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Just bought a Firefly

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Keith84

Joined: 26 Jun 2015
Posts: 11

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:04 am Post subject: Just bought a Firefly

I wanted to introduce myself,  name is Keith and I live in central texas.  I have 40 hrs between a cessna 152&172 but lost my medical while I was preparing for PPL oral and check ride. Well that was a year ago, a couple weeks ago I bought a part103 legal firefily! So far it seems to run pretty well, i have only done a few high speed taxis but it seems to get squirly rather fast. I have been pretty hesitant to fly it honestly, every time i go to the grass strip its based at I am determined to crow hop it. Then once i try i get nervous at how squirly it is. The tail wheel configuration is pretty foriegn to me! I suppose their is no reason to rush! If you guys have any tips I would love to hear them!

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98' Kolb FireFly

stuart(at)harnerfarm.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:43 pm Post subject: Just bought a Firefly

Welcome Keith!  Great to have another Firefly owner.  There are lots of

great people here to help you along.



First off, be very, very careful if you don't have any time in a tail

dragger. They are not hard to handle but are most certainly different than

the nose gear aircraft you mentioned. I am an old time type that thinks

everyone should learn to drive a stick shift before an automatic and

everyone should learn to fly in a tail dragger before moving on to a

tricycle gear. That's just me, others may be different, so take it for what

it is worth.



The main difference is on a tricycle gear airplane the center of gravity is

between the main gear and then nose wheel. The tail dragger has the center

of gravity between the wheels too, but that puts it behind the main gear.

So, the center of gravity is always trying to get in front. It is up to the

pilot to keep it in place.



This is not difficult to do, but it does take some getting used to. I am

sure there are some pilots that could teach themselves to drive a tail

dragger, but for the most part I am betting most people here will recommend

you get some training in a tail dragger before you venture out on your own.



If you could get some training in a two seat Kolb that would be the best

thing I could think of. Short of that, another very light tail dragger.

Short of that, a full sized aircraft such as a Champ, Cub or Taylorcraft

come to mind. They are a little heavier but the basics of tail wheel

aircraft are the same.



One thing that you did not mention is what engine and prop setup you have.

If a Rotax with a gearbox, even though the prop turns the same way as say a

Cub, the Firefly will require left rudder on takeoff, not the right rudder

that the other mentioned tail draggers require. Not hard, just different.



Also, the Firefly is an Ultralight and will behave differently than the

"heavy" aircraft you are used to. There is a significant amount of drag and

very little mass (or inertia) so when the power is reduced, you see a rather

instant reduction in airspeed. Not dangerous, but you need to be ready for

it. And the high thrust line of the engine causes some different motions

than the forward nose mounted Cessna's. Again, not hard but different.



Now, don't take any of this as a negative. You can do this, but you are

probably going to need some help. Sometimes instruction in a tail dragger is

hard to find. Instruction in a very light aircraft can be even more so. Look

around, even if you have to travel some. Since you already know how to fly,

it will probably only take a few hours of instruction to get the hang of a

tail dragger. It might be possible to get it done in one day.



There is a fair amount of "discussion" about "crow hops". I won't get into

that here except to say in your situation I would not recommend it. I would

really hate to see something go wrong and for you to ball up your Firefly on

the edge of the runway. That might end your desire to fly ever again. The

Firefly is in my humble opinion one of the most fun things to fly I have

ever been in.



My first flight in the Firefly was an eye opener. I had never flown anything

that light weight and managed to get into some turbulence at about 200 AGL.

The Firefly is so responsive that I found myself in Pilot Induced

Oscillations (PIO). Fortunately I heard my first instructor saying "cut your

corrections in half". That helped me finish the first flight without

incident.



The next best piece of advice I got was a good friend who is a helicopter

pilot. He said to quit flying with my arm and hand. "put your elbow on your

leg and fly with your fingertips. That combined with really smooth air on

the second flight made it a complete success.



A bit of background for you to relate this to: I learned to fly in an

Aeronca Chief while in high school more than 40 years ago. Flew Cessna

150's, 172's and Various Piper products but never a Cub. Flew a Cherokee 180

for several years and that is by far the easiest aircraft to fly. You have

to work at it to make something go not right. Made my first flight in my

Firefly last Fall and have amassed nearly 10 full hours in the air since

then!  Wow huh? So as you can see I am no expert, but rather am nearly where

you are although a little more experience in tail draggers.  The Chief was a

great airplane but it kept you honest and would remind you of what could go

wrong if you ignored it. 



If you can't find tail dragger instruction, maybe you can find a fellow

pilot with one that will help you out for say gas and a wash job.



When you finally do make that first flight and get it back on the ground

without bending anything, it will be one of the most memorable things you

ever do.



Keep asking questions we are here to help.



Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.



Stuart

Firefly Serenity



P.S. Take some time and read the archives on this site, they are chocked

full of good stuff.



--

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:50 am Post subject: Re: Just bought a Firefly

What Stuart said.

Different topic: I assume you have a gap seal for the area between the wings but simply took the picture without it? And that you had it installed when you did your high speed taxis? Because a Kolb with no gap seal is not a happy experience. Just checking. 



Now go find some taildragger dual and everything will be lovely.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

racerjerry

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Just bought a Firefly

The Firefly does not behave AT ALL like a Cessna 150; let alone a 172.  Kolbs are very draggy and have low inertia and consequently slow down immediately when you get off the throttle.  To make matters worse, because of the high thrust line of the pusher prop; when you close the throttle, the nose will pitch up and can easily get you too close to stall speed if you are not prepared.   When the throttle is closed, you must immediately be ready with forward stick pressure to maintain airspeed or as many say:  "... the ground will rise up and smite thee."



As far as taildragger experience, make your early flights off of a grass strip before moving on to paved runways.  My Firestar II was never a problem because of its comparatively long fuselage and reward location of main wheels (closer to CG than most airplanes).



Don't get me wrong; Kolbs are an absolute joy to fly, but training in a Cessna and jumping into a Kolb without instruction or experience in VERY light aircraft can easily get you hurt.  EVERYTHING is different.  



The best practice you can have is to find someone with  a 2-place Kolb which will have fight characteristics very similar to your Firefly.



I wish you the best of luck with this fun airplane.

_________________
Jerry King

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:21 pm Post subject: Just bought a Firefly

Nice looking bird, Fireflys are great flying craft.

Easy on the controls, they are very responsive. Remember you will be using left rudder on takeoff and climb, not right like GA aircraft. 

Fly it right down to the grass before you flair as these baby's slow down super fast when you flair. Don't want to drop it in.  



Dennis "Skid" Rowe

Mk3, Rotax 670, 

Leechburg, PA



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jun 27, 2015, at 2:04 PM, Keith84 <keithdienelt(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 I wanted to introduce myself,  name is Keith and I live in central texas.  I have 40 hrs between a cessna 152&172 but lost my medical while I was preparing for PPL oral and check ride. Well that was a year ago, a couple weeks ago I bought a part103 legal firefily! So far it seems to run pretty well, i have only done a few high speed taxis but it seems to get squirly rather fast. I have been pretty hesitant to fly it honestly, every time i go to the grass strip its based at I am determined to crow hop it. Then once i try i get nervous at how squirly it is. The tail wheel configuration is pretty foriegn to me! I suppose their is no reason to rush! If you guys have any tips I would love to hear them!

 

 --------

 98' Kolb FireFly

 

 

 

 

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 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444100#444100

 

 

 

 

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Keith84

Joined: 26 Jun 2015
Posts: 11

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Just bought a Firefly

The rotax 447 has 62" tn prop with a B gear box I believe but I need to make sure. I do have a vynel wing gap cover, the veco on the wings was done very poorly but works... Kinda. I want to replace it with a plexiglass piece eventually.  



Thanks for all the great advice! I have tracked down a school in waco that has a tail dragger! I will call them tomorrow to gather some more information. I havent found any two place kolbs in the fort hood area yet, just a bunch of challenger 2's and a couple quicksilvers unfortunately.  Hopefully I can get in to waco in the next week or two to get some lessons!

_________________
98' Kolb FireFly

henry.voris

Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Pueo Field, Kula, Maui

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Just bought a Firefly

Keith,



Squirly on high speed taxi ya say??? Had the same problem when I first went to fly my FireFly... After several exiciting episodes of exiting the runway at right angles to my intended route, I came to the conclusion, while dragged the plane outta the bushes, that high-speed taxing and crow hopping are some of the most dangerous activities a transitional pilot can engage in. Best to wind her up, get off the ground and fly away...



After learning more about the aircraft, I realized that the camber on the wheels was way out. Hard landings will do that. After bending things back to where I figured they should be, she tracked like a new airplane. Quick check, stand in front of your airplane, look at the wheels, if the top of the wheels lean towards the center of the airplane you may want to consider resetting the camber.



Don't know if you're aware but Jack Hart on this list has a fine site covering many technological aspects of the FireFly... Although I can't remember if he covers this subject.



Aloha,

_________________
Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo

Do Not Archive

Bill Long

Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 19

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:54 pm Post subject: Just bought a Firefly

That full shield is nice. I put one on mine and cruise speed is up 5.



Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------

From: racerjerry <gnking2(at)verizon.net> 

Date: 06/28/2015  9:57 AM  (GMT-05:00) 

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com 

Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Just bought a Firefly 




The Firefly does not behave AT ALL like a Cessna 150; let alone a 172.  Kolbs are very draggy and have low inertia and consequently slow down immediately when you get off the throttle.  To make matters worse, because of the high thrust line of the pusher prop; when you close the throttle, the nose will pitch up and can easily get you too close to stall speed if you are not prepared.   When the throttle is closed, you must immediately be ready with forward stick pressure to maintain airspeed or as many say:  "... the ground will rise up and smite thee."


As far as taildragger experience, make your early flights off of a grass strip before moving on to paved runways.  My Firestar II was never a problem because of its comparatively long fuselage and reward location of main wheels (closer to CG than most airplanes).


Don't get me wrong; Kolbs are an absolute joy to fly, but training in a Cessna and jumping into a Kolb without instruction or experience in VERY light aircraft can easily get you hurt.  EVERYTHING is different.  


The best practice you can have is to find someone with  a 2-place Kolb which will have fight characteristics very similar to your Firefly.


I wish you the best of luck with this fun airplane.


--------

Jerry King





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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444119#444119

t41pilot

Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 38
Location: Howard City, Michigan

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Just bought a Firefly

I've got to second the lack of the gap seal in the center section of the wing. It may not affect the ground handling much but would certainly not help in the air.  I've read a couple of posts which indicated that performance was very noticeably degraded without it. I also did not see the rudder trim tab that is in the build plans. Maybe the camera angle? I tried my firefly with and without. Ground handling was terrible without it especially on takeoff. Once I installed it (stock size and deflection as indicated on the plans), my ground handling problems went away.  She tracks straight as an arrow now.

_________________
Gregg Kaat
2011 Firefly

Keith84

Joined: 26 Jun 2015
Posts: 11

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Just bought a Firefly

I do have a gap seal that is not pictured. My plane does not have a rudder trim tab. It didnt come with a manual or full set of planes either. A trim tab sure woud be nice!  I still havent taken it up yet, tonight i am going to check the camber and try to give it a go.  I will probably skip all the high speed taxi's and and attempt a simple 3 point landing

_________________
98' Kolb FireFly

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:42 am Post subject: Just bought a Firefly

How about a simple wheels landing first.  Then again, get it

down anyway you can that feels good and is safe.



john h

Liard Hot Springs, BC, Canada



--

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Keith84

Joined: 26 Jun 2015
Posts: 11

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:37 am Post subject: Re: Just bought a Firefly

Well my first attempt at flying did not go so well! At least I now know what it feels like to nose over. Its not as scary as I thought. While I repair the nose cone i think I will install a temporary skid 😎

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98' Kolb FireFly

Jim Baker

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:37 am Post subject: Just bought a Firefly

What were you trying to do? Not snarky, just wondering the mode of attempted flight......  Jim Baker [url=tel:4054265377]405 426 5377[/url]--

Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:29 am Post subject: Just bought a Firefly

First two flights on Firefly #1  ended with landing on my nose, in quick 

succession...I might add... Took a real divit on the second 

landing...Removed  the Heel brakes  and all was fine after that...bought 

a used nose cone from Travis  .



   'Nuther issue....the wing holding fixture that goes through a hole in 

the tail boom near the front of the tail feathers.....On mine the cro 

molly tube that goes through the boom tube has been ground off!



   anyone ever mounted the folded wings differently that what is 

intended by TNK?  I will weld the through tube back on unless there are 

other, more desirable methods ?  I am thinking about a cradle on wheels 

that clamps around the tail boom that contains  airfoil shaped pads to 

support the wings... ala...sailplane.... Lots of foam and boat carpet...



   thanks to all who set me straight on my painting folly....Mainly too 

much air...(a memory fart)  Will add color to the wings tomorrow 

morning...and affix the Flapperons .. Coming along nicely... Should have 

been in the air by now...the 90-90 syndrome...



   By the way...would like to trade a three blade hub from GSC for a two 

blade one.... Also would trade three IVO 60 inch medium(503-582) blades 

for three UL blades...pusher of course...all like new...Herb



On 07/28/2015 07:37 AM, Keith84 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Well my first attempt at flying did not go so well! At least I now know what it feels like to nose over. Its not as scary as I thought. While I repair the nose cone i think I will install a temporary skid 😎



 --------

 98' Kolb FireFly





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Keith84

Joined: 26 Jun 2015
Posts: 11

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Just bought a Firefly

 	  Jim Baker wrote: 	
		  What were you trying to do? Not snarky, just wondering the mode of attempted flight......  Jim Baker [url=tel:4054265377]405 426 5377[/url]-- 	




Well i found my old tail wheel assembly had a broken weld. So i put a new one on and was doing a bunch lf taxing back and forth. I haven't flown it so I  do not have any muscle memory as to how the plane handles. I also dont really look at the gauges since I have my eyes glued to the field. I believe i got her up to 40-50mph and didnt realize it. I was holding the stick in the neutral position since i really didnt intend to fly her. Then i felt the nose going. I dont know if sticked back or not i just know that i ended up skidding about 50 feet.

_________________
98' Kolb FireFly

Larlaeb

Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 75
Location: League City, Texas United States

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Just bought a Firefly

I'm probably a nervous Nellie and I'm certainly not qualified to tell anyone what to do but I think you would feel a lot more comfortable if you had a few hours of tailwheel instruction.  As has already been stated, these planes are not that hard to fly but they are different and the closer you can get to getting some experience in a 'like' aircraft the better you will feel. 



When I got my MKIII I had no experience in this type of aircraft although I did have a private license and had a good bit of tail dragger time (long ago).  I did the taxi drill like you are doing but also got a few hours in a Citabria and a Cub.  They are different but it did make me feel I could handle the plane and although I was scared to death the first flight I took it all worked out.  



I'm in Texas in the Houston area and you can email me at Larlaeb(at)gmail.com.  I'm no instructor but I could probably give you a ride in my Kolb if you think that would help. 



Sincerely,

Allan

Keith84

Joined: 26 Jun 2015
Posts: 11

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Just bought a Firefly

 	  Larlaeb wrote: 	
		  I'm probably a nervous Nellie and I'm certainly not qualified to tell anyone what to do but I think you would feel a lot more comfortable if you had a few hours of tailwheel instruction.  As has already been stated, these planes are not that hard to fly but they are different and the closer you can get to getting some experience in a 'like' aircraft the better you will feel. 



When I got my MKIII I had no experience in this type of aircraft although I did have a private license and had a good bit of tail dragger time (long ago).  I did the taxi drill like you are doing but also got a few hours in a Citabria and a Cub.  They are different but it did make me feel I could handle the plane and although I was scared to death the first flight I took it all worked out.  



I'm in Texas in the Houston area and you can email me at Larlaeb(at)gmail.com.  I'm no instructor but I could probably give you a ride in my Kolb if you think that would help. 



Sincerely,

Allan 	




I am with you about being nervous! I se t ya an email.

_________________
98' Kolb FireFly

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