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Yak 55M vs Yak 55

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Jay Hodge

Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 27

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:32 pm Post subject: Yak 55M vs Yak 55

Hey Guys,



For those of you who have flown both the 55 and the 55M, what are the differences? I've flown a M a number of times, but never had the opportunity to fly a straight 55.



Thanks,



Jay

Epistaxis

Joined: 19 Dec 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Nebraska, USA

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Yak 55M vs Yak 55

Jay:   The wing is shorter on the 55M = better roll rate/ the 55= better rate of climb... There are some minor systems changes as well. That's the simple explanation.....

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:31 am Post subject: Yak 55M vs Yak 55

I have had quite long conversations with Slava Kongratiev about this, and

interesting since he designed the 55. He was then poached to Sukhoi and

designed the 26 for them. In his absence, Yakovlev felt they needed a quick

response to this newcomer on the aerobatic scene, and somewhat as a

panic-measure, simply cut 1 m of each wing with the aim of increasing the

rate of roll.



Neither of the Yak test pilots on the project, Misha Moltchianuk and

Vladimir Makagonov (who continue to work for Slava today) liked the

resultant aircraft, saying that the purity of handling had been destroyed,

and in particular the very high induced drag under G meant that the aircraft

would typically lose more height than the 55 flying the same sequence.



Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5 3LW



Tel:  +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com

--

Jay Hodge

Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 27

Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: Yak 55M vs Yak 55

Thanks guys, the M I flew was a nice flying airplane, I was just wondering how the straight 55 stacked up to it.



Jay

dcrogers11

Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 12

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Yak 55M vs Yak 55

If the advertised roll rate is 345 degrees/sec on the M, what would be a good number for roll rate on the straight 55?  And what were the few minor differences mentioned besides the wing?

Thanks,

Don

rmross

Joined: 28 Oct 2015
Posts: 5

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Yak 55M vs Yak 55

I have seen an on-line reference which states that the 55 has a roll rate of 4 rad/sec, which is about 230 deg/sec.

rmross

Joined: 28 Oct 2015
Posts: 5

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Yak 55M vs Yak 55

BTW, there is a long-wing Yak 55 in Illinois which is currently listed for sale on Barnstormers.  It was previously based in Europe, where it had some decent competition results in both the Intermediate and Advanced categories.

Jay Hodge

Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 27

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Yak 55M vs Yak 55

Thanks for the heads up on the Illinois long wing. Last week I was in touch with the seller. I'll be back in the States tomorrow, and hope to work out a time to go see it next week. There is an M out in Oregon that I'm interested in as well. That's why I was looking for impressions from people who have time in both. I really like the way the M flys, but what if I like the 55 better? With a nice example of each type out there, it just seems like its a sign from the Gods!



Jay

rmross

Joined: 28 Oct 2015
Posts: 5

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Yak 55M vs Yak 55

Yes, both the Oregon and Illinois planes would be worth looking at.  I suspect additional 55/55M's will come on the market this winter.  Earlier this year there were 3 or 4 listed for sale at the same time.  There was one in western TN that I was interested in, but it sold before I was able to get out and take a look.  Good luck.



Rick

William Halverson

Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 88

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:04 pm Post subject: Yak 55M vs Yak 55

Please let me start by saying my interest in acro predates my doing acro by a long time.  The interest started in music, ballet, figure skating, and flying for the Navy.  But I did own a long wing for ten years, and she was my love.



Like skating, all acro routines start with 100 and lose points there after.  We all strive for 100, but how can we measure it from the ground?



The ideal is a machine that combines power, agility, and gives the pilot the possibility of adding grace to achieve winning scores, no?



But grace is subjective, and scores are not.  



Having owned a 55, I have known the grace, and traced the accuracy possible via smoke, of what they can do.  I know a 55m or a Su26 have their own.  They support support faster everything, and that may be important.



But I fear that scores have become primary, and worry that grace has suffered. For people that attend ballet, the analogy is clear.



Imagine a brick, a flying brick.  Something with remarkable spin, climb characteristics.  Something that could trace out Aresti curves in 3D with complete fidelity.  Is that what we want to pilot?  The community sets categories, sportsman, intermediate, etc., but i don't know if it is possible to include the subjective into the categorization process.



Fencing, saber fencing, has also endured a debate between form and scores.  I left that scene years ago and don't know the outcome, but the argument is similar in that some things score, but are ugly.  Who can judge ugly, yet we recognize it when we see it.



I suspect the future of aerobatics lies in the use of drones to show what happens when a pilot and his mount, are one.  Besides the tracing of 3D curves, future scoring systems may also include a factor for artistry or whatever.  None of these ramblings are new ... 



So back to the issue, and thank you for allowing the preceding digression: 



Know what your machine can do - and design your program accordingly ...



For me, the ballet capabilities of my 55 outweighed the scoring potential of other machines.  



She still is in my dreams!



Best wishes for straight lines, and calm winds.

Typos courtesy of Siri



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 29, 2015, at 20:38, Jay Hodge <hodgejw(at)aol.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Thanks for the heads up on the Illinois long wing. Last week I was in touch with the seller. I'll be back in the States tomorrow, and hope to work out a time to go see it next week. There is an M out in Oregon that I'm interested in as well. That's why I was looking for impressions from people who have time in both. I really like the way the M flys, but what if I like the 55 better? With a nice example of each type out there, it just seems like its a sign from the Gods!

 

 Jay

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448365#448365

dcrogers11

Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 12

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Yak 55M vs Yak 55

230 degrees/sec is quite a bit of difference from 345/sec.  I'm leaning more to the M for this reason.  I may be totally wrong, but you can manage energy in the M, but you're stuck with a slower roll rate in the 55.  I guess it all boils down to preference.  



Don

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:46 am Post subject: Yak 55M vs Yak 55

My personal view is that the figures are more likely to be 260°/sec and

320°/sec. The disparity is nothing like as large as between 230 and 345 – I

am sure these figures are very incorrect!



Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5 3LW



Tel:  +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com

--

Jay Hodge

Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 27

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Yak 55M vs Yak 55

What are the numbers on the roll rate of the 52?

rmross

Joined: 28 Oct 2015
Posts: 5

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Yak 55M vs Yak 55

Hey Jay,



That 230 deg/s number was just something I read in some Yak specs online -- it may not be accurate.  Richard and others would have better information I am sure.



I tried to send you a PM, but I don't think it went through.  If you get a chance please email me at rmross at carolina dot rr dot com.  Cheers,



Rick

Epistaxis

Joined: 19 Dec 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Nebraska, USA

Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Yak 55M vs Yak 55

Jay, The best systems change on the M was to change from rigid alum. fuel lines thru the fuselage to flexible lines, less chance of cracking. I`ve owned my 55 for 18 years. Having flown the M as well, I`m prejudiced toward the 55.  Also be advised that the M went out of production in 1993, There are many "New 55Ms" being advertised, built from 1994 and newer.  Some of these A/C have Issues with the wing attach bolts not fitting properly and egging out the  spar attach holes over time. For lack of a better term they were bits and pieces thrown together. Also there was a fellow here in Nebraska who was modifying the seat back to recline more than factory. He used hardware store bolts and hinges to do this on several A/C, some of them collapsing during maneuvers,  Hopefully these have been repaired but it is something to watch out for. Hope this helps a bit more for your quest...

Jay Hodge

Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 27

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Yak 55M vs Yak 55

Epistaxis,



Thanks for the info, sent you a PM



Jay

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