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Matt Dralle
Site Admin

Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 25858
Location: Livermore CA USA

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:25 am Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.



I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.



I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.



-

Matt Dralle



RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"

http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log

http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log

http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel

Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!



RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"

http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log

Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!



Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!

Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore

Airport.  Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions.  Archives too!

For entertainment purposes only.  http://klvk.matronics.com

_________________
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator

rossmickey(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:59 am Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

Matt,



You are "lucky" that they will even consider repairing it.  In my rebuild of

by 6A, I thought my GX-60 was on the blink and found out that nobody could

repair it.  I did talk to one seller of used avionic who said he used RC

Avionic in Minneapolis to repair the unrepairable.  It turned out my GX-60

was fine so I never followed up. You can try.  The number I was given was

1-800-383-0281 and talk with Gene.



Ross N9PT



--

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:03 am Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

On 06/17/2015 02:12 PM, Matt Dralle wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.


	


I hear ya, but realistically what choice is there?  They pretty much

have a monopoly on gear that will interface with a modern EFIS system.



Val Avionics offers COM and NAV solutions that will "talk EFIS", but

that's about it.



Avidyne offers a WAAS approach certified GPS solution, which is just as

outrageously priced as the new Garmin stuff.  For anything even

approaching a cost that most of us mere mortals can afford, the only

options are used Garmin 430s or 480s.



There are more options in the transponder market, such as Trig and King,

and plenty of ADS-B solutions it seems.



-Dj



-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

n233ee(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:11 am Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

Matt, I wonder if that attitude only resides in the panel mount division?  My experience with their portable devices has been satisfactory to good..

Earl 





On Jun 17, 2015, at 13:12, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)>



In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.



I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.



I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.



-

Matt Dralle



RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"

http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log

http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log

http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel

Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!



RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"

http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log

Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!



Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!

Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore

Airport.  Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions.  Archives too!

For entertainment purposes only.  http://klvk.matronics.com

http://www.matronics.com/Navigato====================================================;       - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -





[b]

stein(at)steinair.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:13 am Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

This doesn't sound right. Sounds to me like someone just didn't want to deal

with you (and it likely wasn't Garmin in this case).  I don't know what or

how you handled yourself, but sometimes you'll get more with honey than with

vinegar - or perhaps the person you spoke with perhaps was slightly

mis-informed.



To be blunt, the lenses should be readily available (at least they were last

time we got some). I'm sorry they aren't a $4 piece of plexi (there is some

fancy schmancy coatings on them and such), but the GTX lens is around $26

and I think the SL lens around $65.



My recommendation would be to calm down a bit, sit back and take a breath

before indicting Garmin in their entirety based on a conversation with one

person.



Not defending anyone or indicting or flaming anyone, but your experience

just sounds like we don't have the "whole story".....might I humbly suggest

that before blasting this to every list you manage that you perhaps speak to

someone else first (or maybe even Garmin directly)?



Cheers,

Stein 





--

handainc(at)madisoncounty
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:18 am Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

Matt - 



What program do you use for your builderâ€™s log? 



Unfortunately, your experience that has generally been my experience, although David Clark has provided exceptional service (dog chewed up my favorite headset), and iCom stood behind their little comm radio quite well and efficiently.  I will be very cautious at choosing Garmin stuff for my project. 



M. Haught 

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jun 17, 2015, at 1:12 PM, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.

 

 I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.

 

 I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.

 

 -

 Matt Dralle

 

 RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"

 http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log

 http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log

 http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel

 Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!

 

 RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"

 http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log

 Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!

 

 Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!

 Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore

 Airport.  Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions.  Archives too!

 For entertainment purposes only.  http://klvk.matronics.com

rv7a.builder(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:28 am Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

I wonder if someone like Stark Avionics could middleman the part much cheaper? Just a thought. John Robinson

        From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 11:12 AM

 Subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)>

In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.

I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.

I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.

-

Matt Dralle

RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"

http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log

http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log

http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel

Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!

RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"

http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log

Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!

Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!

Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore

Airport.  Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions.  Archives too!

For entertainment purposes only.  http://klvk.matronics.com=   --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-L --> http://f=             - List Contribution Web Site                      &nbs="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.mat=====================

 [quote][b]

fedico94(at)mchsi.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:35 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

My eperience with the G3X system in my RV9A is consistent with policy of Garmin.  bought GN430W, 6 months later they cam e out with GTN750.  Software for maintiaing G3X for IFR is one thousand dollars per year.  The GPS from Jeppensen is another $500/yr.

Had the G3X off out of spec on altimeter check at avionics shop for IFR recertification by +-20 feet in 1k to 5k altitude.  The GSU73 (computer brain)had to be removed and sent back to Garmin for correction with flat rate repair of $500. Very competent avionics shop tried to make harness and use laptop to correct.



GOOD--solid state/glass avionics are more dependable and less repair problem than my vacuum instruments.  Repair is simplified, once the business model progresses, there is no further need for avionic shops.  Plug and play ala Dynon/Advanced along with local FBO removal and service at central location means any FBO becomes an avionics shop.   Every 2 years remove just the computer send in for test and certification at same cost that avionics shop would be paid. MY equipment was seviced within 7 days.  Local FBO only needs to do test for integrity of pitot and static plumbing with reinstall. 

 

BAD--you are at their mercy for software.  Software upgrade for G3X should probably be about 150 to 300 dollars per year compared to tablet versions.

They will stop supporting hardware at unspecified intervals requring purchase of new hardware.  This improves their bottom line when they are so inclined.

Base price for servicing can go up without an independent shop to compete.  Company gets the all the money and cuts out pesky middlemen (who require recurrent training and have varying degree of competency).  



Right now I could do $20,000 in panel rebuild/upgrade but in 4 years from now I may not have a 3rd class medical or I may not be around and the technology changes so radically that what you buy today is obsolete/unsupported in a short space of time.  Some companies in this area last only a few short years.

MGL is great but will they be around ?  Dynon has good software prices but then you need an "activation" fee of around 300 to 500 dollars.  In short they all have an angle but the cost will be the same.  Look at the marketing angle of smart phones.  Better yet look at Bede aviation using iPads for instrument panel.  What you have in your cockpit today at $5k from Garmin (G3X) could be replaced with one $800 dollar tablet in a few short years, all the while the FAA piddles along with NextGen.  



Robert Federhofer 

 



---

handainc(at)madisoncounty
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:13 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

Good analysis - this is exactly why I am going with an iPad with 

ForeFlight set into a panel mount, and likely staying with steam gauges, 

as my instrument flying days are over.  When I get to my "keeper" 

project, I might chuck the steam gauges if there are programs affordable 

programs available using an iPad as base for EFIS , but for now, steam 

gauges and ForeFlight on a panel mount iPad.



M. Haught



On 6/17/2015 3:33 PM, fedico94(at)mchsi.com wrote:

[quote] 



 My eperience with the G3X system in my RV9A is consistent with policy of Garmin.  bought GN430W, 6 months later they cam e out with GTN750.  Software for maintiaing G3X for IFR is one thousand dollars per year.  The GPS from Jeppensen is another $500/yr.

 Had the G3X off out of spec on altimeter check at avionics shop for IFR recertification by +-20 feet in 1k to 5k altitude.  The GSU73 (computer brain)had to be removed and sent back to Garmin for correction with flat rate repair of $500. Very competent avionics shop tried to make harness and use laptop to correct.



 GOOD--solid state/glass avionics are more dependable and less repair problem than my vacuum instruments.  Repair is simplified, once the business model progresses, there is no further need for avionic shops.  Plug and play ala Dynon/Advanced along with local FBO removal and service at central location means any FBO becomes an avionics shop.   Every 2 years remove just the computer send in for test and certification at same cost that avionics shop would be paid. MY equipment was seviced within 7 days.  Local FBO only needs to do test for integrity of pitot and static plumbing with reinstall.

   

 BAD--you are at their mercy for software.  Software upgrade for G3X should probably be about 150 to 300 dollars per year compared to tablet versions.

 They will stop supporting hardware at unspecified intervals requring purchase of new hardware.  This improves their bottom line when they are so inclined.

 Base price for servicing can go up without an independent shop to compete.  Company gets the all the money and cuts out pesky middlemen (who require recurrent training and have varying degree of competency).



 Right now I could do $20,000 in panel rebuild/upgrade but in 4 years from now I may not have a 3rd class medical or I may not be around and the technology changes so radically that what you buy today is obsolete/unsupported in a short space of time.  Some companies in this area last only a few short years.

 MGL is great but will they be around ?  Dynon has good software prices but then you need an "activation" fee of around 300 to 500 dollars.  In short they all have an angle but the cost will be the same.  Look at the marketing angle of smart phones.  Better yet look at Bede aviation using iPads for instrument panel.  What you have in your cockpit today at $5k from Garmin (G3X) could be replaced with one $800 dollar tablet in a few short years, all the while the FAA piddles along with NextGen.



 Robert Federhofer

   



 ---

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:35 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

Good Evening Marvin (if I may use you first name).

  

 I totally agree that steam gauges are more than adequate for keeping an  airplane under control, but as of today, the glass stuff is CHEAPER!

  

 It will be quite a shock if you try to find good serviceable gyroscopes,  let alone brand new ones.

  

 Low cost means using glass.

  

 Happy Skies,

  

 Old Bob

  

  In a message dated 6/17/2015 4:14:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  handainc(at)madisoncounty.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    AeroElectric-List message posted by: "H. Marvin Haught Jr. "    <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net>



Good analysis - this is exactly why    I am going with an iPad with 

ForeFlight set into a panel mount, and likely    staying with steam gauges, 

as my instrument flying days are over.     When I get to my "keeper" 

project, I might chuck the steam gauges if there    are programs affordable 

programs available using an iPad as base for EFIS    , but for now, steam 

gauges and ForeFlight on a panel mount    iPad.



M. Haught



On 6/17/2015 3:33 PM, fedico94(at)mchsi.com    wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:    fedico94(at)mchsi.com



 My eperience with the G3X system in my RV9A    is consistent with policy of Garmin.  bought GN430W, 6 months later they    cam e out with GTN750.  Software for maintiaing G3X for IFR is one    thousand dollars per year.  The GPS from Jeppensen is another    $500/yr.

 Had the G3X off out of spec on altimeter check at avionics    shop for IFR recertification by +-20 feet in 1k to 5k altitude.  The    GSU73 (computer brain)had to be removed and sent back to Garmin for correction    with flat rate repair of $500. Very competent avionics shop tried to make    harness and use laptop to correct.



 GOOD--solid state/glass    avionics are more dependable and less repair problem than my vacuum    instruments.  Repair is simplified, once the business model progresses,    there is no further need for avionic shops.  Plug and play ala    Dynon/Advanced along with local FBO removal and service at central location    means any FBO becomes an avionics shop.   Every 2 years remove just    the computer send in for test and certification at same cost that avionics    shop would be paid. MY equipment was seviced within 7 days.  Local FBO    only needs to do test for integrity of pitot and static plumbing with    reinstall.

   

 BAD--you are at their mercy for    software.  Software upgrade for G3X should probably be about 150 to 300    dollars per year compared to tablet versions.

 They will stop    supporting hardware at unspecified intervals requring purchase of new    hardware.  This improves their bottom line when they are so    inclined.

 Base price for servicing can go up without an independent    shop to compete.  Company gets the all the money and cuts out pesky    middlemen (who require recurrent training and have varying degree of    competency).



 Right now I could do $20,000 in panel    rebuild/upgrade but in 4 years from now I may not have a 3rd class medical or    I may not be around and the technology changes so radically that what you buy    today is obsolete/unsupported in a short space of time.  Some companies    in this area last only a few short years.

 MGL is great but will they    be around ?  Dynon has good software prices but then you need an    "activation" fee of around 300 to 500 dollars.  In short they all have an    angle but the cost will be the same.  Look at the marketing angle of    smart phones.  Better yet look at Bede aviation using iPads for    instrument panel.  What you have in your cockpit today at $5k from Garmin    (G3X) could be replaced with one $800 dollar tablet in a few short years, all    the while the FAA piddles along with NextGen.



 Robert    Federhofer

   



 ----- Original Message    -----

 From: "rv7a.builder" <rv7a.builder(at)yahoo.com>

 To:    aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:27:16    PM

 Subject: Re: Reconsider Garmin    Purchases



 I wonder if someone like Stark Avionics could    middleman the part much cheaper? Just a thought. John Robinson

            From: Matt Dralle    <dralle(at)matronics.com>

   To:    aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

   Sent: Wednesday, June 17,    2015 11:12 AM

   Subject: Reconsider    Garmin Purchases

     

 --> AeroElectric-List    message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>



 In    the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of    both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just    order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125    on the RV-6.



 I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order    the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you    hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a    "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is    $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly,    criminal behavior.



 I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin    products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers    this way. Unacceptable.



 -

 Matt Dralle



    RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"

 http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's    Complete RV-8 Construction Log

 http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap -    Landing Mishap Rebuild Log

 http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's    RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel

 Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now    Flying!



 RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"

    http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log

 Status: 300+    Hours - Full Flyer Mode!



 Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC    Stream!

 Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the    Livermore

 Airport.  Includes both Tower and Ground    transmissions.  Archives too!

 For entertainment purposes    only.  http://klvk.matronics.com

      -

 S -

   -

               -Matt Dralle, List    Admin.






	




---

This    email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus  ================================================= Use   utilities  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ================================================             - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                             ===================================================



	


 [quote][b]

Matt Dralle
Site Admin

Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 25858
Location: Livermore CA USA

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:41 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics shops and received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a single vendor. I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told that the parts are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same avionics dealers call the Garmin parts department they are told they are not allowed to order those parts. So, something is definitely not quite lining up here. I guess I apologize to the community for venting my frustration with this process, but this really shouldn't be this difficult. I will follow up with more information on this debacle as it hopefully progresses. 



Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for the GTX-327 is 470-00034-00.



Matt

At 11:12 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.



I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.



I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.



-

Matt Dralle




	


-

Matt Dralle



RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"

http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log

http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log

http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel

Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!



RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"

http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log

Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!



Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!

Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore

Airport.  Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions.  Archives too!

For entertainment purposes only.  http://klvk.matronics.com

_________________
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator

skywagon

Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 184

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:43 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

Matt,



I read your frustration. . .

My contacts in the past with Garmin directly couldn't have gone better.

Suggestion. . Call and ask for the tech support debt./guru for the product 

that are using.  Don't bother with Parts nor Customer service.

Nicely vent, on what your experience has been and the frustration it makes 

for a customer and venting of course is not good for Garmin.  I strongly 

suspect that the person you are talking to will send you the parts at n/c 

especially if he believes that you will know how to make the parts swap.

Keep us tuned in on the results.

Dave



---

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1925
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

Is it feasible to repair the plastic lens?  I had a bad scratch on my canopy and used an acrylic scratch removal kit that contains 3 steps of abrasive.  Now no one can tell that the canopy was ever scratched.

_________________
Joe Gores

skywagon

Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 184

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:26 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

I have also heard that certain brands of toothpaste are a good scratch 

remover.  All of them take a lot of wrist grease. . .

Dave

____________________________________________________

---

ARGOLDMAN(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:30 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

Additional possibilities-- find a bad unit and cannibalize it.

  

 If not in a certified aircraft, make your own lens out of plexi ---- or  live with the scratch

  

 Rich

  

  In a message dated 6/17/2015 6:12:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  fransew(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253"    <fransew(at)gmail.com>



Is it feasible to repair the plastic    lens?  I had a bad scratch on my canopy and used an acrylic scratch    removal kit that contains 3 steps of abrasive.  Now no one can tell that    the canopy was ever scratched.



--------

Joe    Gores





Read this topic online    here:



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 [quote][b]

donvansanten(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:52 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

Matti am not familiar with the avionics shop you mentioned. I do know that Garmin will only sell parts to Garmin Authorized Installers. There are a bunch of shops that are FAA approved and yet they can not buy Garmin parts or do mandatory upgrades. In the future the first question to ask any av shop is if they are Garmin and FAA authorized installers. If yes they will never have a problem buying any Garmin part. 

 I went round and round with three shops when my G480 needed a mandatory firmware upgrade. All three shops sell Garmin but they are not Garmin authorized installers. Garmin would not send them the firmware. They td me that same story about the factory does that work. I called Garmin and was given a list of installers that could/would do the work.

 There are many bogus avionics dealers out there selling Garmin devices. The problem is they can't buy parts to repair them. On Jun 17, 2015 3:48 PM, "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net (skywagon(at)charter.net)> wrote:[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net (skywagon(at)charter.net)>

 

 Matt,

 

 I read your frustration. . .

 My contacts in the past with Garmin directly couldn't have gone better.

 Suggestion. . Call and ask for the tech support debt./guru for the product that are using.Â  Don't bother with Parts nor Customer service.

 Nicely vent, on what your experience has been and the frustration it makes for a customer and venting of course is not good for Garmin.Â  I strongly suspect that the person you are talking to will send you the parts at n/c especially if he believes that you will know how to make the parts swap.

 Keep us tuned in on the results.

 Dave

 

 ---

rd2(at)dejazzd.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:20 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

I'll second David Lloyd's experience with Garmin. I had 2 or 3 similar cases in the past needing - and not finding - a Garmin part. Parts and Cust. support could talk but not help; however when I talked to tech support to people who sounded knowledgeable and after I succeeded in coming across like being able to install the part myself, they sent it at n/c. Even sent me an email later asking how it was working.

Rumen

---- David Lloyd <skywagon(at)charter.net> wrote: 



=============




Matt,



I read your frustration. . .

My contacts in the past with Garmin directly couldn't have gone better.

Suggestion. . Call and ask for the tech support debt./guru for the product 

that are using.  Don't bother with Parts nor Customer service.

Nicely vent, on what your experience has been and the frustration it makes 

for a customer and venting of course is not good for Garmin.  I strongly 

suspect that the person you are talking to will send you the parts at n/c 

especially if he believes that you will know how to make the parts swap.

Keep us tuned in on the results.

Dave



---

handainc(at)madisoncounty
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:19 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

I have been â€œcollectingâ€ what appears to be serviceable units for several years and have a couple of boxes of stuff, all that look good, including 4 or 5 gyros.  Initially, glass may be lower cost, but the software fees and subscription costs quickly add up.  



Marv 



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Jun 17, 2015, at 4:33 PM, BobsV35B(at)aol.com (BobsV35B(at)aol.com) wrote:

     Good Evening Marvin (if I may use you first name).

  

 I totally agree that steam gauges are more than adequate for keeping an  airplane under control, but as of today, the glass stuff is CHEAPER!

  

 It will be quite a shock if you try to find good serviceable gyroscopes,  let alone brand new ones.

  

 Low cost means using glass.

  

 Happy Skies,

  

 Old Bob

  

  In a message dated 6/17/2015 4:14:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  handainc(at)madisoncounty.net (handainc(at)madisoncounty.net) writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    AeroElectric-List message posted by: "H. Marvin Haught Jr. "    <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net (handainc(at)madisoncounty.net)>Good analysis - this is exactly why    I am going with an iPad with ForeFlight set into a panel mount, and likely    staying with steam gauges, as my instrument flying days are over.     When I get to my "keeper" project, I might chuck the steam gauges if there    are programs affordable programs available using an iPad as base for EFIS    , but for now, steam gauges and ForeFlight on a panel mount    iPad.M. HaughtOn 6/17/2015 3:33 PM, fedico94(at)mchsi.com (fedico94(at)mchsi.com)    wrote:> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:    fedico94(at)mchsi.com (fedico94(at)mchsi.com)>> My eperience with the G3X system in my RV9A    is consistent with policy of Garmin.  bought GN430W, 6 months later they    cam e out with GTN750.  Software for maintiaing G3X for IFR is one    thousand dollars per year.  The GPS from Jeppensen is another    $500/yr.> Had the G3X off out of spec on altimeter check at avionics    shop for IFR recertification by +-20 feet in 1k to 5k altitude.  The    GSU73 (computer brain)had to be removed and sent back to Garmin for correction    with flat rate repair of $500. Very competent avionics shop tried to make    harness and use laptop to correct.>> GOOD--solid state/glass    avionics are more dependable and less repair problem than my vacuum    instruments.  Repair is simplified, once the business model progresses,    there is no further need for avionic shops.  Plug and play ala    Dynon/Advanced along with local FBO removal and service at central location    means any FBO becomes an avionics shop.   Every 2 years remove just    the computer send in for test and certification at same cost that avionics    shop would be paid. MY equipment was seviced within 7 days.  Local FBO    only needs to do test for integrity of pitot and static plumbing with    reinstall.>   > BAD--you are at their mercy for    software.  Software upgrade for G3X should probably be about 150 to 300    dollars per year compared to tablet versions.> They will stop    supporting hardware at unspecified intervals requring purchase of new    hardware.  This improves their bottom line when they are so    inclined.> Base price for servicing can go up without an independent    shop to compete.  Company gets the all the money and cuts out pesky    middlemen (who require recurrent training and have varying degree of    competency).>> Right now I could do $20,000 in panel    rebuild/upgrade but in 4 years from now I may not have a 3rd class medical or    I may not be around and the technology changes so radically that what you buy    today is obsolete/unsupported in a short space of time.  Some companies    in this area last only a few short years.> MGL is great but will they    be around ?  Dynon has good software prices but then you need an    "activation" fee of around 300 to 500 dollars.  In short they all have an    angle but the cost will be the same.  Look at the marketing angle of    smart phones.  Better yet look at Bede aviation using iPads for    instrument panel.  What you have in your cockpit today at $5k from Garmin    (G3X) could be replaced with one $800 dollar tablet in a few short years, all    the while the FAA piddles along with NextGen.>> Robert    Federhofer>   >> ----- Original Message    -----> From: "rv7a.builder" <rv7a.builder(at)yahoo.com (rv7a.builder(at)yahoo.com)>> To:    aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:27:16    PM> Subject: Re: Reconsider Garmin    Purchases>> I wonder if someone like Stark Avionics could    middleman the part much cheaper? Just a thought. John Robinson>            From: Matt Dralle    <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)>>   To:    aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)>   Sent: Wednesday, June 17,    2015 11:12 AM>   Subject: Reconsider    Garmin Purchases>     > --> AeroElectric-List    message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)>>> In    the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of    both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just    order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125    on the RV-6.>> I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order    the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you    hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a    "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is    $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly,    criminal behavior.>> I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin    products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers    this way. Unacceptable.>> -> Matt Dralle>>    RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's    Complete RV-8 Construction Log> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap -    Landing Mishap Rebuild Log> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's    RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now    Flying!>> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer">    http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log> Status: 300+    Hours - Full Flyer Mode!>> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC    Stream!> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the    Livermore> Airport.  Includes both Tower and Ground    transmissions.  Archives too!> For entertainment purposes    only.  http://klvk.matronics.com>>>      -> S ->   ->               -Matt Dralle, List    Admin.>>>>>>>>>>---This    email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus  ======================== Use   utilities  Day  =======================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  =======================             - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                             = 	


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larkrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:31 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

Matt, is it possible to buff out the scratches?Â  Lots of car head lamp covers and aircraft covers can be restored.

Rick

#40956

Southampton, Ont

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 5:38 PM, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)>

 Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics shops and received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a single vendor. I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told that the parts are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same avionics dealers call the Garmin parts department they are told they are not allowed to order those parts. So, something is definitely not quite lining up here. I guess I apologize to the community for venting my frustration with this process, but this really shouldn't be this difficult. I will follow up with more information on this debacle as it hopefully progresses.

 Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for the GTX-327 is 470-00034-00.

 Matt

 At 11:12 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:

 >In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.

 >

 >I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.

 >

 >I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.

 >

 >-

 >Matt Dralle

 >

 -

 Matt Dralle

 RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"

 http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log

 http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log

 http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel

 Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!

 RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"

 http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log

 Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!

 Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!

 Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore

 Airport.Â  Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions.Â  Archives too!

 For entertainment purposes only.Â  http://klvk.matronics.com

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argoldman(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:38 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases

Nice thing about Dynon skyview After purchase all future software is free. There is a one time 500$ fee for some mapping stuff. If you want it (I think there is a 90 day free trial.

Maps/charts/plates  vfr/ifr kept current are about 100$ per year......quite a de

Rich



Sent from my iPhone



On Jun 17, 2015, at 8:17 PM, "H. Marvin Haught" <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net (handainc(at)madisoncounty.net)> wrote:

[quote]I have been â€œcollectingâ€ what appears to be serviceable units for several years and have a couple of boxes of stuff, all that look good, including 4 or 5 gyros.  Initially, glass may be lower cost, but the software fees and subscription costs quickly add up.  



Marv 



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Jun 17, 2015, at 4:33 PM, BobsV35B(at)aol.com (BobsV35B(at)aol.com) wrote:

     Good Evening Marvin (if I may use you first name).

  

 I totally agree that steam gauges are more than adequate for keeping an  airplane under control, but as of today, the glass stuff is CHEAPER!

  

 It will be quite a shock if you try to find good serviceable gyroscopes,  let alone brand new ones.

  

 Low cost means using glass.

  

 Happy Skies,

  

 Old Bob

  

  In a message dated 6/17/2015 4:14:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  handainc(at)madisoncounty.net (handainc(at)madisoncounty.net) writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    AeroElectric-List message posted by: "H. Marvin Haught Jr. "    <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net (handainc(at)madisoncounty.net)>Good analysis - this is exactly why    I am going with an iPad with ForeFlight set into a panel mount, and likely    staying with steam gauges, as my instrument flying days are over.     When I get to my "keeper" project, I might chuck the steam gauges if there    are programs affordable programs available using an iPad as base for EFIS    , but for now, steam gauges and ForeFlight on a panel mount    iPad.M. HaughtOn 6/17/2015 3:33 PM, fedico94(at)mchsi.com (fedico94(at)mchsi.com)    wrote:> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:    fedico94(at)mchsi.com (fedico94(at)mchsi.com)>> My eperience with the G3X system in my RV9A    is consistent with policy of Garmin.  bought GN430W, 6 months later they    cam e out with GTN750.  Software for maintiaing G3X for IFR is one    thousand dollars per year.  The GPS from Jeppensen is another    $500/yr.> Had the G3X off out of spec on altimeter check at avionics    shop for IFR recertification by +-20 feet in 1k to 5k altitude.  The    GSU73 (computer brain)had to be removed and sent back to Garmin for correction    with flat rate repair of $500. Very competent avionics shop tried to make    harness and use laptop to correct.>> GOOD--solid state/glass    avionics are more dependable and less repair problem than my vacuum    instruments.  Repair is simplified, once the business model progresses,    there is no further need for avionic shops.  Plug and play ala    Dynon/Advanced along with local FBO removal and service at central location    means any FBO becomes an avionics shop.   Every 2 years remove just    the computer send in for test and certification at same cost that avionics    shop would be paid. MY equipment was seviced within 7 days.  Local FBO    only needs to do test for integrity of pitot and static plumbing with    reinstall.>   > BAD--you are at their mercy for    software.  Software upgrade for G3X should probably be about 150 to 300    dollars per year compared to tablet versions.> They will stop    supporting hardware at unspecified intervals requring purchase of new    hardware.  This improves their bottom line when they are so    inclined.> Base price for servicing can go up without an independent    shop to compete.  Company gets the all the money and cuts out pesky    middlemen (who require recurrent training and have varying degree of    competency).>> Right now I could do $20,000 in panel    rebuild/upgrade but in 4 years from now I may not have a 3rd class medical or    I may not be around and the technology changes so radically that what you buy    today is obsolete/unsupported in a short space of time.  Some companies    in this area last only a few short years.> MGL is great but will they    be around ?  Dynon has good software prices but then you need an    "activation" fee of around 300 to 500 dollars.  In short they all have an    angle but the cost will be the same.  Look at the marketing angle of    smart phones.  Better yet look at Bede aviation using iPads for    instrument panel.  What you have in your cockpit today at $5k from Garmin    (G3X) could be replaced with one $800 dollar tablet in a few short years, all    the while the FAA piddles along with NextGen.>> Robert    Federhofer>   >> ----- Original Message    -----> From: "rv7a.builder" <rv7a.builder(at)yahoo.com (rv7a.builder(at)yahoo.com)>> To:    aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:27:16    PM> Subject: Re: Reconsider Garmin    Purchases>> I wonder if someone like Stark Avionics could    middleman the part much cheaper? Just a thought. John Robinson>            From: Matt Dralle    <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)>>   To:    aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)>   Sent: Wednesday, June 17,    2015 11:12 AM>   Subject: Reconsider    Garmin Purchases>     > --> AeroElectric-List    message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)>>> In    the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of    both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just    order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125    on the RV-6.>> I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order    the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you    hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a    "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is    $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly,    criminal behavior.>> I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin    products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers    this way. Unacceptable.>> -> Matt Dralle>>    RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's    Complete RV-8 Construction Log> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap -    Landing Mishap Rebuild Log> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's    RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel> Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now    Flying!>> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer">    http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log> Status: 300+    Hours - Full Flyer Mode!>> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC    Stream!> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the    Livermore> Airport.  Includes both Tower and Ground    transmissions.  Archives too!> For entertainment purposes    only.  http://klvk.matronics.com>>>      -> S ->   ->               -Matt Dralle, List    Admin.>>>>>>>>>>---This    email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus  ======================== Use   utilities  Day  =======================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  =======================             - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                             = 	


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