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Matt Dralle
Site Admin
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 25627
Location: Livermore CA USA
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 Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:13 am Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
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In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.
I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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stein(at)steinair.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:16 am Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
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This doesn't sound right. Sounds to me like someone just didn't want to deal
with you (and it likely wasn't Garmin in this case). I don't know what or
how you handled yourself, but sometimes you'll get more with honey than with
vinegar - or perhaps the person you spoke with perhaps was slightly
mis-informed.
To be blunt, the lenses should be readily available (at least they were last
time we got some). I'm sorry they aren't a $4 piece of plexi (there is some
fancy schmancy coatings on them and such), but the GTX lens is around $26
and I think the SL lens around $65.
My recommendation would be to calm down a bit, sit back and take a breath
before indicting Garmin in their entirety based on a conversation with one
person.
Not defending anyone or indicting or flaming anyone, but your experience
just sounds like we don't have the "whole story".....might I humbly suggest
that before blasting this to every list you manage that you perhaps speak to
someone else first (or maybe even Garmin directly)?
Cheers,
Stein
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jjessen01
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:48 am Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
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Yep. I got the same message for a $0.50 part for my SL-30. I just wanted the part. It can be replaced without opening the unit. Amazing arrogance.
| Quote: | On Jun 17, 2015, at 11:10 AM, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> wrote:
In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.
I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
|
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deanpichon(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:26 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
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A year ago, Ireplaced the lens on my SL-60. Garmin sold it to me for $20 or so. In May, I learned that after June 30, they will no longer service the SL-60and a number ofother SL products (-50, -60, -70). I begrudgingly sent my(working) radio to Garmin and paid $550 for a flat rate repair. I hope this(expensive) step gives me a few more years before my radiobecomes worthless. It is very frustrating that Garmin will no longer work on it and no one else can.
| Quote: | Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 11:10:36 -0700
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
From: dralle(at)matronics.com
Subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.
I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
<=====================
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| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Matt Dralle
Site Admin
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 25627
Location: Livermore CA USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:38 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
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Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics shops and received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a single vendor. I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told that the parts are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same avionics dealers call the Garmin parts department they are told they are not allowed to order those parts. So, something is definitely not quite lining up here. I guess I apologize to the community for venting my frustration with this process, but this really shouldn't be this difficult. I will follow up with more information on this debacle as it hopefully progresses.
Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for the GTX-327 is 470-00034-00.
Matt
At 11:10 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
| Quote: | In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.
I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
-
Matt Dralle
|
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
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_________________
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator |
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acepilot(at)bloomer.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:00 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
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I'm kind of going through the same thing with Wag Aero here in Wisconsin. I need replacement landing gear springs, but all they sell is a "kit" with the springs AND gear leg blanks. I do NOT intend to build a whole new landing gear...my legs are fine...just the srpings are shot. What a CROCK when a company will not sell replacement parts for "complete assemblies" they sell. Chaps my a$$ (ie, $300 just to get a set of springs)...
Ace
On 6/17/2015 6:10 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: | Quote: | | Quote: | --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> (dralle(at)matronics.com)
In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.
I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
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[img]cid:part1.03080908.05080507(at)bloomer.net[/img]
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HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:59 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
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Matt,
No apology required or warranted, the only way suppliers will learn to treat their customers decently and to get their own house in order if that's the problem here, is to broadcast this kind of outrageous policy to the entire customer community. Maybe an abrupt drop in sales will get their attention. I for one just eliminated the G3X from consideration for my future panel upgrade unless this kind of BS ceases.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 1286 hours.
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com>
To: "RV-List" <rv-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:36:32 PM
Subject: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics shops and received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a single vendor. I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told that the parts are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same avionics dealers call the Garmin parts department they are told they are not allowed to order those parts. So, something is definitely not quite lining up here. I guess I apologize to the community for venting my frustration with this process, but this really shouldn't be this difficult. I will follow up with more information on this debacle as it hopefully progresses.
Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for the GTX-327 is 470-00034-00.
Matt
At 11:10 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
| Quote: | In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.
I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
-
Matt Dralle
|
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. h  =
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:00 am Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
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I see no reason for an apology, and I'm glad you posted your experience. I've heard the exact same story (outrageous flat-rate fees for *any* repair, even a 'checkout') about Garmin for many years from many different owners. I've even experienced it myself, with Garmin wanting around $150 to replace the $4 backup battery in my GPS III Pilot portable. When I cornered a Garmin rep about it at a major flyin, he offered to give me a 'deal' at $70 if I sent it to his attention after the flyin. And the portable isn't even a 'certified' device.
BTW, I'd like to thank Matt for keeping these lists up and running and avoiding the ugliness of censorship, which is rampant on the VAF forum. For those who don't follow it closely, Matt's recent thread on the Garmin service subject didn't last a day before it was deleted (can't have one of your advertisers called out in public, can you.....). I sometimes go for much longer than I should without donating to Matt, and incidents like that remind me why I should donate every year.
Charlie
On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)>
Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics shops and received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a single vendor. I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told that the parts are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same avionics dealers call the Garmin parts department they are told they are not allowed to order those parts. So, something is definitely not quite lining up here. I guess I apologize to the community for venting my frustration with this process, but this really shouldn't be this difficult. I will follow up with more information on this debacle as it hopefully progresses.
Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for the GTX-327 is 470-00034-00.
Matt
At 11:10 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
>In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.
>
>I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
>
>I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
>
>
>-
>Matt Dralle
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
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ist" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
[b]
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Bob Collins
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:58 am Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
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Just to put in my plug for the local guy.
When I first read Matt’s post, my thought was, “didn’t buy it from Stein.” Which is why I was also interested in Stein’s response.
Remember, this is a guy who took a personal bath a few years ago when the alternative was a big company was going to screw his customers.
So this is just a reminder to support those shops that have a history of supporting the RV community, especially those who ARE in the RV community. It makes a big difference.
Glad all of this worked out.
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 5:59 PM
To: RV-List
Subject: Re: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
Matt,
No apology required or warranted, the only way suppliers will learn to treat their customers decently and to get their own house in order if that's the problem here, is to broadcast this kind of outrageous policy to the entire customer community. Maybe an abrupt drop in sales will get their attention. I for one just eliminated the G3X from consideration for my future panel upgrade unless this kind of BS ceases.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 1286 hours.
From: "Matt Dralle" <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)>
To: "RV-List" <rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:36:32 PM
Subject: Re: Reconsider Garmin Purchases
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com (dralle(at)matronics.com)>
Before making my original post, I had contacted two different Avionics shops and received the exact same story, so I didn't base my findings on a single vendor. I have subsequently contacted Garmin directly and was told that the parts are in fact orderable by dealers. But, when those same avionics dealers call the Garmin parts department they are told they are not allowed to order those parts. So, something is definitely not quite lining up here. I guess I apologize to the community for venting my frustration with this process, but this really shouldn't be this difficult. I will follow up with more information on this debacle as it hopefully progresses.
Btw, the lens part number for the SL-30 is 308-3201-42 and the lens for the GTX-327 is 470-00034-00.
Matt
At 11:10 AM 6/17/2015 Wednesday, Matt Dralle wrote:
| Quote: | In the rebuild of my RV-8 recently, I managed to get a scratch in the lens of both the Garmin SL-30 and the Garmin GTX-327. No biggie, I thought, I'll just order up a replacement and stick them in, much like I did on the King KX-125 on the RV-6.
I called up Pacific Coast Avionics today to order the parts and was told the following: Garmin will not sell the lens. Yup, you hear that right. My only option is to return both units to Garmin for a "factory repair" and the MINIMUM charge will be $535 for EACH unit! That is $1070 to replace two $4 pieces of plastic! That is simply outrageous! Frankly, criminal behavior.
I will NOT be buying ANY future Garmin products. I refuse to do business with a company that treats their customers this way. Unacceptable.
-
Matt Dralle
|
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 182+ Hours TTSN - Version 2.0 Now Flying!
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 300+ Hours - Full Flyer Mode!
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. h =
| Quote: | | < - The RV-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
01234567
[quote][b]
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Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
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vanremog(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:48 am Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
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I'd like to pipe up here and defend Matt as well. If we don't identify these issues, then we can't effect change. There are phases in the process of resolve issues. Near the top of the list is initial outrage at the injustice of a particular action.
Matt strikes me as a smart responsible individual and his outrage is understandable. If we are going to get a large corporation to rethink their strategy then we too need to stand up as say we're mad as hell and are not gong t take this anymore. Let Garmin know that there are consequences to their actions.
-GV
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acepilot(at)bloomer.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:51 pm Post subject: Reconsider Garmin Purchases |
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I've also been successful with Wag Aero for replacement landing gear springs for my Corben. Their complete "kit" of gear leg blanks and springs is $307. I just got an email from them today and can get just what I need (the SPRINGS ONLY) for $49.50 each...so $100 vs $307. Another win getting the grease (concession) applied to the squeaky wheel (ME!)...
Ace
On 6/18/2015 3:47 PM, vanremog(at)aol.com (vanremog(at)aol.com) wrote: [quote] I'd like to pipe up here and defend Matt as well. If we don't identify these issues, then we can't effect change. There are phases in the process of resolve issues. Near the top of the list is initial outrage at the injustice of a particular action.
Matt strikes me as a smart responsible individual and his outrage is understandable. If we are going to get a large corporation to rethink their strategy then we too need to stand up as say we're mad as hell and are not gong t take this anymore. Let Garmin know that there are consequences to their actions.
-GV
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