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Idea Innovations

Joined: 28 Jul 2015
Posts: 5
Location: Camden and Southern NJ

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:31 am Post subject: Help Needed

Good Morning Everyone on the Europa List



The Camden Youth Aviation Program has recently acquired a partially completed mono-wheel Europa kit which it will be building with with the middle and high school students of LEAP Academy (http://www.leapacademycharter.org/).Once built it is our hope that the young people who helped to build the aircraft would be able to take flight lessons in the aircraft. 



We are looking for volunteers in the Camden, NJ, Greater Philadelphia and Wilmington, DE areas who have experience building the Europa to help lead this project and to work with our young people.  We are also hoping that builders who have completed their aircraft would consider donating their no longer needed tools to us. 



The Camden Youth Aviation Program tries to show the young people of Camden and Southern NJ all aspects of aviation and that there is more to life than what they see in their neighborhoods.  Also by introducing them to aviation, we are hoping to give them something to dream about and to inspire them to rise above the limits of their environment.  The program is open to all Camden and Southern NJ youth who are interested in aviation.  Participation in the Camden Youth Aviation Program is not limited to any one group or organization, but welcomes all young people who are interested in aviation.  Additionally, the Camden Youth Aviation Program tries to act as a resource to schools and youth groups to make them aware of the educational aviation resources that are available to them. The Camden Youth Aviation Program was established under the auspices of the former Camden Police Foundation and the Diocese of Camden's Community Relations Advisory Board.  The Camden Youth Aviation Program is incorporated as a Non-Profit Corporation in the State of NJ and is a certified 501(c)3 non-profit charity.  More information about the Camden Youth Aviation Program can be found on the Camden Youth Aviation Program Facebook page and on our website at www.Camdenyap.org.



Please contact me if you have any questions about the post or if you are willing to help us in any fashion to give inner city and under-served youth the Dream of Flight.



I can be reached off list at camdenyouthaviation(at)live.com or via phone at 856-354-0173. 



Thank You for your time and interest. 



Sincerely, 



Ira Weissman



Co-Founder, Camden Youth Aviation Program

_________________
Giving The Youth Of Camden And Southern New Jersey The Dream Of Flight

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 388
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Help Needed

Considering that it's for youth, presumably with no previous flying experience, if at all possible convert the undercarriage to tricycle. I built my own Europa and have over 600 hours experience with the mono-wheel, but I converted mine to tricycle a couple of years ago because it had twice ground-looped with very experienced friends at the controls.



To quote the designer "The Mono requires an 'above average pilot' stick and rudder wise. The pilots that are 'up to it' love them....others all too often become scared of them and then convert to a tri-gear. All too often before they have invested in some good training!"



While I greatly enjoyed flying mine as a mono-, I wouldn't advocate letting youth learn to fly in one and getting put off flying after experiencing a ground-loop incident. Nobody gets hurt but it's alarming and usually the engine will need shock-load checking plus a new propeller.

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:25 am Post subject: Help Needed

Hi,

I have built a mono Europa from scratch and then flew it for some 1,800 hrs.

I had previously flown many types of gliders and light aircraft, amassing

about 700 hrs power and 1,500 hrs gliding. I was a fully categorised gliding

instructor and have spent 10 yrs as a class rated power instructor for the

Light Aero Association in the UK.

I only mention the above so that you have some idea of the validity of what

I am about to say.

The Mono Europa is not an easy aircraft to land or take off safely. In the

hands of an 'above average experience' pilot with tail dragger hours the

Mono is a delight to fly but challenging. The Mono is definitely not

suitable for early training. Be careful also as I am led to believe that

getting insurance cover for a Mono in the USA is between difficult and

impossible.

Bearing in mind that you appear to already have the kit I would strongly

urge you to consider building it as a Tri-Gear. Unfortunately this would

involve you in some more expense, but it is a much more user friendly

aircraft to fly. 

If you continue to build as a Mono then it is only a matter of time, after

completion, before an incident will occur and whoever was flying it will be

put off flying for life.

One last recommendation is to power the aircraft with the engine it was

designed for, ie Rotax 912 or 914.  Many alternative engines have been

installed in the past but each requires a different 'fire wall forward' kit.

Only the Rotax series of engines can be fitted with the Europa Aircraft

standard kit. The Rotax engine powers most Europas world wide and has proved

to be very reliable.  This last comment cannot be said for certain other

Engines.

If you have need for any further communication then please ask.



Best regards and good wishes for your very commendable project



Pete Jeffers  (LAA Inspector for the Europa Club)



--

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:26 am Post subject: Help Needed

Very well explained Pete, I agree with every word.Graham

 

     On Thursday, 6 August 2015, 9:26, Peter Jeffers <pjeffers(at)talktalk.net> wrote:

   



 



Hi,

I have built a mono Europa from scratch and then flew it for some 1,800 hrs

stranfaer(at)btinternet.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:35 am Post subject: Help Needed

 Hi Pete

Looks like you are having a bit of a "Jab" but at "who"



the other one Sent to you by David Joyce

www.eastmidsspas.com   PLEASE NOTE WE HAVE MOVED AND ARE NOW ATThe Zycomm Building 51 Nottingham Road Ripley Derbys DE5 3AS160 Meters from Sainsbury's Island Same Phone 0800 4102122 and Direct Mobile 07973 675755

 

  

     On Thursday, 6 August 2015, 10:27, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com> wrote:

   



 Very well explained Pete, I agree with every word.Graham

 

     On Thursday, 6 August 2015, 9:26, Peter Jeffers <pjeffers(at)talktalk.net> wrote:

   



 



Hi,

I have built a mono Europa from scratch and then flew it for some 1,800 hrs

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:08 am Post subject: Help Needed

I guess I am not allowed to mention names am I.  You can probably guess though.

Pete

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAVID JOYCE

Sent: 06 August 2015 10:32

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Help Needed

 

 Hi Pete



 



Looks like you are having a bit of a "Jab" but at "who"



 







 



the other one



 



Sent to you by David Joyce

www.eastmidsspas.com  



 



PLEASE NOTE WE HAVE MOVED AND ARE NOW AT



The Zycomm Building 51 Nottingham Road Ripley Derbys DE5 3AS



160 Meters from Sainsbury's Island



 

Same Phone 0800 4102122 and Direct Mobile 07973 675755

[b] [/b]



 

 

 



On Thursday, 6 August 2015, 10:27, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com (grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:



 

Very well explained Pete, I agree with every word.



Graham



 

 



On Thursday, 6 August 2015, 9:26, Peter Jeffers <pjeffers(at)talktalk.net (pjeffers(at)talktalk.net)> wrote:



 

--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Jeffers" <pjeffers(at)talktalk.net (pjeffers(at)talktalk.net)>



Hi,

I have built a mono Europa from scratch and then flew it for some 1,800 hrs.

I had previously flown many types of gliders and light aircraft, amassing

about 700 hrs power and 1,500 hrs gliding. I was a fully categorised gliding

instructor and have spent 10 yrs as a class rated power instructor for the

Light Aero Association in the UK.

I only mention the above so that you have some idea of the validity of what

I am about to say.

The Mono Europa is not an easy aircraft to land or take off safely. In the

hands of an 'above average experience' pilot with tail dragger hours the

Mono is a delight to fly but challenging. The Mono is definitely not

suitable for early training. Be careful also as I am led to believe that

getting insurance cover for a Mono in the USA is between difficult and

impossible.

Bearing in mind that you appear to already have the kit I would strongly

urge you to consider building it as a Tri-Gear. Unfortunately this would

involve you in some more expense, but it is a much more user friendly

aircraft to fly. 

If you continue to build as a Mono then it is only a matter of time, after

completion, before an incident will occur and whoever was flying it will be

put off flying for life.

One last recommendation is to power the aircraft with the engine it was

designed for, ie Rotax 912 or 914.  Many alternative engines have been

installed in the past but each requires a different 'fire wall forward' kit.

Only the Rotax series of engines can be fitted with the Europa Aircraft

standard kit. The Rotax engine powers most Europas world wide and has proved

to be very reliable.  This last comment cannot be said for certain other

Engines.

If you have need for any further communication then please ask.



Best regards and good wishes for your very commendable project



Pete Jeffers  (LAA Inspector for the Europa Club)



--

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Help Needed

Since the OP is in New Jersey, it is important to point

out that experimental home built aircraft are generally

not legal for primary instruction since they may not

be used either for hire, or for commercial purposes, i.e,

for paying a flight instructor. If the CFI volunteers for

the kids, it may be a different story.



At my field, the Candler Field Museum at GA2, we teach kids to 

work on classic and antique aircraft and they earn an hour of flight

instruction for ten hours of work, but they fly a certificated

Cub they reconstructed under A&P supervision. Three of our kids 

have already soloed in it.



Under no circumstance would I attempt primary instruction in a

Europa mono wheel. If you are lucky not to wreck it, you will 

still scare the kids to death.

_________________
Ira N224XS

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Help Needed

Since the OP is in New Jersey, it is important to point

out that experimental home built aircraft are generally

not legal for primary instruction since they may not

be used either for hire, or for commercial purposes, i.e,

for paying a flight instructor. If the CFI volunteers for

the kids, it may be a different story.



At my field, the Candler Field Museum at GA2, we teach kids to 

work on classic and antique aircraft and they earn an hour of flight

instruction for ten hours of work, but they fly a certificated

Cub they reconstructed under A&P supervision. Three of our kids 

have already soloed in it.



Under no circumstance would I attempt primary instruction in a

Europa mono wheel. If you are lucky not to wreck it, you will 

still scare the kids to death.

_________________
Ira N224XS

Idea Innovations

Joined: 28 Jul 2015
Posts: 5
Location: Camden and Southern NJ

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Help Needed

All 



Thank You for your comments and pointing out the dangers of using the Europa for a training aircraft.  I had a chance to fly a Europa once and it was an absolute joy to fly. 



Our thought was to give the students who built the aircraft a chance to fly in it and also handle the aircraft in the air.  There was no intent to actually do any real flight training with the students. 



Thank You all for pointing the dangers that await us in that area. 



Just as a side note for everyone, Sonex Aircraft, LLC holds an FAA Letter of Deviation Authority (LODA) allowing it to provide type-specific transition flight training for the Sonex line of aircraft. The LODA authorizes Sonex Aircraft, LLC to provide training for pilots building, buying or considering a Sonex design. The training is for aircraft familiarization and transition purposes only. Student applicants must already hold a pilot certificate with appropriate category and class rating, as well as any required endorsements. So there is a way to give training in a homebuilt aircraft but it is a very special case. 



For those of you who have completed their Europa's and no longer need their tools we would greatly appreciate it, if you would consider possibly donating your tools to the Camden Youth Aviation Program.  We are a registered 501(c)3 so your donation would be tax deductible. More information about our program can be found on our Facebook page or our website www.camdenyap.org



We have aircraft A189.  I have included some photos of the aircraft. 



Thank You again



Ira

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_________________
Giving The Youth Of Camden And Southern New Jersey The Dream Of Flight

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Help Needed

I certainly wish you and your program the very best of luck!



I believe kids programs like yours, ours, here in Georgia, and the program

at Flabob in California have a significant positive impact on their participants.

In our own little way, we are keeping alive the excitement of aviation in the

next generation (who would mostly just rather play video games).



Here is a link to our most recent newsletter:

http://www.peachstateaero.com/files/1414/3895/4893/AUGUST_2015.pdf



Funny, BTW that you mentioned Sonex.  The EAA donated a Sonex kit

to our program this spring. I was tasked with supervising the building of

the included AeroVee 2.1 engine (read souped-up series 1 volkswagen) from

parts.  Lets just say that there is a fascinating contrast between the AeroVee

and a Rotax

_________________
Ira N224XS

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