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nickc(at)mtaonline.net
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 Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:53 am Post subject: Weight in one wing...? |
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Hello Kolber flyers,
I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of the strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of weight in the right wing for balance?
Thanks,
Nick Cassara
Palmer, AK
Kolbra #1 Prototype
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:01 pm Post subject: Weight in one wing...? |
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Not many aircraft come off the line, experimental and GA, that will fly
perfectly trimmed out. That's why they put in a capability for trimming for
pitch, roll, and yaw.
Our airplanes, the ones we build in our basement or in your shipping
container, are not built and rigged in precision jigs. I am amazed we can
come as close to flyable as we do. I, personally, would not put a
counterbalance weight in the opposite wing to counteract the weight of your
instrument. After you get your airplane flying, especially on a cross
country flight, you will know if you need to trim the aircraft in pitch,
trim and roll. Maybe the 11 oz will balance out a slightly misaligned wing,
or it may aggravate the situation. Either way you can fix it with trim tabs
and/or forced trim.
Hard to keep weight down on these aircraft. I would not add anything not
necessary.
Stay warm in Palmer.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
--
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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patrickjladd(at)hotmail.c
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:29 am Post subject: Weight in one wing...? |
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I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
What the hell is that and why do you need it.Particularly if you are adding 11 ozs. Totally ignorant. Pat
From: Nick Cassara (nickc(at)mtaonline.net)
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2016 7:56 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Weight in one wing...?
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Nick Cassara <nickc(at)mtaonline.net>
Hello Kolber flyers,
I am covering my left wing. I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate, that weights about 11oz, in the next bay out board of the strut mount on my left wing. Should I add an equivalent amount of weight in the right wing for balance?
Thanks,
Nick Cassara
Palmer, AK
Kolbra #1 p; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get Annual List below to Incentive Gifts href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cThank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronicp; the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:00 pm Post subject: Weight in one wing...? |
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LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could argue that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then, we don't know how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA indicators to land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and build errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane with wing tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between tanks would cause that much imbalance.
Charlie
On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
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patrickjladd(at)hotmail.c
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:30 am Post subject: Weight in one wing...? |
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Hi Charlie,
i suppose what I was asking in a guarded manner was why would anyone in a ultralight, or indeed any light aircraft want an unnecessary complication like this. Still we all pimp our rides to suit ourselves. As far as the extra 11 ozs goes I would have thought that in the fight to keep ultralight below the legal weight limit even 11 ozs. needs to be watched. Weight increases naturally after the initial weighing anyway with radios, GPS, cameras etc.
The guy who built my Extra added all sorts of odd little brackets or a bit of stiffening or beefing up wherever he saw what he considered a weak point. All without consulting me a couple of hundred miles away. This caused all sorts of fancy maths to get her certified as a microlight.
Cheers
Pat
From: Charlie England (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2016 8:00 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Weight in one wing...?
LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could argue that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then, we don't know how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA indicators to land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and build errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane with wing tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between tanks would cause that much imbalance.
Charlie
On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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koxxy
Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 28
Location: Beaverton, OR
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| Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:58 am Post subject: Weight in one wing...? |
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Mark Beierle, the designer of the Earthstar line of planes (Thundergull, Gull 2000, Odyssey), makes exactly that point. Ultralights and near-ultralights tend to be flown a lot more by seat-of-the-pants and exterior view clues than by instruments, and the added weight and complication goes contrary to the Ultralight "spirit".
That said, while learning to fly my eGull, I would have appreciated an LRI or AOA (angle of attack) indicator to calibrate myself. But now, after only 10 hours, I can tell this calibration process is well under way, and my instrument scans are getting shorter and less frequent, with more attention paid to the sight picture (and traffic in the pattern).
Weight: If I had gone through with an AOA instrument, I would have added only a second, angled pitot tube and hose, and my GRT EFIS would have been able to display AOA on the screen - a weight penalty in the 3-4 oz range.
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 3:29 AM, Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com (patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Charlie,
i suppose what I was asking in a guarded manner was why would anyone in a ultralight, or indeed any light aircraft want an unnecessary complication like this. Still we all pimp our rides to suit ourselves. As far as the extra 11 ozs goes I would have thought that in the fight to keep ultralight below the legal weight limit even 11 ozs. needs to be watched. Weight increases naturally after the initial weighing anyway with radios, GPS, cameras etc.
The guy who built my Extra added all sorts of odd little brackets or a bit of stiffening or beefing up wherever he saw what he considered a weak point. All without consulting me a couple of hundred miles away. This caused all sorts of fancy maths to get her certified as a microlight.
Cheers
Pat
Â
From: Charlie England (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2016 8:00 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Weight in one wing...?
Â
LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could argue that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then, we don't know how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA indicators to land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and build errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane with wing tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between tanks would cause that much imbalance.
Charlie
On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
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patrickjladd(at)hotmail.c
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:22 am Post subject: Weight in one wing...? |
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But now, after only 10 hours, I can tell this calibration process is well under way>>
Hi Martin, Always interesting how different pilots approach their flying. Some load their planes with every gizmo known to man and some (me) bare minimum No radio even most of the time.
After ten hours you shouldn`t need to look at your ASI at all when in cruise. ( Although you may need to check speed on the approach) the picture over the nose should be familiar enough to ignore the ASI. In any case if you stall through lack of attention `So What`. Unless you are near the ground or the plane drops a wing, a stall in a Kolb or similar a/c is a non event. The nose just nods, you lose a bit of height and then she flies again.. Note at what speed you stalled and don`t do it again.
Cheers
Pat
. From: Martin Koxxy (martinkoxxy(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 3:43 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Weight in one wing...?
Mark Beierle, the designer of the Earthstar line of planes (Thundergull, Gull 2000, Odyssey), makes exactly that point. Ultralights and near-ultralights tend to be flown a lot more by seat-of-the-pants and exterior view clues than by instruments, and the added weight and complication goes contrary to the Ultralight "spirit".
That said, while learning to fly my eGull, I would have appreciated an LRI or AOA (angle of attack) indicator to calibrate myself. But now, after only 10 hours, I can tell this calibration process is well under way, and my instrument scans are getting shorter and less frequent, with more attention paid to the sight picture (and traffic in the pattern).
Weight: If I had gone through with an AOA instrument, I would have added only a second, angled pitot tube and hose, and my GRT EFIS would have been able to display AOA on the screen - a weight penalty in the 3-4 oz range.
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 3:29 AM, Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com (patrickjladd(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Charlie,
i suppose what I was asking in a guarded manner was why would anyone in a ultralight, or indeed any light aircraft want an unnecessary complication like this. Still we all pimp our rides to suit ourselves. As far as the extra 11 ozs goes I would have thought that in the fight to keep ultralight below the legal weight limit even 11 ozs. needs to be watched. Weight increases naturally after the initial weighing anyway with radios, GPS, cameras etc.
The guy who built my Extra added all sorts of odd little brackets or a bit of stiffening or beefing up wherever he saw what he considered a weak point. All without consulting me a couple of hundred miles away. This caused all sorts of fancy maths to get her certified as a microlight.
Cheers
Pat
From: Charlie England (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2016 8:00 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Weight in one wing...?
LRI's are basically angle of attack indicators. I suppose you could argue that you don't need them on an ultralite (type) a/c, but then, we don't know how he intends to use the a/c. US Navy pilots depend on AOA indicators to land on carriers safely, and some 'bush' pilots do, too.
As far as balance goes, odds are high that component tolerances and build errors will easily mask an 11 oz weight difference. On a plane with wing tanks, just over 0.1 gallons of fuel difference between tanks would cause that much imbalance.
Charlie
On 1/9/2016 12:29 PM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
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GeoB
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:18 pm Post subject: Weight in one wing...? |
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| Quote: | I installed a Lift Reserve Indicator probe with a plate>>
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I am sorta remembering a DIY AOA meter that was made from mostly plastic
tubing. IIRC it would only weigh a few oz. Details escape me, but I have it
documented somewhere.
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GeoB
"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors" |
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