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Garmin's new low price approach to "EFIS"

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glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:28 am Post subject: Garmin's new low price approach to "EFIS"

For the folks going to SnF, can you have a talk and look at the Garmin 

boot for this:



https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/prod514383.html



interesting price, in difference to Dynon D2 it has pitot and static 

connection in addition to GPS, wonder how the horizon is setup (as no AHRS).



Please question them and post some feedback!



Cheers Werner

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yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:09 am Post subject: Garmin's new low price approach to "EFIS"

Looks like it might be similar to the trutrak gemini which uses static 

pressure to "align and stabilize" a rate gyro in pitch and gps track to 

do the same in roll.

Entirely adequate for me as an IFR rated pilot flying a VFR only 

aircraft or as an IFR backup. A huge improvement over needle ball and 

airspeed.

However I would not accept such an architecture as the primary ADI in a 

high performance aircraft. For example it will slowly align to show a 

level pitch attitude if the VSI is zero. Because that could be fatal as 

you slow it uses pitot pressure to warn you of low airspeed. Similarly 

in a sideslip with a constant heading it will gradually align to show 

wings level. So great for most uses but perhaps not so much for things 

like unusual attitude recovery. Again I'm only guessing that it might be 

similar to the trutrak gemini which I'm familiar with.

Ken



On 05/04/2016 7:26 AM, Werner Schneider wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <glastar(at)gmx.net>



 For the folks going to SnF, can you have a talk and look at the Garmin 

 boot for this:



 https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/prod514383.html



 interesting price, in difference to Dynon D2 it has pitot and static 

 connection in addition to GPS, wonder how the horizon is setup (as no 

 AHRS).



 Please question them and post some feedback!



 Cheers Werner

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glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:38 am Post subject: Garmin's new low price approach to "EFIS"

Thanks Ken,



and that is exactly what I wanted to know in order to compare the 

different backup instruments available 



Cheers Werner



On 05.04.2016 14:07, C&K wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Looks like it might be similar to the trutrak gemini which uses static

 pressure to "align and stabilize" a rate gyro in pitch and gps track to

 do the same in roll.

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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:54 am Post subject: Garmin's new low price approach to "EFIS"

Hello Werner



I will try to do it, if the GARMIN booth has no line to it ... 😟



Cheers from Florida

Carlos

Enviado do meu iPhone



No dia 05/04/2016, às 07:26, Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> escreveu:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 For the folks going to SnF, can you have a talk and look at the Garmin boot for this:

 

 https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/prod514383.html

 

 interesting price, in difference to Dynon D2 it has pitot and static connection in addition to GPS, wonder how the horizon is setup (as no AHRS).

 

 Please question them and post some feedback!

 

 Cheers Werner

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glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:23 am Post subject: Garmin's new low price approach to "EFIS"

Thanks Carlos,



like Ken pointed out most interesting will be how the attitude is done 

so loosing static or dyn pressure

will not impact attitude.



enjoy the show!



Cheers Werner



On 05.04.2016 14:52, Carlos Trigo wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hello Werner



 I will try to do it, if the GARMIN booth has no line to it ... 😟

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enginerdy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:07 am Post subject: Garmin's new low price approach to "EFIS"

 	  Quote: 	
		   wonder how the horizon is setup (as no AHRS).


	


Is the concern that it doesn't have a *remote* AHRS box? I'm not sure why such a thing is necessary when you can fit all the gyros in the panel-mounted instrument.



Daniel



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Apr 5, 2016, at 6:26 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 For the folks going to SnF, can you have a talk and look at the Garmin boot for this:

 

 https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/prod514383.html

 

 interesting price, in difference to Dynon D2 it has pitot and static connection in addition to GPS, wonder how the horizon is setup (as no AHRS).

 

 Please question them and post some feedback!

 

 Cheers Werner

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stein(at)steinair.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:18 am Post subject: Garmin's new low price approach to "EFIS"

I think you may have mistaken about the ADAHRS portion...not only does it

have an ADAHRS in it, but when connected to a full G3X system it can act as

a backup ADAHRS for the primary system as well as its own.



Cheers,

Stein



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glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:56 am Post subject: Garmin's new low price approach to "EFIS"

Thanks Stein,



probably just did not write enough details  and did not see it 

protruding behind the screen like a Dynon D10, so got it wrong.



There are different ADAHRS out there each having a certain software 

using different parameters to correct for drifting of the Gyros, some of 

them better some worse, it would be a very interesting thing to know 

which platform is using what algorithm/sensordata to correct, as this 

will have an influence on how the attitude indication will behave (as 

Ken noted).



For IFR I believe this is a very valid point to look at.



Remember that Aeroperu Flight 603 a B757 accident off Chiles coast, 3 

static ports were blocked with masking tape bringing a lot of erroneous 

indications in the cockpit during night time.



I would like to have two independent system if possible in the Cockpit, 

but would like to know how each of it would react to some errors in the 

signals received. Any list around detailing this?



Cheers



On 05.04.2016 16:17, Stein Bruch wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I think you may have mistaken about the ADAHRS portion...not only does it

 have an ADAHRS in it, but when connected to a full G3X system it can act as

 a backup ADAHRS for the primary system as well as its own.



 Cheers,

 Stein

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stein(at)steinair.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:46 am Post subject: Garmin's new low price approach to "EFIS"

Note that regarding a "protruding ADAHRS", there really is no such

relationship between how big an instrument is and what sensors it has in it

anymore.  For example, even the new certified digital attitude indicators

are only about 1" deep in totality (think Sandia, RC Allen, etc..).

Technology has changed drastically in short time periods.  I doubt you're

going to get any technical details on the aiding (if any), as most of the

companies hold that pretty close to their chest anymore.  Additionally, the

new crop of sensors are their core are really darned good (not laser ring

gyro good, but still good).  That 757 accident was drilled into our brains

at the airlines, but the stuff in a 57/67 is literally archaic in comparison

to what these new systems have in them (and we hopefully don't have cleaners

putting speed tape over our static ports when they dynol the gear and such)!

Anyway,  Here's some text directly from the Garmin engineers....(copied from

a post of theirs in an online forum):



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------

When we developed the original product goals and features, high on the list

was a requirement that the unit be the most robust and trusted backup

instrument on the market for customers using any brand of EFIS system,

including Garmin G3X and G3X Touch. To accomplish this, we knew we needed to

maintain a high level of independence and dissimilarity in both the hardware

and software design such that a common mode fault in either hardware or

software that could simultaneously affect both the G3X system and the backup

instrument be extremely improbable, if not impossible.



We started by choosing brand new attitude sensors. We have great sensors in

the GSU 25 ADAHRS and would have liked to re-use those, but to have the best

assurance that no common mode fault of these sensors could possibly

jeopardize the display of attitude information (however remote!), new

sensors were chosen, incorporated, and tested. On the software side we

started with a brand new simplified Garmin operating system that isn't

common with the one used in the G3X displays (which is quite large, complex,

and capable in comparison).



We kept out many features common to EFIS systems like internal database

loading/use (and thus synthetic vision) and Bluetooth to keep from having to

re-use or re-develop large bodies of code that are used in the G3X displays.

Not only is the G5 display rather compact in comparison to the big displays

and thus not the best place to attempt to show synthetic vision, but we

didn't want a backup instrument with over a million lines of code! We even

developed a new graphics library that operates very differently than the one

used in the G3X displays. Even the backlight is handled in a dissimilar

manner. Instead of following an aircraft lighting bus that might be common

to the large displays, the G5 uses either photocell backlighting control or

manual (your choice).



All of these features in combination with built-in independent WAAS GPS

receiver, airspeed, and altitude sensors means you can install this

instrument with confidence in any aircraft regardless of the brand of EFIS

system you are using.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------



Cheers,

Stein

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