
There is a significant difference in the weight of the Grove landing gear vs the original one. This was my experience...
José
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On May 2, 2015, at 9:57 AM, SkySteve <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> (Wilson(at)REinfo.org) wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "SkySteve" <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> (Wilson(at)REinfo.org)
John, I saw your plane yesterday. It's looking real good. You really should put the Grove gear on it. It makes a world of difference. I put it on my plane and love it.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441615#441615
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[b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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Dick Maddux
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 4:30 am Post subject: Hard Landing |
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Or you could go with the "bush gear" as I have on my aircraft. Gear spread goes from 4 ft to 7 ft and you achieve greater stability on the ground as well as in the air on final (outrigger effect) PLUS the gear weight is about the same as the original. In my case, I weighed each of the pieces before mounting the gear as well as weighing the original gear and I actually came out a couple of lbs lighter with the "bush gear"
I am EXTREMELY happy with the "bush gear" ! It requires no maintenance (no bungees) and was easy to install. Have had it installed for a few years now.
Dick Maddux
Fox 4
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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lcfitt3(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 6:25 am Post subject: Hard Landing |
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Yes in the good old days. My guess is Grove got tired of the free bend fixes, now they have switched to 7075 T6 alloy. It is a much tougher alloy and with exactly what ramifications, who knows. There is no question, though, that the early Kitfox airframe is not real robust where the landing gear attaches. Maybe that is why the early bungee gear had such a poor reputation for folding up in ground loops. Fix the droop tip and a new gear - not nearly the challenge of a lower fuselage rebuild.
Lowell On May 2, 2015 10:45 PM, "Guy Buchanan" <gebuchanan(at)cox.net (gebuchanan(at)cox.net)> wrote:[quote] Personally I never liked the way the Grove gear handled on the ground. When my gear's bottomed out it's very stiff. The Grove gear always kind of wandered and the wings rocked a lot more and everything seemed "looser". I guess I always liked the more positive feel of the tube gear. I do concede, though, that the Grove gear can withstand an amazing amount of abuse. Worst case is that you bend it. Then you send it in and they bend it back for you. Very convenient.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 5/2/2015 4:54 PM, "José M. Toro" wrote:
| Quote: | | Quote: | --> Kitfox-List message posted by: =?utf-8?Q? "Jos=C3=A9_M._Toro" ?= <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com> (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)
There is a significant difference in the weight of the Grove landing gear vs the original one. This was my experience...
José
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On May 2, 2015, at 9:57 AM, SkySteve <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> (Wilson(at)REinfo.org) wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "SkySteve" <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> (Wilson(at)REinfo.org)
John, I saw your plane yesterday. It's looking real good. You really should put the Grove gear on it. It makes a world of difference. I put it on my plane and love it.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441615#441615
|
|
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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falcon43
Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 8:02 am Post subject: Hard Landing |
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Have not wrote in for years. Can I use my wheels on the bush gear?
Harry Cieslar, Avid Magnum, Ontario, Canada
From: Guy Buchanan (gebuchanan(at)cox.net)
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2015 1:42 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Hard Landing
Personally I never liked the way the Grove gear handled on the ground. When my gear's bottomed out it's very stiff. The Grove gear always kind of wandered and the wings rocked a lot more and everything seemed "looser". I guess I always liked the more positive feel of the tube gear. I do concede, though, that the Grove gear can withstand an amazing amount of abuse. Worst case is that you bend it. Then you send it in and they bend it back for you. Very convenient.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 5/2/2015 4:54 PM, "José M. Toro" wrote:
[quote] | Quote: | --> Kitfox-List message posted by: =?utf-8?Q? "Jos=C3=A9_M._Toro" ?= mailto:jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)
There is a significant difference in the weight of the Grove landing gear vs the original one. This was my experience...
José
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On May 2, 2015, at 9:57 AM, SkySteve mailto:Wilson(at)REinfo.org (Wilson(at)REinfo.org) wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "SkySteve" mailto:Wilson(at)REinfo.org (Wilson(at)REinfo.org)
John, I saw your plane yesterday. It's looking real good. You really should put the Grove gear on it. It makes a world of difference. I put it on my plane and love it.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441615#441615
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taildragon(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 9:39 am Post subject: Hard Landing |
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I agree with most of what has been said. I really like my Grove gear. But for those enthusiasts who want the look and feel of the classic Kitfox experience, I have unused Model 4 bungee landing gear that I put on Barnstormers. Respond direct on this list for a better deal. I also have available an unused Twin Pin Door Latch kit. Yup, it must be Spring. Time to straighten up the hangar!
Date: Sun, 3 May 2015 07:25:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Hard Landing
From: lcfitt3(at)gmail.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Yes in the good old days. My guess is Grove got tired of the free bend fixes, now they have switched to 7075 T6 alloy. It is a much tougher alloy and with exactly what ramifications, who knows. There is no question, though, that the early Kitfox airframe is not real robust where the landing gear attaches. Maybe that is why the early bungee gear had such a poor reputation for folding up in ground loops. Fix the droop tip and a new gear - not nearly the challenge of a lower fuselage rebuild.
Lowell On May 2, 2015 10:45 PM, "Guy Buchanan" <[url=mailto:gebuchanan(at)cox.net]gebuchanan(at)cox.net[/url]> wrote:
[quote] Personally I never liked the way the Grove gear handled on the ground. When my gear's bottomed out it's very stiff. The Grove gear always kind of wandered and the wings rocked a lot more and everything seemed "looser". I guess I always liked the more positive feel of the tube gear. I do concede, though, that the Grove gear can withstand an amazing amount of abuse. Worst case is that you bend it. Then you send it in and they bend it back for you. Very convenient.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 5/2/2015 4:54 PM, "José M. Toro" wrote:
| Quote: | | Quote: | --> Kitfox-List message posted by: =?utf-8?Q? "Jos=C3=A9_M._Toro" ?= [url=mailto:jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com]<jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com>[/url]
There is a significant difference in the weight of the Grove landing gear vs the original one. This was my experience...
José
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On May 2, 2015, at 9:57 AM, SkySteve [url=mailto:Wilson(at)REinfo.org]<Wilson(at)REinfo.org>[/url] wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "SkySteve" [url=mailto:Wilson(at)REinfo.org]<Wilson(at)REinfo.org>[/url]
John, I saw your plane yesterday. It's looking real good. You really should put the Grove gear on it. It makes a world of difference. I put it on my plane and love it.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
[url=http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441615#441615]http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441615#441615[/url]
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rawheels
Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Westfield, IN
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Hard Landing |
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| Dick Maddux wrote: | | I am EXTREMELY happy with the "bush gear" ! It requires no maintenance (no bungees) and was easy to install. Have had it installed for a few years now. |
I agree. I installed the Highwing LLC version of the bush gear, and it was the best modification that I have made to my Kitfox IV. Too bad they no longer produce Kitfox parts, they were a great group to deal with.
| falcon43 wrote: | | Can I use my wheels on the bush gear? |
You could with the Highwing LLC version, but as I recall you have to get new axels with the Kitfox brand version.
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Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN |
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kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 8:49 am Post subject: Hard Landing |
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To all; the lower longeron and related tubing has been repaired, spiced per FAA manual and the reassembly began in earnest this morning.
Still deciding on the gear choice. My experience with the tube gear mirrors the comments of others; all of them. The bungee failed on the right side, trashing the gear. The left side bungee held, trashing the longeron structure at the gear attach points. Guy's comments are among the few negative comments on the spring gear.
Steve's suggestion of a welder proved excellent. less than two week turnaround including shipping of the material. Thanks again.
Also, picked up a referral on someone to do the fiberglass repairs.
Will keep you posted.
John
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt3(at)gmail.com>
To: "kitfox-list" <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2015 8:25:20 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Hard Landing
Yes in the good old days. My guess is Grove got tired of the free bend fixes, now they have switched to 7075 T6 alloy. It is a much tougher alloy and with exactly what ramifications, who knows. There is no question, though, that the early Kitfox airframe is not real robust where the landing gear attaches. Maybe that is why the early bungee gear had such a poor reputation for folding up in ground loops. Fix the droop tip and a new gear - not nearly the challenge of a lower fuselage rebuild.
Lowell On May 2, 2015 10:45 PM, "Guy Buchanan" <gebuchanan(at)cox.net (gebuchanan(at)cox.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Personally I never liked the way the Grove gear handled on the ground. When my gear's bottomed out it's very stiff. The Grove gear always kind of wandered and the wings rocked a lot more and everything seemed "looser". I guess I always liked the more positive feel of the tube gear. I do concede, though, that the Grove gear can withstand an amazing amount of abuse. Worst case is that you bend it. Then you send it in and they bend it back for you. Very convenient.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 5/2/2015 4:54 PM, "José M. Toro" wrote:
| Quote: | | Quote: | --> Kitfox-List message posted by: =?utf-8?Q? "Jos=C3=A9_M._Toro" ?= <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com> (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)
There is a significant difference in the weight of the Grove landing gear vs the original one. This was my experience...
José
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On May 2, 2015, at 9:57 AM, SkySteve <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> (Wilson(at)REinfo.org) wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "SkySteve" <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> (Wilson(at)REinfo.org)
John, I saw your plane yesterday. It's looking real good. You really should put the Grove gear on it. It makes a world of difference. I put it on my plane and love it.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441615#441615
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kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 4:06 pm Post subject: Hard Landing |
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Reviewing old messages. Joe did an excellent job for me. Thanks for referral
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 3, 2015, at 10:16 AM, "SkySteve" <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> wrote:
| Quote: |
John,
You might want to talk with Joe Garfield (801-791-6769) at the Morgan airport. He is very good with tube and fabric. He is an A&P and has helped me and others a lot with welding. Feel free to use my name when talking with Joe.
Steve Wilson
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=440242#440242
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