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Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 7:56 am Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

I don't find it strange about the momentarily drop or  roughness.  Because the "looseness" of tolerances of these engines  -say as to compare to a Merlin - its very hard to get the mags  perfecticly aligned with each other.  There is that much 'slop' in the  gear trains.  With that in mind remember there is a process taking place in  the cylinder where the fuel/air mixture is being ignited by both mags.  If  one mag drops, yes the other takes over but the process is changed ever so  slightly, that you can't help notice it.

  

 Just recently I noticed the very different sound between two different  Merlin engines.  One shaper or 'crackly' than the other.  The  expert engineer explained one engine had been overhauled according to RR  specs while the smoother engine had a number of specialized changes such cam lob  shape, timing, plugs, etc - all done to take complete advantage of the  known dynamics in those Merlin cylinders.  This engine will most likely  make 1,000 hours BTW.

  

 For about 2 years time, I chased recurring ignition problems,  suspecting plugs, and mags (i.e. coils).  On the way to OSH one year (Why  is it always seem to happen to me on the way to or from OSH?) over Americas, GA.  after about an hour and a half airborne, the engine (M-14P) suddenly missed and  stared to run slightly different.  Well it took a young (God bless his  grease covered face.) Georgia hick of a A&P at a crop dusting outfit, to  find the problem.  My harness was breaking down.  Right then and there  I went to auto plugs and harness.  The original harness are well built and  nicely done BUT will not last forever, and will start arching out inside the  casing. 

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  In a message dated 5/29/2015 8:41:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A"    <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au>



Hi all, thanks for the on and off    list replies. Very greatly appreciated believe me, the owner has delivered the    aircraft to the mechanics and they were starting with their belief it is the    mixture setting.



He has been informed and will be starting with new    magneto coils instead now though!



I had a points spring break on one    mag once, so it killed the mag completely and I do remember an    attention-grabbing splutter and then the engine continued sounding more or    less normal (was at low power on base). Strange how one mag dropping off seems    to momentarily affect the other...





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442739#442739===============================================

_-=   e  ties  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ================================================             - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                             ===================================================



	


 [quote][b]

Ernie

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513

Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:16 am Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

Thats very interesting. The reason I asked is because a friends CJ recently had the same problem, and during diagnosis I told him in flight when the problem occurred to switch mags to see if we could isolate it to a mag and we couldn't, so I reasoned that it couldn't be ignition. He also replaced the carb, checked mag timing, valve lash. Never did find the problem, and he ended up changing engine, since he had a spare. It was really weird cause it only happened above a thousand feet and never on the ground, even if we ran it a full power for a considerable amount of time.



Ernie



On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 11:16 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>

 

 Yes, it does Ernie.Â  If you've never experienced a coil failure in one mag, I can tell you it WILL get your attention because if feels like the engine completely shuts down for one heartbeat, then picks back up again.

 

[b]

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 11:25 am Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

Ps. Dan, it was Dennis and I that was working that problem on my 52 in 2003. The problem began less than 10 hours out of the container fresh from Lithuanian overhaul. When the breaking down mag discharges it sends the charge to all the cylinders resulting in the supercharger fuel charge being burn in one giant backfire! It is an attention getter! The engine quits for a heartbeat the runs like shit on one mag... The bad one or it does not run at all when the bad mag is selected. The airborne mag check will sort that out. So go buckle up your balls and go fly. 15 + or - 5 minutes later you'll have your answer. Like I said have the T shirt x3.

You can get the T shirt too! 

Doc



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 29, 2015, at 10:16 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 Yes, it does Ernie.  If you've never experienced a coil failure in one mag, I can tell you it WILL get your attention because if feels like the engine completely shuts down for one heartbeat, then picks back up again.

 

 I was told by someone with a lot more life experiences than me that another older radial (can't remember if it was one of the small Continental's like was used on the Stearmanor Wright or Pratt)the engineers determined when the coil failed like being discussed here, the fuel charge through the supercharger (ie: fuel distribution point) is completely purged for one heartbeat causing the sensation of a complete shutdown for a few millisecondsand then recharged and the engine picks back up.  It's really weird. But I can tell you from many experiences, that's what it feels like.  Maybe someone onthe list can better define why it feels like a complete shutdown for a heartbeat.

 

 FWIW, I have been able to duplicate the problem on the ground by heating up the engine to above about 250 degrees C as read on the CHT. As Richard Goode has stated, it definitely is a heat problem with the coil which typically occurs in the first 20-30 minutes of the flight. Repeating it on the ground is more difficult. But it can be done. If you can get the coil hot enoughon the ground, the engine will start to misfire. Once THAT occurs, you can isolate the problem to the left or right mag with the mag switch.

 

 A. Dennis Savarese

 334-546-8182 (mobile)

 www.yak-52.com

 Skype - Yakguy1

 

> On 5/29/2015 8:54 AM, Ernest Martinez wrote:

> Quick question.

> 

> Wouldn't a coil problem only manifest itself on 1 side? A complete loss of 1 Mag shouldn't cause an abrupt and complete loss of power should it?

> 

> Ernie

> 

> On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 9:43 AM, migfighter42 <migfighter42(at)gmail.com <mailto:migfighter42(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

> 

>    If its the fuel pump, you should see it on the fuel pressure gauge.

> 

>    if it is the valve train, that should be a problem noticed at all

>    times, a loss of perforce irrespective of time and temperature.

> 

>    If it is always happening after a certain period of time in flight

>    everytime, its coil related. We had this exact problem a year ago,

>    took us forever to find it. Dennis and Jill finally got us on the

>    right path.

> 

>    Good luck.

> 

>    Bill

> 

> 

> 

>    Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

>    -------- Original message --------

>    From: Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com>>

>    Date: 05/29/2015 12:28 AM (GMT-06:00)

>    To: yak-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>

>    Subject: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts.

>    stops. starts.

> 

>    However..."engine cuts abruptly, goes, cuts again, goes. Mixture

>    full rich, carb heat on, didn't do it again but then these items

>    were actioned after running fine for a few seconds."

> 

>    If you went full rich, then turned on the carb heat (making the

>    mixture even more rich) that's answers you own dilemma / question.

> 

>    Change the fuel pump

> 

>    Keep 'em Flyin',

> 

>    Dan Payne

>    Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

>    (423)-544-8946 <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

> 

>    Volunteer Aero Service

>    Dallas Bay Skypark

>    1824 E Crabtree Road

>    Hixson, TN 37343

> 

>    "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

> 

> 

>    On May 29, 2015, at 1:19 AM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com

>    <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com>> wrote:

> 

>>    Ps....if you throw fuel to it mid-flight and it burst back to

>>    life...I would suspect a worn out engine driven pump...

>> 

>>    Keep 'em Flyin',

>> 

>>    Dan Payne

>>    Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

>>    (423)-544-8946 <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

>> 

>>    Volunteer Aero

>>    Dallas Bay Skypark

>>    1824 E Crabtree Road

>>    Hixson, TN 37343

>> 

>>    "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

>> 

>> 

>>    On May 29, 2015, at 1:01 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com

>>    <mailto:l129bs(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

>> 

>>>    Adjust my what?? v-a-l-v-e-s? Like consonants?

>>> 

>>>    You do many annuals? You must be â€œrich"

>>> 

>>>    Iâ€™m not â€œrichâ€, no nothing about radials, why should I, we have

>>>    guys like you that are willing to do it while we lounge by the

>>>    pool, fly, camp, hike, bike, fly some more etc.

>>>    So everyone gets what they want.

>>>    I see your company name says â€œVolunteerâ€ well, donâ€™t. Problem

>>>    for you, solved.

>>>    Shot mine, NOT bullet proof.

>>> 

>>>    Keep smiling.

>>> 

>>>    Bill Geipel

>>>    Owner, pilot, not A&P-IA

>>>    canâ€™t afford cell phone.

>>> 

>>> 

>>>    On May 29, 2015, at 1:00 PM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com

>>>    <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com>> wrote:

>>> 

>>>>    P.S.:

>>>> 

>>>>    Why don't you all adjust your valves??

>>>> 

>>>>    I do many annuals on "rich" people's airplanes who know nothing

>>>>    about Radials....

>>>> 

>>>>    The engines are reliable. The airframes are bullet proof, and

>>>>    Denis Savarese is your go to guy on 4th & 10!

>>>> 

>>>>    Keep 'em Flyin',

>>>> 

>>>>    Dan Payne

>>>>    Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

>>>>    (423)-544-8946 <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

>>>> 

>>>>    Volunteer Aero Services

>>>>    Dallas Bay Skypark

>>>>    1824 E Crabtree Road

>>>>    Hixson, TN 37343

>>>> 

>>>>    "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>>    On May 28, 2015, at 11:46 PM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com

>>>>    <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com>> wrote:

>>>> 

>>>>>    Adjust the points/ breaker felts on the mags...

>>>>> 

>>>>> 

>>>>>    Let not forget the dwell timing / distributor advance in our

>>>>>    GTOs we drove to high school...

>>>>> 

>>>>>    Keep 'em Flyin',

>>>>> 

>>>>>    Dan Payne

>>>>>    Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

>>>>>    (423)-544-8946 <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

>>>>> 

>>>>>    Volunteer Aero Service

>>>>>    Dallas Bay Skypark

>>>>>    1824 E Crabtree Road

>>>>>    Hixson, TN 37343

>>>>> 

>>>>>    "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

>>>>> 

>>>>> 

>>>>>    On May 28, 2015, at 11:03 PM, migfighter42

>>>>>    <migfighter42(at)gmail.com <mailto:migfighter42(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

>>>>> 

>>>>>>    my experience with that problem is the same as Doc mentioned.

>>>>>>    the aircraft would run fine until warmed up, normally in

>>>>>>    flight, then dramatic misses. replaced the coils in the

>>>>>>    magnetos, the problem went away.

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>    Bill

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>    Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

>>>>>>    -------- Original message --------

>>>>>>    From: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com

>>>>>>    <mailto:f16viperdoc(at)me.com>>

>>>>>>    Date: 05/28/2015 8:47 PM (GMT-06:00)

>>>>>>    To: yak-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>

>>>>>>    Subject: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts.

>>>>>>    stops. starts.

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>    

>>>>>>    <f16viperdoc(at)me.com <mailto:f16viperdoc(at)me.com>>

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>    Mag coil going bad will also do that. Typically occurs about

>>>>>>    10 to 15 minutes of the flight.

>>>>>>    Doc

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>    Sent from my iPad

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>    > On May 28, 2015, at 6:55 PM, JL2A

>>>>>>    <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au

>>>>>>    <mailto:info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au>> wrote:

>>>>>>    >

>>>>>>    > 

>>>>>>    <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au <mailto:info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au>>

>>>>>>    >

>>>>>>    > Hi all, my formation partner had a bit of engine trouble

>>>>>>    last time we flew then I took the same plane up for a shake

>>>>>>    down and got the same result -

>>>>>>    >

>>>>>>    > cruise power, 10 minutes into the flight, engine cuts

>>>>>>    abruptly, goes, cuts again, goes. Mixture full rich, carb

>>>>>>    heat on, didn't do it again but then these items were

>>>>>>    actioned after running fine for a few seconds.

>>>>>>    >

>>>>>>    > The cuts were hard, as in no power not just roughness, and

>>>>>>    only for a split second, but enough to get your attention.

>>>>>>    >

>>>>>>    > Speaking to two local CJ/Yak experts and they say it is

>>>>>>    likely the 'mid-range' mixture adjustment (I think the CJ

>>>>>>    book calls it 'cruise' mixture, same thing).

>>>>>>    >

>>>>>>    > Has anyone here experienced the same? Would be curious as

>>>>>>    to what an earth is going on, intermittent failures are the

>>>>>>    worst!

>>>>>>    >

>>>>>>    >

>>>>>>    >

>>>>>>    >

>>>>>>    > Read this topic online here:

>>>>>>    >

>>>>>>    > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442717#442717

>>>>>>    >

>>>>>>    >

>>>>>>    >

>>>>>>    > http://www.matronics.com/Navig==========================p;

>>>>>>    -===========================nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List

>>>>>>    Admin.<==========================

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> 

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>>>>>    ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

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>>>>> 

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>>>>    *

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>>>>    href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

>>>>    href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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_________________
Viperdoc

dantpayne(at)icloud.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 11:39 am Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

Doc,



Will all due respect I understand.



When I first got my 52 I did a mag check at 80 & 8...left side made it feel like I was gonna blow the jugs off. Bought a mag off Barnstormers, installed, and no more problem.



Then, I got to disassemble & "play with my old one...initially I couldn't find the problem...took it down to the local electro shop and they put it under load for me. You're right...it was the coil.



Keep 'em Flyin',



Dan Payne

Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

(423)-544-8946



Volunteer Aero Service

Dallas Bay Skypark

1824 E Crabtree Road

Hixson, TN 37343



"Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 29, 2015, at 3:25 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Ps. Dan, it was Dennis and I that was working that problem on my 52 in 2003. The problem began less than 10 hours out of the container fresh from Lithuanian overhaul. When the breaking down mag discharges it sends the charge to all the cylinders resulting in the supercharger fuel charge being burn in one giant backfire! It is an attention getter! The engine quits for a heartbeat the runs like shit on one mag... The bad one or it does not run at all when the bad mag is selected. The airborne mag check will sort that out. So go buckle up your balls and go fly. 15 + or - 5 minutes later you'll have your answer. Like I said have the T shirt x3.

 You can get the T shirt too! 

 Doc

 

 Sent from my iPad

 

> On May 29, 2015, at 10:16 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Yes, it does Ernie.  If you've never experienced a coil failure in one mag, I can tell you it WILL get your attention because if feels like the engine completely shuts down for one heartbeat, then picks back up again.

> 

> I was told by someone with a lot more life experiences than me that another older radial (can't remember if it was one of the small Continental's like was used on the Stearmanor Wright or Pratt)the engineers determined when the coil failed like being discussed here, the fuel charge through the supercharger (ie: fuel distribution point) is completely purged for one heartbeat causing the sensation of a complete shutdown for a few millisecondsand then recharged and the engine picks back up.  It's really weird. But I can tell you from many experiences, that's what it feels like.  Maybe someone onthe list can better define why it feels like a complete shutdown for a heartbeat.

> 

> FWIW, I have been able to duplicate the problem on the ground by heating up the engine to above about 250 degrees C as read on the CHT. As Richard Goode has stated, it definitely is a heat problem with the coil which typically occurs in the first 20-30 minutes of the flight. Repeating it on the ground is more difficult. But it can be done. If you can get the coil hot enoughon the ground, the engine will start to misfire. Once THAT occurs, you can isolate the problem to the left or right mag with the mag switch.

> 

> A. Dennis Savarese

> 334-546-8182 (mobile)

> www.yak-52.com

> Skype - Yakguy1

> 

>> On 5/29/2015 8:54 AM, Ernest Martinez wrote:

>> Quick question.

>> 

>> Wouldn't a coil problem only manifest itself on 1 side? A complete loss of 1 Mag shouldn't cause an abrupt and complete loss of power should it?

>> 

>> Ernie

>> 

>> On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 9:43 AM, migfighter42 <migfighter42(at)gmail.com <mailto:migfighter42(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

>> 

>>   If its the fuel pump, you should see it on the fuel pressure gauge.

>> 

>>   if it is the valve train, that should be a problem noticed at all

>>   times, a loss of perforce irrespective of time and temperature.

>> 

>>   If it is always happening after a certain period of time in flight

>>   everytime, its coil related. We had this exact problem a year ago,

>>   took us forever to find it. Dennis and Jill finally got us on the

>>   right path.

>> 

>>   Good luck.

>> 

>>   Bill

>> 

>> 

>> 

>>   Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

>>   -------- Original message --------

>>   From: Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com>>

>>   Date: 05/29/2015 12:28 AM (GMT-06:00)

>>   To: yak-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>

>>   Subject: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts.

>>   stops. starts.

>> 

>>   However..."engine cuts abruptly, goes, cuts again, goes. Mixture

>>   full rich, carb heat on, didn't do it again but then these items

>>   were actioned after running fine for a few seconds."

>> 

>>   If you went full rich, then turned on the carb heat (making the

>>   mixture even more rich) that's answers you own dilemma / question.

>> 

>>   Change the fuel pump

>> 

>>   Keep 'em Flyin',

>> 

>>   Dan Payne

>>   Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

>>   (423)-544-8946 <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

>> 

>>   Volunteer Aero Service

>>   Dallas Bay Skypark

>>   1824 E Crabtree Road

>>   Hixson, TN 37343

>> 

>>   "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

>> 

>> 

>>   On May 29, 2015, at 1:19 AM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com

>>   <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com>> wrote:

>> 

>>>   Ps....if you throw fuel to it mid-flight and it burst back to

>>>   life...I would suspect a worn out engine driven pump...

>>> 

>>>   Keep 'em Flyin',

>>> 

>>>   Dan Payne

>>>   Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

>>>   (423)-544-8946 <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

>>> 

>>>   Volunteer Aero

>>>   Dallas Bay Skypark

>>>   1824 E Crabtree Road

>>>   Hixson, TN 37343

>>> 

>>>   "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

>>> 

>>> 

>>>   On May 29, 2015, at 1:01 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com

>>>   <mailto:l129bs(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

>>> 

>>>>   Adjust my what?? v-a-l-v-e-s? Like consonants?

>>>> 

>>>>   You do many annuals? You must be â€œrich"

>>>> 

>>>>   Iâ€™m not â€œrichâ€, no nothing about radials, why should I, we have

>>>>   guys like you that are willing to do it while we lounge by the

>>>>   pool, fly, camp, hike, bike, fly some more etc.

>>>>   So everyone gets what they want.

>>>>   I see your company name says â€œVolunteerâ€ well, donâ€™t. Problem

>>>>   for you, solved.

>>>>   Shot mine, NOT bullet proof.

>>>> 

>>>>   Keep smiling.

>>>> 

>>>>   Bill Geipel

>>>>   Owner, pilot, not A&P-IA

>>>>   canâ€™t afford cell phone.

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>>   On May 29, 2015, at 1:00 PM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com

>>>>   <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com>> wrote:

>>>> 

>>>>>   P.S.:

>>>>> 

>>>>>   Why don't you all adjust your valves??

>>>>> 

>>>>>   I do many annuals on "rich" people's airplanes who know nothing

>>>>>   about Radials....

>>>>> 

>>>>>   The engines are reliable. The airframes are bullet proof, and

>>>>>   Denis Savarese is your go to guy on 4th & 10!

>>>>> 

>>>>>   Keep 'em Flyin',

>>>>> 

>>>>>   Dan Payne

>>>>>   Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

>>>>>   (423)-544-8946 <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

>>>>> 

>>>>>   Volunteer Aero Services

>>>>>   Dallas Bay Skypark

>>>>>   1824 E Crabtree Road

>>>>>   Hixson, TN 37343

>>>>> 

>>>>>   "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

>>>>> 

>>>>> 

>>>>>   On May 28, 2015, at 11:46 PM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com

>>>>>   <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com>> wrote:

>>>>> 

>>>>>>   Adjust the points/ breaker felts on the mags...

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>   Let not forget the dwell timing / distributor advance in our

>>>>>>   GTOs we drove to high school...

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>   Keep 'em Flyin',

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>   Dan Payne

>>>>>>   Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

>>>>>>   (423)-544-8946 <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>   Volunteer Aero Service

>>>>>>   Dallas Bay Skypark

>>>>>>   1824 E Crabtree Road

>>>>>>   Hixson, TN 37343

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>   "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>   On May 28, 2015, at 11:03 PM, migfighter42

>>>>>>   <migfighter42(at)gmail.com <mailto:migfighter42(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>   my experience with that problem is the same as Doc mentioned.

>>>>>>>   the aircraft would run fine until warmed up, normally in

>>>>>>>   flight, then dramatic misses. replaced the coils in the

>>>>>>>   magnetos, the problem went away.

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>   Bill

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>   Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

>>>>>>>   -------- Original message --------

>>>>>>>   From: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com

>>>>>>>   <mailto:f16viperdoc(at)me.com>>

>>>>>>>   Date: 05/28/2015 8:47 PM (GMT-06:00)

>>>>>>>   To: yak-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>

>>>>>>>   Subject: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts.

>>>>>>>   stops. starts.

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>   

>>>>>>>   <f16viperdoc(at)me.com <mailto:f16viperdoc(at)me.com>>

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>   Mag coil going bad will also do that. Typically occurs about

>>>>>>>   10 to 15 minutes of the flight.

>>>>>>>   Doc

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>   Sent from my iPad

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> On May 28, 2015, at 6:55 PM, JL2A

>>>>>>>   <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au

>>>>>>>   <mailto:info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au>> wrote:

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>   <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au <mailto:info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au>>

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> Hi all, my formation partner had a bit of engine trouble

>>>>>>>   last time we flew then I took the same plane up for a shake

>>>>>>>   down and got the same result -

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> cruise power, 10 minutes into the flight, engine cuts

>>>>>>>   abruptly, goes, cuts again, goes. Mixture full rich, carb

>>>>>>>   heat on, didn't do it again but then these items were

>>>>>>>   actioned after running fine for a few seconds.

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> The cuts were hard, as in no power not just roughness, and

>>>>>>>   only for a split second, but enough to get your attention.

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> Speaking to two local CJ/Yak experts and they say it is

>>>>>>>   likely the 'mid-range' mixture adjustment (I think the CJ

>>>>>>>   book calls it 'cruise' mixture, same thing).

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> Has anyone here experienced the same? Would be curious as

>>>>>>>   to what an earth is going on, intermittent failures are the

>>>>>>>   worst!

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> Read this topic online here:

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442717#442717

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navig==========================p;

>>>>>>>   -===========================nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List

>>>>>>>   Admin.<==========================

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>   Â¦Â·â€º~â€°ÃÂ²,ÃžÃ™ÃŠ%Â¢Â½4Ã“M4}Â§ râ€¹Â«â€°ÃªÃ§{ (ÂºÂ¸Å¾Â8^aÂ© Å Ã‹Dâ„¢Â¨Â¥ Å Ã®â„¢K Â¶

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>>>>>>   ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

>>>>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>>>>>>   //forums.matronics.com  <http://forums.matronics.com>

>>>>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>>>>>>   ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

>>>>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>   *

>>>>>   *

>>>>> 

>>>>>   href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

>>>>>   href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

>>>>>   href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

>>>>> 

>>>>>   *

>>>> 

>>>>   *

>>>> 

>>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>>>>   ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

>>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>>>>   //forums.matronics.com  <http://forums.matronics.com>

>>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>>>>   ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

>>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>>>> 

>>>>   *

>>>   *

>>> 

>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>>>   ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D  <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-ListD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>

>>>   //forums.matronics.com  <http://forums.matronics.com>

>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>>>   ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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>>> 

>>>   *

>> 

>>   *

>> 

>>   et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

>>   tp://forums.matronics.com

>>   _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

>> 

>>   *

>> 

>> 

>> *

>> 

>> 

>> *

hess737(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:21 pm Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

Just tested an M-14P equipped Nanchang today and damn if this didn't happen. You guys need to stop jinxing things!!!



Richard Hess

C 404-964-4885



 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 29, 2015, at 3:25 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Ps. Dan, it was Dennis and I that was working that problem on my 52 in 2003. The problem began less than 10 hours out of the container fresh from Lithuanian overhaul. When the breaking down mag discharges it sends the charge to all the cylinders resulting in the supercharger fuel charge being burn in one giant backfire! It is an attention getter! The engine quits for a heartbeat the runs like shit on one mag... The bad one or it does not run at all when the bad mag is selected. The airborne mag check will sort that out. So go buckle up your balls and go fly. 15 + or - 5 minutes later you'll have your answer. Like I said have the T shirt x3.

 You can get the T shirt too! 

 Doc

 

 Sent from my iPad

 

> On May 29, 2015, at 10:16 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Yes, it does Ernie.  If you've never experienced a coil failure in one mag, I can tell you it WILL get your attention because if feels like the engine completely shuts down for one heartbeat, then picks back up again.

> 

> I was told by someone with a lot more life experiences than me that another older radial (can't remember if it was one of the small Continental's like was used on the Stearmanor Wright or Pratt)the engineers determined when the coil failed like being discussed here, the fuel charge through the supercharger (ie: fuel distribution point) is completely purged for one heartbeat causing the sensation of a complete shutdown for a few millisecondsand then recharged and the engine picks back up.  It's really weird. But I can tell you from many experiences, that's what it feels like.  Maybe someone onthe list can better define why it feels like a complete shutdown for a heartbeat.

> 

> FWIW, I have been able to duplicate the problem on the ground by heating up the engine to above about 250 degrees C as read on the CHT. As Richard Goode has stated, it definitely is a heat problem with the coil which typically occurs in the first 20-30 minutes of the flight. Repeating it on the ground is more difficult. But it can be done. If you can get the coil hot enoughon the ground, the engine will start to misfire. Once THAT occurs, you can isolate the problem to the left or right mag with the mag switch.

> 

> A. Dennis Savarese

> 334-546-8182 (mobile)

> www.yak-52.com

> Skype - Yakguy1

> 

>> On 5/29/2015 8:54 AM, Ernest Martinez wrote:

>> Quick question.

>> 

>> Wouldn't a coil problem only manifest itself on 1 side? A complete loss of 1 Mag shouldn't cause an abrupt and complete loss of power should it?

>> 

>> Ernie

>> 

>> On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 9:43 AM, migfighter42 <migfighter42(at)gmail.com <mailto:migfighter42(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

>> 

>>   If its the fuel pump, you should see it on the fuel pressure gauge.

>> 

>>   if it is the valve train, that should be a problem noticed at all

>>   times, a loss of perforce irrespective of time and temperature.

>> 

>>   If it is always happening after a certain period of time in flight

>>   everytime, its coil related. We had this exact problem a year ago,

>>   took us forever to find it. Dennis and Jill finally got us on the

>>   right path.

>> 

>>   Good luck.

>> 

>>   Bill

>> 

>> 

>> 

>>   Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

>>   -------- Original message --------

>>   From: Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com>>

>>   Date: 05/29/2015 12:28 AM (GMT-06:00)

>>   To: yak-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>

>>   Subject: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts.

>>   stops. starts.

>> 

>>   However..."engine cuts abruptly, goes, cuts again, goes. Mixture

>>   full rich, carb heat on, didn't do it again but then these items

>>   were actioned after running fine for a few seconds."

>> 

>>   If you went full rich, then turned on the carb heat (making the

>>   mixture even more rich) that's answers you own dilemma / question.

>> 

>>   Change the fuel pump

>> 

>>   Keep 'em Flyin',

>> 

>>   Dan Payne

>>   Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

>>   (423)-544-8946 <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

>> 

>>   Volunteer Aero Service

>>   Dallas Bay Skypark

>>   1824 E Crabtree Road

>>   Hixson, TN 37343

>> 

>>   "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

>> 

>> 

>>   On May 29, 2015, at 1:19 AM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com

>>   <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com>> wrote:

>> 

>>>   Ps....if you throw fuel to it mid-flight and it burst back to

>>>   life...I would suspect a worn out engine driven pump...

>>> 

>>>   Keep 'em Flyin',

>>> 

>>>   Dan Payne

>>>   Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

>>>   (423)-544-8946 <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

>>> 

>>>   Volunteer Aero

>>>   Dallas Bay Skypark

>>>   1824 E Crabtree Road

>>>   Hixson, TN 37343

>>> 

>>>   "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

>>> 

>>> 

>>>   On May 29, 2015, at 1:01 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com

>>>   <mailto:l129bs(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

>>> 

>>>>   Adjust my what?? v-a-l-v-e-s? Like consonants?

>>>> 

>>>>   You do many annuals? You must be â€œrich"

>>>> 

>>>>   Iâ€™m not â€œrichâ€, no nothing about radials, why should I, we have

>>>>   guys like you that are willing to do it while we lounge by the

>>>>   pool, fly, camp, hike, bike, fly some more etc.

>>>>   So everyone gets what they want.

>>>>   I see your company name says â€œVolunteerâ€ well, donâ€™t. Problem

>>>>   for you, solved.

>>>>   Shot mine, NOT bullet proof.

>>>> 

>>>>   Keep smiling.

>>>> 

>>>>   Bill Geipel

>>>>   Owner, pilot, not A&P-IA

>>>>   canâ€™t afford cell phone.

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>>   On May 29, 2015, at 1:00 PM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com

>>>>   <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com>> wrote:

>>>> 

>>>>>   P.S.:

>>>>> 

>>>>>   Why don't you all adjust your valves??

>>>>> 

>>>>>   I do many annuals on "rich" people's airplanes who know nothing

>>>>>   about Radials....

>>>>> 

>>>>>   The engines are reliable. The airframes are bullet proof, and

>>>>>   Denis Savarese is your go to guy on 4th & 10!

>>>>> 

>>>>>   Keep 'em Flyin',

>>>>> 

>>>>>   Dan Payne

>>>>>   Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

>>>>>   (423)-544-8946 <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

>>>>> 

>>>>>   Volunteer Aero Services

>>>>>   Dallas Bay Skypark

>>>>>   1824 E Crabtree Road

>>>>>   Hixson, TN 37343

>>>>> 

>>>>>   "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

>>>>> 

>>>>> 

>>>>>   On May 28, 2015, at 11:46 PM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com

>>>>>   <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com>> wrote:

>>>>> 

>>>>>>   Adjust the points/ breaker felts on the mags...

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>   Let not forget the dwell timing / distributor advance in our

>>>>>>   GTOs we drove to high school...

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>   Keep 'em Flyin',

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>   Dan Payne

>>>>>>   Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

>>>>>>   (423)-544-8946 <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>   Volunteer Aero Service

>>>>>>   Dallas Bay Skypark

>>>>>>   1824 E Crabtree Road

>>>>>>   Hixson, TN 37343

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>   "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>   On May 28, 2015, at 11:03 PM, migfighter42

>>>>>>   <migfighter42(at)gmail.com <mailto:migfighter42(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>   my experience with that problem is the same as Doc mentioned.

>>>>>>>   the aircraft would run fine until warmed up, normally in

>>>>>>>   flight, then dramatic misses. replaced the coils in the

>>>>>>>   magnetos, the problem went away.

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>   Bill

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>   Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

>>>>>>>   -------- Original message --------

>>>>>>>   From: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com

>>>>>>>   <mailto:f16viperdoc(at)me.com>>

>>>>>>>   Date: 05/28/2015 8:47 PM (GMT-06:00)

>>>>>>>   To: yak-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>

>>>>>>>   Subject: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts.

>>>>>>>   stops. starts.

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>   

>>>>>>>   <f16viperdoc(at)me.com <mailto:f16viperdoc(at)me.com>>

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>   Mag coil going bad will also do that. Typically occurs about

>>>>>>>   10 to 15 minutes of the flight.

>>>>>>>   Doc

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>   Sent from my iPad

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> On May 28, 2015, at 6:55 PM, JL2A

>>>>>>>   <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au

>>>>>>>   <mailto:info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au>> wrote:

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>   <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au <mailto:info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au>>

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> Hi all, my formation partner had a bit of engine trouble

>>>>>>>   last time we flew then I took the same plane up for a shake

>>>>>>>   down and got the same result -

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> cruise power, 10 minutes into the flight, engine cuts

>>>>>>>   abruptly, goes, cuts again, goes. Mixture full rich, carb

>>>>>>>   heat on, didn't do it again but then these items were

>>>>>>>   actioned after running fine for a few seconds.

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> The cuts were hard, as in no power not just roughness, and

>>>>>>>   only for a split second, but enough to get your attention.

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> Speaking to two local CJ/Yak experts and they say it is

>>>>>>>   likely the 'mid-range' mixture adjustment (I think the CJ

>>>>>>>   book calls it 'cruise' mixture, same thing).

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> Has anyone here experienced the same? Would be curious as

>>>>>>>   to what an earth is going on, intermittent failures are the

>>>>>>>   worst!

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> Read this topic online here:

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442717#442717

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navig==========================p;

>>>>>>>   -===========================nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List

>>>>>>>   Admin.<==========================

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>   Â¦Â·â€º~â€°ÃÂ²,ÃžÃ™ÃŠ%Â¢Â½4Ã“M4}Â§ râ€¹Â«â€°ÃªÃ§{ (ÂºÂ¸Å¾Â8^aÂ© Å Ã‹Dâ„¢Â¨Â¥ Å Ã®â„¢K Â¶

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>>>>>>   ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

>>>>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>>>>>>   //forums.matronics.com  <http://forums.matronics.com>

>>>>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>>>>>>   ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

>>>>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>   *

>>>>>   *

>>>>> 

>>>>>   href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

>>>>>   href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

>>>>>   href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

>>>>> 

>>>>>   *

>>>> 

>>>>   *

>>>> 

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>>>>   ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

>>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>>>>   //forums.matronics.com  <http://forums.matronics.com>

>>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>>>>   ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

>>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

>>>> 

>>>>   *

>>>   *

>>> 

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>>>   ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

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>>>   //forums.matronics.com  <http://forums.matronics.com>

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>>>   ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

>>>   D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D  <http://www.matronics.com/contributionD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>

>>> 

>>>   *

>> 

>>   *

>> 

>>   et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

>>   tp://forums.matronics.com

>>   _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

>> 

>>   *

>> 

>> 

>> *

>> 

>> 

>> *

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:27 pm Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

Say what??Â  Roger you are saying that the malfunctioning mag fires ALL 9 cylinders at the same time???



I could be wrong, it's happened before, but I think that is a physical impossibility.Â  Me thinks somebody is as full of S**t as the proverbial Christmas goose. Â 

Doug

On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)>

 

 Ps. Dan, it was Dennis and I that was working that problem on my 52 in 2003. The problem began less than 10 hours out of the container fresh from Lithuanian overhaul. When the breaking down mag discharges it sends the charge to all the cylinders resulting in the supercharger fuel charge being burn in one giant backfire! It is an attention getter! The engine quits for a heartbeat the runs like shit on one mag... The bad one or it does not run at all when the bad mag is selected. The airborne mag check will sort that out. So go buckle up your balls and go fly. 15 + or - 5 minutes later you'll have your answer. Like I said have the T shirt x3.

 You can get the T shirt too!

 Doc

 

 Sent from my iPad

 

 > On May 29, 2015, at 10:16 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

 >

 > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>

 >

 > Yes, it does Ernie.Â  If you've never experienced a coil failure in one mag, I can tell you it WILL get your attention because if feels like the engine completely shuts down for one heartbeat, then picks back up again.

 >

 > I was told by someone with a lot more life experiences than me that another older radial (can't remember if it was one of the small Continental's like was used on the Stearmanor Wright or Pratt)the engineers determined when the coil failed like being discussed here, the fuel charge through the supercharger (ie: fuel distribution point) is completely purged for one heartbeat causing the sensation of a complete shutdown for a few millisecondsand then recharged and the engine picks back up.Â  It's really weird. But I can tell you from many experiences, that's what it feels like.Â  Maybe someone onthe list can better define why it feels like a complete shutdown for a heartbeat.

 >

 > FWIW, I have been able to duplicate the problem on the ground by heating up the engine to above about 250 degrees C as read on the CHT. As Richard Goode has stated, it definitely is a heat problem with the coil which typically occurs in the first 20-30 minutes of the flight. Repeating it on the ground is more difficult. But it can be done. If you can get the coil hot enoughon the ground, the engine will start to misfire. Once THAT occurs, you can isolate the problem to the left or right mag with the mag switch.

 >

 > A. Dennis Savarese

 > [url=tel:334-546-8182]334-546-8182[/url] (mobile)

 > www.yak-52.com

 > Skype - Yakguy1

 >

 >> On 5/29/2015 8:54 AM, Ernest Martinez wrote:

 >> Quick question.

 >>

 >> Wouldn't a coil problem only manifest itself on 1 side? A complete loss of 1 Mag shouldn't cause an abrupt and complete loss of power should it?

 >>

 >> Ernie

 >>

 >> On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 9:43 AM, migfighter42 <migfighter42(at)gmail.com (migfighter42(at)gmail.com) <mailto:migfighter42(at)gmail.com (migfighter42(at)gmail.com)>> wrote:

 >>

 >>Â  Â  If its the fuel pump, you should see it on the fuel pressure gauge.

 >>

 >>Â  Â  if it is the valve train, that should be a problem noticed at all

 >>Â  Â  times, a loss of perforce irrespective of time and temperature.

 >>

 >>Â  Â  If it is always happening after a certain period of time in flight

 >>Â  Â  everytime, its coil related. We had this exact problem a year ago,

 >>Â  Â  took us forever to find it. Dennis and Jill finally got us on the

 >>Â  Â  right path.

 >>

 >>Â  Â  Good luck.

 >>

 >>Â  Â  Bill

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >>Â  Â  Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

 >>Â  Â  -------- Original message --------

 >>Â  Â  From: Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com) <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com)>>

 >>Â  Â  Date: 05/29/2015 12:28 AM (GMT-06:00)

 >>Â  Â  To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>

 >>Â  Â  Subject: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts.

 >>Â  Â  stops. starts.

 >>

 >>Â  Â  However..."engine cuts abruptly, goes, cuts again, goes. Mixture

 >>Â  Â  full rich, carb heat on, didn't do it again but then these items

 >>Â  Â  were actioned after running fine for a few seconds."

 >>

 >>Â  Â  If you went full rich, then turned on the carb heat (making the

 >>Â  Â  mixture even more rich) that's answers you own dilemma / question.

 >>

 >>Â  Â  Change the fuel pump

 >>

 >>Â  Â  Keep 'em Flyin',

 >>

 >>Â  Â  Dan Payne

 >>Â  Â  Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

 >>Â  Â  [url=tel:%28423%29-544-8946](423)-544-8946[/url] <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

 >>

 >>Â  Â  Volunteer Aero Service

 >>Â  Â  Dallas Bay Skypark

 >>Â  Â  1824 E Crabtree Road

 >>Â  Â  Hixson, TN 37343

 >>

 >>Â  Â  "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

 >>

 >>

 >>Â  Â  On May 29, 2015, at 1:19 AM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com)

 >>Â  Â  <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com)>> wrote:

 >>

 >>>Â  Â  Ps....if you throw fuel to it mid-flight and it burst back to

 >>>Â  Â  life...I would suspect a worn out engine driven pump...

 >>>

 >>>Â  Â  Keep 'em Flyin',

 >>>

 >>>Â  Â  Dan Payne

 >>>Â  Â  Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

 >>>Â  Â  [url=tel:%28423%29-544-8946](423)-544-8946[/url] <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

 >>>

 >>>Â  Â  Volunteer Aero

 >>>Â  Â  Dallas Bay Skypark

 >>>Â  Â  1824 E Crabtree Road

 >>>Â  Â  Hixson, TN 37343

 >>>

 >>>Â  Â  "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>Â  Â  On May 29, 2015, at 1:01 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)

 >>>Â  Â  <mailto:l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)>> wrote:

 >>>

 >>>>Â  Â  Adjust my what?? v-a-l-v-e-s? Like consonants?

 >>>>

 >>>>Â  Â  You do many annuals? You must be â€œrich"

 >>>>

 >>>>Â  Â  Iâ€™m not â€œrichâ€, no nothing about radials, why should I, we have

 >>>>Â  Â  guys like you that are willing to do it while we lounge by the

 >>>>Â  Â  pool, fly, camp, hike, bike, fly some more etc.

 >>>>Â  Â  So everyone gets what they want.

 >>>>Â  Â  I see your company name says â€œVolunteerâ€ well, donâ€™t. Problem

 >>>>Â  Â  for you, solved.

 >>>>Â  Â  Shot mine, NOT bullet proof.

 >>>>

 >>>>Â  Â  Keep smiling.

 >>>>

 >>>>Â  Â  Bill Geipel

 >>>>Â  Â  Owner, pilot, not A&P-IA

 >>>>Â  Â  canâ€™t afford cell phone.

 >>>>

 >>>>

 >>>>Â  Â  On May 29, 2015, at 1:00 PM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com)

 >>>>Â  Â  <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com)>> wrote:

 >>>>

 >>>>>Â  Â  P.S.:

 >>>>>

 >>>>>Â  Â  Why don't you all adjust your valves??

 >>>>>

 >>>>>Â  Â  I do many annuals on "rich" people's airplanes who know nothing

 >>>>>Â  Â  about Radials....

 >>>>>

 >>>>>Â  Â  The engines are reliable. The airframes are bullet proof, and

 >>>>>Â  Â  Denis Savarese is your go to guy on 4th & 10!

 >>>>>

 >>>>>Â  Â  Keep 'em Flyin',

 >>>>>

 >>>>>Â  Â  Dan Payne

 >>>>>Â  Â  Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

 >>>>>Â  Â  [url=tel:%28423%29-544-8946](423)-544-8946[/url] <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

 >>>>>

 >>>>>Â  Â  Volunteer Aero Services

 >>>>>Â  Â  Dallas Bay Skypark

 >>>>>Â  Â  1824 E Crabtree Road

 >>>>>Â  Â  Hixson, TN 37343

 >>>>>

 >>>>>Â  Â  "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

 >>>>>

 >>>>>

 >>>>>Â  Â  On May 28, 2015, at 11:46 PM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com)

 >>>>>Â  Â  <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com)>> wrote:

 >>>>>

 >>>>>>Â  Â  Adjust the points/ breaker felts on the mags...

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>Â  Â  Let not forget the dwell timing / distributor advance in our

 >>>>>>Â  Â  GTOs we drove to high school...

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>Â  Â  Keep 'em Flyin',

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>Â  Â  Dan Payne

 >>>>>>Â  Â  Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

 >>>>>>Â  Â  [url=tel:%28423%29-544-8946](423)-544-8946[/url] <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>Â  Â  Volunteer Aero Service

 >>>>>>Â  Â  Dallas Bay Skypark

 >>>>>>Â  Â  1824 E Crabtree Road

 >>>>>>Â  Â  Hixson, TN 37343

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>Â  Â  "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>Â  Â  On May 28, 2015, at 11:03 PM, migfighter42

 >>>>>>Â  Â  <migfighter42(at)gmail.com (migfighter42(at)gmail.com) <mailto:migfighter42(at)gmail.com (migfighter42(at)gmail.com)>> wrote:

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  my experience with that problem is the same as Doc mentioned.

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  the aircraft would run fine until warmed up, normally in

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  flight, then dramatic misses. replaced the coils in the

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  magnetos, the problem went away.

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  Bill

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  -------- Original message --------

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  From: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  <mailto:f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)>>

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  Date: 05/28/2015 8:47 PM (GMT-06:00)

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  Subject: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts.

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  stops. starts.

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  --> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com) <mailto:f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)>>

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  Mag coil going bad will also do that. Typically occurs about

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  10 to 15 minutes of the flight.

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  Doc

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  Sent from my iPad

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  > On May 28, 2015, at 6:55 PM, JL2A

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  <mailto:info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>> wrote:

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  >

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  > --> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A"

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au) <mailto:info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>>

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  >

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  > Hi all, my formation partner had a bit of engine trouble

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  last time we flew then I took the same plane up for a shake

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  down and got the same result -

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  >

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  > cruise power, 10 minutes into the flight, engine cuts

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  abruptly, goes, cuts again, goes. Mixture full rich, carb

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  heat on, didn't do it again but then these items were

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  actioned after running fine for a few seconds.

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  >

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  > The cuts were hard, as in no power not just roughness, and

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  only for a split second, but enough to get your attention.

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  >

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  > Speaking to two local CJ/Yak experts and they say it is

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  likely the 'mid-range' mixture adjustment (I think the CJ

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  book calls it 'cruise' mixture, same thing).

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  >

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  > Has anyone here experienced the same? Would be curious as

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  to what an earth is going on, intermittent failures are the

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  worst!

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  >

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  >

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  >

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  >

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  > Read this topic online here:

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  >

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442717#442717

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  >

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  >

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  >

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  > http://www.matronics.com/Navig==========================p;

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  -===========================nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List

 >>>>>>>Â  Â  Admin.<==========================

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>

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 ===========

 List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 3:51 pm Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

Hey, it was you in my pit when that shit happened headed up to Moontown!

Doc



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 29, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Richard Hess <hess737(at)aol.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Just tested an M-14P equipped Nanchang today and damn if this didn't happen. You guys need to stop jinxing things!!!

 

 Richard Hess

 C 404-964-4885

 

> On May 29, 2015, at 3:25 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Ps. Dan, it was Dennis and I that was working that problem on my 52 in 2003. The problem began less than 10 hours out of the container fresh from Lithuanian overhaul. When the breaking down mag discharges it sends the charge to all the cylinders resulting in the supercharger fuel charge being burn in one giant backfire! It is an attention getter! The engine quits for a heartbeat the runs like shit on one mag... The bad one or it does not run at all when the bad mag is selected. The airborne mag check will sort that out. So go buckle up your balls and go fly. 15 + or - 5 minutes later you'll have your answer. Like I said have the T shirt x3.

> You can get the T shirt too! 

> Doc

> 

> Sent from my iPad

> 

>> On May 29, 2015, at 10:16 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Yes, it does Ernie.  If you've never experienced a coil failure in one mag, I can tell you it WILL get your attention because if feels like the engine completely shuts down for one heartbeat, then picks back up again.

>> 

>> I was told by someone with a lot more life experiences than me that another older radial (can't remember if it was one of the small Continental's like was used on the Stearmanor Wright or Pratt)the engineers determined when the coil failed like being discussed here, the fuel charge through the supercharger (ie: fuel distribution point) is completely purged for one heartbeat causing the sensation of a complete shutdown for a few millisecondsand then recharged and the engine picks back up.  It's really weird. But I can tell you from many experiences, that's what it feels like.  Maybe someone onthe list can better define why it feels like a complete shutdown for a heartbeat.

>> 

>> FWIW, I have been able to duplicate the problem on the ground by heating up the engine to above about 250 degrees C as read on the CHT. As Richard Goode has stated, it definitely is a heat problem with the coil which typically occurs in the first 20-30 minutes of the flight. Repeating it on the ground is more difficult. But it can be done. If you can get the coil hot enoughon the ground, the engine will start to misfire. Once THAT occurs, you can isolate the problem to the left or right mag with the mag switch.

>> 

>> A. Dennis Savarese

>> 334-546-8182 (mobile)

>> www.yak-52.com

>> Skype - Yakguy1

>> 

>>> On 5/29/2015 8:54 AM, Ernest Martinez wrote:

>>> Quick question.

>>> 

>>> Wouldn't a coil problem only manifest itself on 1 side? A complete loss of 1 Mag shouldn't cause an abrupt and complete loss of power should it?

>>> 

>>> Ernie

>>> 

>>> On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 9:43 AM, migfighter42 <migfighter42(at)gmail.com <mailto:migfighter42(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

>>> 

>>>  If its the fuel pump, you should see it on the fuel pressure gauge.

>>> 

>>>  if it is the valve train, that should be a problem noticed at all

>>>  times, a loss of perforce irrespective of time and temperature.

>>> 

>>>  If it is always happening after a certain period of time in flight

>>>  everytime, its coil related. We had this exact problem a year ago,

>>>  took us forever to find it. Dennis and Jill finally got us on the

>>>  right path.

>>> 

>>>  Good luck.

>>> 

>>>  Bill

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>>  Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

>>>  -------- Original message --------

>>>  From: Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com>>

>>>  Date: 05/29/2015 12:28 AM (GMT-06:00)

>>>  To: yak-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>

>>>  Subject: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts.

>>>  stops. starts.

>>> 

>>>  However..."engine cuts abruptly, goes, cuts again, goes. Mixture

>>>  full rich, carb heat on, didn't do it again but then these items

>>>  were actioned after running fine for a few seconds."

>>> 

>>>  If you went full rich, then turned on the carb heat (making the

>>>  mixture even more rich) that's answers you own dilemma / question.

>>> 

>>>  Change the fuel pump

>>> 

>>>  Keep 'em Flyin',

>>> 

>>>  Dan Payne

>>>  Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

>>>  (423)-544-8946 <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

>>> 

>>>  Volunteer Aero Service

>>>  Dallas Bay Skypark

>>>  1824 E Crabtree Road

>>>  Hixson, TN 37343

>>> 

>>>  "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

>>> 

>>> 

>>>  On May 29, 2015, at 1:19 AM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com

>>>  <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com>> wrote:

>>> 

>>>>  Ps....if you throw fuel to it mid-flight and it burst back to

>>>>  life...I would suspect a worn out engine driven pump...

>>>> 

>>>>  Keep 'em Flyin',

>>>> 

>>>>  Dan Payne

>>>>  Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

>>>>  (423)-544-8946 <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

>>>> 

>>>>  Volunteer Aero

>>>>  Dallas Bay Skypark

>>>>  1824 E Crabtree Road

>>>>  Hixson, TN 37343

>>>> 

>>>>  "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

>>>> 

>>>> 

>>>>  On May 29, 2015, at 1:01 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com

>>>>  <mailto:l129bs(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

>>>> 

>>>>>  Adjust my what?? v-a-l-v-e-s? Like consonants?

>>>>> 

>>>>>  You do many annuals? You must be â€œrich"

>>>>> 

>>>>>  Iâ€™m not â€œrichâ€, no nothing about radials, why should I, we have

>>>>>  guys like you that are willing to do it while we lounge by the

>>>>>  pool, fly, camp, hike, bike, fly some more etc.

>>>>>  So everyone gets what they want.

>>>>>  I see your company name says â€œVolunteerâ€ well, donâ€™t. Problem

>>>>>  for you, solved.

>>>>>  Shot mine, NOT bullet proof.

>>>>> 

>>>>>  Keep smiling.

>>>>> 

>>>>>  Bill Geipel

>>>>>  Owner, pilot, not A&P-IA

>>>>>  canâ€™t afford cell phone.

>>>>> 

>>>>> 

>>>>>  On May 29, 2015, at 1:00 PM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com

>>>>>  <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com>> wrote:

>>>>> 

>>>>>>  P.S.:

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>  Why don't you all adjust your valves??

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>  I do many annuals on "rich" people's airplanes who know nothing

>>>>>>  about Radials....

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>  The engines are reliable. The airframes are bullet proof, and

>>>>>>  Denis Savarese is your go to guy on 4th & 10!

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>  Keep 'em Flyin',

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>  Dan Payne

>>>>>>  Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

>>>>>>  (423)-544-8946 <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>  Volunteer Aero Services

>>>>>>  Dallas Bay Skypark

>>>>>>  1824 E Crabtree Road

>>>>>>  Hixson, TN 37343

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>  "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

>>>>>> 

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>  On May 28, 2015, at 11:46 PM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com

>>>>>>  <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com>> wrote:

>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>  Adjust the points/ breaker felts on the mags...

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>  Let not forget the dwell timing / distributor advance in our

>>>>>>>  GTOs we drove to high school...

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>  Keep 'em Flyin',

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>  Dan Payne

>>>>>>>  Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

>>>>>>>  (423)-544-8946 <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>  Volunteer Aero Service

>>>>>>>  Dallas Bay Skypark

>>>>>>>  1824 E Crabtree Road

>>>>>>>  Hixson, TN 37343

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>  "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>  On May 28, 2015, at 11:03 PM, migfighter42

>>>>>>>  <migfighter42(at)gmail.com <mailto:migfighter42(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>  my experience with that problem is the same as Doc mentioned.

>>>>>>>>  the aircraft would run fine until warmed up, normally in

>>>>>>>>  flight, then dramatic misses. replaced the coils in the

>>>>>>>>  magnetos, the problem went away.

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>  Bill

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>  Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

>>>>>>>>  -------- Original message --------

>>>>>>>>  From: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com

>>>>>>>>  <mailto:f16viperdoc(at)me.com>>

>>>>>>>>  Date: 05/28/2015 8:47 PM (GMT-06:00)

>>>>>>>>  To: yak-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>

>>>>>>>>  Subject: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts.

>>>>>>>>  stops. starts.

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>  <f16viperdoc(at)me.com <mailto:f16viperdoc(at)me.com>>

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>  Mag coil going bad will also do that. Typically occurs about

>>>>>>>>  10 to 15 minutes of the flight.

>>>>>>>>  Doc

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>  Sent from my iPad

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> On May 28, 2015, at 6:55 PM, JL2A

>>>>>>>>  <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au

>>>>>>>>  <mailto:info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au>> wrote:

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>  <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au <mailto:info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au>>

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> Hi all, my formation partner had a bit of engine trouble

>>>>>>>>  last time we flew then I took the same plane up for a shake

>>>>>>>>  down and got the same result -

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> cruise power, 10 minutes into the flight, engine cuts

>>>>>>>>  abruptly, goes, cuts again, goes. Mixture full rich, carb

>>>>>>>>  heat on, didn't do it again but then these items were

>>>>>>>>  actioned after running fine for a few seconds.

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> The cuts were hard, as in no power not just roughness, and

>>>>>>>>  only for a split second, but enough to get your attention.

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> Speaking to two local CJ/Yak experts and they say it is

>>>>>>>>  likely the 'mid-range' mixture adjustment (I think the CJ

>>>>>>>>  book calls it 'cruise' mixture, same thing).

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> Has anyone here experienced the same? Would be curious as

>>>>>>>>  to what an earth is going on, intermittent failures are the

>>>>>>>>  worst!

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> Read this topic online here:

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442717#442717

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navig==========================p;

>>>>>>>>  -===========================nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List

>>>>>>>>  Admin.<==========================

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>> 

>>>>>>>>  Â¦Â·â€º~â€°ÃÂ²,ÃžÃ™ÃŠ%Â¢Â½4Ã“M4}Â§ râ€¹Â«â€°ÃªÃ§{ (ÂºÂ¸Å¾Â8^aÂ© Å Ã‹Dâ„¢Â¨Â¥ Å Ã®â„¢K Â¶

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>>>> 

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>>> 

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>>> 

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>>> 

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>>> *

_________________
Viperdoc

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 4:00 pm Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

Doug, the mag that was bad was the left mag (when sitting in the pit). The one with the shower of sparks bypass circuit. The engineers in Lithuania are the ones that made that suggestion when we were trouble shooting. The CJ having centrifugal advance mags does not have a shower of sparks distributor cap if I am not wrong. 

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On May 29, 2015, at 3:26 PM, doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Say what??  Roger you are saying that the malfunctioning mag fires ALL 9 cylinders at the same time???



I could be wrong, it's happened before, but I think that is a physical impossibility.  Me thinks somebody is as full of S**t as the proverbial Christmas goose.  

Doug

On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)>

 

 Ps. Dan, it was Dennis and I that was working that problem on my 52 in 2003. The problem began less than 10 hours out of the container fresh from Lithuanian overhaul. When the breaking down mag discharges it sends the charge to all the cylinders resulting in the supercharger fuel charge being burn in one giant backfire! It is an attention getter! The engine quits for a heartbeat the runs like shit on one mag... The bad one or it does not run at all when the bad mag is selected. The airborne mag check will sort that out. So go buckle up your balls and go fly. 15 + or - 5 minutes later you'll have your answer. Like I said have the T shirt x3.

 You can get the T shirt too!

 Doc

 

 Sent from my iPad

 

 > On May 29, 2015, at 10:16 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

 >

 > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>

 >

 > Yes, it does Ernie.  If you've never experienced a coil failure in one mag, I can tell you it WILL get your attention because if feels like the engine completely shuts down for one heartbeat, then picks back up again.

 >

 > I was told by someone with a lot more life experiences than me that another older radial (can't remember if it was one of the small Continental's like was used on the Stearmanor Wright or Pratt)the engineers determined when the coil failed like being discussed here, the fuel charge through the supercharger (ie: fuel distribution point) is completely purged for one heartbeat causing the sensation of a complete shutdown for a few millisecondsand then recharged and the engine picks back up.  It's really weird. But I can tell you from many experiences, that's what it feels like.  Maybe someone onthe list can better define why it feels like a complete shutdown for a heartbeat.

 >

 > FWIW, I have been able to duplicate the problem on the ground by heating up the engine to above about 250 degrees C as read on the CHT. As Richard Goode has stated, it definitely is a heat problem with the coil which typically occurs in the first 20-30 minutes of the flight. Repeating it on the ground is more difficult. But it can be done. If you can get the coil hot enoughon the ground, the engine will start to misfire. Once THAT occurs, you can isolate the problem to the left or right mag with the mag switch.

 >

 > A. Dennis Savarese

 > [url=tel:334-546-8182]334-546-8182[/url] (mobile)

 > www.yak-52.com

 > Skype - Yakguy1

 >

 >> On 5/29/2015 8:54 AM, Ernest Martinez wrote:

 >> Quick question.

 >>

 >> Wouldn't a coil problem only manifest itself on 1 side? A complete loss of 1 Mag shouldn't cause an abrupt and complete loss of power should it?

 >>

 >> Ernie

 >>

 >> On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 9:43 AM, migfighter42 <migfighter42(at)gmail.com (migfighter42(at)gmail.com) <mailto:migfighter42(at)gmail.com (migfighter42(at)gmail.com)>> wrote:

 >>

 >>    If its the fuel pump, you should see it on the fuel pressure gauge.

 >>

 >>    if it is the valve train, that should be a problem noticed at all

 >>    times, a loss of perforce irrespective of time and temperature.

 >>

 >>    If it is always happening after a certain period of time in flight

 >>    everytime, its coil related. We had this exact problem a year ago,

 >>    took us forever to find it. Dennis and Jill finally got us on the

 >>    right path.

 >>

 >>    Good luck.

 >>

 >>    Bill

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >>    Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

 >>    -------- Original message --------

 >>    From: Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com) <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com)>>

 >>    Date: 05/29/2015 12:28 AM (GMT-06:00)

 >>    To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>

 >>    Subject: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts.

 >>    stops. starts.

 >>

 >>    However..."engine cuts abruptly, goes, cuts again, goes. Mixture

 >>    full rich, carb heat on, didn't do it again but then these items

 >>    were actioned after running fine for a few seconds."

 >>

 >>    If you went full rich, then turned on the carb heat (making the

 >>    mixture even more rich) that's answers you own dilemma / question.

 >>

 >>    Change the fuel pump

 >>

 >>    Keep 'em Flyin',

 >>

 >>    Dan Payne

 >>    Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

 >>    [url=tel:%28423%29-544-8946](423)-544-8946[/url] <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

 >>

 >>    Volunteer Aero Service

 >>    Dallas Bay Skypark

 >>    1824 E Crabtree Road

 >>    Hixson, TN 37343

 >>

 >>    "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

 >>

 >>

 >>    On May 29, 2015, at 1:19 AM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com)

 >>    <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com)>> wrote:

 >>

 >>>    Ps....if you throw fuel to it mid-flight and it burst back to

 >>>    life...I would suspect a worn out engine driven pump...

 >>>

 >>>    Keep 'em Flyin',

 >>>

 >>>    Dan Payne

 >>>    Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

 >>>    [url=tel:%28423%29-544-8946](423)-544-8946[/url] <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

 >>>

 >>>    Volunteer Aero

 >>>    Dallas Bay Skypark

 >>>    1824 E Crabtree Road

 >>>    Hixson, TN 37343

 >>>

 >>>    "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>    On May 29, 2015, at 1:01 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)

 >>>    <mailto:l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)>> wrote:

 >>>

 >>>>    Adjust my what?? v-a-l-v-e-s? Like consonants?

 >>>>

 >>>>    You do many annuals? You must be â€œrich"

 >>>>

 >>>>    Iâ€™m not â€œrichâ€, no nothing about radials, why should I, we have

 >>>>    guys like you that are willing to do it while we lounge by the

 >>>>    pool, fly, camp, hike, bike, fly some more etc.

 >>>>    So everyone gets what they want.

 >>>>    I see your company name says â€œVolunteerâ€ well, donâ€™t. Problem

 >>>>    for you, solved.

 >>>>    Shot mine, NOT bullet proof.

 >>>>

 >>>>    Keep smiling.

 >>>>

 >>>>    Bill Geipel

 >>>>    Owner, pilot, not A&P-IA

 >>>>    canâ€™t afford cell phone.

 >>>>

 >>>>

 >>>>    On May 29, 2015, at 1:00 PM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com)

 >>>>    <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com)>> wrote:

 >>>>

 >>>>>    P.S.:

 >>>>>

 >>>>>    Why don't you all adjust your valves??

 >>>>>

 >>>>>    I do many annuals on "rich" people's airplanes who know nothing

 >>>>>    about Radials....

 >>>>>

 >>>>>    The engines are reliable. The airframes are bullet proof, and

 >>>>>    Denis Savarese is your go to guy on 4th & 10!

 >>>>>

 >>>>>    Keep 'em Flyin',

 >>>>>

 >>>>>    Dan Payne

 >>>>>    Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

 >>>>>    [url=tel:%28423%29-544-8946](423)-544-8946[/url] <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

 >>>>>

 >>>>>    Volunteer Aero Services

 >>>>>    Dallas Bay Skypark

 >>>>>    1824 E Crabtree Road

 >>>>>    Hixson, TN 37343

 >>>>>

 >>>>>    "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

 >>>>>

 >>>>>

 >>>>>    On May 28, 2015, at 11:46 PM, Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com)

 >>>>>    <mailto:dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com)>> wrote:

 >>>>>

 >>>>>>    Adjust the points/ breaker felts on the mags...

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>    Let not forget the dwell timing / distributor advance in our

 >>>>>>    GTOs we drove to high school...

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>    Keep 'em Flyin',

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>    Dan Payne

 >>>>>>    Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

 >>>>>>    [url=tel:%28423%29-544-8946](423)-544-8946[/url] <tel:%28423%29-544-8946>

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>    Volunteer Aero Service

 >>>>>>    Dallas Bay Skypark

 >>>>>>    1824 E Crabtree Road

 >>>>>>    Hixson, TN 37343

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>    "Where Airworthiness Means Business!"

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>    On May 28, 2015, at 11:03 PM, migfighter42

 >>>>>>    <migfighter42(at)gmail.com (migfighter42(at)gmail.com) <mailto:migfighter42(at)gmail.com (migfighter42(at)gmail.com)>> wrote:

 >>>>>>

 >>>>>>>    my experience with that problem is the same as Doc mentioned.

 >>>>>>>    the aircraft would run fine until warmed up, normally in

 >>>>>>>    flight, then dramatic misses. replaced the coils in the

 >>>>>>>    magnetos, the problem went away.

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>    Bill

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>    Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

 >>>>>>>    -------- Original message --------

 >>>>>>>    From: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)

 >>>>>>>    <mailto:f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)>>

 >>>>>>>    Date: 05/28/2015 8:47 PM (GMT-06:00)

 >>>>>>>    To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>

 >>>>>>>    Subject: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts.

 >>>>>>>    stops. starts.

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>    --> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp

 >>>>>>>    <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com) <mailto:f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)>>

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>    Mag coil going bad will also do that. Typically occurs about

 >>>>>>>    10 to 15 minutes of the flight.

 >>>>>>>    Doc

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>    Sent from my iPad

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>    > On May 28, 2015, at 6:55 PM, JL2A

 >>>>>>>    <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)

 >>>>>>>    <mailto:info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>> wrote:

 >>>>>>>    >

 >>>>>>>    > --> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A"

 >>>>>>>    <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au) <mailto:info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>>

 >>>>>>>    >

 >>>>>>>    > Hi all, my formation partner had a bit of engine trouble

 >>>>>>>    last time we flew then I took the same plane up for a shake

 >>>>>>>    down and got the same result -

 >>>>>>>    >

 >>>>>>>    > cruise power, 10 minutes into the flight, engine cuts

 >>>>>>>    abruptly, goes, cuts again, goes. Mixture full rich, carb

 >>>>>>>    heat on, didn't do it again but then these items were

 >>>>>>>    actioned after running fine for a few seconds.

 >>>>>>>    >

 >>>>>>>    > The cuts were hard, as in no power not just roughness, and

 >>>>>>>    only for a split second, but enough to get your attention.

 >>>>>>>    >

 >>>>>>>    > Speaking to two local CJ/Yak experts and they say it is

 >>>>>>>    likely the 'mid-range' mixture adjustment (I think the CJ

 >>>>>>>    book calls it 'cruise' mixture, same thing).

 >>>>>>>    >

 >>>>>>>    > Has anyone here experienced the same? Would be curious as

 >>>>>>>    to what an earth is going on, intermittent failures are the

 >>>>>>>    worst!

 >>>>>>>    >

 >>>>>>>    >

 >>>>>>>    >

 >>>>>>>    >

 >>>>>>>    > Read this topic online here:

 >>>>>>>    >

 >>>>>>>    > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442717#442717

 >>>>>>>    >

 >>>>>>>    >

 >>>>>>>    >

 >>>>>>>    > http://www.matronics.com/Navig==========================p;

 >>>>>>>    -===========================nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List

 >>>>>>>    Admin.<==========================

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>

 >>>>>>>    Â¦Â·â€º~â€°ÃÂ²,ÃžÃ™ÃŠ%Â¢Â½4Ã“M4}Â§ râ€¹Â«â€°ÃªÃ§{ (ÂºÂ¸Å¾Â8^aÂ© Å Ã‹Dâ„¢Â¨Â¥ Å Ã®â„¢K Â¶

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 >>>>>>>    Ã½Ãº+Âºk&jÃšÃ¨Å¾',râ€°Â¿hÂ¸Â¬Â´*'Â¶Â¸â€ºÂºÃ˜Â¨ gâ€ºJ+^N Â§â€œ*.~Å Ã²Â¢ÃªÃ zwÂ«Â¢Ã«,ÂºÅ¡hÂ®Ã“

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 >>>>>>    ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

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 >>>>>>    ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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 >>>>>>

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 >>>>    ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 >>>>    D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 >>>>    //forums.matronics.com  <http://forums.matronics.com>

 >>>>    D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 >>>>    ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 >>>>    D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

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 >>>    ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 >>>    D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D  <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-ListD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>

 >>>    //forums.matronics.com  <http://forums.matronics.com>

 >>>    D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

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 >>>

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 >>    tp://forums.matronics.com

 >>    _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 >>

 >>    *

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 ===========

 List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

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ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

//forums.matronics.com

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



	


[b]

_________________
Viperdoc

hess737(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 4:17 pm Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

Yes it was. That's why I remember it well!!!

 



Richard Hess

President

International Jets, Inc.

Cell 404-964-4885



 

 

--

Egon

Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Australia

Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 2:25 am Post subject: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

I have had the same problem myself. New coils fixed the problem. Trying to heat the engine in excess of red line on the ground to replicate the problem is a really bad idea. Better to change both coils and not trash your engine trying to troubleshoot which coil is breaking down. Chances are that if one is playing up, then the next won't be far behind.

Cheers Egon.

JL2A

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 12:38 am Post subject: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

I'm with Egon, getting an engine anywhere near 200Â°C on the ground is very hard on them, let alone 250Â°C. Without the proper cooling airflow wrapping around the cylinders they are getting unevenly hot,  with hotspots that may exceed the temperature of where the thermocouple is placed.



I've got to ask - what are we talking about lighting the whole supercharger 'charge' on fire?



Do they mean the spark is so advanced it lights off way early and the flame front travels backwards through the induction system? Is this even physically possible at anything above starting RPM?

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 1:01 am Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

I did not see the posting suggesting overheating an engine in this fashion,

but I think that is a barking mad idea!!



Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5 3LW



Tel:  +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com

--

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 8:48 am Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

As explained by the Lithuanian engineers the massive discharge with the heat induced break down of the capacitor in the coil results in arcing in the distributor cap so that discharge flows / jumps to the next cylinder in line on the intake stroke. With the intake valve open when that aberrant discharge arrives the spark will consume the supercharger contents. The backfire is most likely through the carb when the charge is consumed. 

The pilots of the  aircraft in formation with me said they saw a sudden belch of black smoke from under the chin of my bird. I felt the hesitation as well as saw the momentary hesitation of the prop slowing. Then the engine picked back up like nothing occurred. Have had that happen twice since owning my 52. Did an airborne mag check the second time with the engine quitting on selection of the #1 mag. In both cases changing the mag coils resolved the problem.

Litaurus and Termikus are the bearers of that tidbit of info. Made sense to me then and now. 

Doc



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 31, 2015, at 3:38 AM, JL2A <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au> wrote:

 

 

 

 I'm with Egon, getting an engine anywhere near 200Â°C on the ground is very hard on them, let alone 250Â°C. Without the proper cooling airflow wrapping around the cylinders they are getting unevenly hot,  with hotspots that may exceed the temperature of where the thermocouple is placed.

 

 I've got to ask - what are we talking about lighting the whole supercharger 'charge' on fire?

 

 Do they mean the spark is so advanced it lights off way early and the flame front travels backwards through the induction system? Is this even physically at anything above starting RPM?

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442829#442829

_________________
Viperdoc

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 12:22 pm Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

Jan,

I personally do not know what is breaking down in the coil between the primary and secondary windings that causes the aberrant high voltage discharge. I do not know how the Russians build their secondary winding pies or how they insulate them. Is it an internal resistor that fails, is it the waxed cardboard insulation or the break down of the rubberized insulation that results in the current leakage. Is it internal heat build up and air bubble expansion that allows internal arching I do not know. I just know I was told there is a breakdown and that results in an aberrant spark that causes an impressive internal backfire with momentary engine pause that causes an eye opening experience. 

I personally accepted what Litaurus and Termikus said because it made sense it its simplified term. It is kind of like me telling a cancer patient suffering from intractable pain that I can put a catheter in their subarachnoid space in their spinal canal that infuses micro-milliliters of narcotic and local anesthetic into the cerebrospinal fluid with the tip of the catheter over the dermatonal  segment that corresponds to their afferent pain input into level three and seven of the Rexed Lamina  in the posterior horn of the cord. Using that combination we will be blocking nocioceptive and neuropathic pain. 

All they care about is their pain going to be better controlled and they are not going to be gorked on drugs in their last months or days. Litaurus's explanation fits the simplified answer. All I wanted was does changing the coil out stop the problem. It did in my case. I now have two spare coils sitting in my spares cabinet. 

Doc

Sent from my iPad

 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 31, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com> wrote:

 As explained by the Lithuanian engineers the massive discharge with the heat induced break down of the capacitor in the coil results in arcing in the distributor cap so that discharge flows / jumps to the next cylinder in line on the intake stroke. With the intake valve open when that aberrant discharge arrives the spark will consume the supercharger contents. The backfire is most likely through the carb when the charge is consumed. 

 The pilots of the  aircraft in formation with me said they saw a sudden belch of black smoke from under the chin of my bird. I felt the hesitation as well as saw the momentary hesitation of the prop slowing. Then the engine picked back up like nothing occurred. Have had that happen twice since owning my 52. Did an airborne mag check the second time with the engine quitting on selection of the #1 mag. In both cases changing the mag coils resolved the problem.

 Litaurus and Termikus are the bearers of that tidbit of info. Made sense to me then and now. 

 Doc

 Sent from my iPad

> On May 31, 2015, at 3:38 AM, JL2A <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> I'm with Egon, getting an engine anywhere near 200Â°C on the ground is very hard on them, let alone 250Â°C. Without the proper cooling airflow wrapping around the cylinders they are getting unevenly hot,  with hotspots that may exceed the temperature of where the thermocouple is placed.

> 

> I've got to ask - what are we talking about lighting the whole supercharger 'charge' on fire?

> 

> Do they mean the spark is so advanced it lights off way early and the flame front travels backwards through the induction system? Is this even physically at anything above starting RPM?

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442829#442829

_________________
Viperdoc

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 2:01 pm Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

Many year ago my partner and I owned a Stinson 108-1 with a Franklin engine  in it.  The engine was very tired so we bought an overhauled one and  installed.  It was not a smooth runner at all and about 10 hours it failed  on my partner right over Holy Oak, Ma.  The airplane was totaled and my  partner spent a couple days in the hospital with a cracked spine.  The FAA  investigated it, and found the valve guides were set to high on 2 exhaust  valves.  On one the rocker arms failed, causing that exhaust valve to  remain closed.  When the intake valve opened, the hot gases ignited the  mixture in the intake manifold and blew it off that cylinder and the ones next  to it.  My partner said there was just big bang and that was it.  We  found a number of other things wrong, (mixed case castings causing cross webs to  rub on cam lobes, and different types of rockers.  Plus grinding marks on  surface harden rocker parts.)  So intake detonation is real possibility.  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  In a message dated 5/31/2015 4:22:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  f16viperdoc(at)me.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp    <f16viperdoc(at)me.com>

Jan,

I personally do not know what is    breaking down in the coil between the primary and secondary windings that    causes the aberrant high voltage discharge. I do not know how the Russians    build their secondary winding pies or how they insulate them. Is it an    internal resistor that fails, is it the waxed cardboard insulation or the    break down of the rubberized insulation that results in the current leakage.    Is it internal heat build up and air bubble expansion that allows internal    arching I do not know. I just know I was told there is a breakdown and that    results in an aberrant spark that causes an impressive internal backfire with    momentary engine pause that causes an eye opening experience. 

I personally    accepted what Litaurus and Termikus said because it made sense it its    simplified term. It is kind of like me telling a cancer patient suffering from    intractable pain that I can put a catheter in their subarachnoid space in    their spinal canal that infuses micro-milliliters of narcotic and local    anesthetic into the cerebrospinal fluid with the tip of the catheter over the    dermatonal  segment that corresponds to their afferent pain input into    level three and seven of the Rexed Lamina  in the posterior horn of the    cord. Using that combination we will be blocking nocioceptive and neuropathic    pain. 

All they care about is their pain going to be better controlled and    they are not going to be gorked on drugs in their last months or days.    Litaurus's explanation fits the simplified answer. All I wanted was does    changing the coil out stop the problem. It did in my case. I now have two    spare coils sitting in my spares cabinet. 

Doc

Sent from my    iPad

 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 31, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Roger Kemp    <f16viperdoc(at)me.com> wrote:

 --> Yak-List message    posted by: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com>

 As explained    by the Lithuanian engineers the massive discharge with the heat induced break    down of the capacitor in the coil results in arcing in the distributor cap so    that discharge flows / jumps to the next cylinder in line on the intake    stroke. With the intake valve open when that aberrant discharge arrives the    spark will consume the supercharger contents. The backfire is most likely    through the carb when the charge is consumed. 

 The pilots of the     aircraft in formation with me said they saw a sudden belch of black smoke from    under the chin of my bird. I felt the hesitation as well as saw the momentary    hesitation of the prop slowing. Then the engine picked back up like nothing    occurred. Have had that happen twice since owning my 52. Did an airborne mag    check the second time with the engine quitting on selection of the #1 mag. In    both cases changing the mag coils resolved the problem.

 Litaurus and    Termikus are the bearers of that tidbit of info. Made sense to me then and    now. 

 Doc

 Sent from my iPad

> On    May 31, 2015, at 3:38 AM, JL2A <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au>    wrote:

> 

> --> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A"    <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au>

> 

> I'm with Egon,    getting an engine anywhere near 200°C on the ground is very hard on them, let    alone 250°C. Without the proper cooling airflow wrapping around the cylinders    they are getting unevenly hot,  with hotspots that may exceed the    temperature of where the thermocouple is placed.

> 

> I've    got to ask - what are we talking about lighting the whole supercharger    'charge' on fire?

> 

> Do they mean the spark is so    advanced it lights off way early and the flame front travels backwards through    the induction system? Is this even physically at anything above starting    RPM?

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this    topic online here:

> 

>    http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442829#442829

  ========================e  ties  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ================================================             - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                             ===================================================

 [quote][b]

JL2A

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

Well there you go. It can do it, learn something new everyday.



Amazing these iron curtain engines keep running after such a wayward combustion event. The Franklin story is more what I'd expect to happen!

Ernie

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 4:49 pm Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

Last time my engine coughed like that I had a sphincter protrusion which caused a post dermal effluent eviction.

Ernie

On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Jon Blake <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

[quote]Doc, does that spinal infusion come with a little umbrella and slice of lime?  JB

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)> wrote:

--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)>

Jan,

I personally do not know what is breaking down in the coil between the primary and secondary windings that causes the aberrant high voltage discharge. I do not know how the Russians build their secondary winding pies or how they insulate them. Is it an internal resistor that fails, is it the waxed cardboard insulation or the break down of the rubberized insulation that results in the current leakage. Is it internal heat build up and air bubble expansion that allows internal arching I do not know. I just know I was told there is a breakdown and that results in an aberrant spark that causes an impressive internal backfire with momentary engine pause that causes an eye opening experience. 

I personally accepted what Litaurus and Termikus said because it made sense it its simplified term. It is kind of like me telling a cancer patient suffering from intractable pain that I can put a catheter in their subarachnoid space in their spinal canal that infuses micro-milliliters of narcotic and local anesthetic into the cerebrospinal fluid with the tip of the catheter over the dermatonalÂ  segment that corresponds to their afferent pain input into level three and seven of the Rexed LaminaÂ  in the posterior horn of the cord. Using that combination we will be blocking nocioceptive and neuropathic pain. 

All they care about is their pain going to be better controlled and they are not going to be gorked on drugs in their last months or days. Litaurus's explanation fits the simplified answer. All I wanted was does changing the coil out stop the problem. It did in my case. I now have two spare coils sitting in my spares cabinet. 

Doc

Sent from my iPad

 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 31, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)> wrote:

 --> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)>

 As explained by the Lithuanian engineers the massive discharge with the heat induced break down of the capacitor in the coil results in arcing in the distributor cap so that discharge flows / jumps to the next cylinder in line on the intake stroke. With the intake valve open when that aberrant discharge arrives the spark will consume the supercharger contents. The backfire is most likely through the carb when the charge is consumed. 

 The pilots of theÂ  aircraft in formation with me said they saw a sudden belch of black smoke from under the chin of my bird. I felt the hesitation as well as saw the momentary hesitation of the prop slowing. Then the engine picked back up like nothing occurred. Have had that happen twice since owning my 52. Did an airborne mag check the second time with the engine quitting on selection of the #1 mag. In both cases changing the mag coils resolved the problem.

 Litaurus and Termikus are the bearers of that tidbit of info. Made sense to me then and now. 

 Doc

 Sent from my iPad

> On May 31, 2015, at 3:38 AM, JL2A <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)> wrote:

> 

> --> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A" <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>

> 

> I'm with Egon, getting an engine anywhere near 200Â°C on the ground is very hard on them, let alone 250Â°C. Without the proper cooling airflow wrapping around the cylinders they are getting unevenly hot,Â  with hotspots that may exceed the temperature of where the thermocouple is placed.

> 

> I've got to ask - what are we talking about lighting the whole supercharger 'charge' on fire?

> 

> Do they mean the spark is so advanced it lights off way early and the flame front travels backwards through the induction system? Is this even physically at anything above starting RPM?

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442829#442829

&gttor?Yak-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  - MATÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â p://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.===================

[b]

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 5:09 pm Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

Simply stated you soiled yourself a little bit! 

Doc

Sent from my iPad

On May 31, 2015, at 7:48 PM, Ernest Martinez <erniel29(at)gmail.com (erniel29(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Last time my engine coughed like that I had a sphincter protrusion which caused a post dermal effluent eviction.

Ernie

On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Jon Blake <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Doc, does that spinal infusion come with a little umbrella and slice of lime?  JB

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)> wrote:

--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)>

Jan,

I personally do not know what is breaking down in the coil between the primary and secondary windings that causes the aberrant high voltage discharge. I do not know how the Russians build their secondary winding pies or how they insulate them. Is it an internal resistor that fails, is it the waxed cardboard insulation or the break down of the rubberized insulation that results in the current leakage. Is it internal heat build up and air bubble expansion that allows internal arching I do not know. I just know I was told there is a breakdown and that results in an aberrant spark that causes an impressive internal backfire with momentary engine pause that causes an eye opening experience. 

I personally accepted what Litaurus and Termikus said because it made sense it its simplified term. It is kind of like me telling a cancer patient suffering from intractable pain that I can put a catheter in their subarachnoid space in their spinal canal that infuses micro-milliliters of narcotic and local anesthetic into the cerebrospinal fluid with the tip of the catheter over the dermatonalÃ‚  segment that corresponds to their afferent pain input into level three and seven of the Rexed LaminaÃ‚  in the posterior horn of the cord. Using that combination we will be blocking nocioceptive and neuropathic pain. 

All they care about is their pain going to be better controlled and they are not going to be gorked on drugs in their last months or days. Litaurus's explanation fits the simplified answer. All I wanted was does changing the coil out stop the problem. It did in my case. I now have two spare coils sitting in my spares cabinet. 

Doc

Sent from my iPad

 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 31, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)> wrote:

 --> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)>

 As explained by the Lithuanian engineers the massive discharge with the heat induced break down of the capacitor in the coil results in arcing in the distributor cap so that discharge flows / jumps to the next cylinder in line on the intake stroke. With the intake valve open when that aberrant discharge arrives the spark will consume the supercharger contents. The backfire is most likely through the carb when the charge is consumed. 

 The pilots of theÃ‚  aircraft in formation with me said they saw a sudden belch of black smoke from under the chin of my bird. I felt the hesitation as well as saw the momentary hesitation of the prop slowing. Then the engine picked back up like nothing occurred. Have had that happen twice since owning my 52. Did an airborne mag check the second time with the engine quitting on selection of the #1 mag. In both cases changing the mag coils resolved the problem.

 Litaurus and Termikus are the bearers of that tidbit of info. Made sense to me then and now. 

 Doc

 Sent from my iPad

> On May 31, 2015, at 3:38 AM, JL2A <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)> wrote:

> 

> --> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A" <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>

> 

> I'm with Egon, getting an engine anywhere near 200Ã‚Â°C on the ground is very hard on them, let alone 250Ã‚Â°C. Without the proper cooling airflow wrapping around the cylinders they are getting unevenly hot,Ã‚  with hotspots that may exceed the temperature of where the thermocouple is placed.

> 

> I've got to ask - what are we talking about lighting the whole supercharger 'charge' on fire?

> 

> Do they mean the spark is so advanced it lights off way early and the flame front travels backwards through the induction system? Is this even physically at anything above starting RPM?

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442829#442829

tor?Yak-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚  - MATÃ‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ p://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.===================

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Viperdoc

Ernie

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513

Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 7:44 pm Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

Uh.....Yes.....



On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)> wrote:

[quote]Simply stated you soiled yourself a little bit!Â 

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On May 31, 2015, at 7:48 PM, Ernest Martinez <erniel29(at)gmail.com (erniel29(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Last time my engine coughed like that I had a sphincter protrusion which caused a post dermal effluent eviction.



Ernie





	


[b]

Ernie

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:11 am Post subject: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

WRT the comment "A break down between the primary and secondary winding of a coil will never cause a high voltage discharge." Â Â  	




I'm not asking for another page of an explanation but....

If the primary of a transformer i.e. coil... is energized AND the primary winding fails, i.e opens....then the field will collapse onto the secondary and you WILL have a high voltage discharge.

I am not commenting on the rest of this thread, or the problem being discussed herewith.

Ernie



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