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AEC2006 line filter

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Jedge

Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 1
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:19 am Post subject: AEC2006 line filter

As the AEC2006 line filter has been discontinued, I was wondering if the

values for the components are available, especially the toroidal choke. 

It was a neat unit, far lighter and much more compact than the old RadioShack one.  Several of the aircraft on our field are suffering from alt/ignition noise from the jabiru engines and a line filter to clean up the 

power supply to the radio may help. So far we have changed the coax from RG58 to RG400, re-routed power cables and installed ferrites, all to no avail.

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1920
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:36 am Post subject: Re: AEC2006 line filter

Noise filter:

http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/RS_Noise_Filters.pdf

_________________
Joe Gores

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1920
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:46 am Post subject: Re: AEC2006 line filter

"it's a 99% sure bet that adding a filter is not going to do the job"

http://forum.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16761065&sid=a41db49827ad23c5eefc5cad291ea0ed

_________________
Joe Gores

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1920
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:53 am Post subject: Re: AEC2006 line filter

There is DC to DC voltage converter on eBay for $13.24

http://tinyurl.com/jnjj9hj

Would it work to eliminate noise?

Joe

_________________
Joe Gores

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:19 am Post subject: AEC2006 line filter

On 4/1/2016 7:36 AM, user9253 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Noise filter:

 http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/RS_Noise_Filters.pdf



 --------

 Joe Gores

For low current demand devices:
	




If you're a scrounger, consider the crossover network from an old 

loudspeaker. They will likely be physically bigger (the inductors are 

typically air core instead of iron core), but close to free. Inductors 

should be in the range as the filters Bob described in the article. DC 

resistance might be a bit higher unless you're cannibalizing a large, 

high power speaker. Capacitors might well be a bit higher in capacity.



Google 'loudspeaker crossover design' to get an idea of potential 

component values. Most speaker components are either 4 or 8 ohms these 

days, and a 2 way speaker will cross over at somewhere between 500 and 

2500 HZ. A 3 way will cross over at ~400-1000 HZ, and at ~1500-4000 HZ.



Charlie

bob.verwey(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:08 am Post subject: AEC2006 line filter

This thread seems to cover mostly Alternator noise...what can be done about ignition noise?

I have just redone the mags, new p leads appropriately earthed on the mag side only, and some of those automotive style leads that are not screened. Continental IO 470.

At 2000 rpm it is like the noise generator turns on.

Are we in the same noise spectrum here?





On 1 April 2016 at 15:20, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)>

 

 On 4/1/2016 7:36 AM, user9253 wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Noise filter:

 http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/RS_Noise_Filters.pdf

 

 --------

 Joe Gores

 	
 For low current demand devices:

 

 If you're a scrounger, consider the crossover network from an old loudspeaker. They will likely be physically bigger (the inductors are typically air core instead of iron core), but close to free. Inductors should be in the range as the filters Bob described in the article. DC resistance might be a bit higher unless you're cannibalizing a large, high power speaker. Capacitors might well be a bit higher in capacity.

 

 Google 'loudspeaker crossover design' to get an idea of potential component values. Most speaker components are either 4 or 8 ohms these days, and a 2 way speaker will cross over at somewhere between 500 and 2500 HZ. A 3 way will cross over at ~400-1000 HZ, and at ~1500-4000 HZ.

 

 Charlie

 

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-- 

Best...Bob Verwey

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:44 am Post subject: AEC2006 line filter

At 03:19 AM 4/1/2016, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jedge" <jim(at)celectron.co.uk>



 As the AEC2006 line filter has been discontinued, I was wondering if the

 values for the components are available, especially the toroidal choke. 

 It was a neat unit, far lighter and much more compact than the old RadioShack one.  Several of the aircraft on our field are suffering from alt/ignition noise from the jabiru engines and a line filter to clean up the 

 power supply to the radio may help. So far we have changed the coax from RG58 to RG400, re-routed power cables and installed ferrites, all to no avail. 	


   Have you identified the propagation mode for this

   noise? You mention alt/ign . . . are you sure you're

   suffering effects from both antagonists.



   Solving a an electromagnetic compatibility issue

   is a bit like playing the board game "Clue". Pour

   all the possibilities into one bucket then

   work to eliminate them until you're down to

   one. Only after you've identified victim/propagation/

   antagonist are you ready to explore remedies.



   This process is described in chapter 16 of the

   'Connection. Tell us what the noise(s) sound

   like and what you've done to identify the

   antagonist(s). Do the board game switch flipping

   and knob twisting described in chapter 16.

   Give us all the evidence gathered and we'll

   have a MUCH better chance of offering a solution.



   The 2006 was originally designed to mitigate

   noise EMISSIONS from a particular but popular

   brand of turn-coordinator. It has been

   helpful in a limited number of other cases

   but experience has shown us that adding filters

   is usually a 'band-aid' over a design or 

   installation error.



   Keep in mind that for every airplane having

   a noise problem, there are thousands of airplanes

   that do not have a problem. It follows that

   root cause will most likely be found in

   the DIFFERENCE between how the problem airplane

   is built compared to those that don't have

   problems . . . without band-aids.



   I've identified the V/P/A configuration for

   issues on dozens of airplanes and MOST were

   rectified with very simple attention to architecture

   and installation basics. The only one I couldn't

   whip completely was HF transmitter interference

   to various and sundry systems on the Hawkers.  A

   change of HF antenna system turned the 'hell hole'

   on these airplanes into a rough equivalent

   of a microwave oven in which we were 'cooking'

   accessories designed as far back as 1970 . . . 

   before the HF system became an issue.



   . . . yes, we shipped a goodly number of airplanes

   with band-aids on them. This should not be the case

   for your airplane.

  



 

 

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:52 am Post subject: AEC2006 line filter

At 09:06 AM 4/1/2016, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  This thread seems to cover mostly Alternator noise...what can be done about ignition noise?

 I have just redone the mags, new p leads appropriately earthed on the mag side only, and some of those automotive style leads that are not screened. Continental IO 470.

 At 2000 rpm it is like the noise generator turns on.

 Are we in the same noise spectrum here? 	


   You need to identify the propagation mode

   first. Radiated or conducted? If conducted,

   which wires are affected, power or signal

   lines? If RPM sensitive, it might be something

   as simple as a poor joint that is agitated by

   vibration. 



 

 

   Bob . . .

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1920
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:34 am Post subject: Re: AEC2006 line filter

Any audio signal that gets amplified is very vulnerable to electrical noise.  Microphone jacks should be isolated from the airframe and mounted with insulating step washers.

_________________
Joe Gores

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:27 am Post subject: AEC2006 line filter

Most of the time, dc/dc converters are the noise source. 



-------- Original message --------

From: user9253  

Date:04/01/2016  7:53 AM  (GMT-06:00) 

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com 

Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AEC2006 line filter 

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>



There is DC to DC voltage converter on eBay for $13.24

http://tinyurl.com/jnjj9hj

Would it work to eliminate noise?

Joe



--------

Joe Gores





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454415#454415



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user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1920
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: AEC2006 line filter

You might be correct.  I suppose it all depends on the frequency of the oscillator.  Many electronic devices have a switching power supply, which I believe the DC to DC converter has.  If it operates above the range of human hearing, then I would expect it to be quiet.  Of course radio frequency interference is not desirable either.

_________________
Joe Gores

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:22 pm Post subject: AEC2006 line filter

At 06:40 PM 4/1/2016, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>



 You might be correct.  I suppose it all depends on the frequency of the oscillator.  Many electronic devices have a switching power supply, which I believe the DC to DC converter has.  If it operates above the range of human hearing, then I would expect it to be quiet.  Of course radio frequency interference is not desirable either. 	


   I've never met a 'barefooted' switchmode power

   supply that didn't talk to adjacent radios. Cigar

   lighter phone chargers are notorious for their

   willingness to trash broadcast signals to your

   car radio.



   Assuming the designer has the will, any switchmode

   power supply can be made EMC friendly . . . it's

   done all the time with appropriate filters, careful

   attention to board layout and perhaps some RF

   tight enclosure. But if somebody simply takes a

   design from the app-notes for some power supply

   controller chip . . . then I guarantee you that the

   circuit would not pass DO-160 conducted and radiated

   emissions tests. That's an EXTRA effort above and

   beyond making it work.



 

 

   Bob . . .

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