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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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 Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:11 am Post subject: Cooling |
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Buds instructions are pretty comprehensive as usual
I shall move the round intake holes up to level with the spinner as suggested.
I would very much like to see any pics of cooling shrouds/ducts. Â the aluminium shrouds on Bud's website look like a lot of work.
thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:30 pm Post subject: Cooling |
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Will,
Only the sealing of the radiators and the opening up of the exit area by moving the firewall are necessary, provided you increase climb speed on long duration climbs. 12AY and most others still cool quite well with just sealing the radiator gaps, leaving the cowl stock, and moving the firewall to behind the nose wheel.
Mono's can use our flat firewall to increase cooling exit air.
If you have long ground taxi, must do max performance angles of climb in 30C or hotter weather, is engine plenum ducting necessary.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
On Aug 11, 2015 9:17 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Buds instructions are pretty comprehensive as usual
I shall move the round intake holes up to level with the spinner as suggested.
I would very much like to see any pics of cooling shrouds/ducts. the aluminium shrouds on Bud's website look like a lot of work.
thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
[quote]
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:48 pm Post subject: Cooling |
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Thanks again Bud,
The thing is that I have the engine installed and the firewall done per the manual. Id be loath to undo it all however if thats what it takes....
Do you have an instruction of how to put the firewall behind the nose gear frame? Or a picture at least. I can imagine roughly how it might be done...im thinking putting in a bulkhead and lining it and the tunnel with firewall blanket. I assume the bottom is not covered allowing the air to exhaust.
Thanks
Will On Aug 11, 2015 4:33 PM, "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote:[quote] Will,
Only the sealing of the radiators and the opening up of the exit area by moving the firewall are necessary, provided you increase climb speed on long duration climbs. 12AY and most others still cool quite well with just sealing the radiator gaps, leaving the cowl stock, and moving the firewall to behind the nose wheel.Â
Mono's can use our flat firewall to increase cooling exit air.
If you have long ground taxi, must do max performance angles of climb in 30C or hotter weather, is engine plenum ducting necessary.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
On Aug 11, 2015 9:17 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Buds instructions are pretty comprehensive as usual
I shall move the round intake holes up to level with the spinner as suggested.
I would very much like to see any pics of cooling shrouds/ducts. Â the aluminium shrouds on Bud's website look like a lot of work.
thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
[b]
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:16 am Post subject: Cooling |
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Will, I missed the earlier stages of this thread, but an alternative approach to the problem is to fit a propeller with a high degree of twist. I had always had cooling issues (like having to shut down & wait for things to cool down if delayed in a queue to take off at a rally) with my low twist Woodcomp SR 2000 prop which were transformed/eliminated on changing to a high twist Woodcomp Sr3000W, quite apart from going faster and more economically. Warp drive blades and most other blades seen on Rotax powered planes have twist (that is difference in incidence between 1/3 radius & tip) of around12 degrees. Simple analysis shows this is about right for sitting still at half throttle. At air speeds of 100kts the central portion of such propellers is working in beta mode effectively diverting air away from the cooling inlets. Look at any WW2 warbird, racer or modern turbo prop and you will find they all have twists of the order of 28 degrees so that at normal operating speeds, the blade is producing effective thrust along its whole length. I will send you, off network,the text of the analysis/comparitive trials published in the Europa mag some years back.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2015-08-11 23:47, William Daniell wrote: [quote]
Thanks again Bud, The thing is that I have the engine installed and the firewall done per the manual. Id be loath to undo it all however if thats what it takes..... Do you have an instruction of how to put the firewall behind the nose gear frame? Or a picture at least. I can imagine roughly how it might be done...im thinking putting in a bulkhead and lining it and the tunnel with firewall blanket. I assume the bottom is not covered allowing the air to exhaust. Thanks Will On Aug 11, 2015 4:33 PM, "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote: | Quote: | Will,
Only the sealing of the radiators and the opening up of the exit area by moving the firewall are necessary, provided you increase climb speed on long duration climbs. 12AY and most others still cool quite well with just sealing the radiator gaps, leaving the cowl stock, and moving the firewall to behind the nose wheel.
Mono's can use our flat firewall to increase cooling exit air.
If you have long ground taxi, must do max performance angles of climb in 30C or hotter weather, is engine plenum ducting necessary.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
On Aug 11, 2015 9:17 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Buds instructions are pretty comprehensive as usual
I shall move the round intake holes up to level with the spinner as suggested.
I would very much like to see any pics of cooling shrouds/ducts. the aluminium shrouds on Bud's website look like a lot of work.
thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT +57 310 295 0744
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
ics.com
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[b]
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:27 pm Post subject: Cooling |
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Will,
I'll dig up some photos when I get back next week. Pretty easy to do with the engine off.
If you want to leave the firewall alone, consider making the exit of the cowl wider as in Cooling 101.
Bud Yerly,
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
On Aug 11, 2015 6:58 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks again Bud,
The thing is that I have the engine installed and the firewall done per the manual. Id be loath to undo it all however if thats what it takes....
Do you have an instruction of how to put the firewall behind the nose gear frame? Or a picture at least. I can imagine roughly how it might be done...im thinking putting in a bulkhead and lining it and the tunnel with firewall blanket. I assume the bottom is not covered allowing the air to exhaust.
Thanks
Will On Aug 11, 2015 4:33 PM, "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote: [quote] Will,
Only the sealing of the radiators and the opening up of the exit area by moving the firewall are necessary, provided you increase climb speed on long duration climbs. 12AY and most others still cool quite well with just sealing the radiator gaps, leaving the cowl stock, and moving the firewall to behind the nose wheel.
Mono's can use our flat firewall to increase cooling exit air.
If you have long ground taxi, must do max performance angles of climb in 30C or hotter weather, is engine plenum ducting necessary.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
On Aug 11, 2015 9:17 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Buds instructions are pretty comprehensive as usual
I shall move the round intake holes up to level with the spinner as suggested.
I would very much like to see any pics of cooling shrouds/ducts. the aluminium shrouds on Bud's website look like a lot of work.
thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
| Quote: | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
onics.com
|
ww.matronics.com/contribution
[b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:05 am Post subject: Cooling |
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Will,
I’m attaching photos here and will post to your off line email if you can’t see them here...
Again, in the US we can modify from the manual so consult your country’s rules.
This works really well for cooling and maintenance.
First photo in the album is the firewall installed with Aircraft Spruce Firewall 2000 kit (P/N 05-00950) material. This can be smooth, depending on the customers patience. See the 2nd to last photo.
Next is the back side of the plywood panel, fuel and brake install details, then more firewall close ups and interior tunnel details...
I also make a brake support bracket for those not wanting to cut the tunnel top. I made this for 12AY when I went from Kart brakes to Matco’s. I’m happy (which is rare).
The 2nd to last photo is of a all stainless steel cover I did over my Aircraft Spruce Firewall material. Overkill but pretty and no slivers as it is all installed with smooth fasteners. Time consuming.
I simply make the cutout for the mono per the manual and then expand it a bit in the aft as I’m lazy and like more room for inserting the springs.
Install the gear frame per the manual and drill it in but don’t bolt it in yet.
Remove the frame and cut a piece of ply to allow the gear frame to be clear, and lean it toward the front to allow room for throttle and brakes.
Flox the corners and glass the front side of the ply with two layers of glass. I glass the back side also for a very strong bulkhead, but glass on the front is all you need.
I also plan a lower access hole to assure maintenance access.
For those who desire to do the reinforcing and cut the top of the tunnel off and make an access panel read on:
I install my brakes on a C shaped support and fit my Matco or Jamar brakes, parking brake, conduits, fuel lines, filters and all that stuff before I put on the top.
For any install:
Install the rudder pedals and plan your rudder cables. You can see I sheath mine in nylaflow tube
I then remove it and fit in my firewall panels sides then top, finally the back piece. Use the tube of Fire seal 2000 supplied in the Aircraft Spruce kit.
Being a purest I normally cut the pieces 1/2 inch over sized, then trim off the back aluminum and fireproofing material, and fold over the stainless over the ugly end. Very neat.
We normally line the entire front side with .016 stainless to make a neat fuel proof seal around the leading edge.
I leave a lip of 1/2 inch around the bottom of the cutout to be able to seal the firewall material at the bottom and make a nice clean belly exit.
Install your rub blocks and press on.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
[url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!755&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:08D41699F93C4B5290F95AE58493E2D9(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=browse&resid=2161856909618AA7!754&parId=2161856909618AA7!130&type=5&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos]Re: Cooling[/url]
[url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!754&parId=2161856909618AA7!130&type=5&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos]VIEW SLIDE SHOW[/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=downloadphotos&resid=2161856909618AA7!754&parId=2161856909618AA7!130&type=5&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8]DOWNLOAD ALL[/url]
This album has 17 photos and will be available on OneDrive until 11/18/2015.
[url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!756&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:4712463FC16043DCBF3C835C43FFF075(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!757&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:7B08298090C94402827FC8BE0FBE4983(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!758&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:FFD2560917524645A767FECF60D93DF9(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!759&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:7667E93B60514A6291953771DC5CED88(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!760&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:226F88455EBE49DA955194DCB1657505(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!761&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:BE273112670F4C0DB9B983CDC83E21CC(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!762&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:66F7E4AAFA674D3BA239207D68A4AA5E(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!763&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:1A46987A6B8B402B8E19BB4F0DE4E463(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!764&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:892A357D9E4C4DDBA9587C89BF6C3A42(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!765&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:7C427E3F37FF406E8332EE316FE7633B(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!766&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:6D6B889CF3E946E9A6B27DABC07E2AF1(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!767&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:278F139853D1443BBCF9D7BB1877FDF0(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!768&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:0742E43DA2044E8DBD49F609D85C37EA(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!769&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:0E6C0362C50D44D8B69618D1F5E2950D(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!770&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:5EC6EBEA12D941A09DB4F138B0457954(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url] [url=https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!771&parId=2161856909618AA7!754&type=1&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&authkey=!AJMmyEAlI6FgRr8][img]cid:5680F25636F444E7A8FFB6C42464C02D(at)PCADMIN13[/img][/url]
From: Bud Yerly (budyerly(at)msn.com)
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 4:25 PM
To: europa-list (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Cooling
Will,
I'll dig up some photos when I get back next week. Pretty easy to do with the engine off.
If you want to leave the firewall alone, consider making the exit of the cowl wider as in Cooling 101.
Bud Yerly,
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
On Aug 11, 2015 6:58 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks again Bud,
The thing is that I have the engine installed and the firewall done per the manual. Id be loath to undo it all however if thats what it takes.....
Do you have an instruction of how to put the firewall behind the nose gear frame? Or a picture at least. I can imagine roughly how it might be done...im thinking putting in a bulkhead and lining it and the tunnel with firewall blanket. I assume the bottom is not covered allowing the air to exhaust.
Thanks
Will On Aug 11, 2015 4:33 PM, "Bud Yerly" <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote: | Quote: | Will,
Only the sealing of the radiators and the opening up of the exit area by moving the firewall are necessary, provided you increase climb speed on long duration climbs. 12AY and most others still cool quite well with just sealing the radiator gaps, leaving the cowl stock, and moving the firewall to behind the nose wheel.
Mono's can use our flat firewall to increase cooling exit air.
If you have long ground taxi, must do max performance angles of climb in 30C or hotter weather, is engine plenum ducting necessary.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
On Aug 11, 2015 9:17 AM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Buds instructions are pretty comprehensive as usual
I shall move the round intake holes up to level with the spinner as suggested.
I would very much like to see any pics of cooling shrouds/ducts. the aluminium shrouds on Bud's website look like a lot of work.
thanks
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
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