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What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?

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jbsoar(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:38 pm Post subject: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?

The TDC tool is missing from my tool kit.Â  Has anyone had any luck with an automotive type? Â John B

Phoenix

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:12 am Post subject: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?

This one works well and I have used it for several years.  You may find it at other retailers.  14mm thread.



http://www.amazon.com/Innovative-Products-America-7880-Indicator/dp/B002XMOMA2

Dennis



       From: John B <jbsoar(at)gmail.com>

 To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 1:37 AM

 Subject: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?

  

 

The TDC tool is missing from my tool kit.  Has anyone had any luck with an automotive type?  John B

Phoenix

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:58 am Post subject: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?

Hi Dennis;

  

 Out of curiosity I checked the website you provided.   It sure  enough is a TDC indicating tool but could not work on any aircraft engine.   Check the user comments.

 Wrong website?

  

 Best;

 Walt

    

  From: A. Dennis Savarese (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net) 

 Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 5:11 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center  finder?

  



   This one works well and I have used  it for several years.  You may find it at other retailers.  14mm  thread.



  

 http://www.amazon.com/Innovative-Products-America-7880-Indicator/dp/B002XMOMA2

  

 Dennis



 

 

      From: John B  <jbsoar(at)gmail.com>

To:  Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list(at)matronics.com> 

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 1:37  AM

Subject: What are  folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?



   

  The TDC tool is missing from my tool kit.  Has anyone had any  luck with an automotive type?    John B

 Phoenix

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:03 am Post subject: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?

There is no tool other than the original, or a similar design with the same  features, that satisfies the TDC requirement for ignition timing of these  engines.

  

 There actually is such a tool, still currently manufactured in the US, that  could easily do this part of the timing process.   That is the  Time-Rite, been around forever and is complete with adaptors used to time  virtually every Western manufactured aircraft engine.

 However it has never been adapted to the Ivchenko series  engines.   It could be readily adapted for the TDC finding task but  still could not be used for timing of any Eastern magneto other than the  M9F.  Reason for which I could go into at another time.   I  believe it is available from ATS, probably around $1500.00 USD.

  

 The timing process for these engines requires a reasonably precise  knowledge of when, in terms of crankshaft rotation, the piston is at  TDC.   The piston however, sits at the top of stroke for approx. 8  degrees of crankshaft rotation.   We need to know the center of that  â€œdwellâ€ accurately.   The proper tool provides that.

  

 Suggest you contact Doug Sapp,  I expect he has them in stock.

  

 Walt

  

  

  Sent:  Saturday, April 09, 2016 10:37 PM

   To: Yak-List Digest Server (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center  finder?

  



  The TDC tool is missing from my tool kit.  Has anyone had any  luck with an automotive type?    John B

 Phoenix

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:44 pm Post subject: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?

Yes that's true Walt. But I know it works on M14's and HS6's. 

I would imagine the manufacturer never intended it to be used on an aircraft radial engine.  What I was looking for

when I found this several years ago was a TDC tool for 14mm threads.  Also one with a "ball" on the sliding component because of the plug thread angle to the top of the piston.  When I bought this one I knew it might not work.  I figured I could always return if it didn't work.  I've had it ever since. 

Best regards, 

Dennis 



Sent from my iPhone



On Apr 10, 2016, at 1:56 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca (wlannon(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		      Hi Dennis;

  

 Out of curiosity I checked the website you provided.   It sure  enough is a TDC indicating tool but could not work on any aircraft engine.   Check the user comments.

 Wrong website?

  

 Best;

 Walt

    

  From: A. Dennis Savarese (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net) 

 Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 5:11 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center  finder?

  



   This one works well and I have used  it for several years.  You may find it at other retailers.  14mm  thread.



  

 http://www.amazon.com/Innovative-Products-America-7880-Indicator/dp/B002XMOMA2

  

 Dennis



 

 

      From: John B  <jbsoar(at)gmail.com (jbsoar(at)gmail.com)>

To:  Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)> 

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 1:37  AM

Subject: What are  folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?



   

  The TDC tool is missing from my tool kit.  Has anyone had any  luck with an automotive type?    John B

 Phoenix

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:51 pm Post subject: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?

I have also used a digital timing indicator placed on the prop dome or spinner and threaded stop plug.  

http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=RSK-DX

Also purchased the 14mm and 18mm stop plug at the bottom of the page. 

Dennis



Sent from my iPhone



On Apr 10, 2016, at 3:02 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca (wlannon(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		      There is no tool other than the original, or a similar design with the same  features, that satisfies the TDC requirement for ignition timing of these  engines.

  

 There actually is such a tool, still currently manufactured in the US, that  could easily do this part of the timing process.   That is the  Time-Rite, been around forever and is complete with adaptors used to time  virtually every Western manufactured aircraft engine.

 However it has never been adapted to the Ivchenko series  engines.   It could be readily adapted for the TDC finding task but  still could not be used for timing of any Eastern magneto other than the  M9F.  Reason for which I could go into at another time.   I  believe it is available from ATS, probably around $1500.00 USD.

  

 The timing process for these engines requires a reasonably precise  knowledge of when, in terms of crankshaft rotation, the piston is at  TDC.   The piston however, sits at the top of stroke for approx. 8  degrees of crankshaft rotation.   We need to know the center of that  â€œdwellâ€ accurately.   The proper tool provides that.

  

 Suggest you contact Doug Sapp,  I expect he has them in stock.

  

 Walt

  

  

  Sent:  Saturday, April 09, 2016 10:37 PM

   To: Yak-List Digest Server (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center  finder?

  



  The TDC tool is missing from my tool kit.  Has anyone had any  luck with an automotive type?    John B

 Phoenix





    =================================== >www.buildersbooks.com matronics.com/contribution =================================== //www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List =================================== cs.com =================================== matronics.com/contribution ===================================

johnrobertnolan(at)gmail.
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:04 pm Post subject: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?

Dennis and I used this TDC tool to time my engine. It works well.



Regards,

John Nolan

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 2:51 PM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I have also used a digital timing indicator placed on the prop dome or spinner and threaded stop plug. Â 

http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=RSK-DX

Also purchased the 14mm and 18mm stop plug at the bottom of the page.Â 

Dennis



Sent from my iPhone



On Apr 10, 2016, at 3:02 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca (wlannon(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		      There is no tool other than the original, or a similar design with the same  features, that satisfies the TDC requirement for ignition timing of these  engines.

 Â 

 There actually is such a tool, still currently manufactured in the US, that  could easily do this part of the timing process.Â Â  That is the  Time-Rite, been around forever and is complete with adaptors used to time  virtually every Western manufactured aircraft engine.

 However it has never been adapted to the Ivchenko series  engines.Â Â  It could be readily adapted for the TDC finding task but  still could not be used for timing of any Eastern magneto other than the  M9F.Â  Reason for which I could go into at another time.Â Â  I  believe it is available from ATS, probably around $1500.00 USD.

 Â 

 The timing process for these engines requires a reasonably precise  knowledge of when, in terms of crankshaft rotation, the piston is at  TDC.Â Â  The piston however, sits at the top of stroke for approx. 8  degrees of crankshaft rotation.Â Â  We need to know the center of that  â€œdwellâ€ accurately.Â Â  The proper tool provides that.

 Â 

 Suggest you contact Doug Sapp,Â  I expect he has them in stock.

 Â 

 Walt

 Â 

 Â 

  Sent:  Saturday, April 09, 2016 10:37 PM

   To: Yak-List Digest Server (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center  finder?

 Â 



  The TDC tool is missing from my tool kit.Â  Has anyone had any  luck with an automotive type?Â Â   John B

 Phoenix





    ========== >www.buildersbooks.com matronics.com/contribution ========== //www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List ========== cs.com ========== matronics.com/contribution ==========

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:44 pm Post subject: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?

Hi Dennis;

  

 I guess the angle then is not acute enough to cause bending.    But it is designed for a centrally located spark plug hole at 90 deg. from the  piston surface.

  

 Cheers

 Walt

    

  From: A. Dennis Savarese (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net) 

 Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 1:44 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center  finder?

  



  Yes that's true Walt. But I know it works on M14's and HS6's. 

 I would imagine the manufacturer never intended it to  be used on an aircraft radial engine.  What I was looking for

 when I found this several years ago was a TDC tool  for 14mm threads.  Also one with a "ball" on the sliding component because  of the plug thread angle to the top of the piston.  When I bought this one  I knew it might not work.  I figured I could always return if it didn't  work.  I've had it ever since. 

 Best regards, 

 Dennis 

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Apr 10, 2016, at 1:56 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca (wlannon(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		              Hi Dennis;

    

   Out of curiosity I checked the website you provided.   It sure    enough is a TDC indicating tool but could not work on any aircraft    engine.  Check the user comments.

   Wrong website?

    

   Best;

   Walt

          

      From: A.    Dennis Savarese (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net) 

   Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 5:11 AM

   To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

   Subject: Re: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center    finder?

    



         This one works well and I have    used it for several years.  You may find it at other retailers.     14mm thread.



    

   http://www.amazon.com/Innovative-Products-America-7880-Indicator/dp/B002XMOMA2

    

   Dennis



   

   

                  From: John B <jbsoar(at)gmail.com (jbsoar(at)gmail.com)>

To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>    

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016    1:37 AM

Subject: Yak-List:    What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?



       

      The TDC tool is missing from my tool kit.  Has anyone had    any luck with an automotive type?      John B

   Phoenix

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:07 am Post subject: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?

I think you're right Walt.

BR

Dennis



       From: Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 11:43 PM

 Subject: Re: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?

  

 

   Hi Dennis;

  

 I guess the angle then is not acute enough to cause bending.    But it is designed for a centrally located spark plug hole at 90 deg. from the  piston surface.

  

 Cheers

 Walt

    

  From: A. Dennis Savarese (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net) 

 Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 1:44 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center  finder?



  

  Yes that's true Walt. But I know it works on M14's and HS6's. 

 I would imagine the manufacturer never intended it to  be used on an aircraft radial engine.  What I was looking for

 when I found this several years ago was a TDC tool  for 14mm threads.  Also one with a "ball" on the sliding component because  of the plug thread angle to the top of the piston.  When I bought this one  I knew it might not work.  I figured I could always return if it didn't  work.  I've had it ever since. 

 Best regards, 

 Dennis 

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Apr 10, 2016, at 1:56 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca (wlannon(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		              Hi Dennis;

    

   Out of curiosity I checked the website you provided.   It sure    enough is a TDC indicating tool but could not work on any aircraft    engine.  Check the user comments.

   Wrong website?

    

   Best;

   Walt

          

      From: A.    Dennis Savarese (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net) 

   Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 5:11 AM

   To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

   Subject: Re: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center    finder?

    



         This one works well and I have    used it for several years.  You may find it at other retailers.     14mm thread.

    

   http://www.amazon.com/Innovative-Products-America-7880-Indicator/dp/B002XMOMA2

    

   Dennis

   

   

                  From: John B <jbsoar(at)gmail.com (jbsoar(at)gmail.com)>To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>    Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016    1:37 AMSubject: Yak-List:    What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?

       

      The TDC tool is missing from my tool kit.  Has anyone had    any luck with an automotive type?      John B

   Phoenix

JL2A

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:31 am Post subject: Re: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?

Could those that use the stop plug technique please illuminate others on the method? I get it for direct drive engines but not so much for our geared variety..

clouddog22(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:31 am Post subject: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?

Is this the same process for the Housai?? On Apr 12, 2016 7:13 AM, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  Try this.Â Â  First, bring the #4 cylinder up on the compression stroke (you can feel the pressure push your finger off the spark plug hole.Â  Next, insert the stop plug.Â  Continue to rotate the prop in the same direction until the piston gently touches the stop plug.Â Â  Now zero your degree tool, whether it's the cone type disk or the digital protractor.Â  Rotate the prop in the opposite direction just enough to back the piston away from the stop plug.Â  Remove the stop plug.Â  Next, rotate the prop past the TDC point far enough to enable you to insert the stop plug again without it hitting the top of the piston. ie: reinstall the stop plug.Â  Then rotate the prop backwards until the piston once again touches the stop plug.Â  Read the number of degrees on the timing disk or digital protractor.Â  Divide the number of degrees by 2.Â  Remove the stop plug.Â  Continue to rotate the prop backwards until you reach the number of degrees you arrived at when you divided the total number of degrees by 2.Â  This should put the piston directly at TDC.



Hope this helps.

Dennis



       From: JL2A <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 7:31 AM

 Subject: Re: What are folks using for a Top-Dead-Center finder?

  

 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A" <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>



Could those that use the stop plug technique please illuminate others on the method? I get it for direct drive engines but not so much for our geared variety.. tried using it stop to stop degree of rotation divided by two, then added to initial prop angle value but answer was no where near TDC!





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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454866#454866



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