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Gap seals

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Flylawnchairs

Joined: 04 Jul 2015
Posts: 10

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:49 pm Post subject: Gap seals

Hi all, I've bee slowly and intermittently working on my mk3xtra and have wondered about using the aluminum hinge that attaches the flaperon to the trailing edge of the wing going the the whole distance from inboard to outboard. Does anyone think this would eliminate the need for the 3m tape supplied in the kit ?

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rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:17 pm Post subject: Gap seals

It's your experiment, but either fabric or tape gap seals are less expensive than all that hinge (which is NOT intended to attach control surfaces by the way) and decreases the number of holes in the rear wing spars and the leading edge of the control surfaces. My two cents.



Rick Girard

Before someone starts in, look up the specs for MS20257 rolled hinge and MS20001 Extruded (structural) Hinge. Just sayin'

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Flylawnchairs <Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com (Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Flylawnchairs" <Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com (Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Hi all, I've bee slowly and intermittently working on my mk3xtra and have wondered about using the aluminum hinge that attaches the flaperon to the trailing edge of the wing going the the whole distance from inboard to outboard. Does anyone think this would eliminate the need for the 3m tape supplied in the kit ?

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452324#452324

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

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“Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.”   Groucho Marx

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The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:05 pm Post subject: Gap seals

Doesn't take much hinge to hang an aileron and flap.

 

Piano hinges may not have been designed for control surface hinges, but they have served us, in the Kolb world, well.

 

The trailing edge of the wing and the leading edge of the flap and aileron flex quite a bit in flight. Never tried to see if I could actually see them flex in flight, but it can be done on the ground.  

 

Full span hinges will begin binding as soon as they begin getting out of column.  Would it be a problem?  I don't know.  Is there enough flex in the wing and control surfaces to bind up a full span hinge?  I don't know that either.

 

Best go by the plans on size and number of hinges, in my humble opinion.

 

I have Polyester Dacron fabric seals that were installed on my MKIII in 1992.  They are still serviceable after 24 years and 3,300+ hours.  Takes a little longer and is a little more difficult to go this route, but the end result produces the best gap seal.

 

john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

 

 

 

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard

Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 6:17 PM

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Gap seals



 

It's your experiment, but either fabric or tape gap seals are less expensive than all that hinge (which is NOT intended to attach control surfaces by the way) and decreases the number of holes in the rear wing spars and the leading edge of the control surfaces. My two cents.

 



Rick Girard



 



Before someone starts in, look up the specs for MS20257 rolled hinge and MS20001 Extruded (structural) Hinge. Just sayin'

 

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Flylawnchairs <Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com (Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Flylawnchairs" <Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com (Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com)>



Hi all, I've bee slowly and intermittently working on my mk3xtra and have wondered about using the aluminum hinge that attaches the flaperon to the trailing edge of the wing going the the whole distance from inboard to outboard. Does anyone think this would eliminate the need for the 3m tape supplied in the kit ?





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452324#452324



===========

br> fts!)

r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

===========

-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

===========

FORUMS -

eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

===========

b Site -

          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

===========

 



-- “Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.”   Groucho Marx

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:56 pm Post subject: Gap seals

Rick mentions a question worth asking       about extra holes in the spar. Having said that, the 2 seat RV's       use full length piano hinge for the flaps. IIRC, some of the       Zenith products use them for aileron hinges.

       

       FWIW,

       

       Charlie

       

       On 1/26/2016 7:04 PM, John Hauck wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                         <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->                

Doesn't             take much hinge to hang an aileron and flap.         

          

Piano             hinges may not have been designed for control surface             hinges, but they have served us, in the Kolb world, well.         

          

The             trailing edge of the wing and the leading edge of the flap             and aileron flex quite a bit in flight. Never tried to see             if I could actually see them flex in flight, but it can be             done on the ground.           

          

Full             span hinges will begin binding as soon as they begin getting             out of column.  Would it be a problem?  I don't know.  Is             there enough flex in the wing and control surfaces to bind             up a full span hinge?  I don't know that either.         

          

Best             go by the plans on size and number of hinges, in my humble             opinion.         

          

I             have Polyester Dacron fabric seals that were installed on my             MKIII in 1992.  They are still serviceable after 24 years             and 3,300+ hours.  Takes a little longer and is a little             more difficult to go this route, but the end result produces             the best gap seal.         

          

john             h         

mkIII         

Titus,             Alabama         

          

          

                     

From:               owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)               [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On                 Behalf Of Richard Girard

               Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 6:17 PM

               To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)

               Subject: Re: Gap seals         

         

                     

It's your experiment, but either fabric             or tape gap seals are less expensive than all that hinge             (which is NOT intended to attach control surfaces by the             way) and decreases the number of holes in the rear wing             spars and the leading edge of the control surfaces. My two             cents.                        

            

                        

Rick Girard           

                        

            

                        

Before someone starts in, look up the               specs for MS20257 rolled hinge and MS20001 Extruded               (structural) Hinge. Just sayin'           

         

                    

                         

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 5:49 PM,               Flylawnchairs <Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com (Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com)>               wrote:             

-->               Kolb-List message posted by: "Flylawnchairs" <[url=mailto:Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com]Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com (Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com)[/url]>

               

               Hi all, I've bee slowly and intermittently working on my               mk3xtra and have wondered about using the aluminum hinge               that attaches the flaperon to the trailing edge of the               wing going the the whole distance from inboard to               outboard. Does anyone think this would eliminate the need               for the 3m tape supplied in the kit ?

               

               

               

               

               Read this topic online here:

               

               http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452324#452324

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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:03 pm Post subject: Gap seals

I think that if I were to use full length hinges,  I would install them in such a way that they never go straight even at full deflection of the control surfaces.  that way they can't lock up on you.

 Boyd Young

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Flylawnchairs

Joined: 04 Jul 2015
Posts: 10

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Gap seals

Thanks for the input guys, think I'll just use the required amount of hinge and call it good. Even though all that flexing really bothers me, I think John has a point about it working fine for 3300 hours. 

Cheers, Gene Wilson

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:12 am Post subject: Gap seals

Probably didn't make myself clear, as usual.



Any flexing is not noticeable.  My description would have fit a Challenger

wing much better than Homer Kolb's wing.  Do not let the minute flex bother

you.



john h

Titus, Alabama





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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Gap seals

I think all the Kolbs have a solid hinge at the root, and piano hinges along the rest of the wing, and typically the tips have a bit of flex from the piano hinges. If you want the aileron tip end to be solid with no flex: you know those stainless L hinges that are used to secure the leading edge of the horizontal stab? Buy 8 extra stainless L hinges and use them as tip aileron hinges and the flex will go away. Not that I think it matters; but if it matters to you...

http://oh2fly.net/oldpoops/pg8.htm

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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

mojavjoe

Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 64

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:03 pm Post subject: Gap seals

While my Firestar doesn't have flaps, my ailerons have hinge the length of the aileron, not however from the inside edge of the aileron to the wing root and I think this a very good gap seal.

From: "Flylawnchairs" <Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com>

To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 6:49:20 PM

Subject: Gap seals

--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Flylawnchairs" <Flylawnchairs(at)gmail.com>

Hi all, I've bee slowly and intermittently working on my mk3xtra and have wondered about using the aluminum hinge that attaches the flaperon to the trailing edge of the wing going the the whole distance from inboard to outboard. Does anyone think this would eliminate the need for the 3m tape supplied in the kit ?

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452324#452324

- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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