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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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 Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:44 pm Post subject: camera mounts |
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From time to time some of you have wondered about recording your flights. I have achieved fair results in getting recordings that are watchable, but still have difficulty in getting "perfectly" or even "reasonably" smooth recordings because of the vibrations from the engine traveling through the air frame to the cameras. Since the list seems to be seething with email messages, and I am bored, I will go through the experiments that I have tried in this endeavor.
Cameras: I personally prefer the Virb Elite, by Garmin. The video is crystal clear in 1080, and it gives you GPS tracking, altitude, speed and even heart beat if you are so inclined. They also have a built stabilizer feature that seems to help a bit. you can also set it to record when you are moving and revert to standby when stopped. That is good for old forgetful farts such as myself.
Second would be the cameras from Drift: They also have 1080, color is good and crisp. Seems a bit easier to get the harmonics out than most of the cameras. Both of these are pretty reasonable in price, and have good battery life.
I have tried GoPro and could never get close to the stabilized video from the other two cameras.
One of the biggest problems is the mounting system that each camera has. Virb has a cradle, but it is solid, therefore not too bad. Drift has to me the best and that is a standard camera mount screw.
One would believe that insulating the camera from the vibration would give you the best results, and I spent the last weekend disproving that idea. Go Pro is the camera of choice of the "drone" operators, and they have an elaborate "gimble" setup with rubber isolation mounts and a gyro to keep the camera from jumping around. I have a friend who flies these things and on his insistence built one of my own for the express purpose of proving him wrong. Like I say its been a bit boring here.
I tried mounts on the nose pod, gap seal of the wing, and on the wing itself. I tried both soft and hard mounts. The best is the hard mount on the nose pod and padded against movement seems to be the best of all. Second best is the wing hard mount.
Here is a short test video of the different mounts. The type of mount is shown after the vibration test. The hard mount is improved by padding it as in the photo below. The mount in the video is on the wing in each case.
https://vimeo.com/134510125 password- owyheeflyer
The padded mounts are two pieces of lexan that are isolated from each other with some foam. One is just padded and bolts are touching the lexan, the next is isolated totally. and the last is just the cradle secured to the wing attach point.
Larry
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stuart(at)harnerfarm.net
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:28 pm Post subject: camera mounts |
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Larry,
Thanks for posting this. Do you think if the camera had more mass it would be more stable?
My motorcycle has weights attached to the ends of the handlebars to dampen vibration, so I wonder if this would help with the camera.
Currently my Virb is clamped to the fuselage of the Firefly up near the “choke” lever. This is not the most ideal location but the current purpose is to record the flights for review afterwards. Eventually it will need to be moved to a location that gives a better view. The clamp is one from Garmin’s mount kit and has a small rubber isolator. I have been wanting to try the clamp for a larger tube and just fill the gap with something to absorb more of the vibration. The trick will be finding something soft and squishy enough to absorb the vibration but stiff enough to hold the camera in place.
Your videos are always more stable than mine.
There is always something that needs tweaking, eh?
Stuart
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 5:44 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: camera mounts
From time to time some of you have wondered about recording your flights. I have achieved fair results in getting recordings that are watchable, but still have difficulty in getting "perfectly" or even "reasonably" smooth recordings because of the vibrations from the engine traveling through the air frame to the cameras. Since the list seems to be seething with email messages, and I am bored, I will go through the experiments that I have tried in this endeavor.
Cameras: I personally prefer the Virb Elite, by Garmin. The video is crystal clear in 1080, and it gives you GPS tracking, altitude, speed and even heart beat if you are so inclined. They also have a built stabilizer feature that seems to help a bit. you can also set it to record when you are moving and revert to standby when stopped. That is good for old forgetful farts such as myself.
Second would be the cameras from Drift: They also have 1080, color is good and crisp. Seems a bit easier to get the harmonics out than most of the cameras. Both of these are pretty reasonable in price, and have good battery life.
I have tried GoPro and could never get close to the stabilized video from the other two cameras.
One of the biggest problems is the mounting system that each camera has. Virb has a cradle, but it is solid, therefore not too bad. Drift has to me the best and that is a standard camera mount screw.
One would believe that insulating the camera from the vibration would give you the best results, and I spent the last weekend disproving that idea. Go Pro is the camera of choice of the "drone" operators, and they have an elaborate "gimble" setup with rubber isolation mounts and a gyro to keep the camera from jumping around. I have a friend who flies these things and on his insistence built one of my own for the express purpose of proving him wrong. Like I say its been a bit boring here.
I tried mounts on the nose pod, gap seal of the wing, and on the wing itself. I tried both soft and hard mounts. The best is the hard mount on the nose pod and padded against movement seems to be the best of all. Second best is the wing hard mount.
Here is a short test video of the different mounts. The type of mount is shown after the vibration test. The hard mount is improved by padding it as in the photo below. The mount in the video is on the wing in each case.
https://vimeo.com/134510125 password- owyheeflyer
The padded mounts are two pieces of lexan that are isolated from each other with some foam. One is just padded and bolts are touching the lexan, the next is isolated totally. and the last is just the cradle secured to the wing attach point.
Larry
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If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
[quote][b]
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: camera mounts |
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Years ago - 1984 ish - I spent the fall making videos using my Maxair Hummer as the camera platform. Rotax 277, so lots of engine vibration. Zero camera vibration, and smooth pictures. I am thinking that the new modern cameras and their lack of mass is working against us.
Back then, I got some EMT and made a swivel mount that attached to the Hummer's rigid gear and downtube, and positioned the camera alongside the fuselage by my left hand. I could use my hand to pivot and aim the camera, I used it on wide angle, and just aimed it in the general direction. Worked amazingly well, bearing in mind that I edited out and threw away a lot of footage.
I was using a camera that probably weighed 3-5 pounds, and was connected by a cable to a 12V VCR that was hung over the CG via a harness. Very old school, mediocre pictures, but that was all there was back then. But here is the deal: that big heavy camera was suspended from the EMT via small diameter bungee cords that transmitted no vibration to the heavy camera. And today, all the cameras weigh nothing. No mass = no mass damping.
What if you made a mount where your camera mount bracket was something heavy, and then attached the camera to the heavy thing? Mass damping. And then hung that in a way that would neither let it wander around nor transmit vibration? Like using several of the 3/16" mini-bungee cords that Home Depot sells, and the camera mount hanging via them?
Don't need to suggest any more details, you get the idea. Attach the camera to something fairly heavy that is shock/vibration isolated from the airplane, that way you cannot have any harmonics.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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russk50(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:15 pm Post subject: camera mounts |
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Richard
While taking pix from GA aircraft, I molded a lead brick, about 3 pounds, and bolted it onto the bottom of a regular SLR camera. Hand-held, and I didnt let any part of my bod (north of my butt) touch any part of the aircraft. Found I could could shoot at lower shutter speeds, in dim light, with the lead brick. Mass is your friend here; your comments are right on.
Fair winds,
Russ K
| Quote: | On Jul 29, 2015, at 8:52 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> wrote:
Years ago - 1984 ish - I spent the fall making videos using my Maxair Hummer as the camera platform. Rotax 277, so lots of engine vibration. Zero camera vibration, and smooth pictures. I am thinking that the new modern cameras and their lack of mass is working against us.
Back then, I got some EMT and made a swivel mount that attached to the Hummer's rigid gear and downtube, and positioned the camera alongside the fuselage by my left hand. I could use my hand to pivot and aim the camera, I used it on wide angle, and just aimed it in the general direction. Worked amazingly well, bearing in mind that I edited out and threw away a lot of footage.
I was using a camera that probably weighed 3-5 pounds, and was connected by a cable to a 12V VCR that was hung over the CG via a harness. Very old school, mediocre pictures, but that was all there was back then. But here is the deal: that big heavy camera was suspended from the EMT via small diameter bungee cords that transmitted no vibration to the heavy camera. And today, all the cameras weigh nothing. No mass = no mass damping.
What if you made a mount where your camera mount bracket was something heavy, and then attached the camera to the heavy thing? Mass damping. And then hung that in a way that would neither let it wander around nor transmit vibration? Like using several of the 3/16" mini-bungee cords that Home Depot sells, and the camera mount hanging via them?
Don't need to suggest any more details, you get the idea. Attach the camera to something fairly heavy that is shock/vibration isolated from the airplane, that way you cannot have any harmonics.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445387#445387
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:24 pm Post subject: camera mounts |
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Thanks for posting this. Do you think if the camera had more mass it would be more stable?
My motorcycle has weights attached to the ends of the handlebars to dampen vibration, so I wonder if this would help with the camera.
I think there is a possibility that it would help. Perhaps you can tell us.  I do know that the less there is between the camera and the plane the more stable the video is. Don't forget there is a function in the advanced feature of Set up that will allow you to turn on Stabilize.
I tried using some of the little directional arms to get my pod mount so that it would accept the cradle. I finally decided to bend the alum bar so that it faced the way that I wanted it to and the video was a lot more stable. Damn near what I want. Close but not perfect.
Larry
On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Stuart Harner <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net (stuart(at)harnerfarm.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Larry,
Thanks for posting this. Do you think if the camera had more mass it would be more stable?
My motorcycle has weights attached to the ends of the handlebars to dampen vibration, so I wonder if this would help with the camera.
Currently my Virb is clamped to the fuselage of the Firefly up near the “choke” lever. This is not the most ideal location but the current purpose is to record the flights for review afterwards. Eventually it will need to be moved to a location that gives a better view. The clamp is one from Garmin’s mount kit and has a small rubber isolator. I have been wanting to try the clamp for a larger tube and just fill the gap with something to absorb more of the vibration. The trick will be finding something soft and squishy enough to absorb the vibration but stiff enough to hold the camera in place.
Your videos are always more stable than mine.
There is always something that needs tweaking, eh?
Stuart
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 5:44 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: camera mounts
From time to time some of you have wondered about recording your flights. I have achieved fair results in getting recordings that are watchable, but still have difficulty in getting "perfectly" or even "reasonably" smooth recordings because of the vibrations from the engine traveling through the air frame to the cameras. Since the list seems to be seething with email messages, and I am bored, I will go through the experiments that I have tried in this endeavor.
Cameras: I personally prefer the Virb Elite, by Garmin. The video is crystal clear in 1080, and it gives you GPS tracking, altitude, speed and even heart beat if you are so inclined. They also have a built stabilizer feature that seems to help a bit. you can also set it to record when you are moving and revert to standby when stopped. That is good for old forgetful farts such as myself.
Second would be the cameras from Drift: They also have 1080, color is good and crisp. Seems a bit easier to get the harmonics out than most of the cameras. Both of these are pretty reasonable in price, and have good battery life.
I have tried GoPro and could never get close to the stabilized video from the other two cameras.
One of the biggest problems is the mounting system that each camera has. Virb has a cradle, but it is solid, therefore not too bad. Drift has to me the best and that is a standard camera mount screw.
One would believe that insulating the camera from the vibration would give you the best results, and I spent the last weekend disproving that idea. Go Pro is the camera of choice of the "drone" operators, and they have an elaborate "gimble" setup with rubber isolation mounts and a gyro to keep the camera from jumping around. I have a friend who flies these things and on his insistence built one of my own for the express purpose of proving him wrong. Like I say its been a bit boring here.
I tried mounts on the nose pod, gap seal of the wing, and on the wing itself. I tried both soft and hard mounts. The best is the hard mount on the nose pod and padded against movement seems to be the best of all. Second best is the wing hard mount.
Here is a short test video of the different mounts. The type of mount is shown after the vibration test. The hard mount is improved by padding it as in the photo below. The mount in the video is on the wing in each case.
https://vimeo.com/134510125 password- owyheeflyer
The padded mounts are two pieces of lexan that are isolated from each other with some foam. One is just padded and bolts are touching the lexan, the next is isolated totally. and the last is just the cradle secured to the wing attach point.
Larry
--
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
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get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
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[quote][b]
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:32 pm Post subject: camera mounts |
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Richard wrote-
"What if you made a mount where your camera mount bracket was something heavy, and then attached the camera to the heavy thing? Mass damping. And then hung that in a way that would neither let it wander around nor transmit vibration? Like using several of the 3/16" mini-bungee cords that Home Depot sells, and the camera mount hanging via them?"
One of the limiting factors for cameras is what I am using it on. If I had a partial wind screen I could perhaps use the solid bracing above my shoulder to do this. I of course have a full canopy. If I were to put it inside of the plane canopy I could keep it still or perhaps use something like your suggestion. However my lexan even when it was new cuts so much quality from the video as to make it worthless.
Outside the plane there are just so many spots to clamp a camera. One of the problems with most cameras is the lens. With the drift, I can turn the lens 360 degrees, so it would be the best for this. I could use the struts or the gear legs. With the Virb I am limited to two angles right side up- upside down. My editing programs will also turn those two angles as well, but not anything other than 90 degrees.
In my testing I tried using the gap seal and found it to be the worst spot on the plane. I considered bracing the gap seal from wing to wing and decided that the possible rewards were not worth the effort.
One of the problems that I had was using some of the plastic "articulating" partsd that came with the Virb to allow one to angle and point the camera. I finally eliminated all of those and braced the cradle and the video is as good as I can ask for.
I finally decided to make a short video of my flight today, just so that you could see the result of my chosen mount.
My flight today was to check on waterholes for the upcoming Antelope season. I don't have a tag this year, but a friend of mine does, so I am checking for him. It starts in a week or so.
I flew 89 miles and the flight took 1 hour and 36 minutes. I burned a bit over 3 gallons of fuel, which is about 30 mpg. I like it a lot. It was a perfect day to fly. It was a bit cool 49 degrees at start up, but smooth as silk. When I got back at 0945 it was just beginning to heat up. The wind had come up to a whole 2.6 MPH out of the north.
https://vimeo.com/134905348 password - owyheeflyer
Larry
On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 6:52 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron(at)charter.net (thegreybaron(at)charter.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net (thegreybaron(at)charter.net)>
Years ago - 1984 ish - I spent the fall making videos using my Maxair Hummer as the camera platform. Rotax 277, so lots of engine vibration. Zero camera vibration, and smooth pictures. I am thinking that the new modern cameras and their lack of mass is working against us.
Back then, I got some EMT and made a swivel mount that attached to the Hummer's rigid gear and downtube, and positioned the camera alongside the fuselage by my left hand. I could use my hand to pivot and aim the camera, I used it on wide angle, and just aimed it in the general direction. Worked amazingly well, bearing in mind that I edited out and threw away a lot of footage.
I was using a camera that probably weighed 3-5 pounds, and was connected by a cable to a 12V VCR that was hung over the CG via a harness. Very old school, mediocre pictures, but that was all there was back then. But here is the deal: that big heavy camera was suspended from the EMT via small diameter bungee cords that transmitted no vibration to the heavy camera. And today, all the cameras weigh nothing. No mass = no mass damping.
What if you made a mount where your camera mount bracket was something heavy, and then attached the camera to the heavy thing? Mass damping. And then hung that in a way that would neither let it wander around nor transmit vibration? Like using several of the 3/16" mini-bungee cords that Home Depot sells, and the camera mount hanging via them?
Don't need to suggest any more details, you get the idea. Attach the camera to something fairly heavy that is shock/vibration isolated from the airplane, that way you cannot have any harmonics.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445387#445387
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:59 am Post subject: Re: camera mounts |
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That one you just posted looks great to me. You might be able to get it better, but I would probably be content with that.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:42 pm Post subject: camera mounts |
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I believe you are right.Larry
On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 10:59 AM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron(at)charter.net (thegreybaron(at)charter.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net (thegreybaron(at)charter.net)>
That one you just posted looks great to me. You might be able to get it better, but I would probably be content with that.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445425#445425
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