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kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
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 Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:16 pm Post subject: Strobe noise in radio |
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Assembled wisdom . . . .
I have the standard dipole aerial for the radio in the closeout of the fin as per Europa instructions with the cable running down the Starboard side of the fuselage.
The strobe is from Kuntzleman with the power supply fitted under the baggage bay and the cable to the fin running down the Port side of the fuselage.
By necessity, the two cables are closer together in the fin and in the upper part of the fin would be running fairly parallel to each other. The Kuntzleman strobe wires are not shielded.
The problem is a CHEW CHEW noise in the headsets and by experimentation, I have proven the noise is coming in via the radio aerial.
My question is . . . . What is the likelihood of success if I was to replace the unshielded wires to the strobe with a shielded cable?
I realise moving the strobe to another location would likely be a solution but the fin is my preferred location if I can have it.
Thanks in anticipation
Kingsley in Oz
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rparigoris
Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 797
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Strobe noise in radio |
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Hi Kingsley
The absolute worst thing you can do with Kunzleman strobe is to use shielded wire supply line!
Twisted wire for supply works a lot better than straight wires.
You can read about my resolution with single Kunzleman strobe power supply which was using two power supplies in the wing tips and twisted supply lines.
See Kunzleman combo head:
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=30472
Ron Parigoris
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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:05 pm Post subject: Strobe noise in radio |
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Can't speak on the shielding, but would think that changing to an LED strobe would eliminate the noise (no high voltage spikes).
Cheers and good luck,
Pete
On Dec 22, 2015, at 7:15 PM, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au (kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au)> wrote:
| Quote: | Assembled wisdom . . . .
I have the standard dipole aerial for the radio in the closeout of the fin as per Europa instructions with the cable running down the Starboard side of the fuselage.
The strobe is from Kuntzleman with the power supply fitted under the baggage bay and the cable to the fin running down the Port side of the fuselage.
By necessity, the two cables are closer together in the fin and in the upper part of the fin would be running fairly parallel to each other. The Kuntzleman strobe wires are not shielded.
The problem is a “CHEW CHEW” noise in the headsets and by experimentation, I have proven the noise is coming in via the radio aerial.
My question is . . . . What is the likelihood of success if I was to replace the unshielded wires to the strobe with a shielded cable?
I realise moving the strobe to another location would likely be a solution but the fin is my preferred location if I can have it.
Thanks in anticipation
Kingsley in Oz
|
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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:42 am Post subject: Strobe noise in radio |
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I don't know what you mean when you say "chew chew"?
Does it appear when receiving radio or always?
The power supply is a switcher. It induces large AC currents on its supply lines and it contains a transformer that radiates as well. I don't know the switching frequency. It should be beyond hearing. Kuntzleman does not say.
The output should just be a single discharge once per second or so with no AC component..
The "chew chew" could be the power supply charging its capacitor after each discharge?
How did you prove that it is radiation coupling to the antenna?
5V USB switchers are made to behave in the presence of AM radio mainly by a filter on the input (2 capacitors and an inductor).
On 12/23/2015 1:15 AM, Kingsley Hurst wrote:
| Quote: | Assembled wisdom . . . .
I have the standard dipole aerial for the radio in the closeout of the fin as per Europa instructions with the cable running down the Starboard side of the fuselage.
The strobe is from Kuntzleman with the power supply fitted under the baggage bay and the cable to the fin running down the Port side of the fuselage.
By necessity, the two cables are closer together in the fin and in the upper part of the fin would be running fairly parallel to each other. The Kuntzleman strobe wires are not shielded.
The problem is a CHEW CHEW noise in the headsets and by experimentation, I have proven the noise is coming in via the radio aerial.
My question is . . . . What is the likelihood of success if I was to replace the unshielded wires to the strobe with a shielded cable?
I realise moving the strobe to another location would likely be a solution but the fin is my preferred location if I can have it.
Thanks in anticipation
Kingsley in Oz
|
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:24 pm Post subject: Strobe noise in radio |
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allekirjoitus2 [img]cid:part1.03030800.05070202(at)rwm.fi[/img]
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
[img]cid:part2.07040007.02010600(at)rwm.fi[/img]
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 2007
LamcoCub M SE-VAY 2004
Bravo AS202T OH-NTM 1995
Antonov AN-2 TDSRM AirCamper HA-MDO 1987
Beechcraft C45 Twin OH-BLL 1953 37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
m +358-40-590 1450
FLYING BREWERY
-only beer in the world brewed to aircraft standards
by pilots to pilots and also to normal people
[url=mailto:raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi]raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi (raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi)[/url]
www.flyingbreweryfinland.fi
www.rwm.fi
23.12.2015, 2:15, Kingsley Hurst kirjoitti:
| Quote: | Assembled wisdom . . . .
I have the standard dipole aerial for the radio in the closeout of the fin as per Europa instructions with the cable running down the Starboard side of the fuselage.
The strobe is from Kuntzleman with the power supply fitted under the baggage bay and the cable to the fin running down the Port side of the fuselage.
By necessity, the two cables are closer together in the fin and in the upper part of the fin would be running fairly parallel to each other. The Kuntzleman strobe wires are not shielded.
The problem is a CHEW CHEW noise in the headsets and by experimentation, I have proven the noise is coming in via the radio aerial.
My question is . . . . What is the likelihood of success if I was to replace the unshielded wires to the strobe with a shielded cable?
I realise moving the strobe to another location would likely be a solution but the fin is my preferred location if I can have it.
Thanks in anticipation
Kingsley in Oz
|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:26 pm Post subject: Strobe noise in radio |
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RON I do have twisted pair power supply lines to the strobe power supply thanks.
PETE Thanks for that tip . . . . . LED Strobe will be considered if all else fails.
JAN Comments / answers embedded below . . . .
Thank you all
Kingsley
From: Jan de Jong (jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl)
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 7:36 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Strobe noise in radio
I don't know what you mean when you say "chew chew"?
It is hard to describe a noise in words . . . Chew Chew is the best I can come up with Im afraid.
Does it appear when receiving radio or always?
Always whenever the radio is turned on. Volume of the noise can be controlled with the Vol control.
The "chew chew" could be the power supply charging its capacitor after each discharge?
Think you are right on the mark here Jan . . . . the noise immediately follows the flash and it does sound like the power supply charging its capacitor.
How did you prove that it is radiation coupling to the antenna?
1 Disconnected the power wires to the strobe unit to isolate the unit from the rest of the aircraft wiring and then supplied power from a second battery direct to the strobe unit. Made absolutely no difference to the noise.
2 Disconnecting the aerial from the back of the radio completely eliminates the noise as does connecting an aerial from a hand held radio.
5V USB switchers are made to behave in the presence of AM radio mainly by a filter on the input (2 capacitors and an inductor).
Sorry but you have lost me here.
Thanks again
K
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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:22 am Post subject: Strobe noise in radio |
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Kingsley,
Where I lost you:
People like to have 5V USB charging points for their ipads etc. fed from a 12V cigar lighter socket. These are very cheap and very noisy switchers; interfere badly with AM radio like our COM. Mitigation involves a filter on their 12V input and on their 5V output. Even so a cheap switcher radiates and degrades radio reception.
If what we hear is the charging of the capacitor the source should be the input power lines or the (transformer in) the box, not the output wiring to the strobe.
With the box located at the bagage bay station it would then seem strange that the antenna in the tail would be affected and an antenna near the panel (although lower quality) not at all.
Maybe some more experimentation with antennas would be useful: 1. moving a test antenna from panel to tail via the bagage bay 2. replacing the tail dipole with a 50 ohm dummy load.
Jan
On 12/23/2015 11:24 PM, Kingsley Hurst wrote:
| Quote: | RON I do have twisted pair power supply lines to the strobe power supply thanks.
PETE Thanks for that tip . . . . . LED Strobe will be considered if all else fails.
JAN Comments / answers embedded below . . . .
Thank you all
Kingsley
From: Jan de Jong (jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl)
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 7:36 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Strobe noise in radio
I don't know what you mean when you say "chew chew"?
It is hard to describe a noise in words . . . Chew Chew is the best I can come up with Im afraid.
Does it appear when receiving radio or always?
Always whenever the radio is turned on. Volume of the noise can be controlled with the Vol control.
The "chew chew" could be the power supply charging its capacitor after each discharge?
Think you are right on the mark here Jan . . . . the noise immediately follows the flash and it does sound like the power supply charging its capacitor.
How did you prove that it is radiation coupling to the antenna?
1 Disconnected the power wires to the strobe unit to isolate the unit from the rest of the aircraft wiring and then supplied power from a second battery direct to the strobe unit. Made absolutely no difference to the noise.
2 Disconnecting the aerial from the back of the radio completely eliminates the noise as does connecting an aerial from a hand held radio.
5V USB switchers are made to behave in the presence of AM radio mainly by a filter on the input (2 capacitors and an inductor).
Sorry but you have lost me here.
Thanks again
K
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:21 am Post subject: Strobe noise in radio |
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Many thanks for your much appreciated advice Jan.
I'm away from home now so can't do any more testing at the moment. Also, I'm thinking I will just leave the problem in the 'too hard' basket for a while and move on with more important things. The strobe is not critical for flight so is not a high priority at the moment.
When the time comes, I'll refer again to your suggestions.
Thanks again and all the best for the festive season.
Kingsley
Sent from my iPhone
[quote] On 24 Dec 2015, at 7:21 PM, Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl> wrote:
Kingsley,
Where I lost you:
People like to have 5V USB charging points for their ipads etc. fed from a 12V cigar lighter socket. These are very cheap and very noisy switchers; interfere badly with AM radio like our COM. Mitigation involves a filter on their 12V input and on their 5V output. Even so a cheap switcher radiates and degrades radio reception.
If what we hear is the charging of the capacitor the source should be the input power lines or the (transformer in) the box, not the output wiring to the strobe.
With the box located at the bagage bay station it would then seem strange that the antenna in the tail would be affected and an antenna near the panel (although lower quality) not at all.
Maybe some more experimentation with antennas would be useful: 1. moving a test antenna from panel to tail via the bagage bay 2. replacing the tail dipole with a 50 ohm dummy load.
Jan
> On 12/23/2015 11:24 PM, Kingsley Hurst wrote:
> RON – I do have twisted pair power supply lines to the strobe power supply thanks.
>
> PETE – Thanks for that tip . . . . . LED Strobe will be considered if all else fails.
>
> JAN – Comments / answers embedded below . . . .
>
> Thank you all
>
> Kingsley
>
>
>
> From: Jan de Jong
> Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 7:36 PM
> To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Strobe noise in radio
>
> I don't know what you mean when you say "chew chew"?
> It is hard to describe a noise in words . . . ‘Chew Chew” is the best I can come up with I’m afraid.
>
> Does it appear when receiving radio or always?
> Always – whenever the radio is turned on. Volume of the noise can be controlled with the Vol control.
>
> The "chew chew" could be the power supply charging its capacitor after each discharge?
> Think you are right on the mark here Jan . . . . the noise immediately follows the flash and it does sound like the power supply charging its capacitor.
>
> How did you prove that it is radiation coupling to the antenna?
> 1 Disconnected the power wires to the strobe unit to isolate the unit from the rest of the aircraft wiring and then supplied power from a second battery direct to the strobe unit. Made absolutely no difference to the noise
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:26 am Post subject: Strobe noise in radio |
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I absolutely need to get on with things as well.
Cheers.
Jan
On 12/24/2015 2:20 PM, Kingsley Hurst wrote:
| Quote: | Many thanks for your much appreciated advice Jan.
I'm away from home now so can't do any more testing at the moment. Also, I'm thinking I will just leave the problem in the 'too hard' basket for a while and move on with more important things. The strobe is not critical for flight so is not a high priority at the moment.
When the time comes, I'll refer again to your suggestions.
Thanks again and all the best for the festive season.
Kingsley
Sent from my iPhone
On 24 Dec 2015, at 7:21 PM, Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl (jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl)> wrote:
| Quote: | Kingsley,
Where I lost you:
People like to have 5V USB charging points for their ipads etc. fed from a 12V cigar lighter socket. These are very cheap and very noisy switchers; interfere badly with AM radio like our COM. Mitigation involves a filter on their 12V input and on their 5V output. Even so a cheap switcher radiates and degrades radio reception.
If what we hear is the charging of the capacitor the source should be the input power lines or the (transformer in) the box, not the output wiring to the strobe.
With the box located at the bagage bay station it would then seem strange that the antenna in the tail would be affected and an antenna near the panel (although lower quality) not at all.
Maybe some more experimentation with antennas would be useful: 1. moving a test antenna from panel to tail via the bagage bay 2. replacing the tail dipole with a 50 ohm dummy load.
Jan
On 12/23/2015 11:24 PM, Kingsley Hurst wrote:
| Quote: | RON – I do have twisted pair power supply lines to the strobe power supply thanks.
PETE – Thanks for that tip . . . . . LED Strobe will be considered if all else fails.
JAN – Comments / answers embedded below . . . .
Thank you all
Kingsley
From: Jan de Jong (jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl)
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 7:36 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Strobe noise in radio
I don't know what you mean when you say "chew chew"?
It is hard to describe a noise in words . . . ‘Chew Chew” is the best I can come up with I’m afraid.
Does it appear when receiving radio or always?
Always – whenever the radio is turned on. Volume of the noise can be controlled with the Vol control.
The "chew chew" could be the power supply charging its capacitor after each discharge?
Think you are right on the mark here Jan . . . . the noise immediately follows the flash and it does sound like the power supply charging its capacitor.
How did you prove that it is radiation coupling to the antenna?
1 Disconnected the power wires to the strobe unit to isolate the unit from the rest of the aircraft wiring and then supplied power from a second battery direct to the strobe unit. Made absolutely no difference to the noise.
2 Disconnecting the aerial from the back of the radio completely eliminates the noise as does connecting an aerial from a hand held radio.
5V USB switchers are made to behave in the presence of AM radio mainly by a filter on the input (2 capacitors and an inductor).
Sorry but you have lost me here.
Thanks again
K
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