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iPad in the Cockpit

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bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:59 am Post subject: iPad in the Cockpit

6/18/2015



Hello Marvin Haught, You wrote: “.... I am going with an iPad with 

ForeFlight  set into a panel mount......”



On a normally warm yesterday my iPad mini 2 with WingX Pro 7, held in 

cockpit space by a Ram mount, gave up and said words to the effect: "I am 

suffering from heat exhaustion and will have to rest for a while."



Maybe one should rethink making a panel mounted iPad a critical piece of 

flight instrumentation.



OC



'O C' Baker says "The best investment you can make is the effort to gather 

and understand information."



===========================================================




<_handainc(at)madisoncounty.net_ (mailto:handainc(at)madisoncounty.net) >



Good  analysis - this is exactly why I am going with an iPad with

ForeFlight  set into a panel mount, and likely staying with steam gauges,



as my  instrument flying days are over.  When I get to my "keeper"

project, I might chuck the steam gauges if there are programs  affordable



programs available using an iPad as base for EFIS , but for  now, steam

gauges and ForeFlight on a panel mount iPad.



M.  Haught

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:30 am Post subject: iPad in the Cockpit

On 06/18/2015 08:57 AM, Owen Baker  wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 On a normally warm yesterday my iPad mini 2 with WingX Pro 7, held in

 cockpit space by a Ram mount, gave up and said words to the effect: "I

 am suffering from heat exhaustion and will have to rest for a while."

 

 Maybe one should rethink making a panel mounted iPad a critical piece of

 flight instrumentation.


	




On the flip side of that, I have an iPad 2 running WingX mounted on the

panel of my Glastar using a RAM mount, and have had no issues in using

it, going on 4 years now.



Likely my high wing helps to block some of the sun from hitting the iPad

directly.  It would also be easy enough to add a cooling fan much like

we do with other panel mounted avionics.



For a VFR aircraft, do you really need more than an airspeed indicator

to make a safe landing?  I would not consider the iPad a critical piece

of flight instrumentation even if it were the only thing on the panel

other than an airspeed indicator and maybe an RPM gauge.



My half cents, fwiw,



-Dj



-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:18 am Post subject: iPad in the Cockpit

 Heck, I'll take it one step further....

For a VFR aircraft, I personally think you should be able to make a safe

landing with NO instruments, including an airspeed indicator.

I've been teaching one of the kids to land lately and I often only

give them engine gauges to go off of, and she does fine.  It's

funny how close you can be to the right speed once you've

practiced, without any instrumentation.  As far as I'm concerned,

the instruments are there just as guidance.  A practiced pilot should

have enough feel to safely land a single engine plane.

Tim

do not archive

On 6/18/2015 9:28 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On 06/18/2015 08:57 AM, Owen Baker  wrote:

> On a normally warm yesterday my iPad mini 2 with WingX Pro 7, held in

> cockpit space by a Ram mount, gave up and said words to the effect: "I

> am suffering from heat exhaustion and will have to rest for a while."

>

> Maybe one should rethink making a panel mounted iPad a critical piece of

> flight instrumentation.

 On the flip side of that, I have an iPad 2 running WingX mounted on the

 panel of my Glastar using a RAM mount, and have had no issues in using

 it, going on 4 years now.

 Likely my high wing helps to block some of the sun from hitting the iPad

 directly.  It would also be easy enough to add a cooling fan much like

 we do with other panel mounted avionics.

 For a VFR aircraft, do you really need more than an airspeed indicator

 to make a safe landing?  I would not consider the iPad a critical piece

 of flight instrumentation even if it were the only thing on the panel

 other than an airspeed indicator and maybe an RPM gauge.

 My half cents, fwiw,

 -Dj

handainc(at)madisoncounty
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:55 am Post subject: iPad in the Cockpit

That is the way I was trained by an old navy instructor.  Had sticky 

pads in his pocket and would start covering instruments until I could 

set engine rpm's by sound, air speed by feel and sound, and recognize 

change in attitude by both sounds and feel.  But that really has little 

to do with using an iPad as a navigation aid.....I say aid, as I always 

have a chart as backup, and constantly check what the electronics say as 

compared to my compass and DG, although DG's can precess and be off a 

lot if they are starting to fail or well worn.  The other thing is, 

compared to a panel mount Garmin unit that would give you a moving map 

display, with the subscription costs on top of the installation costs, I 

can easily buy a second iPad and 2nd ForeFlight subscription for backup 

if I were too lazy to finish a trip with chart and dead reckoning.  It 

is hard enough to afford flying for many of us in the best of 

conditions, and more power to those that can afford the higher dollar 

solutions.....I certainly don't begrudge  anyone a higher financial 

standard in any endeavor.  But for my uses, the iPad is a good solution 

that I can reasonably afford.  Everything is a trade off, and any 

electronic device can fail.  Knowing your limits, the limits of your 

equipment, and planning for the failure is the key to being safe in 

flying, or in any form of transportation.



M. Haught



On 6/18/2015 10:17 AM, Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



  Heck, I'll take it one step further....



 For a VFR aircraft, I personally think you should be able to make a safe

 landing with NO instruments, including an airspeed indicator.

 I've been teaching one of the kids to land lately and I often only

 give them engine gauges to go off of, and she does fine.  It's

 funny how close you can be to the right speed once you've

 practiced, without any instrumentation.  As far as I'm concerned,

 the instruments are there just as guidance.  A practiced pilot should

 have enough feel to safely land a single engine plane.

 Tim



 do not archive



 On 6/18/2015 9:28 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:

> 

>

> On 06/18/2015 08:57 AM, Owen Baker  wrote:

>> On a normally warm yesterday my iPad mini 2 with WingX Pro 7, held in

>> cockpit space by a Ram mount, gave up and said words to the effect: "I

>> am suffering from heat exhaustion and will have to rest for a while."

>>

>> Maybe one should rethink making a panel mounted iPad a critical 

>> piece of

>> flight instrumentation.

>

> On the flip side of that, I have an iPad 2 running WingX mounted on the

> panel of my Glastar using a RAM mount, and have had no issues in using

> it, going on 4 years now.

>

> Likely my high wing helps to block some of the sun from hitting the iPad

> directly.  It would also be easy enough to add a cooling fan much like

> we do with other panel mounted avionics.

>

> For a VFR aircraft, do you really need more than an airspeed indicator

> to make a safe landing?  I would not consider the iPad a critical piece

> of flight instrumentation even if it were the only thing on the panel

> other than an airspeed indicator and maybe an RPM gauge.

>

> My half cents, fwiw,

>

> -Dj

>




	




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fedico94(at)mchsi.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:17 pm Post subject: iPad in the Cockpit

My intention is to show the rapid progress in digital avionics.  You can buy an HP laptop for 449 dollars and one for 1800 dollars.  Same specs but the 1800 dollar is built to police and military specification for temperature extremes and vibration.  Samsung had the Galaxy S and Apple had one of the iPads tested to meet FAA EFB requirements.  My G3X has operated in extremes of Iowa weather and has had no problems.  Lighter Smarter and lower cost in the future.  Think about the DME you had in 1960 compared to today in terms of cost, weight and size.



---

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:04 am Post subject: iPad in the Cockpit

Good Morning M. Haught,

   

  Very well put.

  

 Happy Skies,

  

 Old Bob



 [quote][b]

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:27 am Post subject: iPad in the Cockpit

The iPad 2 is generating much less heat then the mini iPad or iPad3.



That will influence usability 



Cheers Werner



On 18.06.2015 16:28, Dj Merrill wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 On 06/18/2015 08:57 AM, Owen Baker  wrote:

> On a normally warm yesterday my iPad mini 2 with WingX Pro 7, held in

> cockpit space by a Ram mount, gave up and said words to the effect: "I

> am suffering from heat exhaustion and will have to rest for a while."

 On the flip side of that, I have an iPad 2 running WingX mounted on the

 panel of my Glastar using a RAM mount, and have had no issues in using

 it, going on 4 years now.

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:46 am Post subject: iPad in the Cockpit

I don't think internal heat generation is the issue; it's heat gain 

(absorption) due to exposure to sunlight on the black screen.



Having said that, losing basic flight instruments on a VFR day in bright 

sunlight shouldn't be too much of a problem. Losing nav info might be a 

bit bigger deal if on a cross country, but should be recoverable by just 

moving the device out of the sun until it cools down. Besides, a backup 

nav device is as simple as a smart phone.



Charlie



On 6/19/2015 9:26 AM, Werner Schneider wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <glastar(at)gmx.net>



 The iPad 2 is generating much less heat then the mini iPad or iPad3.



 That will influence usability 



 Cheers Werner



 On 18.06.2015 16:28, Dj Merrill wrote:

> 

>

> On 06/18/2015 08:57 AM, Owen Baker  wrote:

>> On a normally warm yesterday my iPad mini 2 with WingX Pro 7, held in

>> cockpit space by a Ram mount, gave up and said words to the effect: "I

>> am suffering from heat exhaustion and will have to rest for a while."

> On the flip side of that, I have an iPad 2 running WingX mounted on the

> panel of my Glastar using a RAM mount, and have had no issues in using

> it, going on 4 years now.

>

handainc(at)madisoncounty
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:50 am Post subject: iPad in the Cockpit

I could not be more pleased with my iPad 2, for general use or in the cockpit.  Bought it used from a guy trading up when the iP3 came out, and it has been flawless.  Good battery life, everything works well and will hook up with my piece of crap iMac, and interfaces on various apps with my iPhone perfectly. It will be a sad day when I have to “trade up” because I suspect that anything that replaces it will not be nearly as good as it has been.  My iPhone had it’s trepidations, and had to be replaced twice when new because the battery would not hold a charge and got really hot, but the last one has been good.  So I read reviews about the newer iterations in anticipation of having to replace either of them and hope I can put off the change as long as possible.  Still, I think the cooling issues can be mitigated.  Like any other piece of equipment, you just have to deal with the particular operating characteristics of each to maximize the usability.  Due to my “old eyes” I favor the larger of the display screens available, which can create space and layout issues. 

M. Haught 

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jun 19, 2015, at 9:26 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> wrote:

 The iPad 2 is generating much less heat then the mini iPad or iPad3.

 That will influence usability 

 Cheers Werner

 On 18.06.2015 16:28, Dj Merrill wrote:

> 

> 

> On 06/18/2015 08:57 AM, Owen Baker  wrote:

>> On a normally warm yesterday my iPad mini 2 with WingX Pro 7, held in

>> cockpit space by a Ram mount, gave up and said words to the effect: "I

>> am suffering from heat exhaustion and will have to rest for a while."

> On the flip side of that, I have an iPad 2 running WingX mounted on the

> panel of my Glastar using a RAM mount, and have had no issues in using

> it, going on 4 years now.

>

JOHN TIPTON

Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Torquay - England

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:18 am Post subject: iPad in the Cockpit

Here's how I use my iPad: oh yes: that's my four year old grandson co-pilot

John

Sent from my iPad

     ----x--O--x----

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 19 Jun 2015, at 04:49 pm, "H. Marvin Haught" <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> wrote:

 I could not be more pleased with my iPad 2, for general use or in the cockpit.  Bought it used from a guy trading up when the iP3 came out, and it has been flawless.  Good battery life, everything works well and will hook up with my piece of crap iMac, and interfaces on various apps with my iPhone perfectly. It will be a sad day when I have to “trade up” because I suspect that anything that replaces it will not be nearly as good as it has been.  My iPhone had it’s trepidations, and had to be replaced twice when new because the battery would not hold a charge and got really hot, but the last one has been good.  So I read reviews about the newer iterations in anticipation of having to replace either of them and hope I can put off the change as long as possible.  Still, I think the cooling issues can be mitigated.  Like any other piece of equipment, you just have to deal with the particular operating characteristics of each to maximize the usability.  Due to my “old eye!

 s” I favor the larger of the display screens available, which can create space and layout issues. 

 M. Haught 

> On Jun 19, 2015, at 9:26 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> The iPad 2 is generating much less heat then the mini iPad or iPad3.

> 

> That will influence usability 

> 

> Cheers Werner

> 

>> On 18.06.2015 16:28, Dj Merrill wrote:

>> 

>> 

>>> On 06/18/2015 08:57 AM, Owen Baker  wrote:

>>> On a normally warm yesterday my iPad mini 2 with WingX Pro 7, held in

>>> cockpit space by a Ram mount, gave up and said words to the effect: "I

>>> am suffering from heat exhaustion and will have to rest for a while."

>> On the flip side of that, I have an iPad 2 running WingX mounted on the

>> panel of my Glastar using a RAM mount, and have had no issues in using

>> it, going on 4 years now.

====================================

====================================

====================================

====================================

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handainc(at)madisoncounty
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:44 am Post subject: iPad in the Cockpit

Great photo!  That’s the way to get them started!  



Marv 

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jun 19, 2015, at 1:16 PM, John Tipton <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com> wrote:

 

 <image.jpeg>

 

 Here's how I use my iPad: oh yes: that's my four year old grandson co-pilot

 

 John

 Sent from my iPad

 

     ----x--O--x----

 

> On 19 Jun 2015, at 04:49 pm, "H. Marvin Haught" <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> I could not be more pleased with my iPad 2, for general use or in the cockpit.  Bought it used from a guy trading up when the iP3 came out, and it has been flawless.  Good battery life, everything works well and will hook up with my piece of crap iMac, and interfaces on various apps with my iPhone perfectly. It will be a sad day when I have to “trade up” because I suspect that anything that replaces it will not be nearly as good as it has been.  My iPhone had it’s trepidations, and had to be replaced twice when new because the battery would not hold a charge and got really hot, but the last one has been good.  So I read reviews about the newer iterations in anticipation of having to replace either of them and hope I can put off the change as long as possible.  Still, I think the cooling issues can be mitigated.  Like any other piece of equipment, you just have to deal with the particular operating characteristics of each to maximize the usability.  Due to my “old eye!

> s” I favor the larger of the display screens available, which can create space and layout issues. 

> 

> M. Haught 

> 

> 

>> On Jun 19, 2015, at 9:26 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> The iPad 2 is generating much less heat then the mini iPad or iPad3.

>> 

>> That will influence usability 

>> 

>> Cheers Werner

>> 

>>> On 18.06.2015 16:28, Dj Merrill wrote:

>>> 

>>> 

>>>> On 06/18/2015 08:57 AM, Owen Baker  wrote:

>>>> On a normally warm yesterday my iPad mini 2 with WingX Pro 7, held in

>>>> cockpit space by a Ram mount, gave up and said words to the effect: "I

>>>> am suffering from heat exhaustion and will have to rest for a while."

>>> On the flip side of that, I have an iPad 2 running WingX mounted on the

>>> panel of my Glastar using a RAM mount, and have had no issues in using

>>> it, going on 4 years now.

> 

> 

> 

> 

 ====================================

 ====================================

 ====================================

 ====================================

> 

> 

> 

 

 <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

 

 

 </b></font></pre>

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:56 am Post subject: iPad in the Cockpit

If you like the 2 you'll really like the air/air2 also some day.

Tim

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jun 19, 2015, at 9:49 AM, H. Marvin Haught <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net> wrote:

 I could not be more pleased with my iPad 2, for general use or in the cockpit.  Bought it used from a guy trading up when the iP3 came out, and it has been flawless.  Good battery life, everything works well and will hook up with my piece of crap iMac, and interfaces on various apps with my iPhone perfectly. It will be a sad day when I have to “trade up” because I suspect that anything that replaces it will not be nearly as good as it has been.  My iPhone had it’s trepidations, and had to be replaced twice when new because the battery would not hold a charge and got really hot, but the last one has been good.  So I read reviews about the newer iterations in anticipation of having to replace either of them and hope I can put off the change as long as possible.  Still, I think the cooling issues can be mitigated.  Like any other piece of equipment, you just have to deal with the particular operating characteristics of each to maximize the usability.  Due to my “old eye!

 s” I favor the larger of the display screens available, which can create space and layout issues. 

 M. Haught 

> On Jun 19, 2015, at 9:26 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> The iPad 2 is generating much less heat then the mini iPad or iPad3.

> 

> That will influence usability 

> 

> Cheers Werner

> 

>> On 18.06.2015 16:28, Dj Merrill wrote:

>> 

>> 

>>> On 06/18/2015 08:57 AM, Owen Baker  wrote:

>>> On a normally warm yesterday my iPad mini 2 with WingX Pro 7, held in

>>> cockpit space by a Ram mount, gave up and said words to the effect: "I

>>> am suffering from heat exhaustion and will have to rest for a while."

>> On the flip side of that, I have an iPad 2 running WingX mounted on the

>> panel of my Glastar using a RAM mount, and have had no issues in using

>> it, going on 4 years now.

stuart(at)stuarthutchison
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:18 am Post subject: iPad in the Cockpit

Like anything electronic, the iPad generates its own heat and requires cooling airflow. Vertical mount lends itself to effective cooling as the heat rises away from the device, but carrying it on your lap or in a knee mount in direct sunlight in thin air makes cooling even harder.  I’ve seen a horizontally mounted iPad overheat and shut down in under 20 min in a Lancair IV at 18000.

Food for thought.  If you can, point the punkah louver at it.



Cheers, Stu

 	  Quote: 	
		  On 19 Jun 2015, at 22:42, H. Marvin Haught <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net (handainc(at)madisoncounty.net)> wrote:

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "H. Marvin Haught" <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net (handainc(at)madisoncounty.net)>Great photo!  That’s the way to get them started!  Marv  	  Quote: 	
		  On Jun 19, 2015, at 1:16 PM, John Tipton <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com (jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com)> wrote:<image.jpeg>Here's how I use my iPad: oh yes: that's my four year old grandson co-pilotJohnSent from my iPad   ----x--O--x---- 	  Quote: 	
		  On 19 Jun 2015, at 04:49 pm, "H. Marvin Haught" <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net (handainc(at)madisoncounty.net)> wrote:--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "H. Marvin Haught" <handainc(at)madisoncounty.net (handainc(at)madisoncounty.net)>I could not be more pleased with my iPad 2, for general use or in the cockpit.  Bought it used from a guy trading up when the iP3 came out, and it has been flawless.  Good battery life, everything works well and will hook up with my piece of crap iMac, and interfaces on various apps with my iPhone perfectly. It will be a sad day when I have to “trade up” because I suspect that anything that replaces it will not be nearly as good as it has been.  My iPhone had it’s trepidations, and had to be replaced twice when new because the battery would not hold a charge and got really hot, but the last one has been good.  So I read reviews about the newer iterations in anticipation of having to replace either of them and hope I can put off the change as long as possible.  Still, I think the cooling issues can be mitigated.  Like any other piece of equipment, you just have to deal with the particular operating characteristics of each to maximize the usability.  Due to my “old ! 	
	
eye! 	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  s” I favor the larger of the display screens available, which can create space and layout issues. M. Haught  	  Quote: 	
		  On Jun 19, 2015, at 9:26 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net (glastar(at)gmx.net)> wrote:--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net (glastar(at)gmx.net)>The iPad 2 is generating much less heat then the mini iPad or iPad3.That will influence usability ;)Cheers Werner 	  Quote: 	
		  On 18.06.2015 16:28, Dj Merrill wrote:--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net (deej(at)deej.net)> 	  Quote: 	
		  On 06/18/2015 08:57 AM, Owen Baker  wrote:On a normally warm yesterday my iPad mini 2 with WingX Pro 7, held incockpit space by a Ram mount, gave up and said words to the effect: "Iam suffering from heat exhaustion and will have to rest for a while." 	
On the flip side of that, I have an iPad 2 running WingX mounted on thepanel of my Glastar using a RAM mount, and have had no issues in usingit, going on 4 years now. 	
	
	
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<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"></b></font></pre> 	
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