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UK Insurance costs

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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:00 am Post subject: UK Insurance costs

On behalf of the club committee I am hoping to put together data on insurance costs in the UK. I shall plan to publish the details on the forum, in a totally anonymous tabulated form. If enough of you respond this should give us a good comparison of relative costs for trike vs mono and provide  a norm for a given hull value, allowing individuals to see whether their insurer is offering a reasonable deal. It might also form a basis for starting a Europa Club sponsored insurance deal. 

What I would like PLEASE is for all UK based Europa owners to send me: 

Current premium; insured hull value; insurer; plane configuration; hours europa flying; single insured or group?    I undertake to treat all such info in total confidence and to pass on only anonymised details. 

PLEASE REPLY TO MY PERSONAL EMAIL davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk or send anonymous info to my address: Stone Mill, Woodford, Berkeley, GL13 9JU if you prefer. 

Withs thanks in anticipation, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

PS for what it is worth I am happy to provide my own details: £1000, £42,000, Haywards, Mono, 1100hrs, single.

dpark748(at)icloud.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:32 am Post subject: UK Insurance costs

Â£1092 Â£35000 Jennings Trike 70 hours. Single

Regards

Dave Park G-LDVO



Sent from my iPhone



On 3 Apr 2016, at 11:58, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    

  

 On behalf of the club committee I am hoping to put together data on insurance costs in the UK. I shall plan to publish the details on the forum, in a totally anonymous tabulated form. If enough of you respond this should give us a good comparison of relative costs for trike vs mono and provide  a norm for a given hull value, allowing individuals to see whether their insurer is offering a reasonable deal. It might also form a basis for starting a Europa Club sponsored insurance deal. 

What I would like PLEASE is for all UK based Europa owners to send me: 

Current premium; insured hull value; insurer; plane configuration; hours europa flying; single insured or group?    I undertake to treat all such info in total confidence and to pass on only anonymised details. 

PLEASE REPLY TO MY PERSONAL EMAIL davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) or send anonymous info to my address: Stone Mill, Woodford, Berkeley, GL13 9JU if you prefer. 

Withs thanks in anticipation, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

PS for what it is worth I am happy to provide my own details: Â£1000, Â£42,000, Haywards, Mono, 1100hrs, single.

mike.davies210(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:50 am Post subject: UK Insurance costs

Â£950 Â£40,000 Trafford's, Taildragger. Single 110Hrs on type estimated 60 hours p/a

 Regards 

Mike Davies G-MLXP On 3 Apr 2016 3:36 p.m., "david park" <dpark748(at)icloud.com (dpark748(at)icloud.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  Â£1092 Â£35000 Jennings Trike 70 hours. Single

Regards

Dave Park G-LDVO



Sent from my iPhone



On 3 Apr 2016, at 11:58, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    

Â  

Â On behalf of the club committee I am hoping to put together data on insurance costs in the UK. I shall plan to publish the details on the forum, in a totally anonymous tabulated form. If enough of you respond this should give us a good comparison of relative costs for trike vs mono and provide Â a norm for a given hull value, allowing individuals to see whether their insurer is offering a reasonable deal. It might also form a basis for starting a Europa Club sponsored insurance deal. 

What I would like PLEASE is for all UK based Europa owners to send me: 

Current premium; insured hull value; insurer; plane configuration; hours europa flying; single insured or group? Â  Â I undertake to treat all such info in total confidence and to pass on only anonymised details. 

PLEASE REPLY TO MY PERSONAL EMAIL davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk or send anonymous info to my address: Stone Mill, Woodford, Berkeley, GL13 9JU if you prefer. 

Withs thanks in anticipation, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

PS for what it is worth I am happy to provide my own details: Â£1000, Â£42,000, Haywards, Mono, 1100hrs, single. Â

Jim Kelly

Joined: 25 Jan 2014
Posts: 70
Location: England

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:04 am Post subject: UK Insurance costs

Hi David,

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  I'm insured with Visicover my premium is Â£822 single combined limit with hull value Â£30,000.Â  Anticipated annual hours 100.Â  Taildragger.

Best wishes

Jim Kelly

G-BWEG

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 11:58 AM,  <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    

Â  

Â On behalf of the club committee I am hoping to put together data on insurance costs in the UK. I shall plan to publish the details on the forum, in a totally anonymous tabulated form. If enough of you respond this should give us a good comparison of relative costs for trike vs mono and provide Â a norm for a given hull value, allowing individuals to see whether their insurer is offering a reasonable deal. It might also form a basis for starting a Europa Club sponsored insurance deal. 

What I would like PLEASE is for all UK based Europa owners to send me: 

Current premium; insured hull value; insurer; plane configuration; hours europa flying; single insured or group? Â  Â I undertake to treat all such info in total confidence and to pass on only anonymised details. 

PLEASE REPLY TO MY PERSONAL EMAIL davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) or send anonymous info to my address: Stone Mill, Woodford, Berkeley, GL13 9JU if you prefer. 

Withs thanks in anticipation, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

PS for what it is worth I am happy to provide my own details: Â£1000, Â£42,000, Haywards, Mono, 1100hrs, single. Â

_________________
Jim GBWEG

Rick Moss

Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 96

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:23 am Post subject: Re: UK Insurance costs

Hi David, not fussed about confidentiality on this:

Â£688 with visicover

Valued at Â£35k

Hangared 

~80hrs on type, 70 hours per annum, 1000+ total

Tri Gear

Â£2.5m combined liability.

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:38 am Post subject: UK Insurance costs

Jim, Thanks for that. How many hrs have you on type? regards, David 

   

 

On 2016-04-03 17:03, James Kelly wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    Hi David,

                I'm insured with Visicover my premium is £822 single combined limit with hull value £30,000.  Anticipated annual hours 100.  Taildragger.

  

 Best wishes

 Jim Kelly

 G-BWEG

 

  On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 11:58 AM, <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk)> wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    

  

 On behalf of the club committee I am hoping to put together data on insurance costs in the UK. I shall plan to publish the details on the forum, in a totally anonymous tabulated form. If enough of you respond this should give us a good comparison of relative costs for trike vs mono and provide  a norm for a given hull value, allowing individuals to see whether their insurer is offering a reasonable deal. It might also form a basis for starting a Europa Club sponsored insurance deal. 

What I would like PLEASE is for all UK based Europa owners to send me: 

Current premium; insured hull value; insurer; plane configuration; hours europa flying; single insured or group?    I undertake to treat all such info in total confidence and to pass on only anonymised details. 

PLEASE REPLY TO MY PERSONAL EMAIL davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) or send anonymous info to my address: Stone Mill, Woodford, Berkeley, GL13 9JU if you prefer. 

Withs thanks in anticipation, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

PS for what it is worth I am happy to provide my own details: £1000, £42,000, Haywards, Mono, 1100hrs, single.

Jim Kelly

Joined: 25 Jan 2014
Posts: 70
Location: England

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:20 am Post subject: UK Insurance costs

Hi David, hours on type about 72.Â  I see that you have had a good response to your insurance request.Good luck & best wishesÂ 

Jim



On Monday, 4 April 2016,  <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    

Jim, Thanks for that. How many hrs have you on type? regards, David 

Â  Â 

 

On 2016-04-03 17:03, James Kelly wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    Hi David,

 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  I'm insured with Visicover my premium is Â£822 single combined limit with hull value Â£30,000.Â  Anticipated annual hours 100.Â  Taildragger.

 Â 

 Best wishes

 Jim Kelly

 G-BWEG

 

 

 On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 11:58 AM, <[url=javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk');]davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk[/url]> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		    

Â  

Â On behalf of the club committee I am hoping to put together data on insurance costs in the UK. I shall plan to publish the details on the forum, in a totally anonymous tabulated form. If enough of you respond this should give us a good comparison of relative costs for trike vs mono and provide Â a norm for a given hull value, allowing individuals to see whether their insurer is offering a reasonable deal. It might also form a basis for starting a Europa Club sponsored insurance deal. 

What I would like PLEASE is for all UK based Europa owners to send me: 

Current premium; insured hull value; insurer; plane configuration; hours europa flying; single insured or group? Â  Â I undertake to treat all such info in total confidence and to pass on only anonymised details. 

PLEASE REPLY TO MY PERSONAL EMAIL [url=javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk');]davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk[/url] or send anonymous info to my address: Stone Mill, Woodford, Berkeley, GL13 9JU if you prefer. 

Withs thanks in anticipation, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

PS for what it is worth I am happy to provide my own details: Â£1000, Â£42,000, Haywards, Mono, 1100hrs, single. Â

_________________
Jim GBWEG

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:14 am Post subject: UK Insurance costs

Many thanks to the 25+ who have already responded to my request for details of current insurance details. The results make interesting reading which will be of help to those contemplating renewal or insurance for the first time. I shall publish the results on this forum when further data stop coming in but it would be great to get some more details to make the conclusions that more reliable. 

   For those who may have missed the original posting I am looking for UK Europa insurance details of premium. insurer, mono/trike/taildragger, hull value insured, hrs experience on type and single or multiple pilots insured. Anonymity guaranteed as long as you reply to me rather than the forum! 

Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ

iancook_1(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:18 am Post subject: UK Insurance costs

David,

G-CBHI Sydney Charles at Â£1069 agreed hull value of Â£45k; please note this includes both the XS and Motor glider wings and trailer for MG and 3 named pilots.

 

Regards

 

Ian Cook

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk

Sent: 03 April 2016 11:58

To: europa list <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: UK Insurance costs

 

 

 On behalf of the club committee I am hoping to put together data on insurance costs in the UK. I shall plan to publish the details on the forum, in a totally anonymous tabulated form. If enough of you respond this should give us a good comparison of relative costs for trike vs mono and provide  a norm for a given hull value, allowing individuals to see whether their insurer is offering a reasonable deal. It might also form a basis for starting a Europa Club sponsored insurance deal.

What I would like PLEASE is for all UK based Europa owners to send me:

Current premium; insured hull value; insurer; plane configuration; hours europa flying; single insured or group?    I undertake to treat all such info in total confidence and to pass on only anonymised details.

PLEASE REPLY TO MY PERSONAL EMAIL davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) or send anonymous info to my address: Stone Mill, Woodford, Berkeley, GL13 9JU if you prefer.

Withs thanks in anticipation, David Joyce, GXSDJ

PS for what it is worth I am happy to provide my own details: Â£1000, Â£42,000, Haywards, Mono, 1100hrs, single.

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:04 am Post subject: UK Insurance costs

Very many thanks to the many folk who answered my request for insurance data. I attach two graphs, the first showing a comparison between Mon & Trike for those insured with Traffords, who insure something over 3/4 of the respondents, and the second showing other firm's position in relation to the same Traffords average line which appears in the first graph. A number of interesting points emerge: 

 1.  It is apparent that there is no clear difference between mono and trike insurance rates in the UK, as far as Traffords are concerned. This point is confirmed by a conversation that one of the committee had with Visicover, who said that the accident rates are no different and that they do not alter rates for each type. This should go some way to negate the view that the Mono is an accident waiting to happen, although as with so many things there is an element of self selection here and the experience and piloting skills of the two groups may not be the same! 

2. In the second graph there is a clear suggestion that Visicover offer appreciably lower rates than Traffords, (by  150 pounds or so) and this is confirmed by a couple of respondents who had had quotes from both, with Visicover being correspondingly cheaper. There is one anomalous  Visicover cost of 1180 pounds for 30k cover, but I guess there was something about that proposal that left Visicover deciding they would rather not have it on their books! Six premiums from Haywards feature as well as one from Jennings and one from Sydney Charles. These numbers are too small to make any very firm conclusions, but there is certainly a bit of a suggestion that Haywards may be a bit more expensive than Traffords. 

3. The scatter in the rates of course relates to such things a experience, instructor status etc, but those who find their premiums well away from the mean line may want to seek alternative quotes. 

4. Finally four respondents insured their planes third party & legal requirements only and paid premiums in the 300-400 pound range. There is certainly an argument that if you can afford to contemplate the cost of a write off then there is no point in comprehensive insurance, as insurance companies are of course making a profit out of our premiums! 

Happy landings, David Joyce, GXSDJ

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ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:37 pm Post subject: UK Insurance costs

Hi David,

 Thank you for that comparison David, very interesting to see the Mono vâ€™s  Trike.

 I am with Traffords here in NZ and only insure for Third Party Liability  Limited to $NZ1,000,000 which is 486,980 Pounds.

 Premium is $NZ110 which is 53.56 Pounds.

 My philosophy is that I am the only one who can fix the hull; would I be  alive to do it; only doing 40 hours a year;

 always in the back of my mind I have no insurance so I have to maintain and  fly the aircraft well; given me 13 years

 of good service and has already saved me $NZ46800 = Pounds 22,800.

 I did fully insure it for the first year for Flight Testing and gaining  experience.

  

 Comments?

  

 Kind regards,

  

 Tim

  

 Tim  Ward,

12 Waiwetu Street,

Fendalton,

Christchurch 8052

New  Zealand



Ph; 03 3515166

Mob; 0210640221



email;  ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz



    

  From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) 

 Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 5:02 AM

 To: europa list (europa-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: UK Insurance costs

  



  

Very many thanks to the many folk who answered my request for insurance data.  I attach two graphs, the first showing a comparison between Mon & Trike for  those insured with Traffords, who insure something over 3/4 of the respondents,  and the second showing other firm's position in relation to the same Traffords  average line which appears in the first graph. A number of interesting points  emerge: 

1.  It is apparent that there is no clear difference between mono and  trike insurance rates in the UK, as far as Traffords are concerned. This point  is confirmed by a conversation that one of the committee had with Visicover, who  said that the accident rates are no different and that they do not alter rates  for each type. This should go some way to negate the view that the Mono is an  accident waiting to happen, although as with so many things there is an element  of self selection here and the experience and piloting skills of the two groups  may not be the same! 

2. In the second graph there is a clear suggestion that Visicover offer  appreciably lower rates than Traffords, (by  150 pounds or so) and this is  confirmed by a couple of respondents who had had quotes from both, with  Visicover being correspondingly cheaper. There is one anomalous  Visicover  cost of 1180 pounds for 30k cover, but I guess there was something about that  proposal that left Visicover deciding they would rather not have it on their  books! Six premiums from Haywards feature as well as one from Jennings and one  from Sydney Charles. These numbers are too small to make any very firm  conclusions, but there is certainly a bit of a suggestion that Haywards may be a  bit more expensive than Traffords. 

3. The scatter in the rates of course relates to such things a experience,  instructor status etc, but those who find their premiums well away from the mean  line may want to seek alternative quotes. 

4. Finally four respondents insured their planes third party & legal  requirements only and paid premiums in the 300-400 pound range. There is  certainly an argument that if you can afford to contemplate the cost of a write  off then there is no point in comprehensive insurance, as insurance companies  are of course making a profit out of our premiums! 

Happy landings, David Joyce, GXSDJ

flyingphil2

Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 117

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:14 am Post subject: Re: UK Insurance costs

It's early days yet but I only have good things to say about Visicover.



It's all internet based and so I was able to spend a while playing tunes with the cover until I reached a premium I was happy with (just as you do when you get your car insurance).  Everything is very transparent and clear compared to the other situation of having to ask brokers numerous questions to clarify details.  At my time of application, I had 1 hour experience on type and the Visicover quote came in much lower than every other UK insurance provider.



Hopefully I'll never need to test how good they are at paying out for losses but my research at the time showed no cause for concern based on comments from others.

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:13 am Post subject: UK Insurance costs

It seems that some folk got the text of my posting about insurance without the graphs and on the assumption that the total size exceeded their limit I am attaching them one at a time, the first herewith David Joyce, GXSDJ

m_v_t.jpg

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Paul M 383

Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 97
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:20 pm Post subject: UK Insurance costs

Great work David, thanks!

 

I transferred the data into a spreadsheet so I could compare any quotes I get; attached here in case others may find this useful...

 

See the second tab, labelled â€˜Comparisonâ€™, where you can add your own new quotes and see how they compare. Needs Excel or another spreadsheet program (sic) to view/edit.

 

HTH,

 

Paul M

 

XS Mono 912S

 

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk

Sent: 13 April 2016 18:02

To: europa list <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: UK Insurance costs

 

Very many thanks to the many folk who answered my request for insurance data. I attach two graphs, the first showing a comparison between Mon & Trike for those insured with Traffords, who insure something over 3/4 of the respondents, and the second showing other firm's position in relation to the same Traffords average line which appears in the first graph. A number of interesting points emerge:

 1.  It is apparent that there is no clear difference between mono and trike insurance rates in the UK, as far as Traffords are concerned. This point is confirmed by a conversation that one of the committee had with Visicover, who said that the accident rates are no different and that they do not alter rates for each type. This should go some way to negate the view that the Mono is an accident waiting to happen, although as with so many things there is an element of self selection here and the experience and piloting skills of the two groups may not be the same!

2. In the second graph there is a clear suggestion that Visicover offer appreciably lower rates than Traffords, (by  150 pounds or so) and this is confirmed by a couple of respondents who had had quotes from both, with Visicover being correspondingly cheaper. There is one anomalous  Visicover cost of 1180 pounds for 30k cover, but I guess there was something about that proposal that left Visicover deciding they would rather not have it on their books! Six premiums from Haywards feature as well as one from Jennings and one from Sydney Charles. These numbers are too small to make any very firm conclusions, but there is certainly a bit of a suggestion that Haywards may be a bit more expensive than Traffords.

3. The scatter in the rates of course relates to such things a experience, instructor status etc, but those who find their premiums well away from the mean line may want to seek alternative quotes.

4. Finally four respondents insured their planes third party & legal requirements only and paid premiums in the 300-400 pound range. There is certainly an argument that if you can afford to contemplate the cost of a write off then there is no point in comprehensive insurance, as insurance companies are of course making a profit out of our premiums!

Happy landings, David Joyce, GXSDJ

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