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mp.gamble(at)talktalk.net
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 Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:01 am Post subject: Fuel Tank moved!! |
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After 4 uneventful flying seasons I have been carrying out the annual inspection prior to the 5th.
The aircraft had been garaged for 3 months with wings and tailplanes removed and the fuselage supported on dummy spars with wheeled supports.
On checking the controls a rubbing sound was evident on moving the stick fore & aft and this was traced to contact of the Pitch torque tube CS10 with the rubber hose
securing the port side Tank outlet fitting. Stb side clearance is just adequate.
This is very strange as I don’t recall any possibility of this happening during construction so a reasonable clearance must have existed then.
Has anyone else experienced this?
Can the tank have moved UP?
What is the fix?
Comments and advice please.
Mike Gamble
XS Mono #440
G-CFMP
[quote][b]
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gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:20 am Post subject: Fuel Tank moved!! |
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Mike,
It is possible that the tank will shrink a bit if the fuel is offloaded, possibly causing the outlet rubber hose to move up slightly, and contact the torque tube. This happened to me, anyway.
If tank had significant fuel in it, then it might be something else causing the problem..
Regards,
Greg
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Gamble
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 8:00 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fuel Tank moved!!
After 4 uneventful flying seasons I have been carrying out the annual inspection prior to the 5th.
The aircraft had been garaged for 3 months with wings and tailplanes removed and the fuselage supported on dummy spars with wheeled supports.
On checking the controls a rubbing sound was evident on moving the stick fore & aft and this was traced to contact of the Pitch torque tube CS10 with the rubber hose
securing the port side Tank outlet fitting. Stb side clearance is just adequate.
This is very strange as I don’t recall any possibility of this happening during construction so a reasonable clearance must have existed then.
Has anyone else experienced this?
Can the tank have moved UP?
What is the fix?
Comments and advice please.
Mike Gamble
XS Mono #440
G-CFMP
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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mp.gamble(at)talktalk.net
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:12 am Post subject: Fuel Tank moved!! |
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Thanks for your input Greg.
I had drained the tank which very possibly moved it up a bit but I would not like to think of this happening in flight.
Did you measure the clearance from your torque tube with and without fuel?
How on earth can I increase this clearance?
The manual just gives a suggested 2cm distance tank to floor.
Maybe this will generate some more response from the forum.
Mike
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Fuchs
Sent: 02 April 2015 16:19
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fuel Tank moved!!
Mike,
It is possible that the tank will shrink a bit if the fuel is offloaded, possibly causing the outlet rubber hose to move up slightly, and contact the torque tube. This happened to me, anyway.
If tank had significant fuel in it, then it might be something else causing the problem..
Regards,
Greg
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Mike Gamble
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 8:00 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Fuel Tank moved!!
After 4 uneventful flying seasons I have been carrying out the annual inspection prior to the 5th.
The aircraft had been garaged for 3 months with wings and tailplanes removed and the fuselage supported on dummy spars with wheeled supports.
On checking the controls a rubbing sound was evident on moving the stick fore & aft and this was traced to contact of the Pitch torque tube CS10 with the rubber hose
securing the port side Tank outlet fitting. Stb side clearance is just adequate.
This is very strange as I don’t recall any possibility of this happening during construction so a reasonable clearance must have existed then.
Has anyone else experienced this?
Can the tank have moved UP?
What is the fix?
Comments and advice please.
Mike Gamble
XS Mono #440
G-CFMP012345678901
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:12 am Post subject: Fuel Tank moved!! |
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Mike,
IMHO, It would be good to understand how the clearance issue happened, before committing a solution..or even whether you need one. Determining whether it was tank shrinkage rather than slippage might be the first agenda.
When I tested my tank for holes, it was filled to at least 3/4 of a tank full of fuel for about 6 months.
The tank changed shape over time, as noticed by the back side bulging out. Thus, the fuel was left in it until about a day before installation, thinking that it was best to anchor it to the aircraft in its normal operating state which could eliminate some strain from the fiberglass plies tugging at it. I did have to heat up and straighten out the back side of the tank though, or it would not fit properly into its position. A heat gun, some flat pieces of ply, and some weights were employed for that job.
The fiber-glassing went well, and the clearances were fine upon assembly. Its been many years, so I am struggling to remember the time frame, but sometime in the months that followed with the tank dry of fuel, the tank reduced in size (shrank). I could tell, because in some areas it no longer touched the plies used to strap it in. I did not quantify with measurements..just used visual observation. Clearance was as much as 1/4" or so in some areas. Then I noticed the top side of the rubber hose at the tank outlet(s) brushing up against the torque tube. Not aggressively, just lightly. It doesn't concern me much. As soon as I put fuel in, it should resume the shape it had when I strapped it in. I did put in a plastic rubbing strip to protect the paint finish on the torque tube.
I couldn't see any other way the outlet could be rubbing on the torque tube, other than it must be that it expanded when fueled and shrunk once again when the fuel was drained out (completely dry). Some day, the tank will be re-fueled, and I can see what happens for sure with this clearance. Some day, when the plane is close to being ready to fly, that is..
This may not describe your issue, but then again it might. Three months in your garage should be long enough for it to shrink. How completely did you empty your tank? I figure (guessing) the tank would take awhile to shrink, so it certainly would not happen in flight. Weeks to months probably. It would likely need to be mostly drained of fuel, to eliminate fuel vapor, which might arrest the tank from shrinking. I am completely guessing here of course, since I have not done these tests..
Tank treatment? ..My tank was shipped in late 2002. It 'should' have been treated with fluoride by then (crossing fingers).
Greg
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Gamble
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2015 10:12 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fuel Tank moved!!
Thanks for your input Greg.
I had drained the tank which very possibly moved it up a bit but I would not like to think of this happening in flight.
Did you measure the clearance from your torque tube with and without fuel?
How on earth can I increase this clearance?
The manual just gives a suggested 2cm distance tank to floor.
Maybe this will generate some more response from the forum.
Mike
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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mp.gamble(at)talktalk.net
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:00 pm Post subject: Fuel Tank moved!! |
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Greg,
Thanks for the info. What you say makes sense and I appreciate you taking the time to help me out.
I put 60 ltrs in the tank today and shall leave things alone for a while to see if we get any improvement.
I will report results .
Mike
(my tank was supplied in Jul. 99)
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Fuchs
Sent: 03 April 2015 09:11
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fuel Tank moved!!
Mike,
IMHO, It would be good to understand how the clearance issue happened, before committing a solution..or even whether you need one. Determining whether it was tank shrinkage rather than slippage might be the first agenda.
When I tested my tank for holes, it was filled to at least 3/4 of a tank full of fuel for about 6 months.
The tank changed shape over time, as noticed by the back side bulging out. Thus, the fuel was left in it until about a day before installation, thinking that it was best to anchor it to the aircraft in its normal operating state which could eliminate some strain from the fiberglass plies tugging at it. I did have to heat up and straighten out the back side of the tank though, or it would not fit properly into its position. A heat gun, some flat pieces of ply, and some weights were employed for that job.
The fiber-glassing went well, and the clearances were fine upon assembly. Its been many years, so I am struggling to remember the time frame, but sometime in the months that followed with the tank dry of fuel, the tank reduced in size (shrank). I could tell, because in some areas it no longer touched the plies used to strap it in. I did not quantify with measurements..just used visual observation. Clearance was as much as 1/4" or so in some areas. Then I noticed the top side of the rubber hose at the tank outlet(s) brushing up against the torque tube. Not aggressively, just lightly. It doesn't concern me much. As soon as I put fuel in, it should resume the shape it had when I strapped it in. I did put in a plastic rubbing strip to protect the paint finish on the torque tube.
I couldn't see any other way the outlet could be rubbing on the torque tube, other than it must be that it expanded when fueled and shrunk once again when the fuel was drained out (completely dry). Some day, the tank will be re-fueled, and I can see what happens for sure with this clearance. Some day, when the plane is close to being ready to fly, that is..
This may not describe your issue, but then again it might. Three months in your garage should be long enough for it to shrink. How completely did you empty your tank? I figure (guessing) the tank would take awhile to shrink, so it certainly would not happen in flight. Weeks to months probably. It would likely need to be mostly drained of fuel, to eliminate fuel vapor, which might arrest the tank from shrinking. I am completely guessing here of course, since I have not done these tests..
Tank treatment? ..My tank was shipped in late 2002. It 'should' have been treated with fluoride by then (crossing fingers).
Greg
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Mike Gamble
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2015 10:12 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Fuel Tank moved!!
Thanks for your input Greg.
I had drained the tank which very possibly moved it up a bit but I would not like to think of this happening in flight.
Did you measure the clearance from your torque tube with and without fuel?
How on earth can I increase this clearance?
The manual just gives a suggested 2cm distance tank to floor.
Maybe this will generate some more response from the forum.
Mike
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
01234567
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:38 am Post subject: Fuel Tank moved!! |
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According to the forum, the cutoff date for the old non-fluorinated tank seems to have been sometime around or before 2000, but it is hard to tell for sure.
Greg
Greg,
Thanks for the info. What you say makes sense and I appreciate you taking the time to help me out.
I put 60 ltrs in the tank today and shall leave things alone for a while to see if we get any improvement.
I will report results .
Mike
(my tank was supplied in Jul. 99)
[quote][b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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