 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:46 pm Post subject: Alternator Overvoltage |
 |
|
On a recent flight in my rv-4, my overvoltage relay (crowbar) apparently functioned properly as it tripped my field circuit breaker taking the alternator off line. Upon landing and checking, the problem would reoccur whenever the breaker was reset. I assumed the original voltage regulator had failed (1990 Van's unit). The alternator is a small 35 amp unit (from a mid 70's Honda Civic I believe). Unable to find an identical voltage regulator, I purchased a VR 440 unit from NAPA, and wired as suggested by previous posts on other lists. The problem reoccurred the same as before. My questions are: could this problem be related to the alternator itself, or might I have inadvertently purchased a defective voltage regulator. I believe the alternator is functioning because I measured its output with the field wired directly to the battery and saw 19+ volts. Any suggestions?
Ivan Haecker
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jluckey(at)pacbell.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:18 pm Post subject: Alternator Overvoltage |
|
|
Ivan,
Could the problem be the over-voltage module? Do you have a way to bench test the module?
Using a variable DC power supply you should be able to determine the trip point of your OVM. That's where I would start based upon your description.
-Jeff
On Monday, November 23, 2015 3:59 PM, Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com> wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)>
On a recent flight in my rv-4, my overvoltage relay (crowbar) apparently functioned properly as it tripped my field circuit breaker taking the alternator off line. Upon landing and checking, the problem would reoccur whenever the breaker was reset. I assumed the original voltage regulator had failed (1990 Van's unit). The alternator is a small 35 amp unit (from a mid 70's Honda Civic I believe). Unable to find an identical voltage regulator, I purchased a VR 440 unit from NAPA, and wired as suggested by previous posts on other lists. The problem reoccurred the same as before. My questions are: could this problem be related to the alternator itself, or might I have inadvertently purchased a defective voltage regulator. I believe the alternator is functioning because I measured its output with the field wired directly to the battery and saw 19+ volts. Any s.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/connbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List<; http://forums.sp; - List Contribution Web Site -
_; &nb://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.c===================
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:18 pm Post subject: Alternator Overvoltage |
|
|
Next thing I'd try is to see if the alternator is still outputting
current and high voltage with the field disconnected to verify no
internal field problem.
Note that some of the Japanese alternators of that era were controlled
with the regulator on the positive side of the field rather than on the
negative side as per most alternators and most regulators.
Ken
On 23/11/2015 6:43 PM, Ivan wrote:
| Quote: |
On a recent flight in my rv-4, my overvoltage relay (crowbar) apparently functioned properly as it tripped my field circuit breaker taking the alternator off line. Upon landing and checking, the problem would reoccur whenever the breaker was reset. I assumed the original voltage regulator had failed (1990 Van's unit). The alternator is a small 35 amp unit (from a mid 70's Honda Civic I believe). Unable to find an identical voltage regulator, I purchased a VR 440 unit from NAPA, and wired as suggested by previous posts on other lists. The problem reoccurred the same as before. My questions are: could this problem be related to the alternator itself, or might I have inadvertently purchased a defective voltage regulator. I believe the alternator is functioning because I measured its output with the field wired directly to the battery and saw 19+ volts. Any suggestions?
Ivan Haecker
|
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:38 pm Post subject: Alternator Overvoltage |
|
|
I'd find the proper hookup diagram for both the alternator that you have, and the regulator that you're using. There's at least an outside chance something isn't hooked up correctly, since it's a different model regulator. What voltage do you measure if you disable the OV module & leave the regulator in the circuit?
On 11/23/2015 6:16 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
| Quote: | Ivan,
Could the problem be the over-voltage module? Do you have a way to bench test the module?Â
Using a variable DC power supply you should be able to determine the trip point of your OVM. That's where I would start based upon your description.
-Jeff
On Monday, November 23, 2015 3:59 PM, Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com> (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com) wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)>
On a recent flight in my rv-4, my overvoltage relay (crowbar) apparently functioned properly as it tripped my field circuit breaker taking the alternator off line. Upon landing and checking, the problem would reoccur whenever the breaker was reset. I assumed the original voltage regulator had failed (1990 Van's unit). The alternator is a small 35 amp unit (from a mid 70's Honda Civic I believe). Unable to find an identical voltage regulator, I purchased a VR 440 unit from NAPA, and wired as suggested by previous posts on other lists. The problem reoccurred the same as before. My questions are: could this problem be related to the alternator itself, or might I have inadvertently purchased a defective voltage regulator. I believe the alternator is functioning because I measured its output with the field wired directly to the battery and saw 19+ volts. Any s.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/connbsp;       -Matt Dralle, List Admin.http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List<; http://forums.sp;      - List Contribution Web Site -
_; Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â &nb://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.c===================
|
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1922
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator Overvoltage |
|
|
Does the field circuit breaker trip with the engine NOT running?
If yes, then suspect the over voltage module or a wire shorted to ground.
If it only trips with the engine running, does it trip at idle RPM?
If it trips only at higher RPM, then the regulator is not working.
It is unlikely that the alternator is at fault.
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
_________________
Joe Gores |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:58 pm Post subject: Alternator Overvoltage |
|
|
Yes, I'm sure it the voltage regulator is wired correctly as I just checked Bob's Z-11 diagram. I have also checked the alternator with the ov module disconnected and the voltage regulator in the circuit. Still producing about 19 volts at 1000 rpm. I haven't tested the ov module trip point, but obviously without it in the circuit, the voltage is too high. If it is not the alternator, I just feel I must have a bad original voltage regulator and a bad new replacement. I don't know how to test a voltage regulator though.
Ivan Haecker
On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 6:36 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I'd find the proper hookup diagram for both the alternator that you have, and the regulator that you're using. There's at least an outside chance something isn't hooked up correctly, since it's a different model regulator. What voltage do you measure if you disable the OV module & leave the regulator in the circuit?
On 11/23/2015 6:16 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
| Quote: | Ivan,
Could the problem be the over-voltage module? Do you have a way to bench test the module?Â
Using a variable DC power supply you should be able to determine the trip point of your OVM. That's where I would start based upon your description.
-Jeff
On Monday, November 23, 2015 3:59 PM, Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com> (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com) wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ivan <hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)>
On a recent flight in my rv-4, my overvoltage relay (crowbar) apparently functioned properly as it tripped my field circuit breaker taking the alternator off line. Upon landing and checking, the problem would reoccur whenever the breaker was reset. I assumed the original voltage regulator had failed (1990 Van's unit). The alternator is a small 35 amp unit (from a mid 70's Honda Civic I believe). Unable to find an identical voltage regulator, I purchased a VR 440 unit from NAPA, and wired as suggested by previous posts on other lists. The problem reoccurred the same as before. My questions are: could this problem be related to the alternator itself, or might I have inadvertently purchased a defective voltage regulator. I believe the alternator is functioning because I measured its output with the field wired directly to the battery and saw 19+ volts. Any s.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/connbsp;       -Matt Dralle, List Admin.http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List<; http://forums.sp;      - List Contribution Web Site -
_; Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â &nb://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.c===================
|
|
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1922
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator Overvoltage |
|
|
| Quote: | | Still producing about 19 volts at 1000 rpm. |
The problem is either the voltage regulator or its related circuit. Using the voltage regulator case (or regulator ground terminal) as a reference point (not the airframe or battery negative), measure the voltage on the regulator "sense" terminal. If that voltage is higher than 14.5 volts with the engine running, then the regulator is bad. If the voltage is not higher than 14.5, then there is a bad connection someplace.
The alternator on-off switch or circuit breaker contacts or a wire terminal could be corroded.
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
_________________
Joe Gores |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:57 pm Post subject: Alternator Overvoltage |
|
|
If you're seeing 19V on a regulated 14V system, then either the reg is bad or something isn't hooked up correctly.
Most auto parts stores will test alternators and regulators for free these days (at least Autozone will). Just take the suspect reg to them & ask them to test it. You may need to tell them what 'car' it was installed on.  Just find a model that used that regulator & tell them that.
BTW, I'd certainly pull the breakers or fuses on *all* electrical load items in the plane while doing your in-plane testing.....
On 11/23/2015 8:57 PM, H. Ivan Haecker wrote:
| Quote: | Yes, I'm sure it the voltage regulator is wired correctly as I just checked Bob's Z-11 diagram. I have also checked the alternator with the ov module disconnected and the voltage regulator in the circuit. Still producing about 19 volts at 1000 rpm. I haven't tested the ov module trip point, but obviously without it in the circuit, the voltage is too high. If it is not the alternator, I just feel I must have a bad original voltage regulator and a bad new replacement. I don't know how to test a voltage regulator though.
Ivan Haecker
On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 6:36 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I'd find the proper hookup diagram for both the alternator that you have, and the regulator that you're using. There's at least an outside chance something isn't hooked up correctly, since it's a different model regulator. What voltage do you measure if you disable the OV module & leave the regulator in the circuit?
On 11/23/2015 6:16 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
| Quote: | Ivan,
Could the problem be the over-voltage module? Do you have a way to bench test the module?Â
Using a variable DC power supply you should be able to determine the trip point of your OVM. That's where I would start based upon your description.
-Jeff
On Monday, November 23, 2015 3:59 PM, Ivan [url=mailto:hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com]<hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com> (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)[/url] wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ivan <[url=mailto:hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com]hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)[/url]>
On a recent flight in my rv-4, my overvoltage relay (crowbar) apparently functioned properly as it tripped my field circuit breaker taking the alternator off line. Upon landing and checking, the problem would reoccur whenever the breaker was reset. I assumed the original voltage regulator had failed (1990 Van's unit). The alternator is a small 35 amp unit (from a mid 70's Honda Civic I believe). Unable to find an identical voltage regulator, I purchased a VR 440 unit from NAPA, and wired as suggested by previous posts on other lists. The problem reoccurred the same as before. My questions are: could this problem be related to the alternator itself, or might I have inadvertently purchased a defective voltage regulator. I believe the alternator is functioning because I measured its output with the field wired directly to the battery and saw 19+ volts. Any s.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/connbsp;       -Matt Dralle, List Admin.http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List<; http://forums.sp;      - List Contribution Web Site -
_; Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â &nb://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.c===================
|
|
|
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:23 pm Post subject: Alternator Overvoltage |
|
|
I finally got back to my overvoltage problem. Today, I checked to see if the field circuit would trip my breaker with the engine not running. It did not. I decided to to reinstall my original voltage regulator since the VR 440 appeared to not be working properly due to the 19+ volts when I ran my last test. Now, the original regulator functions properly and the regulated voltage shows 14.6 without the OV module in the circuit throughout the rpm range. When I reinstalled the OV module, it tripped the field breaker every time I cycled it. I now feel I should get the OV module tested to see what it's trip point is as some list responders suggested. My current assumption is that my OV module has been the culprit all along. When it originally began tripping in flight, I assumed it was my regulator and bought the replacement unit from NAPA. Since it apparently was DOA right out of the box, I mistakenly blamed it for my problem.
I really appreciate the help from you guys.
Ivan Haecker
On Nov 23, 2015, at 10:15 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | If you're seeing 19V on a regulated 14V system, then either the reg is bad or something isn't hooked up correctly.
Most auto parts stores will test alternators and regulators for free these days (at least Autozone will). Just take the suspect reg to them & ask them to test it. You may need to tell them what 'car' it was installed on. Just find a model that used that regulator & tell them that.
BTW, I'd certainly pull the breakers or fuses on *all* electrical load items in the plane while doing your in-plane testing.....
On 11/23/2015 8:57 PM, H. Ivan Haecker wrote:
| Quote: | Yes, I'm sure it the voltage regulator is wired correctly as I just checked Bob's Z-11 diagram. I have also checked the alternator with the ov module disconnected and the voltage regulator in the circuit. Still producing about 19 volts at 1000 rpm. I haven't tested the ov module trip point, but obviously without it in the circuit, the voltage is too high. If it is not the alternator, I just feel I must have a bad original voltage regulator and a bad new replacement. I don't know how to test a voltage regulator though.
Ivan Haecker
On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 6:36 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I'd find the proper hookup diagram for both the alternator that you have, and the regulator that you're using. There's at least an outside chance something isn't hooked up correctly, since it's a different model regulator. What voltage do you measure if you disable the OV module & leave the regulator in the circuit?
On 11/23/2015 6:16 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
| Quote: | Ivan,
Could the problem be the over-voltage module? Do you have a way to bench test the module?
Using a variable DC power supply you should be able to determine the trip point of your OVM. That's where I would start based upon your description.
-Jeff
On Monday, November 23, 2015 3:59 PM, Ivan (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)<hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com> (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com) wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ivan < (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com (hivanhaecker(at)gmail.com)>
On a recent flight in my rv-4, my overvoltage relay (crowbar) apparently functioned properly as it tripped my field circuit breaker taking the alternator off line. Upon landing and checking, the problem would reoccur whenever the breaker was reset. I assumed the original voltage regulator had failed (1990 Van's unit). The alternator is a small 35 amp unit (from a mid 70's Honda Civic I believe). Unable to find an identical voltage regulator, I purchased a VR 440 unit from NAPA, and wired as suggested by previous posts on other lists. The problem reoccurred the same as before. My questions are: could this problem be related to the alternator itself, or might I have inadvertently purchased a defective voltage regulator. I believe the alternator is functioning because I measured its output with the field wired directly to the battery and saw 19+ volts. Any s.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/connbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.[/url][url=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List<; http://forums.sp; - List Contribution Web Site -
_; &nb://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.c===================
|
|
|
|
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
