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skyking76t(at)verizon.net
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 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:04 pm Post subject: Nitrogen Loss |
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Jon, I don't know. I was thinking about that also. When I was in high school I worked in a tire shop and we patched tubes and also did what was called "vulcanizing" of the fill valves to tractor tubes. The outside of the canopy seal is ribbed so a patch probably won't work there. Might be worth a try. If you can find the leak, might try using some of the patch glue and pull the split together and see if it would hold. Not a lot of pressure in the seal.
Maybe we need to do like the guys did back in the 2000's with the engine oil and get orders from people who want them and everyone go together and get a company to make a run of new front and rear canopy seals.
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 2:09 PM, Jon <jonairway(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Tony, can the canopy seals be patched like a bicycle tube?
Jon
On Mar 27, 2016 8:30 PM, "Anthony Royal" <skyking76t(at)verizon.net (skyking76t(at)verizon.net)> wrote: | Quote: | Good idea Bill but if I can get the original part and bolt in, much easier and faster. I was lucky, found NOS part in CR.
Anthony
On Sunday, March 27, 2016 12:52 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
A schrader valve would prevent back flow.Sent from my iPad
On Mar 27, 2016, at 08:08, Anthony Royal <skyking76t(at)verizon.net (skyking76t(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | I would be interested too!
Found part of my leak problem.Removed the check valve that prevents nitrogen from the Nitro bottles from flowing back out of bottles. The flare on the check valve had a large burr,ridge on it. Not sure how that could have happened. Smoothed it out ( yes I know you can't really repair because you alter the angle) and used some aircraft grade sealer made for sealing a damaged flare and put back together for a test. Added 50 atm nitro last night and still had 20 atm left over 24 hours later and was stable. May leak at higher pressure but it is a start. Also removed the nitrogen tank purge/drain valve. Packing nut was still a little loose and it looked to have a little something on the sealing seat. When I first tried to tighten in the plane I got a significant increase in nitrogen pressure time. I'm working my way back toward the cockpit. Checked the 2 connections at the brake valve beside the stick. All seems to be very tight.
Anybody have a new or good used check valve?
On Saturday, March 26, 2016 2:32 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
send description and pix.On Mar 25, 2016, at 20:36, Jean de Roubin <delfin29(at)me.com (delfin29(at)me.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I think the best way is an air compressor, working automatically at 20 bars and stopping at 50.
My, installed by the tzechs and approved by the factory is perfectly working since 15 years. No need of ground support.
Jean de RoubinEnvoyé de mon iPhone
Le 25 mars 2016 à 19:58, Frank Deeth <tr.9(at)westnet.com.au (tr.9(at)westnet.com.au)> a écrit :
| Quote: | Thanks Jorgen!Sent from my iPhone
On 26 Mar 2016, at 6:50 AM, Jorgen Nielsen <jorgen.nielsen(at)mweb.co.za (jorgen.nielsen(at)mweb.co.za)> wrote:
| Quote: | Mine is also done like that. I only posted half the story earlier, herewith then the full story J
I don’t use oxygen, so repurposed the tanks.
My oxygen tanks have a tap on them, close to the bottles, and a pressure gauge. The tap & gauge is situated in the nose compartment.
My normal air bottle (N2) also have a tap on them, and a gauge, also in the nose compartment.
So far, 2 separate systems.
After the taps, they are interconnected via a T, output goes to the air system.
Benefits:
Closing the valves means no leaks when she is standing.
Having the 2 systems that close means I can go away for a weekend with no ground support, or for example a 3 hop ferry I did a while back. At the destination, close the active system. For the next flight, pick a system and open valve. When the system is empty use the next one.
To fill, if its just a normal flight from home base, I open the valve for whichever system is in use, and fill normally. For extended flights, one can fill one system at a time, or open both and fill both, then close one.
So far, completely trouble free for a number of years.
I will have to take some pics when at the airport. I used spare hand operated valves, similar to the pressure release inside the cockpit. I never did the work myself, I have a Russian guy who does all my maintenance, I just dreamt it up and asked him to do it.
Another mod we did: my front / rear braking system has been reversed. I was once taxying with pax, and asked them to hold the brake while I did something. On release, when I took over, suddenly I had no brakes, and no steering obviously. We almost went farming. In normal ops, the rear brake is for the instructor, and held a certain way can disable the front cabin system. Not good for how we operate them privately.
Regards to all
Jorgen
From: owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Frank DeethSent: Friday, 25 March 2016 21:07To: l29-list(at)matronics.com (l29-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: Re: Nitrogen Loss
I read once about an L-29 being operated in the UK where they disconnected the oxy system and plumbed those bottles into the pneumatic system, almost doubles the capacity if I recall...? Has anyone else looked at doing that?
FrankSent from my iPad
On Mar 26, 2016, at 4:20 AM, Bill Culberson <bculberson(at)staraviation.com (bculberson(at)staraviation.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Ultrasonic leak detector only works on the high pressure leaks (75-100 BAR), as it detects the specific audio signature of high pressure gas escaping. Canopy seals and brakes are at lower pressures and the soap and water test seems best.
I don’t use a Schrader valve but rather the original quarter turn valve but recently converted the N2 Cover to having a Schrader adapter “just in case”. My plane doesn’t leak much but discovered that with the cover changed and a good gasket the N2 cover that the N2 remains for weeks instead of days. Main check valve must be leaking.
I like the Hand valve at the tanks, what did you use? Pics?
Bill
N39DE
[url=] [/url]
From: owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jorgen NielsenSent: Friday, March 25, 2016 2:52 AMTo: l29-list(at)matronics.com (l29-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: RE: Nitrogen Loss
I also tried an ultrasonic leak detector, got a very expensive version on trial for a week from a specialty supplier. Could not find anything using it either. Soapy water is messy but seems to work best.
My air system is modified, with a hand valve installed close to the bottles. When I am done flying, I shut it off. Also nice if using the L29 to go somewhere, turn it off after landing, turn it back on before flight, no losses.
From: owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Anthony RoyalSent: Friday, 25 March 2016 02:17To: l29-list(at)matronics.com (l29-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: Re: L29-List: Nitrogen Loss
Hey guys,
Thanks for all your suggestions! John, I did the soapy water test on every fitting I could find all the way back to the fittings for the emergency bottle and beyond. ...tightened too. No Joy.
Bill, I think I did the top nut but missed the lower nut. I'll look at that next . Yeah, I'm 60 and a little too big to get into that small of quarters.
Hey Frank, thanks for the info too!
I'm also looking at disconnecting the the main pressurizing line line at the pressure reduction valve for the down stream items, after the nitrogen bottles, and capping off the line and then pressurizing the bottles. This should tell me if there is a leak anywhere upstream of the reduction valve in the main charging system. The emergency bottle holds pressure perfectly so no problems there.
According to the service manual, the minimum loss is 5 atm over 2 hours. So, I'm right on that limit at 2.5 atm per hour.
Thanks!
Tony
On Thursday, March 24, 2016 7:15 PM, John Cabrera <jetblast1(at)me.com (jetblast1(at)me.com)> wrote:
I don”t know if this is going to be of any help and some may laugh at me but i was chasing at leak in the rear canopy. Bought a fancy ultrasonic leak detector and could not find any leak. Finally decided to check with old fashion soapy water and a spray bottle. That worked.
John
| Quote: | On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Anthony Royal <skyking76t(at)verizon.net (skyking76t(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
Guys, my L-29 has always held nitrogen for days without much loss of pressure. Other day I pressurized to 140 atm because of a long flight and day. Pressure bled off immediately from 140 to about 90 atm before I could get out of the hangar. And was totally empty the next day. I found several loose, original safety wired, connections not tight. Packing nut on the nitrogen purge valve was loose too. Tightened every fitting and thing I could find from nose to rear cockpit.
Now, if I pressurize to 50 atm, I will lose 30 atm in 12 hours. If I pressurize to 100 atm I lose 30 atm in 12 hours. Very consistent now. That's about 2.5 atm per hour. Any suggestions what else might cause such a consistent leak? Thinking maybe the pressure relief valve leaking? Check valve? Reading manuals and reviewing diagrams but thought maybe someone else may have run into this same problem and save a lot of time
Someone, in a post I can't find, suggested an ultrasonic tester of some sort to detect high pressure leaks. Does anyone know which one it was?
Also, looking for the glass lens for the taxi light. Rock must have hit mineand cracked it in half. Glued it back but would like to replacement. Also looking for connector to ARC EA-401A encoding altimeter.
Thanks for any info
Anthony
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ershire
Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:11 pm Post subject: Nitrogen Loss |
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I'd be in..... I also am seeing an increased rate of NO2 loss. I'll start
tracing it when it warms up.
On Mar 31, 2016 5:05 PM, "Anthony Royal" <skyking76t(at)verizon.net> wrote:
[quote] Jon, I don't know. I was thinking about that also. When I was in high
school I worked in a tire shop and we patched tubes and also did what was
called "vulcanizing" of the fill valves to tractor tubes. The outside of
the canopy seal is ribbed so a patch probably won't work there. Might be
worth a try. If you can find the leak, might try using some of the patch
glue and pull the split together and see if it would hold. Not a lot of
pressure in the seal.
Maybe we need to do like the guys did back in the 2000's with the engine
oil and get orders from people who want them and everyone go together and
get a company to make a run of new front and rear canopy seals.
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 2:09 PM, Jon <jonairway(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Tony, can the canopy seals be patched like a bicycle tube?
Jon
On Mar 27, 2016 8:30 PM, "Anthony Royal" <skyking76t(at)verizon.net> wrote:
Good idea Bill but if I can get the original part and bolt in, much easier
and faster. I was lucky, found NOS part in CR.
Anthony
On Sunday, March 27, 2016 12:52 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com> wrote:
A schrader valve would prevent back flow.
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 27, 2016, at 08:08, Anthony Royal <skyking76t(at)verizon.net> wrote:
I would be interested too!
Found part of my leak problem.Removed the check valve that prevents
nitrogen from the Nitro bottles from flowing back out of bottles. The flare
on the check valve had a large burr,ridge on it. Not sure how that could
have happened. Smoothed it out ( yes I know you can't really repair because
you alter the angle) and used some aircraft grade sealer made for sealing a
damaged flare and put back together for a test. Added 50 atm nitro last
night and still had 20 atm left over 24 hours later and was stable. May
leak at higher pressure but it is a start. Also removed the nitrogen tank
purge/drain valve. Packing nut was still a little loose and it looked to
have a little something on the sealing seat. When I first tried to tighten
in the plane I got a significant increase in nitrogen pressure time. I'm
working my way back toward the cockpit. Checked the 2 connections at the
brake valve beside the stick. All seems to be very tight.
Anybody have a new or good used check valve?
On Saturday, March 26, 2016 2:32 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com> wrote:
send description and pix.
On Mar 25, 2016, at 20:36, Jean de Roubin <delfin29(at)me.com> wrote:
I think the best way is an air compressor, working automatically at 20
bars and stopping at 50.
My, installed by the tzechs and approved by the factory is perfectly
working since 15 years. No need of ground support.
Jean de Roubin
Envoyé de mon iPhone
Le 25 mars 2016 à 19:58, Frank Deeth <tr.9(at)westnet.com.au> a écrit :
Thanks Jorgen!
Sent from my iPhone
On 26 Mar 2016, at 6:50 AM, Jorgen Nielsen <jorgen.nielsen(at)mweb.co.za>
wrote:
Mine is also done like that. I only posted half the story earlier,
herewith then the full story J
I don’t use oxygen, so repurposed the tanks.
My oxygen tanks have a tap on them, close to the bottles, and a pressure
gauge. The tap & gauge is situated in the nose compartment.
My normal air bottle (N2) also have a tap on them, and a gauge, also in
the nose compartment.
So far, 2 separate systems.
After the taps, they are interconnected via a T, output goes to the air
system.
Benefits:
Closing the valves means no leaks when she is standing.
Having the 2 systems that close means I can go away for a weekend with no
ground support, or for example a 3 hop ferry I did a while back. At the
destination, close the active system. For the next flight, pick a system
and open valve. When the system is empty use the next one.
To fill, if its just a normal flight from home base, I open the valve for
whichever system is in use, and fill normally. For extended flights, one
can fill one system at a time, or open both and fill both, then close one
| | - The Matronics L29-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?L29-List |
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skyking76t(at)verizon.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:55 pm Post subject: Nitrogen Loss |
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Good luck. I've traced the entire main nitrogen system all the way back to the front and rear brake valves (need to be double jointed and about 50 lbs lighter) to the rear pressure gauge. Got the leak down to a constant 0.7 atm per hour or about 15 atm per 22 hours.
A Phd friend of mine suggested introducing a small amount of propane into the nitrogen system and then using a propane sniffer to find the problem. He feels it's an inert enough gas with no moisture to use without any issues, other than a little flammable, to trigger a sniffer at low pressures. I'm leaning toward going that route.
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 5:14 PM, Jon <jonairway(at)gmail.com> wrote:
I'd be in..... I also am seeing an increased rate of NO2 loss. I'll start tracing it when it warms up.
On Mar 31, 2016 5:05 PM, "Anthony Royal" <skyking76t(at)verizon.net (skyking76t(at)verizon.net)> wrote: | Quote: | Jon, I don't know. I was thinking about that also. When I was in high school I worked in a tire shop and we patched tubes and also did what was called "vulcanizing" of the fill valves to tractor tubes. The outside of the canopy seal is ribbed so a patch probably won't work there. Might be worth a try. If you can find the leak, might try using some of the patch glue and pull the split together and see if it would hold. Not a lot of pressure in the seal.
Maybe we need to do like the guys did back in the 2000's with the engine oil and get orders from people who want them and everyone go together and get a company to make a run of new front and rear canopy seals.
On Thursday, March 31, 2016 2:09 PM, Jon <jonairway(at)gmail.com (jonairway(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Tony, can the canopy seals be patched like a bicycle tube?
Jon
On Mar 27, 2016 8:30 PM, "Anthony Royal" <skyking76t(at)verizon.net (skyking76t(at)verizon.net)> wrote: | Quote: | Good idea Bill but if I can get the original part and bolt in, much easier and faster. I was lucky, found NOS part in CR.
Anthony
On Sunday, March 27, 2016 12:52 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
A schrader valve would prevent back flow.Sent from my iPad
On Mar 27, 2016, at 08:08, Anthony Royal <skyking76t(at)verizon.net (skyking76t(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | I would be interested too!
Found part of my leak problem.Removed the check valve that prevents nitrogen from the Nitro bottles from flowing back out of bottles. The flare on the check valve had a large burr,ridge on it. Not sure how that could have happened. Smoothed it out ( yes I know you can't really repair because you alter the angle) and used some aircraft grade sealer made for sealing a damaged flare and put back together for a test. Added 50 atm nitro last night and still had 20 atm left over 24 hours later and was stable. May leak at higher pressure but it is a start. Also removed the nitrogen tank purge/drain valve. Packing nut was still a little loose and it looked to have a little something on the sealing seat. When I first tried to tighten in the plane I got a significant increase in nitrogen pressure time. I'm working my way back toward the cockpit. Checked the 2 connections at the brake valve beside the stick. All seems to be very tight.
Anybody have a new or good used check valve?
On Saturday, March 26, 2016 2:32 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
send description and pix.On Mar 25, 2016, at 20:36, Jean de Roubin <delfin29(at)me.com (delfin29(at)me.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I think the best way is an air compressor, working automatically at 20 bars and stopping at 50.
My, installed by the tzechs and approved by the factory is perfectly working since 15 years. No need of ground support.
Jean de RoubinEnvoyé de mon iPhone
Le 25 mars 2016 à 19:58, Frank Deeth <tr.9(at)westnet.com.au (tr.9(at)westnet.com.au)> a écrit :
| Quote: | Thanks Jorgen!Sent from my iPhone
On 26 Mar 2016, at 6:50 AM, Jorgen Nielsen <jorgen.nielsen(at)mweb.co.za (jorgen.nielsen(at)mweb.co.za)> wrote:
| Quote: | Mine is also done like that. I only posted half the story earlier, herewith then the full story J
I don’t use oxygen, so repurposed the tanks.
My oxygen tanks have a tap on them, close to the bottles, and a pressure gauge. The tap & gauge is situated in the nose compartment.
My normal air bottle (N2) also have a tap on them, and a gauge, also in the nose compartment.
So far, 2 separate systems.
After the taps, they are interconnected via a T, output goes to the air system.
Benefits:
Closing the valves means no leaks when she is standing.
Having the 2 systems that close means I can go away for a weekend with no ground support, or for example a 3 hop ferry I did a while back. At the destination, close the active system. For the next flight, pick a system and open valve. When the system is empty use the next one.
To fill, if its just a normal flight from home base, I open the valve for whichever system is in use, and fill normally. For extended flights, one can fill one system at a time, or open both and fill both, then close one.
So far, completely trouble free for a number of years.
I will have to take some pics when at the airport. I used spare hand operated valves, similar to the pressure release inside the cockpit. I never did the work myself, I have a Russian guy who does all my maintenance, I just dreamt it up and asked him to do it.
Another mod we did: my front / rear braking system has been reversed. I was once taxying with pax, and asked them to hold the brake while I did something. On release, when I took over, suddenly I had no brakes, and no steering obviously. We almost went farming. In normal ops, the rear brake is for the instructor, and held a certain way can disable the front cabin system. Not good for how we operate them privately.
Regards to all
Jorgen
From: owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Frank DeethSent: Friday, 25 March 2016 21:07To: l29-list(at)matronics.com (l29-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: Re: Nitrogen Loss
I read once about an L-29 being operated in the UK where they disconnected the oxy system and plumbed those bottles into the pneumatic system, almost doubles the capacity if I recall...? Has anyone else looked at doing that?
FrankSent from my iPad
On Mar 26, 2016, at 4:20 AM, Bill Culberson <bculberson(at)staraviation.com (bculberson(at)staraviation.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Ultrasonic leak detector only works on the high pressure leaks (75-100 BAR), as it detects the specific audio signature of high pressure gas escaping. Canopy seals and brakes are at lower pressures and the soap and water test seems best.
I don’t use a Schrader valve but rather the original quarter turn valve but recently converted the N2 Cover to having a Schrader adapter “just in case”. My plane doesn’t leak much but discovered that with the cover changed and a good gasket the N2 cover that the N2 remains for weeks instead of days. Main check valve must be leaking.
I like the Hand valve at the tanks, what did you use? Pics?
Bill
N39DE
[url=] [/url]
From: owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jorgen NielsenSent: Friday, March 25, 2016 2:52 AMTo: l29-list(at)matronics.com (l29-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: RE: Nitrogen Loss
I also tried an ultrasonic leak detector, got a very expensive version on trial for a week from a specialty supplier. Could not find anything using it either. Soapy water is messy but seems to work best.
My air system is modified, with a hand valve installed close to the bottles. When I am done flying, I shut it off. Also nice if using the L29 to go somewhere, turn it off after landing, turn it back on before flight, no losses.
From: owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-l29-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Anthony RoyalSent: Friday, 25 March 2016 02:17To: l29-list(at)matronics.com (l29-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: Re: Nitrogen Loss
Hey guys,
Thanks for all your suggestions! John, I did the soapy water test on every fitting I could find all the way back to the fittings for the emergency bottle and beyond. ...tightened too. No Joy.
Bill, I think I did the top nut but missed the lower nut. I'll look at that next . Yeah, I'm 60 and a little too big to get into that small of quarters.
Hey Frank, thanks for the info too!
I'm also looking at disconnecting the the main pressurizing line line at the pressure reduction valve for the down stream items, after the nitrogen bottles, and capping off the line and then pressurizing the bottles. This should tell me if there is a leak anywhere upstream of the reduction valve in the main charging system. The emergency bottle holds pressure perfectly so no problems there.
According to the service manual, the minimum loss is 5 atm over 2 hours. So, I'm right on that limit at 2.5 atm per hour.
Thanks!
Tony
On Thursday, March 24, 2016 7:15 PM, John Cabrera <jetblast1(at)me.com (jetblast1(at)me.com)> wrote:
I don”t know if this is going to be of any help and some may laugh at me but i was chasing at leak in the rear canopy. Bought a fancy ultrasonic leak detector and could not find any leak. Finally decided to check with old fashion soapy water and a spray bottle. That worked.
John
| Quote: | On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Anthony Royal <skyking76t(at)verizon.net (skyking76t(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
Guys, my L-29 has always held nitrogen for days without much loss of pressure. Other day I pressurized to 140 atm because of a long flight and day. Pressure bled off immediately from 140 to about 90 atm before I could get out of the hangar. And was totally empty the next day. I found several loose, original safety wired, connections not tight. Packing nut on the nitrogen purge valve was loose too. Tightened every fitting and thing I could find from nose to rear cockpit.
Now, if I pressurize to 50 atm, I will lose 30 atm in 12 hours. If I pressurize to 100 atm I lose 30 atm in 12 hours. Very consistent now. That's about 2.5 atm per hour. Any suggestions what else might cause such a consistent leak? Thinking maybe the pressure relief valve leaking? Check valve? Reading manuals and reviewing diagrams but thought maybe someone else may have run into this same problem and save a lot of time
Someone, in a post I can't find, suggested an ultrasonic tester of some sort to detect high pressure leaks. Does anyone know which one it was?
Also, looking for the glass lens for the taxi light. Rock must have hit mineand cracked it in half. Glued it back but would like to replacement. Also looking for connector to ARC EA-401A encoding altimeter.
Thanks for any info
Anthony
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N777ZE
Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Nitrogen Loss |
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We use whats called bleed air, 97 nitrogen 3 percent butane, and a robinaire flammable gas sensor. I mentioned this to tom schnell at u-ia and it helped them on their 29. The sniffer is aboit 500$ though. I have one for work that has a goose neck that makes it easy to get in weird places.
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skyking76t(at)verizon.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:45 pm Post subject: Nitrogen Loss |
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I tightened every single fitting in the main nitrogen supply from the nose all the way to the rear pressure gauge, braking valves on the rudder peddle and the brake valve beside the front stick. Front emergency system flawless. My arms look like I’ve been fighting with a wild cat. In my case, I found several connections, that still had the original safety wire, that I tightened the fitting by a turn or more. The packing nut for the nitro purge valve was loose and the check valve in the fill line to the nitro tanks had a bad place in the flare and the internal rubber seal was pretty hard ( I took it apart) which could allow nitro to flow out the fill valve. As of today, I have mine down to 0.6 atm per hour loss. Nothing else I have done has made it any better. So, right now I should be good for about 10 days, not factoring into brake usage. I’m going to replace the check valve if I can get one from the Czech Republic or convert to the high pressure schrader valve. I believe this will take care of the rest of the 0.6 atm problem. I made a solid flat rubber washer and put in the nitro fill cover/cap. When I remove the cover, the rubber has a small bubble in it so it seems there is some leakage coming from somewhere.
Right now, I can live with the small amount of leakage but good info to know and thank you for passing it along! But that $500 sniffer hurts. My bother in law works for a gas company so I could get a propane sniffer from him on loan.
On Saturday, April 2, 2016 11:09 AM, N777ZE <Piper72pilot(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
--> L29-List message posted by: "N777ZE" <Piper72pilot(at)hotmail.com (Piper72pilot(at)hotmail.com)>
We use whats called bleed air, 97 nitrogen 3 percent butane, and a robinaire flammable gas sensor. I mentioned this to tom schnell at u-ia and it helped them on their 29. The sniffer is aboit 500$ though. I have one for work that has a goose neck that makes it easy to get in weird places.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454468#454468
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fougapilot
Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 88
Location: Flat on my back with minimum airspeed
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Nitrogen Loss |
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So,
I am working on finding a Nitrogen leak on my R model. Truth be told, we are making progress. We went from losing it all in just under an hour to being able to keep the pressure for about 9hours. Still far from the book value of 2.5 ATM loss per hour, but at least the Nitrogen will now outlast the fuel... lol.
In reality, not taking into consideration usage, how long does a full charge last in your airplane?
Thanks for the help.
Dan
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skyking76t(at)verizon.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:22 pm Post subject: Nitrogen Loss |
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My plane with a full charge will last about 2 days under normal use. There is a valve to the right of the front seat and behind the seat and your right arm that is connected to the canopy locking mechanism. When you lock the canopy it opens this valve so the canopy seal will inflate when you move the lever beside your right leg. This is not the valve attached to the pressurization lever. This valve also releases canopy seal pressure if you unlock the front canopy before you depressurize it. Taking this valve out of the system, I had a charge last over 8 days. This was with the plane static and no use but still pretty significant. If I could find a new valve, I would be golden.
On Thursday, April 20, 2017 8:52 PM, fougapilot <fougapilot(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
--> L29-List message posted by: "fougapilot" <fougapilot(at)hotmail.com (fougapilot(at)hotmail.com)>
So,
I am working on finding a Nitrogen leak on my R model. Truth be told, we are making progress. We went from losing it all in just under an hour to being able to keep the pressure for about 9hours. Still far from the book value of 2.5 ATM loss per hour, but at least the Nitrogen will now outlast the fuel... lol.
In reality, not taking into consideration usage, how long does a full charge last in your airplane?
Thanks for the help.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468648#468648
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Dawg
Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 355
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:31 pm Post subject: Nitrogen Loss |
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Mine lasts for weeks. But that took a lot of searching.
did you look under the floor at the brake valve? they tend to leak after awhile.
You will need to pull the front seat. It is under your left foot. the brake cable from the control stick
connects down there. The valve you are looking for is under the one where the cable connects. 2 airlines are connected to it.
19mm, short, bent, twisted wrench and tiny hands. Pretty much leaves you out.
If this is the one leaking, on a VERY quiet day you can hear it.
Fire cocks leak a lot, emergency brakes leak at the handle/valve.
Bill
| Quote: | On Apr 20, 2017, at 18:50, fougapilot <fougapilot(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
So,
I am working on finding a Nitrogen leak on my R model. Truth be told, we are making progress. We went from losing it all in just under an hour to being able to keep the pressure for about 9hours. Still far from the book value of 2.5 ATM loss per hour, but at least the Nitrogen will now outlast the fuel... lol.
In reality, not taking into consideration usage, how long does a full charge last in your airplane?
Thanks for the help.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468648#468648
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Dawg
Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 355
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:32 pm Post subject: Nitrogen Loss |
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Don’t pressurize the canopy it shouldn’t leak. Summer is coming. A nice breeze in the cockpit.
| Quote: | On Apr 20, 2017, at 19:18, Anthony Royal <skyking76t(at)verizon.net (skyking76t(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
My plane with a full charge will last about 2 days under normal use. There is a valve to the right of the front seat and behind the seat and your right arm that is connected to the canopy locking mechanism. When you lock the canopy it opens this valve so the canopy seal will inflate when you move the lever beside your right leg. This is not the valve attached to the pressurization lever. This valve also releases canopy seal pressure if you unlock the front canopy before you depressurize it. Taking this valve out of the system, I had a charge last over 8 days. This was with the plane static and no use but still pretty significant. If I could find a new valve, I would be golden.
On Thursday, April 20, 2017 8:52 PM, fougapilot <fougapilot(at)hotmail.com (fougapilot(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
--> L29-List message posted by: "fougapilot" <fougapilot(at)hotmail.com (fougapilot(at)hotmail.com)>
So,
I am working on finding a Nitrogen leak on my R model. Truth be told, we are making progress. We went from losing it all in just under an hour to being able to keep the pressure for about 9hours. Still far from the book value of 2.5 ATM loss per hour, but at least the Nitrogen will now outlast the fuel... lol.
In reality, not taking into consideration usage, how long does a full charge last in your airplane?
Thanks for the help.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468648#468648
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?L29-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http:p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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skyking76t(at)verizon.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:03 am Post subject: Nitrogen Loss |
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Very true. Lot of noise even with a helmet. Gets a little wet too flying in heavy rain.
On Thursday, April 20, 2017 10:34 PM, William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Don’t pressurize the canopy it shouldn’t leak. Summer is coming. A nice breeze in the cockpit.
| Quote: | On Apr 20, 2017, at 19:18, Anthony Royal <skyking76t(at)verizon.net (skyking76t(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
My plane with a full charge will last about 2 days under normal use. There is a valve to the right of the front seat and behind the seat and your right arm that is connected to the canopy locking mechanism. When you lock the canopy it opens this valve so the canopy seal will inflate when you move the lever beside your right leg. This is not the valve attached to the pressurization lever. This valve also releases canopy seal pressure if you unlock the front canopy before you depressurize it. Taking this valve out of the system, I had a charge last over 8 days. This was with the plane static and no use but still pretty significant. If I could find a new valve, I would be golden.
On Thursday, April 20, 2017 8:52 PM, fougapilot <fougapilot(at)hotmail.com (fougapilot(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
--> L29-List message posted by: "fougapilot" <fougapilot(at)hotmail.com (fougapilot(at)hotmail.com)>
So,
I am working on finding a Nitrogen leak on my R model. Truth be told, we are making progress. We went from losing it all in just under an hour to being able to keep the pressure for about 9hours. Still far from the book value of 2.5 ATM loss per hour, but at least the Nitrogen will now outlast the fuel... lol.
In reality, not taking into consideration usage, how long does a full charge last in your airplane?
Thanks for the help.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468648#468648
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?L29-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http:p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Dawg
Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 355
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:23 am Post subject: Nitrogen Loss |
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Refreshing, cool, and humid......
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 21, 2017, at 21:58, Anthony Royal <skyking76t(at)verizon.net (skyking76t(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Very true. Lot of noise even with a helmet. Gets a little wet too flying in heavy rain.
On Thursday, April 20, 2017 10:34 PM, William Geipel <l129bs(at)gmail.com (l129bs(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Don’t pressurize the canopy it shouldn’t leak. Summer is coming. A nice breeze in the cockpit.
| Quote: | On Apr 20, 2017, at 19:18, Anthony Royal <skyking76t(at)verizon.net (skyking76t(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
My plane with a full charge will last about 2 days under normal use. There is a valve to the right of the front seat and behind the seat and your right arm that is connected to the canopy locking mechanism. When you lock the canopy it opens this valve so the canopy seal will inflate when you move the lever beside your right leg. This is not the valve attached to the pressurization lever. This valve also releases canopy seal pressure if you unlock the front canopy before you depressurize it. Taking this valve out of the system, I had a charge last over 8 days. This was with the plane static and no use but still pretty significant. If I could find a new valve, I would be golden.
On Thursday, April 20, 2017 8:52 PM, fougapilot <fougapilot(at)hotmail.com (fougapilot(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
--> L29-List message posted by: "fougapilot" <fougapilot(at)hotmail.com (fougapilot(at)hotmail.com)>
So,
I am working on finding a Nitrogen leak on my R model. Truth be told, we are making progress. We went from losing it all in just under an hour to being able to keep the pressure for about 9hours. Still far from the book value of 2.5 ATM loss per hour, but at least the Nitrogen will now outlast the fuel... lol.
In reality, not taking into consideration usage, how long does a full charge last in your airplane?
Thanks for the help.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=468648#468648
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?L29-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http:p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
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dkloiber
Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 5:54 am Post subject: Re: Nitrogen Loss |
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I had a bad leak in my L29. I lost about 1atm in 10minutes. I checked all connections and found nothing wrong. Then I started taking out the pressure reduction valve and rebuild all of them with new diaphragm. Now, if I charge my nitrogen system to 90atm I will lose about 10atm in 3 weeks. I just went to my plane after 6 weeks and still had 50atm in the system.
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