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byronmfox(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:14 pm Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
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14 years ago, I'd turn the main air off and come back a week later to
discover there was still 30+ atmospheres (or CMUs - Chinese Mystery
Units - or whatever) still in the plumbing south of the main shutoff
valve.
To maintain this happy state of affairs over time, I've overhauled the
gear actuators, replaced front and back seat gear and flap valves, and
routinely service check and shuttle valves.
That brings us to today. Shut off the main air. Go to lunch. Come back
in 45 minutes. Air in the plumbing - zero. WTF!
So:
1. Balloon tested gear actuators. No seeping.
2. All firewall check valves
overhauled within past month.
3. Pop off valve overhauled.
4. New snot valve.
5. Put a/c on jacks, put front gear and flap handles in neutral
position bleeding off down pressure on gear actuators and up pressure
on flap. Plumbing still bleeding off rapidly.
Granted, this is no big deal. The compressor brings the stored air up
quickly. It's me just being anal.
But before I go through all the check valves again, does anybody have
a bright idea?
Thanks,
Blitz Fox
415-307-2405
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Ernie
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:50 pm Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
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It's all due to global warming. 14 years ago there was a lot less CO2 in the air. Air is mostly nitrogen, and nitrogen is the largest molecule in air, so it has a hard time leaking past seals. But now that we have so much more smaller CO2 molecules in the air, it's now much more slippery than it was 14 years ago, so it leaks past your seals that much more readily.
I installed aCO2 scrubber from a submarine just upstream of my air compressor, in order to fatten up my air.
I also rebuilt my check valves, I found, that they were leaking slightly past the lead washer.
Ernie
On Thursday, August 20, 2015, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: Byron Fox <[url=javascript:;]byronmfox(at)gmail.com[/url]>
14 years ago, I'd turn the main air off and come back a week later to
discover there was still 30+ atmospheres (or CMUs - Chinese Mystery
Units - or whatever) still in the plumbing south of the main shutoff
valve.
To maintain this happy state of affairs over time, I've overhauled the
gear actuators, replaced front and back seat gear and flap valves, and
routinely service check and shuttle valves.
That brings us to today. Shut off the main air. Go to lunch. Come back
in 45 minutes. Air in the plumbing - zero. WTF!
So:
1. Balloon tested gear actuators. No seeping.
W2. All firewall check valves
overhauled within past month.
3. Pop off valve overhauled.
There
4. New snot valve.
5. Put a/c on jacks, put front gear and flap handles in neutral
position bleeding off down pressure on gear actuators and up pressure
on flap. Plumbing still bleeding off rapidly.
Granted, this is no big deal. The compressor brings the stored air up
quickly. It's me just being anal.
But before I go through all the check valves again, does anybody have
a bright idea?
Thanks,
Blitz Fox
415-307-2405
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av8ter
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Nanchang Air System |
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I can and do appreciate the pursuit of perfection in all things that aviate, but this seems like spending 3 hours to find a 2 cent error in your checking account.
I would look at the main air shutoff valve (Stainless?) and possibly the pressure gauge.
Good luck!
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Viperdoc
Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A
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| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:55 pm Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
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Developing a crack in the aluminum lines. Where is the manic question. Leaking around B nuts would be another. Don't forget your new check valves can go TU too.
I'm still chasing a leak in my 52. But, I have only replaced half of my check valves.
I'm getting to old for this! Bring back hydraulics! They freeking leak so you at least get a clue of the general place in the airframe it is coming from! There is enough dried soapy spray in my fuselage to wash the aircraft for a year.
Doc
Doc
Sent from my iPad
| Quote: | On Aug 20, 2015, at 8:05 PM, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com> wrote:
14 years ago, I'd turn the main air off and come back a week later to
discover there was still 30+ atmospheres (or CMUs - Chinese Mystery
Units - or whatever) still in the plumbing south of the main shutoff
valve.
To maintain this happy state of affairs over time, I've overhauled the
gear actuators, replaced front and back seat gear and flap valves, and
routinely service check and shuttle valves.
That brings us to today. Shut off the main air. Go to lunch. Come back
in 45 minutes. Air in the plumbing - zero. WTF!
So:
1. Balloon tested gear actuators. No seeping.
2. All firewall check valves
overhauled within past month.
3. Pop off valve overhauled.
4. New snot valve.
5. Put a/c on jacks, put front gear and flap handles in neutral
position bleeding off down pressure on gear actuators and up pressure
on flap. Plumbing still bleeding off rapidly.
Granted, this is no big deal. The compressor brings the stored air up
quickly. It's me just being anal.
But before I go through all the check valves again, does anybody have
a bright idea?
Thanks,
Blitz Fox
415-307-2405
|
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:22 am Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
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To help you troubleshoot the leak, first fill the air tanks. Immediately after you remove the fill hose connection to the airplane, either spray some soapy water on the external air fill port or put some saliva on the port opening. If it bubbles, you have a leaking check valve. Usually when an air tank leaks down that fast, the check valve that prevents that from happening is remaining open.
As Ernie points out, rebuilding all the check valves (with new SS parts from Doug Sapp) will reduce the probability of having a leaking check valve in the future.
Dennis
From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29(at)gmail.com>
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com" <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: Nanchang Air System
It's all due to global warming. 14 years ago there was a lot less CO2 in the air. Air is mostly nitrogen, and nitrogen is the largest molecule in air, so it has a hard time leaking past seals. But now that we have so much more smaller CO2 molecules in the air, it's now much more slippery than it was 14 years ago, so it leaks past your seals that much more readily.
I installed aCO2 scrubber from a submarine just upstream of my air compressor, in order to fatten up my air.
I also rebuilt my check valves, I found, that they were leaking slightly past the lead washer.
Ernie
On Thursday, August 20, 2015, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: Byron Fox <[url=]byronmfox(at)gmail.com[/url]>
14 years ago, I'd turn the main air off and come back a week later to
discover there was still 30+ atmospheres (or CMUs - Chinese Mystery
Units - or whatever) still in the plumbing south of the main shutoff
valve.
To maintain this happy state of affairs over time, I've overhauled the
gear actuators, replaced front and back seat gear and flap valves, and
routinely service check and shuttle valves.
That brings us to today. Shut off the main air. Go to lunch. Come back
in 45 minutes. Air in the plumbing - zero. WTF!
So:
1. Balloon tested gear actuators. No seeping.
W2. All firewall check valves
overhauled within past month.
3. Pop off valve overhauled.
There
4. New snot valve.
5. Put a/c on jacks, put front gear and flap handles in neutral
position bleeding off down pressure on gear actuators and up pressure
on flap. Plumbing still bleeding off rapidly.
Granted, this is no big deal. The compressor brings the stored air up
quickly. It's me just being anal.
But before I go through all the check valves again, does anybody have
a bright idea?
Thanks,
Blitz Fox
415-307-2405
===========
List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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FORUMS -
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===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
ronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:37 am Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
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Let's talk about the leak at lunch today. I'm sure I can help you troubleshoot and hopefully isolate the cause of the leak.
Dennis
From: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com>
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com" <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: Nanchang Air System
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)>
Developing a crack in the aluminum lines. Where is the manic question. Leaking around B nuts would be another. Don't forget your new check valves can go TU too.
I'm still chasing a leak in my 52. But, I have only replaced half of my check valves.
I'm getting to old for this! Bring back hydraulics! They freeking leak so you at least get a clue of the general place in the airframe it is coming from! There is enough dried soapy spray in my fuselage to wash the aircraft for a year.
Doc
Doc
Sent from my iPad
| Quote: | On Aug 20, 2015, at 8:05 PM, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)>
14 years ago, I'd turn the main air off and come back a week later to
discover there was still 30+ atmospheres (or CMUs - Chinese Mystery
Units - or whatever) still in the plumbing south of the main shutoff
valve.
To maintain this happy state of affairs over time, I've overhauled the
gear actuators, replaced front and back seat gear and flap valves, and
routinely service check and shuttle valves.
That brings us to today. Shut off the main air. Go to lunch. Come back
in 45 minutes. Air in the plumbing - zero. WTF!
So:
1. Balloon tested gear actuators. No seeping.
2. All firewall check valves
overhauled within past month.
3. Pop off valve overhauled.
4. New snot valve.
5. Put a/c on jacks, put front gear and flap handles in neutral
position bleeding off down pressure on gear actuators and up pressure
on flap. Plumbing still bleeding off rapidly.
Granted, this is no big deal. The compressor brings the stored air up
quickly. It's me just being anal.
But before I go through all the check valves again, does anybody have
a bright idea?
Thanks,
Blitz Fox
415-307-2405
&= --> http://forums.matronics.cosp; -nics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut===============
|
[quote][b]
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jackpot
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 65
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:54 am Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
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I just recently found the pressure supply line from the left hand side of rear cockpit from the tee fitting coming thru the floor to the pressure input port of the rear flap control valve. Was leaking, no amount of trying to tighten the "B" nuts on the line would stop the leak. Made a new one of 1/4 inch 5052-0 aluminum tubing. Use AN819-4D sleeve couplings on the new line, and very slightly drill the hole in the Chinese "B" nut to fit the AN819-4D diameter of the U.S. sleeve.
Check the diameter of the U.S. sleeve and drill hole in the "B" nut so the sleeve just slides thru the "B"nut. Works good.
Gary in LAS. CJ N22YK.
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Aug 20, 2015, at 18:05, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com> wrote:
14 years ago, I'd turn the main air off and come back a week later to
discover there was still 30+ atmospheres (or CMUs - Chinese Mystery
Units - or whatever) still in the plumbing south of the main shutoff
valve.
To maintain this happy state of affairs over time, I've overhauled the
gear actuators, replaced front and back seat gear and flap valves, and
routinely service check and shuttle valves.
That brings us to today. Shut off the main air. Go to lunch. Come back
in 45 minutes. Air in the plumbing - zero. WTF!
So:
1. Balloon tested gear actuators. No seeping.
2. All firewall check valves
overhauled within past month.
3. Pop off valve overhauled.
4. New snot valve.
5. Put a/c on jacks, put front gear and flap handles in neutral
position bleeding off down pressure on gear actuators and up pressure
on flap. Plumbing still bleeding off rapidly.
Granted, this is no big deal. The compressor brings the stored air up
quickly. It's me just being anal.
But before I go through all the check valves again, does anybody have
a bright idea?
Thanks,
Blitz Fox
415-307-2405
|
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Ernie
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:07 am Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
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Careful with tightening the B-Nuts, you will flatten and work harden the flare, and it will break. And it won't break immediately, it will break later on after some vibration. I know this first hand, I had one break in flight, and there are points in our air system where if you open the air system, even the Emergency air will leak out and prevent a total gear extension, namely the air supply line in the font cockpit flap valve.
Ernie
On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 8:51 AM, Gary Gabbard <ggg6(at)att.net (ggg6(at)att.net)> wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: Gary Gabbard <ggg6(at)att.net (ggg6(at)att.net)>
I just recently found the pressure supply line from the left hand side of rear cockpit from the tee fitting coming thru the floor to the pressure input port of the rear flap control valve. Was leaking, no amount of trying to tighten the "B" nuts on the line would stop the leak. Made a new one of 1/4 inch 5052-0 aluminum tubing. Use AN819-4D sleeve couplings on the new line, and very slightly drill the hole in the Chinese "B" nut to fit the AN819-4D diameter of the U.S. sleeve.
Check the diameter of the U.S. sleeve and drill hole in the "B" nut so the sleeve just slides thru the "B"nut. Works good.
Gary in LAS. CJ N22YK.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 20, 2015, at 18:05, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)>
>
> 14 years ago, I'd turn the main air off and come back a week later to
> discover there was still 30+ atmospheres (or CMUs - Chinese Mystery
> Units - or whatever) still in the plumbing south of the main shutoff
> valve.
>
> To maintain this happy state of affairs over time, I've overhauled the
> gear actuators, replaced front and back seat gear and flap valves, and
> routinely service check and shuttle valves.
>
> That brings us to today. Shut off the main air. Go to lunch. Come back
> in 45 minutes. Air in the plumbing - zero. WTF!
>
> So:
>
> 1. Balloon tested gear actuators. No seeping.
>
> 2. All firewall check valves
> overhauled within past month.
>
> 3. Pop off valve overhauled.
>
> 4. New snot valve.
>
> 5. Put a/c on jacks, put front gear and flap handles in neutral
> position bleeding off down pressure on gear actuators and up pressure
> on flap. Plumbing still bleeding off rapidly.
>
> Granted, this is no big deal. The compressor brings the stored air up
> quickly. It's me just being anal.
> But before I go through all the check valves again, does anybody have
> a bright idea?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Blitz Fox
> [url=tel:415-307-2405]415-307-2405[/url]
>
>
>
>
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jblake207(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:47 am Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
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I recently experienced a leak in my air system and chased it for weeks... never found it using soapy water method. Using a friend's Freon leak detector, I shot a small amount of Freon into the system (had to do some re-engineering on hoses fittings to make it work with the Freon bottle and airplane Schrader valve) and then filled the system to about 10 atmospheres with compressed air... opened the main air valve to allow the Freon access to the entire system. Using the Freon sniffer, I found a couple of leaks... taking Doug Sapp's advice, used non-hardening aviation grade thread sealant (sort of like Loctite) on the threads, rebuilt a couple of the check valves, replaced the valve core in the Schrader valve (main fill point) with a high pressure valve core... now she holds air.
Freon and freon sniffer were the keys to finding those small irritating leaks.
JB
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Aug 20, 2015, at 18:05, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)>
14 years ago, I'd turn the main air off and come back a week later to
discover there was still 30+ atmospheres (or CMUs - Chinese Mystery
Units - or whatever) still in the plumbing south of the main shutoff
valve.
To maintain this happy state of affairs over time, I've overhauled the
gear actuators, replaced front and back seat gear and flap valves, and
routinely service check and shuttle valves.
That brings us to today. Shut off the main air. Go to lunch. Come back
in 45 minutes. Air in the plumbing - zero. WTF!
So:
1. Balloon tested gear actuators. No seeping.
2. All firewall check valves
overhauled within past month.
3. Pop off valve overhauled.
4. New snot valve.
5. Put a/c on jacks, put front gear and flap handles in neutral
position bleeding off down pressure on gear actuators and up pressure
on flap. Plumbing still bleeding off rapidly.
Granted, this is no big deal. The compressor brings the stored air up
quickly. It's me just being anal.
But before I go through all the check valves again, does anybody have
a bright idea?
Thanks,
Blitz Fox
[url=tel:415-307-2405]415-307-2405[/url]
|
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-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:56 am Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
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As a suggestion, you should really remove the valve core from the external air fill port John. The check valves in the system are there for a reason. They are suppose to prevent the air from dumping overboard. The Schrader valve on the external air fill port is nothing more than an adapter for the hose used to fill the bottles. Just because the Schrader valve comes with a valve core when it was purchased, does not mean it has to remain in the Schrader valve.
I know,...... you're going to say the valve core is a backup. But it also can be a trouble shooting hindrance if one of the check valves protecting the main or emergency air system is leaking. With the valve core out, if the check valve leaks, you'll be able to see bubbles at the external air fill port with just a finger of saliva on the opening or spraying soapy water on the opening.
Dennis
From: "jblake207(at)comcast.net" <jblake207(at)comcast.net>
To: Yak-List <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Nanchang Air System
I recently experienced a leak in my air system and chased it for weeks... never found it using soapy water method. Using a friend's Freon leak detector, I shot a small amount of Freon into the system (had to do some re-engineering on hoses fittings to make it work with the Freon bottle and airplane Schrader valve) and then filled the system to about 10 atmospheres with compressed air... opened the main air valve to allow the Freon access to the entire system. Using the Freon sniffer, I found a couple of leaks... taking Doug Sapp's advice, used non-hardening aviation grade thread sealant (sort of like Loctite) on the threads, rebuilt a couple of the check valves, replaced the valve core in the Schrader valve (main fill point) with a high pressure valve core... now she holds air.
Freon and freon sniffer were the keys to finding those small irritating leaks.
JB
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Aug 20, 2015, at 18:05, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)>
14 years ago, I'd turn the main air off and come back a week later to
discover there was still 30+ atmospheres (or CMUs - Chinese Mystery
Units - or whatever) still in the plumbing south of the main shutoff
valve.
To maintain this happy state of affairs over time, I've overhauled the
gear actuators, replaced front and back seat gear and flap valves, and
routinely service check and shuttle valves.
That brings us to today. Shut off the main air. Go to lunch. Come back
in 45 minutes. Air in the plumbing - zero. WTF!
So:
1. Balloon tested gear actuators. No seeping.
2. All firewall check valves
overhauled within past month.
3. Pop off valve overhauled.
4. New snot valve.
5. Put a/c on jacks, put front gear and flap handles in neutral
position bleeding off down pressure on gear actuators and up pressure
on flap. Plumbing still bleeding off rapidly.
Granted, this is no big deal. The compressor brings the stored air up
quickly. It's me just being anal.
But before I go through all the check valves again, does anybody have
a bright idea?
Thanks,
Blitz Fox
[url=]415-307-2405[/url]
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ronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:57 am Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
|
|
Sometimeswhen you over-tighten a B nut, you'll fracture the flare in the
tubing. Then you'll have to do exactly what Gary did.
If you detect a leak from around a B nut, remove the nut and carefully
examine the tubing flare for a hairline crack. As the B nut is
tightened, the hairline crack gets widerandthus the leak can not be
stopped by tightening the nut.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 8/21/2015 7:51 AM, Gary Gabbard wrote:
| Quote: |
I just recently found the pressure supply line from the left hand side of rear cockpit from the tee fitting coming thru the floor to the pressure input port of the rear flap control valve. Was leaking, no amount of trying to tighten the "B" nuts on the line would stop the leak. Made a new one of 1/4 inch 5052-0 aluminum tubing. Use AN819-4D sleeve couplings on the new line, and very slightly drill the hole in the Chinese "B" nut to fit the AN819-4D diameter of the U.S. sleeve.
Check the diameter of the U.S. sleeve and drill hole in the "B" nut so the sleeve just slides thru the "B"nut. Works good.
Gary in LAS. CJ N22YK.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 20, 2015, at 18:05, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> 14 years ago, I'd turn the main air off and come back a week later to
> discover there was still 30+ atmospheres (or CMUs - Chinese Mystery
> Units - or whatever) still in the plumbing south of the main shutoff
> valve.
>
> To maintain this happy state of affairs over time, I've overhauled the
> gear actuators, replaced front and back seat gear and flap valves, and
> routinely service check and shuttle valves.
>
> That brings us to today. Shut off the main air. Go to lunch. Come back
> in 45 minutes. Air in the plumbing - zero. WTF!
>
> So:
>
> 1. Balloon tested gear actuators. No seeping.
>
> 2. All firewall check valves
> overhauled within past month.
>
> 3. Pop off valve overhauled.
>
> 4. New snot valve.
>
> 5. Put a/c on jacks, put front gear and flap handles in neutral
> position bleeding off down pressure on gear actuators and up pressure
> on flap. Plumbing still bleeding off rapidly.
>
> Granted, this is no big deal. The compressor brings the stored air up
> quickly. It's me just being anal.
> But before I go through all the check valves again, does anybody have
> a bright idea?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Blitz Fox
> 415-307-2405
>
>
|
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jblake207(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:17 am Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
|
|
My CJ doesn't have a check valve at the fill point. I asked Doug and someone else (maybe Blitz or Selby??) and they said some CJs have the check valve there and some don't and no rationale why or why not. I purchased a new check valve and will install it just inside the Schrader valve. JB
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 12:50:01 PM
Subject: Re: Nanchang Air System
As a suggestion, you should really remove the valve core from the external air fill port John. The check valves in the system are there for a reason. They are suppose to prevent the air from dumping overboard. The Schrader valve on the external air fill port is nothing more than an adapter for the hose used to fill the bottles. Just because the Schrader valve comes with a valve core when it was purchased, does not mean it has to remain in the Schrader valve.
I know,...... you're going to say the valve core is a backup. But it also can be a trouble shooting hindrance if one of the check valves protecting the main or emergency air system is leaking. With the valve core out, if the check valve leaks, you'll be able to see bubbles at the external air fill port with just a finger of saliva on the opening or spraying soapy water on the opening.
Dennis
From: "jblake207(at)comcast.net" <jblake207(at)comcast.net>
To: Yak-List <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Nanchang Air System
I recently experienced a leak in my air system and chased it for weeks.. never found it using soapy water method. Using a friend's Freon leak detector, I shot a small amount of Freon into the system (had to do some re-engineering on hoses fittings to make it work with the Freon bottle and airplane Schrader valve) and then filled the system to about 10 atmospheres with compressed air... opened the main air valve to allow the Freon access to the entire system. Using the Freon sniffer, I found a couple of leaks... taking Doug Sapp's advice, used non-hardening aviation grade thread sealant (sort of like Loctite) on the threads, rebuilt a couple of the check valves, replaced the valve core in the Schrader valve (main fill point) with a high pressure valve core... now she holds air.
Freon and freon sniffer were the keys to finding those small irritating leaks.
JB
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Aug 20, 2015, at 18:05, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)>
14 years ago, I'd turn the main air off and come back a week later to
discover there was still 30+ atmospheres (or CMUs - Chinese Mystery
Units - or whatever) still in the plumbing south of the main shutoff
valve.
To maintain this happy state of affairs over time, I've overhauled the
gear actuators, replaced front and back seat gear and flap valves, and
routinely service check and shuttle valves.
That brings us to today. Shut off the main air. Go to lunch. Come back
in 45 minutes. Air in the plumbing - zero. WTF!
So:
1. Balloon tested gear actuators. No seeping.
2. All firewall check valves
overhauled within past month.
3. Pop off valve overhauled.
4. New snot valve.
5. Put a/c on jacks, put front gear and flap handles in neutral
position bleeding off down pressure on gear actuators and up pressure
on flap. Plumbing still bleeding off rapidly.
Granted, this is no big deal. The compressor brings the stored air up
quickly. It's me just being anal.
But before I go through all the check valves again, does anybody have
a bright idea?
Thanks,
Blitz Fox
[url=]415-307-2405[/url]
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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rmhou(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:19 pm Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
|
|
Although it has not happen to me (knock on wood), how do you properly tighten a B-nut without over tighten it?
On Friday, August 21, 2015 11:10 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>
Sometimeswhen you over-tighten a B nut, you'll fracture the flare in the
tubing. Then you'll have to do exactly what Gary did.
If you detect a leak from around a B nut, remove the nut and carefully
examine the tubing flare for a hairline crack. As the B nut is
tightened, the hairline crack gets widerandthus the leak can not be
stopped by tightening the nut.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 8/21/2015 7:51 AM, Gary Gabbard wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: Gary Gabbard <ggg6(at)att.net (ggg6(at)att.net)>
I just recently found the pressure supply line from the left hand side of rear cockpit from the tee fitting coming thru the floor to the pressure input port of the rear flap control valve. Was leaking, no amount of trying to tighten the "B" nuts on the line would stop the leak. Made a new one of 1/4 inch 5052-0 aluminum tubing. Use AN819-4D sleeve couplings on the new line, and very slightly drill the hole in the Chinese "B" nut to fit the AN819-4D diameter of the U.S. sleeve.
Check the diameter of the U.S. sleeve and drill hole in the "B" nut so the sleeve just slides thru the "B"nut. Works good.
Gary in LAS. CJ N22YK.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 20, 2015, at 18:05, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)>
>
> 14 years ago, I'd turn the main air off and come back a week later to
> discover there was still 30+ atmospheres (or CMUs - Chinese Mystery
> Units - or whatever) still in the plumbing south of the main shutoff
> valve.
>
> To maintain this happy state of affairs over time, I've overhauled the
> gear actuators, replaced front and back seat gear and flap valves, and
> routinely service check and shuttle valves.
>
> That brings us to today. Shut off the main air. Go to lunch. Come back
> in 45 minutes. Air in the plumbing - zero. WTF!
>
> So:
>
> 1. Balloon tested gear actuators. No seeping.
>
> 2. All firewall check valves
> overhauled within past month.
>
> 3. Pop off valve overhauled.
>
> 4. New snot valve.
>
> 5. Put a/c on jacks, put front gear and flap handles in neutral
> position bleeding off down pressure on gear actuators and up pressure
> on flap. Plumbing still bleeding off rapidly.
>
> Granted, this is no big deal. The compressor brings the stored air up
> quickly. It's me just being anal.
> But before I go through all the check valves again, does anybody have
> a bright idea?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Blitz Fox
> 415-307-2405
>
>
&="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics  tronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contri================
|
[quote][b]
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:43 pm Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
|
|
It's on the firewall. Regardless of where it's located, it has to have one for each; main and emergency.
Dennis
From: "jblake207(at)comcast.net" <jblake207(at)comcast.net>
To: Yak-List <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: Nanchang Air System
My CJ doesn't have a check valve at the fill point. I asked Doug and someone else (maybe Blitz or Selby??) and they said some CJs have the check valve there and some don't and no rationale why or why not. I purchased a new check valve and will install it just inside the Schrader valve. JB
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 12:50:01 PM
Subject: Re: Nanchang Air System
As a suggestion, you should really remove the valve core from the external air fill port John. The check valves in the system are there for a reason. They are suppose to prevent the air from dumping overboard. The Schrader valve on the external air fill port is nothing more than an adapter for the hose used to fill the bottles. Just because the Schrader valve comes with a valve core when it was purchased, does not mean it has to remain in the Schrader valve.
I know,...... you're going to say the valve core is a backup. But it also can be a trouble shooting hindrance if one of the check valves protecting the main or emergency air system is leaking. With the valve core out, if the check valve leaks, you'll be able to see bubbles at the external air fill port with just a finger of saliva on the opening or spraying soapy water on the opening.
Dennis
From: "jblake207(at)comcast.net" <jblake207(at)comcast.net>
To: Yak-List <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Nanchang Air System
I recently experienced a leak in my air system and chased it for weeks.. never found it using soapy water method. Using a friend's Freon leak detector, I shot a small amount of Freon into the system (had to do some re-engineering on hoses fittings to make it work with the Freon bottle and airplane Schrader valve) and then filled the system to about 10 atmospheres with compressed air... opened the main air valve to allow the Freon access to the entire system. Using the Freon sniffer, I found a couple of leaks... taking Doug Sapp's advice, used non-hardening aviation grade thread sealant (sort of like Loctite) on the threads, rebuilt a couple of the check valves, replaced the valve core in the Schrader valve (main fill point) with a high pressure valve core... now she holds air.
Freon and freon sniffer were the keys to finding those small irritating leaks.
JB
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Aug 20, 2015, at 18:05, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)>
14 years ago, I'd turn the main air off and come back a week later to
discover there was still 30+ atmospheres (or CMUs - Chinese Mystery
Units - or whatever) still in the plumbing south of the main shutoff
valve.
To maintain this happy state of affairs over time, I've overhauled the
gear actuators, replaced front and back seat gear and flap valves, and
routinely service check and shuttle valves.
That brings us to today. Shut off the main air. Go to lunch. Come back
in 45 minutes. Air in the plumbing - zero. WTF!
So:
1. Balloon tested gear actuators. No seeping.
2. All firewall check valves
overhauled within past month.
3. Pop off valve overhauled.
4. New snot valve.
5. Put a/c on jacks, put front gear and flap handles in neutral
position bleeding off down pressure on gear actuators and up pressure
on flap. Plumbing still bleeding off rapidly.
Granted, this is no big deal. The compressor brings the stored air up
quickly. It's me just being anal.
But before I go through all the check valves again, does anybody have
a bright idea?
Thanks,
Blitz Fox
[url=]415-307-2405[/url]
|
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wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:53 pm Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
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All CJ’s have a check valves in the charging circuits. Technically they are “check valve – non-return” as compared to “check valve – restricted flow”. The Schrader valve is simply a local modification to enable charging with western facilities. The Schrader valve core is totally unnecessary.
Walt
From: jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:13 AM
To: Yak-List (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Nanchang Air System
My CJ doesn't have a check valve at the fill point. I asked Doug and someone else (maybe Blitz or Selby??) and they said some CJs have the check valve there and some don't and no rationale why or why not. I purchased a new check valve and will install it just inside the Schrader valve. JB
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 12:50:01 PM
Subject: Re: Nanchang Air System
As a suggestion, you should really remove the valve core from the external air fill port John. The check valves in the system are there for a reason. They are suppose to prevent the air from dumping overboard. The Schrader valve on the external air fill port is nothing more than an adapter for the hose used to fill the bottles. Just because the Schrader valve comes with a valve core when it was purchased, does not mean it has to remain in the Schrader valve.
I know,...... you're going to say the valve core is a backup. But it also can be a trouble shooting hindrance if one of the check valves protecting the main or emergency air system is leaking. With the valve core out, if the check valve leaks, you'll be able to see bubbles at the external air fill port with just a finger of saliva on the opening or spraying soapy water on the opening.
Dennis
From: "jblake207(at)comcast.net" <jblake207(at)comcast.net>
To: Yak-List <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nanchang Air System
I recently experienced a leak in my air system and chased it for weeks... never found it using soapy water method. Using a friend's Freon leak detector, I shot a small amount of Freon into the system (had to do some re-engineering on hoses fittings to make it work with the Freon bottle and airplane Schrader valve) and then filled the system to about 10 atmospheres with compressed air... opened the main air valve to allow the Freon access to the entire system. Using the Freon sniffer, I found a couple of leaks... taking Doug Sapp's advice, used non-hardening aviation grade thread sealant (sort of like Loctite) on the threads, rebuilt a couple of the check valves, replaced the valve core in the Schrader valve (main fill point) with a high pressure valve core... now she holds air.
Freon and freon sniffer were the keys to finding those small irritating leaks.
JB
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Aug 20, 2015, at 18:05, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)>
14 years ago, I'd turn the main air off and come back a week later to
discover there was still 30+ atmospheres (or CMUs - Chinese Mystery
Units - or whatever) still in the plumbing south of the main shutoff
valve.
To maintain this happy state of affairs over time, I've overhauled the
gear actuators, replaced front and back seat gear and flap valves, and
routinely service check and shuttle valves.
That brings us to today. Shut off the main air. Go to lunch. Come back
in 45 minutes. Air in the plumbing - zero. WTF!
So:
1. Balloon tested gear actuators. No seeping.
2. All firewall check valves
overhauled within past month.
3. Pop off valve overhauled.
4. New snot valve.
5. Put a/c on jacks, put front gear and flap handles in neutral
position bleeding off down pressure on gear actuators and up pressure
on flap. Plumbing still bleeding off rapidly.
Granted, this is no big deal. The compressor brings the stored air up
quickly. It's me just being anal.
But before I go through all the check valves again, does anybody have
a bright idea?
Thanks,
Blitz Fox
[url=wlmailhtml:{4BDF1C21-8E5B-4DC4-89CE-E2201F0E6BA7}mid://00000124/]415-307-2405[/url]
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:49 am Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
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Guys (& gals)
Let's keep Dough & Katharine Sapp in our prayers. They are right in the middle of those west coast fires and are fighting to keep everything they own from being destroyed.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Sent from my iPad from some where on The 3rd rock from the Sun.
On Aug 22, 2015, at 0:50, "Walter Lannon" <wlannon(at)shaw.ca (wlannon(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
[quote] All CJ’s have a check valves in the charging circuits. Technically they are “check valve – non-return” as compared to “check valve – restricted flow”. The Schrader valve is simply a local modification to enable charging with western facilities. The Schrader valve core is totally unnecessary.
Walt
From: jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:13 AM
To: Yak-List (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Nanchang Air System
My CJ doesn't have a check valve at the fill point. I asked Doug and someone else (maybe Blitz or Selby??) and they said some CJs have the check valve there and some don't and no rationale why or why not. I purchased a new check valve and will install it just inside the Schrader valve. JB
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 12:50:01 PM
Subject: Re: Nanchang Air System
As a suggestion, you should really remove the valve core from the external air fill port John. The check valves in the system are there for a reason. They are suppose to prevent the air from dumping overboard. The Schrader valve on the external air fill port is nothing more than an adapter for the hose used to fill the bottles. Just because the Schrader valve comes with a valve core when it was purchased, does not mean it has to remain in the Schrader valve.
I know,...... you're going to say the valve core is a backup. But it also can be a trouble shooting hindrance if one of the check valves protecting the main or emergency air system is leaking. With the valve core out, if the check valve leaks, you'll be able to see bubbles at the external air fill port with just a finger of saliva on the opening or spraying soapy water on the opening.
Dennis
From: "jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)" <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)>
To: Yak-List <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nanchang Air System
I recently experienced a leak in my air system and chased it for weeks.. never found it using soapy water method. Using a friend's Freon leak detector, I shot a small amount of Freon into the system (had to do some re-engineering on hoses fittings to make it work with the Freon bottle and airplane Schrader valve) and then filled the system to about 10 atmospheres with compressed air... opened the main air valve to allow the Freon access to the entire system. Using the Freon sniffer, I found a couple of leaks... taking Doug Sapp's advice, used non-hardening aviation grade thread sealant (sort of like Loctite) on the threads, rebuilt a couple of the check valves, replaced the valve core in the Schrader valve (main fill point) with a high pressure valve core... now she holds air.
Freon and freon sniffer were the keys to finding those small irritating leaks.
JB
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Aug 20, 2015, at 18:05, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)>
14 years ago, I'd turn the main air off and come back a week later to
discover there was still 30+ atmospheres (or CMUs - Chinese Mystery
Units - or whatever) still in the plumbing south of the main shutoff
valve.
To maintain this happy state of affairs over time, I've overhauled the
gear actuators, replaced front and back seat gear and flap valves, and
routinely service check and shuttle valves.
That brings us to today. Shut off the main air. Go to lunch. Come back
in 45 minutes. Air in the plumbing - zero. WTF!
So:
1. Balloon tested gear actuators. No seeping.
2. All firewall check valves
overhauled within past month.
3. Pop off valve overhauled.
4. New snot valve.
5. Put a/c on jacks, put front gear and flap handles in neutral
position bleeding off down pressure on gear actuators and up pressure
on flap. Plumbing still bleeding off rapidly.
Granted, this is no big deal. The compressor brings the stored air up
quickly. It's me just being anal.
But before I go through all the check valves again, does anybody have
a bright idea?
Thanks,
Blitz Fox
[url=wlmailhtml:{4BDF1C21-8E5B-4DC4-89CE-E2201F0E6BA7}mid://00000124/]415-307-2405[/url]
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mmlipaz(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:49 am Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
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| Quote: | Our prayers are with the Sapp family in this time of fire storms that threatens their area.
Michael "Pipes" Li-Paz.
The Tiger squadron. |
Sent from my iPad
[quote][b]
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hess737(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:00 am Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
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Same here. Doug let us know how you're doing.
Richard HessC 404-964-4885
On Aug 23, 2015, at 9:44 AM, Michael Li-Paz <mmlipaz(at)gmail.com (mmlipaz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] | Quote: | Our prayers are with the Sapp family in this time of fire storms that threatens their area.
Michael "Pipes" Li-Paz.
The Tiger squadron. |
Sent from my iPad
[b]
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byronmfox(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:17 am Post subject: Nanchang Air System |
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Many thanks to all of you for your comments. I'll report back.
Blitz Fox415-307-2405
On Aug 21, 2015, at 9:50 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca (wlannon(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
[quote] All CJ’s have a check valves in the charging circuits. Technically they are “check valve – non-return” as compared to “check valve – restricted flow”. The Schrader valve is simply a local modification to enable charging with western facilities. The Schrader valve core is totally unnecessary.
Walt
From: jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:13 AM
To: Yak-List (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Nanchang Air System
My CJ doesn't have a check valve at the fill point. I asked Doug and someone else (maybe Blitz or Selby??) and they said some CJs have the check valve there and some don't and no rationale why or why not. I purchased a new check valve and will install it just inside the Schrader valve. JB
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 12:50:01 PM
Subject: Re: Nanchang Air System
As a suggestion, you should really remove the valve core from the external air fill port John. The check valves in the system are there for a reason. They are suppose to prevent the air from dumping overboard. The Schrader valve on the external air fill port is nothing more than an adapter for the hose used to fill the bottles. Just because the Schrader valve comes with a valve core when it was purchased, does not mean it has to remain in the Schrader valve.
I know,...... you're going to say the valve core is a backup. But it also can be a trouble shooting hindrance if one of the check valves protecting the main or emergency air system is leaking. With the valve core out, if the check valve leaks, you'll be able to see bubbles at the external air fill port with just a finger of saliva on the opening or spraying soapy water on the opening.
Dennis
From: "jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)" <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)>
To: Yak-List <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nanchang Air System
I recently experienced a leak in my air system and chased it for weeks.. never found it using soapy water method. Using a friend's Freon leak detector, I shot a small amount of Freon into the system (had to do some re-engineering on hoses fittings to make it work with the Freon bottle and airplane Schrader valve) and then filled the system to about 10 atmospheres with compressed air... opened the main air valve to allow the Freon access to the entire system. Using the Freon sniffer, I found a couple of leaks... taking Doug Sapp's advice, used non-hardening aviation grade thread sealant (sort of like Loctite) on the threads, rebuilt a couple of the check valves, replaced the valve core in the Schrader valve (main fill point) with a high pressure valve core... now she holds air.
Freon and freon sniffer were the keys to finding those small irritating leaks.
JB
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Aug 20, 2015, at 18:05, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)>
14 years ago, I'd turn the main air off and come back a week later to
discover there was still 30+ atmospheres (or CMUs - Chinese Mystery
Units - or whatever) still in the plumbing south of the main shutoff
valve.
To maintain this happy state of affairs over time, I've overhauled the
gear actuators, replaced front and back seat gear and flap valves, and
routinely service check and shuttle valves.
That brings us to today. Shut off the main air. Go to lunch. Come back
in 45 minutes. Air in the plumbing - zero. WTF!
So:
1. Balloon tested gear actuators. No seeping.
2. All firewall check valves
overhauled within past month.
3. Pop off valve overhauled.
4. New snot valve.
5. Put a/c on jacks, put front gear and flap handles in neutral
position bleeding off down pressure on gear actuators and up pressure
on flap. Plumbing still bleeding off rapidly.
Granted, this is no big deal. The compressor brings the stored air up
quickly. It's me just being anal.
But before I go through all the check valves again, does anybody have
a bright idea?
Thanks,
Blitz Fox
[url=wlmailhtml:{4BDF1C21-8E5B-4DC4-89CE-E2201F0E6BA7}mid://00000124/]415-307-2405[/url]
|
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===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
[b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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