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lyleapgmc
Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Posts: 57
|
 Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:24 pm Post subject: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
 |
|
Admissibility of NTSB reports depends. Basically federal laws says,
"No." However the courts have determined that depending on the source
of the information, how it is delivered to the court and what part of
the report it is contained in the NTSB report may be admissible while
other parts would be considered hearsay.
More information and discussion can be found at:
http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/masstorts/articles/summer2013-0813-crash-reports-what-will-jury-hear.html
and
http://www.aviationlawmonitor.com/articles/ntsb/
I searched for "NTSB findings admissible in court"
There are many discussions and interesting cases. Many are in PDF form
and with all the click thru links attached and other nonsense the link
becomes unmanageable. The PDF file will download to your computer to be
viewed in Adobe Reader.
For those interested.
Lyle
On 10/22/2015 5:20 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
| Quote: |
I queried the AYA Safety Director .... knowledgeable in many aviation
matters and here's answer:
One comment was that NTSB accident investigation data is not admissible
in court. Is this true?
[Levy] Sort of. Factual information gathered by NTSB investigators is
admissible. Conclusions based on that information are not -- the jury
draws its own conclusions.
Should be a slam-dunk with those pictures. But the lawyers still come
out on top.
Linn
On 10/20/2015 4:39 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
>
> flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com wrote:
>> On 10/20/2015 2:33 PM, bruceflys wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> NTSB reports are not admissible in court.
>>> I did not know that.
>>>
>> Can you direct me to where you found that???
>> Linn
>
> I do not have a reference but I'm pretty sure this is correct. NTSB
> didn't want the cost of getting involved, so Congress specifically
> exempted their findings from being used in civil lawsuits. The
> lawyers have to duplicate the findings at their own expense (that is,
> the clients' expense).
>
> --------
> Bob Turner
> RV-10 QB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448141#448141
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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dmasys
Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 22
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:58 am Post subject: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
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|
Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed by
hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and good
citizenship of the company?
What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone should
institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation damage
they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions played
out in the media before the case is tried.
-Dan Masys
Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US
From: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com>
Subject: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response to my
email to the entire list.
I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the rest of
the RV10 owners.
You can send your comments to support(at)vansaircraft.com
<mailto:support(at)vansaircraft.com>. That=92s where I sent mine and Scott is
the one who answered.
grumpy
| Quote: | Begin forwarded message:
From: srisan(at)vansaircraft.com
Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT
To: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com>
John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can
really take the wind out of
|
| Quote: | your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad
for our economy and society.
|
| Quote: | As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for this
accident. It's sad that
|
| Quote: | the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily.
Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van.
Best,
Scott Risan
Van's Aircraft
> Dear Dick and all of your employees,
>
> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company
and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year.
|
| Quote: | >
> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that these
lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a big
|
settlement from your insurance company.
| Quote: | >
> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was
filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law makes it
|
both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tell the
story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for installation of
the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together.
| Quote: | >
> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8.
Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the best as
|
is your customer service and tech support.
| Quote: | >
> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too much
pain.
|
| Quote: | >
> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you
100%!
|
| Quote: | >
> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me!
>
> John Miller
> Tullahoma, TN
>
> RV10 40404
> RV8 83329
>
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2878
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:11 am Post subject: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
|
|
Hey, that's not a bad idea. If someone writes up a good statement I bet we can get at least a few hundred RV10 builders and probably a few thousand RV builders.
Tim
| Quote: | On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Dan Masys <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu> wrote:
Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed by
hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and good
citizenship of the company?
What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone should
institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation damage
they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions played
out in the media before the case is tried.
-Dan Masys
Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US
From: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com>
Subject: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response to my
email to the entire list.
I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the rest of
the RV10 owners.
You can send your comments to support(at)vansaircraft.com
<mailto:support(at)vansaircraft.com>. That=92s where I sent mine and Scott is
the one who answered.
grumpy
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: srisan(at)vansaircraft.com
> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT
> To: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com>
>
> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can
really take the wind out of
> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad
for our economy and society.
> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for this
accident. It's sad that
> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily.
>
> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van.
>
> Best,
> Scott Risan
> Van's Aircraft
>
>> Dear Dick and all of your employees,
>>
>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company
and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year.
>>
>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that these
lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a big
settlement from your insurance company.
>>
>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was
filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law makes it
both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tell the
story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for installation of
the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together.
>>
>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8.
Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the best as
is your customer service and tech support.
>>
>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too much
pain.
>>
>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you
100%!
>>
>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me!
>>
>> John Miller
>> Tullahoma, TN
>>
>> RV10 40404
>> RV8 83329
>>
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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gengrumpy
Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 131
Location: Tullahoma, TN
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:20 am Post subject: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
|
|
Maybe one of our fellow RV builders who is an attorney can get the ball rolling for us. I’d sure as heck sign it.
grumpy
| Quote: | On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:
Hey, that's not a bad idea. If someone writes up a good statement I bet we can get at least a few hundred RV10 builders and probably a few thousand RV builders.
Tim
> On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Dan Masys <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed by
> hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and good
> citizenship of the company?
>
> What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone should
> institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation damage
> they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions played
> out in the media before the case is tried.
>
> -Dan Masys
> Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US
> From: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com>
> Subject: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
>
> For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response to my
> email to the entire list.
>
> I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the rest of
> the RV10 owners.
>
> You can send your comments to support(at)vansaircraft.com
> <mailto:support(at)vansaircraft.com>. That=92s where I sent mine and Scott is
> the one who answered.
>
> grumpy
>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> From: srisan(at)vansaircraft.com
>> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
>> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT
>> To: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com>
>>
>> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can
> really take the wind out of
>> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad
> for our economy and society.
>> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for this
> accident. It's sad that
>> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily.
>>
>> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van.
>>
>> Best,
>> Scott Risan
>> Van's Aircraft
>>
>>> Dear Dick and all of your employees,
>>>
>>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company
> and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year.
>>>
>>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that these
> lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a big
> settlement from your insurance company.
>>>
>>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was
> filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law makes it
> both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tell the
> story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for installation of
> the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together.
>>>
>>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8.
> Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the best as
> is your customer service and tech support.
>>>
>>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too much
> pain.
>>>
>>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you
> 100%!
>>>
>>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me!
>>>
>>> John Miller
>>> Tullahoma, TN
>>>
>>> RV10 40404
>>> RV8 83329
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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flyboy(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:23 am Post subject: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
|
|
I think it's a great idea. Surely there's a lawyer lurking in our midst who could help draft one? I think good points to address would be the quality of builder support available from vans, and the general standard of care the community is known to take. We'd probably need to do this soon for it to matter at all.
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
Hey, that's not a bad idea. If someone writes up a good statement I bet we can get at least a few hundred RV10 builders and probably a few thousand RV builders.
Tim
> On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Dan Masys <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu (dmasys(at)u.washington.edu)> wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Masys" <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu (dmasys(at)u.washington.edu)>
>
> Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed by
> hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and good
> citizenship of the company?
>
> What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone should
> institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation damage
> they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions played
> out in the media before the case is tried.
>
> -Dan Masys
> Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play
>
> ________________________________Â Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US
> From: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com (gengrumpy(at)aol.com)>
> Subject: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
>
> For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response to my
> email to the entire list.
>
> I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the rest of
> the RV10 owners.
>
> You can send your comments to support(at)vansaircraft.com (support(at)vansaircraft.com)
> <mailto:support(at)vansaircraft.com (support(at)vansaircraft.com)>. That=92s where I sent mine and Scott is
> the one who answered.
>
> grumpy
>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> From: srisan(at)vansaircraft.com (srisan(at)vansaircraft.com)
>> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
>> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT
>> To: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com (gengrumpy(at)aol.com)>
>>
>> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can
> really take the wind out of
>> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad
> for our economy and society.
>> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for this
> accident. It's sad that
>> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily.
>>
>> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van.
>>
>> Best,
>> Scott Risan
>> Van's Aircraft
>>
>>> Dear Dick and all of your employees,
>>>
>>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company
> and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year.
>>>
>>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that these
> lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a big
> settlement from your insurance company.
>>>
>>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was
> filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law makes it
> both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tell the
> story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for installation of
> the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together.
>>>
>>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8.
> Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the best as
> is your customer service and tech support.
>>>
>>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too much
> pain.
>>>
>>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you
> 100%!
>>>
>>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me!
>>>
>>> John Miller
>>> Tullahoma, TN
>>>
>>> RV10 40404
>>> RV8 83329
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
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bbreckenridge(at)gmail.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:40 am Post subject: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
|
|
There's plenty of us reading these emails. Keep it going and I'm sure more will jump on board if an action takes place.
Bruce
40018
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Berck E. Nash <flyboy(at)gmail.com (flyboy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]I think it's a great idea. Surely there's a lawyer lurking in our midst who could help draft one? I think good points to address would be the quality of builder support available from vans, and the general standard of care the community is known to take. We'd probably need to do this soon for it to matter at all.
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
Hey, that's not a bad idea. If someone writes up a good statement I bet we can get at least a few hundred RV10 builders and probably a few thousand RV builders.
Tim
> On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Dan Masys <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu (dmasys(at)u.washington.edu)> wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Masys" <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu (dmasys(at)u.washington.edu)>
>
> Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed by
> hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and good
> citizenship of the company?
>
> What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone should
> institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation damage
> they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions played
> out in the media before the case is tried.
>
> -Dan Masys
> Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play
>
> ________________________________Â Message 4
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US
> From: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com (gengrumpy(at)aol.com)>
> Subject: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
>
> For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response to my
> email to the entire list.
>
> I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the rest of
> the RV10 owners.
>
> You can send your comments to support(at)vansaircraft.com (support(at)vansaircraft.com)
> <mailto:support(at)vansaircraft.com (support(at)vansaircraft.com)>. That=92s where I sent mine and Scott is
> the one who answered.
>
> grumpy
>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> From: srisan(at)vansaircraft.com (srisan(at)vansaircraft.com)
>> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
>> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT
>> To: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com (gengrumpy(at)aol.com)>
>>
>> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can
> really take the wind out of
>> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad
> for our economy and society.
>> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for this
> accident. It's sad that
>> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily.
>>
>> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van.
>>
>> Best,
>> Scott Risan
>> Van's Aircraft
>>
>>> Dear Dick and all of your employees,
>>>
>>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company
> and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year.
>>>
>>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that these
> lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a big
> settlement from your insurance company.
>>>
>>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was
> filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law makes it
> both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tell the
> story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for installation of
> the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together.
>>>
>>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8.
> Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the best as
> is your customer service and tech support.
>>>
>>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too much
> pain.
>>>
>>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you
> 100%!
>>>
>>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me!
>>>
>>> John Miller
>>> Tullahoma, TN
>>>
>>> RV10 40404
>>> RV8 83329
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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arplnplt(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:04 am Post subject: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
|
|
I’m in.
Dave Leikam
N89DA
40496
| Quote: | On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Bruce Breckenridge <bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com (bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
There's plenty of us reading these emails. Keep it going and I'm sure more will jump on board if an action takes place.
Bruce 40018
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Berck E. Nash <flyboy(at)gmail.com (flyboy(at)gmail.com)> wrote: | Quote: | I think it's a great idea. Surely there's a lawyer lurking in our midst who could help draft one? I think good points to address would be the quality of builder support available from vans, and the general standard of care the community is known to take. We'd probably need to do this soon for it to matter at all.
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote: | Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>Hey, that's not a bad idea. If someone writes up a good statement I bet we can get at least a few hundred RV10 builders and probably a few thousand RV builders.Tim> On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Dan Masys <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu (dmasys(at)u.washington.edu)> wrote:>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Masys" <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu (dmasys(at)u.washington.edu)>>> Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed by> hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and good> citizenship of the company?>> What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone should> institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation damage> they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions played> out in the media before the case is tried.>> -Dan Masys> Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play>> ________________________________ Message 4> _____________________________________>>> Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US> From: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com (gengrumpy(at)aol.com)>> Subject: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit>> For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response to my> email to the entire list.>> I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the rest of> the RV10 owners.>> You can send your comments to support(at)vansaircraft.com (support(at)vansaircraft.com)> <mailto:support(at)vansaircraft.com (support(at)vansaircraft.com)>. That=92s where I sent mine and Scott is> the one who answered.>> grumpy>>> Begin forwarded message:>>>> From: srisan(at)vansaircraft.com (srisan(at)vansaircraft.com)>> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit>> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT>> To: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com (gengrumpy(at)aol.com)>>>>> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can> really take the wind out of>> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad> for our economy and society.>> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for this> accident. It's sad that>> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily.>>>> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van.>>>> Best,>> Scott Risan>> Van's Aircraft>>>>> Dear Dick and all of your employees,>>>>>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company> and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year.>>>>>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that these> lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a big> settlement from your insurance company.>>>>>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was> filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law makes it> both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tell the> story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for installation of> the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together.>>>>>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8.> Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the best as> is your customer service and tech support.>>>>>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too much> pain.>>>>>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you> 100%!>>>>>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me!>>>>>> John Miller>>> Tullahoma, TN>>>>>> RV10 40404>>> RV8 83329>>>>>>>>===========-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List===========FORUMS -eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com===========b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution===========
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:38 am Post subject: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
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Me too.
Jesse SaintSaint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 24, 2015, at 2:00 PM, David Leikam <arplnplt(at)gmail.com (arplnplt(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]I’m in.
Dave Leikam
N89DA
40496
| Quote: | On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Bruce Breckenridge <bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com (bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
There's plenty of us reading these emails. Keep it going and I'm sure more will jump on board if an action takes place.
Bruce 40018
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Berck E. Nash <flyboy(at)gmail.com (flyboy(at)gmail.com)> wrote: | Quote: | I think it's a great idea. Surely there's a lawyer lurking in our midst who could help draft one? I think good points to address would be the quality of builder support available from vans, and the general standard of care the community is known to take. We'd probably need to do this soon for it to matter at all.
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote: | Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>Hey, that's not a bad idea. If someone writes up a good statement I bet we can get at least a few hundred RV10 builders and probably a few thousand RV builders.Tim> On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Dan Masys <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu (dmasys(at)u.washington.edu)> wrote:>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Masys" <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu (dmasys(at)u.washington.edu)>>> Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed by> hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and good> citizenship of the company?>> What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone should> institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation damage> they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions played> out in the media before the case is tried.>> -Dan Masys> Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play>> ________________________________ Message 4> _____________________________________>>> Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US> From: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com (gengrumpy(at)aol.com)>> Subject: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit>> For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response to my> email to the entire list.>> I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the rest of> the RV10 owners.>> You can send your comments to support(at)vansaircraft.com (support(at)vansaircraft.com)> <mailto:support(at)vansaircraft.com (support(at)vansaircraft.com)>. That=92s where I sent mine and Scott is> the one who answered.>> grumpy>>> Begin forwarded message:>>>> From: srisan(at)vansaircraft.com (srisan(at)vansaircraft.com)>> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit>> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT>> To: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com (gengrumpy(at)aol.com)>>>>> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can> really take the wind out of>> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad> for our economy and society.>> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for this> accident. It's sad that>> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily.>>>> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van.>>>> Best,>> Scott Risan>> Van's Aircraft>>>>> Dear Dick and all of your employees,>>>>>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company> and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year.>>>>>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that these> lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a big> settlement from your insurance company.>>>>>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was> filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law makes it> both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tell the> story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for installation of> the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together.>>>>>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8.> Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the best as> is your customer service and tech support.>>>>>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too much> pain.>>>>>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you> 100%!>>>>>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me!>>>>>> John Miller>>> Tullahoma, TN>>>>>> RV10 40404>>> RV8 83329>>>>>>>>===========-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List===========FORUMS -eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com===========b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution===========
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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rv10pro(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:49 pm Post subject: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
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Without maligning scores of builders out there. The message should be that Experimental Built Aircraft are NOT Part 23 Certificated Production Aircraft and any builder using RTV rubber sealant in their fuel system needs to stop and seek free EAA Technical Assistance. Atta Boy's for VANS does not reduce the accident, incident and loss of life rate one IOTA.
Too often we see stupidity in a build and then I am reminded that each builder makes the decisions and choices "they ultimately OWN". VANS is only a well respected parts provider. I have yet to find them supplying RTV or recommending its use on fuel fittings.
Portland, Oregon attorneys will litigate anyone and anything  - anytime to "Keep Portland WEIRD".
John Cox
On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 11:00 AM, David Leikam <arplnplt(at)gmail.com (arplnplt(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]I’m in.
Dave Leikam
N89DA
40496
| Quote: | On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Bruce Breckenridge <bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com (bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
There's plenty of us reading these emails. Keep it going and I'm sure more will jump on board if an action takes place.
BruceÂ
40018
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Berck E. Nash <flyboy(at)gmail.com (flyboy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I think it's a great idea. Surely there's a lawyer lurking in our midst who could help draft one? I think good points to address would be the quality of builder support available from vans, and the general standard of care the community is known to take. We'd probably need to do this soon for it to matter at all.
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
Hey, that's not a bad idea. If someone writes up a good statement I bet we can get at least a few hundred RV10 builders and probably a few thousand RV builders.
Tim
| Quote: | On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Dan Masys <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu (dmasys(at)u.washington.edu)> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Masys" <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu (dmasys(at)u.washington.edu)>
Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed by
hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and good
citizenship of the company?
What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone should
institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation damage
they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions played
out in the media before the case is tried.
-Dan Masys
Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play
________________________________Â Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US
From: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com (gengrumpy(at)aol.com)>
Subject: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response to my
email to the entire list.
I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the rest of
the RV10 owners.
You can send your comments to support(at)vansaircraft.com (support(at)vansaircraft.com)
<mailto:support(at)vansaircraft.com (support(at)vansaircraft.com)>. That=92s where I sent mine and Scott is
the one who answered.
grumpy
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From:Â srisan(at)vansaircraft.com (srisan(at)vansaircraft.com)
> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT
> To: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com (gengrumpy(at)aol.com)>
>
> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can
really take the wind out of
> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad
for our economy and society.
> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for this
accident. It's sad that
> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily.
>
> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van.
>
> Best,
> Scott Risan
> Van's Aircraft
>
>> Dear Dick and all of your employees,
>>
>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company
and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year.
>>
>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that these
lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a big
settlement from your insurance company.
>>
>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was
filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law makes it
both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tell the
story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for installation of
the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together.
>>
>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8.
Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the best as
is your customer service and tech support.
>>
>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too much
pain.
>>
>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you
100%!
>>
>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me!
>>
>> John Miller
>> Tullahoma, TN
>>
>> RV10 40404
>> RV8 83329
>>
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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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larkrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:54 pm Post subject: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
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Been talking to some Canadian RV10er's and we all feel the same. Van's doesn't deserve this BS lawsuit. Count us in too......
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
Final assembly in progress.........
On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 9:45 PM, John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com (rv10pro(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]Without maligning scores of builders out there. The message should be that Experimental Built Aircraft are NOT Part 23 Certificated Production Aircraft and any builder using RTV rubber sealant in their fuel system needs to stop and seek free EAA Technical Assistance. Atta Boy's for VANS does not reduce the accident, incident and loss of life rate one IOTA.
Too often we see stupidity in a build and then I am reminded that each builder makes the decisions and choices "they ultimately OWN". VANS is only a well respected parts provider. I have yet to find them supplying RTV or recommending its use on fuel fittings.
Portland, Oregon attorneys will litigate anyone and anything  - anytime to "Keep Portland WEIRD".
John Cox
On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 11:00 AM, David Leikam <arplnplt(at)gmail.com (arplnplt(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I’m in.
Dave Leikam
N89DA
40496
| Quote: | On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Bruce Breckenridge <bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com (bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
There's plenty of us reading these emails. Keep it going and I'm sure more will jump on board if an action takes place.
BruceÂ
40018
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Berck E. Nash <flyboy(at)gmail.com (flyboy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I think it's a great idea. Surely there's a lawyer lurking in our midst who could help draft one? I think good points to address would be the quality of builder support available from vans, and the general standard of care the community is known to take. We'd probably need to do this soon for it to matter at all.
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 8:08 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
Hey, that's not a bad idea. If someone writes up a good statement I bet we can get at least a few hundred RV10 builders and probably a few thousand RV builders.
Tim
| Quote: | On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Dan Masys <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu (dmasys(at)u.washington.edu)> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Masys" <dmasys(at)u.washington.edu (dmasys(at)u.washington.edu)>
Would it be worth considering creation of an amicus brief co-signed by
hundreds of us RV-10 builder-pilots about the quality of the kit, and good
citizenship of the company?
What the lawyers say about Vans is nothing short of libel; someone should
institute a counter-suit against them for $35M for the reputation damage
they cause to the entire industry by such ill-considered assertions played
out in the media before the case is tried.
-Dan Masys
Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I do recognize foul play
________________________________Â Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 07:56:54 AM PST US
From: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com (gengrumpy(at)aol.com)>
Subject: Fwd: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
For the list, Scott has given me permission to forward his response to my
email to the entire list.
I suspect that Van would appreciate such additional support from the rest of
the RV10 owners.
You can send your comments to support(at)vansaircraft.com (support(at)vansaircraft.com)
<mailto:support(at)vansaircraft.com (support(at)vansaircraft.com)>. That=92s where I sent mine and Scott is
the one who answered.
grumpy
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From:Â srisan(at)vansaircraft.com (srisan(at)vansaircraft.com)
> Subject: Re: The Oregon RV10 lawsuit
> Date: October 21, 2015 at 9:30:18 AM CDT
> To: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com (gengrumpy(at)aol.com)>
>
> John, We very much appreciate your support. Suits like these can
really take the wind out of
> your sales. It's bad for us, it's bad for the industry and it's bad
for our economy and society.
> As you said, the NTSB 'probable cause' is very likely spot on for this
accident. It's sad that
> the loss of life and injuries could have been avoided so easily.
>
> Again, thanks for the support. I'll pass your email on to Van.
>
> Best,
> Scott Risan
> Van's Aircraft
>
>> Dear Dick and all of your employees,
>>
>> I read with dismay the lawsuit that was filed against your company
and FlowScan over the fatal RV10 crash in Oregon last year.
>>
>> After reading the actual court filed papers, it is obvious that these
lawyers are nothing but ambulance chasing crooks and are out to get a big
settlement from your insurance company.
>>
>> What a bunch of hogwash in their allegations. And to think it was
filed on behalf of the deceased pilot/builder=B4s daughter-in-law makes it
both sad and unbelievable. The NTSB pictures of the installation tell the
story loud and clear that he neither followed the plans for installation of
the fuel system nor understood how to put fuel lines together.
>>
>> I am one of your early RV10 builders, and am now building an RV8.
Your kits, and the engineering work behind them, are absolutely the best as
is your customer service and tech support.
>>
>> I hope that you can withstand this frivolous lawsuit without too much
pain.
>>
>> There are thousands of happy RV builders world-wide who support you
100%!
>>
>> If you need support from an "amateur" builder, please call on me!
>>
>> John Miller
>> Tullahoma, TN
>>
>> RV10 40404
>> RV8 83329
>>
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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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tp://forums.matronics.com
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Lenny Iszak
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
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Count me in too,
Lenny
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Hugo
Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:08 am Post subject: Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
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Hey Guys
At This point I thinks all the necessary ingredients are here to start a serious
Action to stop before this attack against home built community start,
And I thinks some member with a good idea of communications can be involved
Every body ,regardless of plane they built.
Because this is not against Vans,it's against the future of our rights to build our planes and use with some relative freedom.
Then ,my first idea , and I hope plenty will come.
Is choose the person will hold the money,yes we need money,
I will start to donate to the future trust account a 11 ft brand new roll up inflatable boat for auction ( cost 3k) ,for start the donations.
It's my first action idea,
,one note ,we need to be careful and not allow the big boys for not profit to
Hijack the real reasons why we do this.
Hope some one agree we need to act immediately ,and start shooting real action ideas.
Please forgive my writing accent.
Hugo
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philperry9
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:56 am Post subject: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
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I think we all are wasting our time doing anything unless we are cooperating with the legal team representing Vans.
We can sign documents, make statements, do whatever we want. But if it doesn't fit in their plan and their message and their strategy, then we're accomplishing nothing significant.
A better approach is to work with the legal team, present what we can offer, and let them write the document in their words (if they choose to present it), with their points they want to reenforce, and make sure that any efforts we make actually dovetail with their strategy.
A document drafted by their legal team can be guaranteed to support their message. A document draft from the outside could submarine their points and potentially case.
It's better to coordinate with those actually representing those in the court room.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Oct 25, 2015, at 10:08 AM, Hugo <Gommone7(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
Hey Guys
At This point I thinks all the necessary ingredients are here to start a serious
Action to stop before this attack against home built community start,
And I thinks some member with a good idea of communications can be involved
Every body ,regardless of plane they built.
Because this is not against Vans,it's against the future of our rights to build our planes and use with some relative freedom.
Then ,my first idea , and I hope plenty will come.
Is choose the person will hold the money,yes we need money,
I will start to donate to the future trust account a 11 ft brand new roll up inflatable boat for auction ( cost 3k) ,for start the donations.
It's my first action idea,
,one note ,we need to be careful and not allow the big boys for not profit to
Hijack the real reasons why we do this.
Hope some one agree we need to act immediately ,and start shooting real action ideas.
Please forgive my writing accent.
Hugo
--------
My wife it's always right
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448268#448268
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2878
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:22 am Post subject: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
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+1 on that. Very sensible.
Tim
Ps: with so many anti aviation things these days I feel we have a responsibility to participate when we can. Like when EAA and AOPA do
The calls to action, I try to actually send faxes and emails to my elected representatives. It may not work, but what will never work is being silent.
So if someone does indeed take this to the legal team and there is a mass signed letter, I'm in. It never pays to be silent.
| Quote: | On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:35 AM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> wrote:
I think we all are wasting our time doing anything unless we are cooperating with the legal team representing Vans.
We can sign documents, make statements, do whatever we want. But if it doesn't fit in their plan and their message and their strategy, then we're accomplishing nothing significant.
A better approach is to work with the legal team, present what we can offer, and let them write the document in their words (if they choose to present it), with their points they want to reenforce, and make sure that any efforts we make actually dovetail with their strategy.
A document drafted by their legal team can be guaranteed to support their message. A document draft from the outside could submarine their points and potentially case.
It's better to coordinate with those actually representing those in the court room.
Phil
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 25, 2015, at 10:08 AM, Hugo <Gommone7(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hey Guys
> At This point I thinks all the necessary ingredients are here to start a serious
> Action to stop before this attack against home built community start,
> And I thinks some member with a good idea of communications can be involved
> Every body ,regardless of plane they built.
> Because this is not against Vans,it's against the future of our rights to build our planes and use with some relative freedom.
> Then ,my first idea , and I hope plenty will come.
> Is choose the person will hold the money,yes we need money,
> I will start to donate to the future trust account a 11 ft brand new roll up inflatable boat for auction ( cost 3k) ,for start the donations.
> It's my first action idea,
> ,one note ,we need to be careful and not allow the big boys for not profit to
> Hijack the real reasons why we do this.
> Hope some one agree we need to act immediately ,and start shooting real action ideas.
> Please forgive my writing accent.
> Hugo
>
> --------
> My wife it's always right
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448268#448268
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jchang10
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:59 am Post subject: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
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I also like perusing some other non-RV aviation forums, and it seems
that 95+% of the comments are highly critical of the lawsuit. I think
everyone in GA recognizes this is an attack not just on RV's or EAB's
but on GA in general as well. It harkens back to the legal shenanigans
on the industry back in 1985. In addition in the NTSB report, there is
mention of electrical failure, screens going black, and i think everyone
agrees a stall spin into the ground. Those are all things any airplane
could potentially experience. It seems like the whole of GA is highly
critical against this suit.
--
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011
do not archive
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Hugo
Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
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Hi Phill
You see ,with your approach the bad guys and the standard legal system already win,
Let me tell you how this will go so we don't waste any more effort in discuss and do nothing.
The insurance will send a good guy to talk with the bad guy,the bad guy will try to waste the more time as possible, as you know they charge by hour.
Then after hundred of billing hours the good guy and the bad guy will seat at the table with the Mediator and after another 10 or more hours they will arrange may be 5 million to suck from the insurance.
At this point the bad guy already billed the unfortunate lady 4.8 mill
The insurance will have a bill may be for 3 mill.
Vans will receive an increase in the premium because they built very unsafe kits; the other insurance will rise the premium to all kit companies because now they can be suit and on ,and on......
Guess who loose.
The guys who dream to build a plane in the garage.
I can go for days here to explain how the legal system works.
Now.
If really any body can suit any body here it's the catch in our favor.
May be there is a good guy in this list who built an Rv or any other kit and remember what he swear when he graduate and could tell us how (independently of this lawsuit to Vans)
We can go after this bad guy and start make him loosing money and time
And defend our rights.
Because after all we are in the Land of the Free
And we have freedom of Speech .......or it's only for the Show?
For the records:
10 years ago we hire a good guy(girl) with 10 k we collected from neighbors
And we stop a development behind our houses.
I thinks if we can act as a single entity and suit this guy ,we can send a good
Message,
Who knows
May be Cessna; Cirrus; AFS and others who can be affected or punish for the some times corrupt legal system may join us!
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philperry9
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:17 pm Post subject: $35M Lawsuit was Re: NTSB - Probable Cause |
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The problem is that if you don't work with them to on the document, it will never get admitted in court. You can't just walk in there and drop it on the table.Â
On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 3:08 PM, Hugo <Gommone7(at)bellsouth.net (Gommone7(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Hugo" <Gommone7(at)bellsouth.net (Gommone7(at)bellsouth.net)>
Hi Phill
You see ,with your approach the bad guys and the standard legal system already win,
Let me tell you how this will go so we don't waste any more effort in discuss and do nothing.
The insurance will send a good guy to talk with the bad guy,the bad guy will try to waste the more time as possible, as you know they charge by hour.
Then after hundred of billing hours the good guy and the bad guy will seat at the table with the Mediator and after another 10 or more hours they will arrange may be 5 million to suck from the insurance.
At this point the bad guy already billed the unfortunate lady 4.8 mill
The insurance will have a bill may be for 3 mill.
Vans will receive an increase in the premium because they built very unsafe kits; the other insurance will rise the premium to all kit companies because now they can be suit and on ,and on......
Guess who loose.
The guys who dream to build a plane in the garage.
I can go for days here to explain how the legal system works.
Now.
If really any body can suit any body here it's the catch in our favor.
May be there is a good guy in this list who built an Rv or any other kit and remember what he swear when he graduate and could tell us how (independently of this lawsuit to Vans)
We can go after this bad guy and start make him loosing money and time
And defend our rights.
Because after all we are in the Land of the Free
And we have freedom of Speech .......or it's only for the Show?
For the records:
10 years ago we hire a good guy(girl) with 10 k we collected from neighbors
And we stop a development behind our houses.
I thinks if we can act as a single entity and suit this guy ,we can send a good
Message,
Who knows
May be Cessna; Cirrus; AFS and others who can be affected or punish for the some times corrupt legal system may join us!
--------
My wife it's always right
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448276#448276
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