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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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 Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:34 pm Post subject: Filling on top of gel coat. |
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Is it ok to fill on top of gel coat orovided that its scuffed up. In other words is it necessary to go down to the fiberglass?
I am dealing with the wing skin join and the fuselage join
Thanks
Will
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Fred Klein
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:39 pm Post subject: Filling on top of gel coat. |
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Will…see indents below…Fred | Quote: | On Jan 23, 2016, at 2:12 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Is it ok to fill on top of gel coat orovided that its scuffed up. In other words is it necessary to go down to the fiberglass?
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I can tell you what I’ve done…I think it’s “ok”…then again, I do not have any experience w/ the surfaces having been out in the sun for long periods of time, airborne or otherwise.
Using a 3 foot long rigid sanding board, I sanded off gelcoat down to the FG in the high spots, following the manual re: orientation of strokes, grit, etc...then…using a flexible, cushioned sanding “board”, I removed most of the gelcoat and thoroughly scuffed the lower portions of the surface. I did this to both top and bottom of wing.
On the top surface of the wing, I applied the blue Poly Fiber “SuperFil”; as I recall, a 3 gallon kit was sufficient for top and bottom of tail planes, ailerons, flaps, and rudder. After curing and sanding, I rolled on multiple coats of Poly Fiber “UV Smooth Prime” to both top and underside surfaces. After sanding, for final filling, I used 3m “Flowable Finishing Putty”.
My only regret at this point is that I wish that I had allowed much more time for curing of the SuperFil before sanding…although I knew that the filler continues to shrink after it’s initial cure, for some unknown reason, I blocked out this information and I began sanding it only a couple of weeks after it had been applied. I fear that over time, I will be able to detect dips between the ribs, though there are no signs after two years of any showing up.
The most pleasurable part of the process was the sanding of the UV Smooth Prime, a very high-build primer, the sanding of which left me with a high level of satisfaction.
Good luck...
| Quote: |
I am dealing with the wing skin join and the fuselage join
Thanks
Will
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:14 am Post subject: Filling on top of gel coat. |
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Will, on the principle that extra weight is a definite downer and always think light or lighter, I would remove as much as you can without damaging the fibreglass, subject to getting your perfect profile. If the gel coat was properly applied in the first place it should be pretty much in chemical continuity with the FG resin.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ, with gel coat finish I would not change if you paid me!
On 2016-01-23 22:12, William Daniell wrote: | Quote: |
Is it ok to fill on top of gel coat orovided that its scuffed up. In other words is it necessary to go down to the fiberglass?
I am dealing with the wing skin join and the fuselage join
Thanks
Will |
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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:44 am Post subject: Filling on top of gel coat. |
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There may be confusion re what we call gel coat?
On 1/24/2016 12:12 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
| Quote: |
Will, on the principle that extra weight is a definite downer and always think light or lighter, I would remove as much as you can without damaging the fibreglass, subject to getting your perfect profile. If the gel coat was properly applied in the first place it should be pretty much in chemical continuity with the FG resin.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ, with gel coat finish I would not change if you paid me!
On 2016-01-23 22:12, William Daniell wrote: | Quote: |
Is it ok to fill on top of gel coat orovided that its scuffed up. In other words is it necessary to go down to the fiberglass?
I am dealing with the wing skin join and the fuselage join
Thanks
Will |
|
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 am Post subject: Filling on top of gel coat. |
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William,
It should be fine just scuffed. Epoxy will stick to polyester gel coat, but polyester won't stick to epoxy,
I think the gel coat is epoxy anyway.
Graham
On Sunday, 24 January 2016, 11:45, Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl> wrote:
There may be confusion re what we call gel coat? On 1/24/2016 12:12 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
| Quote: | Will, on the principle that extra weight is a definite downer and always think light or lighter, I would remove as much as you can without damaging the fibreglass, subject to getting your perfect profile. If the gel coat was properly applied in the first place it should be pretty much in chemical continuity with the FG resin.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ, with gel coat finish I would not change if you paid me!
On 2016-01-23 22:12, William Daniell wrote:
| Quote: | Is it ok to fill on top of gel coat orovided that its scuffed up. In other words is it necessary to go down to the fiberglass?
I am dealing with the wing skin join and the fuselage join
Thanks
Will
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:44 am Post subject: Filling on top of gel coat. |
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Ummm....you got me there.
I am talking about the white finish of parts that come from the factory.
Will
By that way david...nice pun On Jan 24, 2016 6:50 AM, "Jan de Jong" <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl (jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl)> wrote: | Quote: | There may be confusion re what we call gel coat?
On 1/24/2016 12:12 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
| Quote: |
Will, on the principle that extra weight is a definite downer and always think light or lighter, I would remove as much as you can without damaging the fibreglass, subject to getting your perfect profile. If the gel coat was properly applied in the first place it should be pretty much in chemical continuity with the FG resin.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ, with gel coat finish I would not change if you paid me!
On 2016-01-23 22:12, William Daniell wrote: | Quote: |
Is it ok to fill on top of gel coat orovided that its scuffed up. In other words is it necessary to go down to the fiberglass?
I am dealing with the wing skin join and the fuselage join
Thanks
Will |
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|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:56 am Post subject: Filling on top of gel coat. |
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Will, as far as the factory gel coat goes two very important principles:
1. Make sure you wash all the gel coated bits very, very thoroughly. The release agent used in the moulds has a great ability to induce potentially serious allergic reactions, if you just sand it off. (That speaking with my medical hat on!)
2. You need to fine sand the gel coat until you cannot see even a hint of any shiny patch, even with a magnifying glass. Any shiny bits however small will give imperfect adhesion of your covering coat.
Regards, David, GXSDJ
On 2016-01-24 13:43, William Daniell wrote: | Quote: |
Ummm....you got me there.
I am talking about the white finish of parts that come from the factory.
Will
By that way david...nice pun On Jan 24, 2016 6:50 AM, "Jan de Jong" <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl (jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl)> wrote: | Quote: | There may be confusion re what we call gel coat? On 1/24/2016 12:12 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
| Quote: |
Will, on the principle that extra weight is a definite downer and always think light or lighter, I would remove as much as you can without damaging the fibreglass, subject to getting your perfect profile. If the gel coat was properly applied in the first place it should be pretty much in chemical continuity with the FG resin.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ, with gel coat finish I would not change if you paid me!
On 2016-01-23 22:12, William Daniell wrote: | Quote: |
Is it ok to fill on top of gel coat orovided that its scuffed up. In other words is it necessary to go down to the fiberglass?
I am dealing with the wing skin join and the fuselage join
Thanks
Will |
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|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:07 am Post subject: Filling on top of gel coat. |
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I just want to second David's comment (2) on scuff sanding.
The wing mouldings are very thin and it's easy to inadvertently cut through the structural weave if you're over zealous. Use only 200 - 400 grit "wet and Dry" abrasive and look to achieve a "flat" finish.
All the pre-moulded components were delivered with small amounts of release agents still coating the surface. If you are in any doubt as to how effective this is, take a look at the attached picture of a de-laminated firewall to tunnel reinforcement. There is no sign of the firewall having been prepared - it is still "shiny" and the resulting lamination has not bonded. I was able to slide a steel rule under one edge and "unzip" it.
This aircraft was built by students studying for a degree in aerospace engineering at a renowned university ..... which doesn't say much for the quality of instruction or inspection.
I can't really name the university, but if Sir Geoffrey was alive today, he'd be turning in his grave!
Nigel
On 24/01/2016 15:30, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
| Quote: |
Will, as far as the factory gel coat goes two very important principles:
1. Make sure you wash all the gel coated bits very, very thoroughly. The release agent used in the moulds has a great ability to induce potentially serious allergic reactions, if you just sand it off. (That speaking with my medical hat on!)
2. You need to fine sand the gel coat until you cannot see even a hint of any shiny patch, even with a magnifying glass. Any shiny bits however small will give imperfect adhesion of your covering coat.
Regards, David, GXSDJ
On 2016-01-24 13:43, William Daniell wrote: | Quote: |
Ummm....you got me there.
I am talking about the white finish of parts that come from the factory.
Will
By that way david...nice pun On Jan 24, 2016 6:50 AM, "Jan de Jong" <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl (jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl)> wrote:
| Quote: | There may be confusion re what we call gel coat?
On 1/24/2016 12:12 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
| Quote: |
Will, on the principle that extra weight is a definite downer and always think light or lighter, I would remove as much as you can without damaging the fibreglass, subject to getting your perfect profile. If the gel coat was properly applied in the first place it should be pretty much in chemical continuity with the FG resin.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ, with gel coat finish I would not change if you paid me!
On 2016-01-23 22:12, William Daniell wrote: | Quote: |
Is it ok to fill on top of gel coat orovided that its scuffed up. In other words is it necessary to go down to the fiberglass?
I am dealing with the wing skin join and the fuselage join
Thanks
Will |
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|
|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:50 am Post subject: Filling on top of gel coat. |
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Thanks,
My first attempt at the firewall reinforcement looked like that despite the fact that I had scuffed it - obviously not enough - which taught me the lesson.
And David I did wash it first because you put the warning about the release agent on an earlier post. I find the forum extremely useful given that I am a long way from in person advice.
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 9:06 AM, Nigel Graham <nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk (nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk)> wrote:
| Quote: | I just want to second David's comment (2) on scuff sanding.
The wing mouldings are very thin and it's easy to inadvertently cut through the structural weave if you're over zealous. Use only 200 - 400 grit "wet and Dry" abrasive and look to achieve a "flat" finish.
All the pre-moulded components were delivered with small amounts of release agents still coating the surface. If you are in any doubt as to how effective this is, take a look at the attached picture of a de-laminated firewall to tunnel reinforcement. There is no sign of the firewall having been prepared - it is still "shiny" and the resulting lamination has not bonded. I was able to slide a steel rule under one edge and "unzip" it.
This aircraft was built by students studying for a degree in aerospace engineering at a renowned university ..... which doesn't say much for the quality of instruction or inspection.
I can't really name the university, but if Sir Geoffrey was alive today, he'd be turning in his grave!
Nigel
On 24/01/2016 15:30, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
| Quote: |
Will, as far as the factory gel coat goes two very important principles:
1. Make sure you wash all the gel coated bits very, very thoroughly. The release agent used in the moulds has a great ability to induce potentially serious allergic reactions, if you just sand it off. (That speaking with my medical hat on!)
2. You need to fine sand the gel coat until you cannot see even a hint of any shiny patch, even with a magnifying glass. Any shiny bits however small will give imperfect adhesion of your covering coat.
Regards, David, GXSDJ
On 2016-01-24 13:43, William Daniell wrote: | Quote: |
Ummm....you got me there.
I am talking about the white finish of parts that come from the factory.
Will
By that way david...nice pun On Jan 24, 2016 6:50 AM, "Jan de Jong" <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl (jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl)> wrote:
| Quote: | There may be confusion re what we call gel coat?
On 1/24/2016 12:12 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
| Quote: |
Will, on the principle that extra weight is a definite downer and always think light or lighter, I would remove as much as you can without damaging the fibreglass, subject to getting your perfect profile. If the gel coat was properly applied in the first place it should be pretty much in chemical continuity with the FG resin.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ, with gel coat finish I would not change if you paid me!
On 2016-01-23 22:12, William Daniell wrote: | Quote: |
Is it ok to fill on top of gel coat orovided that its scuffed up. In other words is it necessary to go down to the fiberglass?
I am dealing with the wing skin join and the fuselage join
Thanks
Will |
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| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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