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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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 Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:27 pm Post subject: Firestar tail boom length... |
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Could call Bryan...but someone will know....what is the length of the
tail boom on the Firestar 1? Probably the same on the II also? Herb
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:19 pm Post subject: Firestar tail boom length... |
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13 feet on the FireStar 2.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 4/12/16, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> wrote:
Subject: Firestar tail boom length...
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, April 12, 2016, 1:26 PM
Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Could call Bryan...but someone will know....what is the
length of the
tail boom on the Firestar 1? Probably the same on the
II also? Herb
Lists This Month --
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Dralle, List Admin.
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:05 pm Post subject: Firestar tail boom length... |
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Thanks Bill
I have a bunch of 5 inch tubes that I bought Kolb many years ago...
lightly dented or scratched...tubes that they could not sell with a
kit...but very serviceable otherwise.. Wish I had bought the whole
trailer load...!!
Off to measure... Herb
On 04/12/2016 04:19 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
| Quote: |
13 feet on the FireStar 2.
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 4/12/16, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> wrote:
Subject: Firestar tail boom length...
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, April 12, 2016, 1:26 PM
Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Could call Bryan...but someone will know....what is the
length of the
tail boom on the Firestar 1? Probably the same on the
II also? Herb
Lists This Month --
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
Raiser. Click on
more about
Gifts provided
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-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
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Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.
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victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:55 pm Post subject: Firestar tail boom length... |
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Herb although it would be a custom, unapproved, unsupported modification, from an aerodynamic point of view it is possible to use a slightly shorter tailboom with a slightly larger size tail to achieve the same "tail volume" as a longer tailboom and a smaller tail.
So for example, you can lay out the drawings of the tail surfaces of a stock Firestar, and measure the square foot area. Multiply this by the distance between the center of that tail area and the center of gravity for the whole airplane. You will get a CUBIC foot dimension (sq ft of area times linear ft of tailboom), which is expressed as "Tail volume". If you shorten the tailboom by 6 inches or a foot you can compensate by enlarging the tails proportionately according to that formula, and you SHOULD THEORETICALLY have the same flight characteristics as you would have with the stock design. It never works out exactly the same, but it will likely not be unsafe or dangerous.
There are significant common sense limits to this of course. But the point is that if you want to build a Firestar and your longest tube is 12 feet long, you are not "sunk".
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 4/12/16, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Firestar tail boom length...
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, April 12, 2016, 3:05 PM
Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Thanks Bill
I have a bunch of 5 inch tubes that I
bought Kolb many years ago...
lightly dented or scratched...tubes that they could not sell
with a
kit...but very serviceable otherwise.. Wish I had bought the
whole
trailer load...!!
Off to measure... Herb
On 04/12/2016 04:19 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
>
> 13 feet on the FireStar 2.
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance
upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for non-profit and
for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 4/12/16, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
wrote:
>
> Subject: Firestar tail boom
length...
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, April 12, 2016, 1:26
PM
>
>
> Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
>
> Could call Bryan...but someone will
know....what is the
> length of the
> tail boom on the Firestar 1?
Probably the same on the
> II also? Herb
>
> Lists This Month --
> Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
> Raiser. Click on
> more about
> Gifts provided
> www.buildersbooks.com
>
-Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
> Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
>
-Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
Foster...Third red light and turn left.
Lists This Month --
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
Raiser. Click on
more about
Gifts provided
www.buildersbooks.com
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:10 pm Post subject: Firestar tail boom length... |
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I am a foot and a half short...but the fuselage design will not be the
same anyhow...The distance from the tail boom H section bolt to the tail
is all that concerns me currently..fromdistance from the bolt forward
can be worked around safely...Herb
On 04/12/2016 05:55 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
| Quote: |
Herb although it would be a custom, unapproved, unsupported modification, from an aerodynamic point of view it is possible to use a slightly shorter tailboom with a slightly larger size tail to achieve the same "tail volume" as a longer tailboom and a smaller tail.
So for example, you can lay out the drawings of the tail surfaces of a stock Firestar, and measure the square foot area. Multiply this by the distance between the center of that tail area and the center of gravity for the whole airplane. You will get a CUBIC foot dimension (sq ft of area times linear ft of tailboom), which is expressed as "Tail volume". If you shorten the tailboom by 6 inches or a foot you can compensate by enlarging the tails proportionately according to that formula, and you SHOULD THEORETICALLY have the same flight characteristics as you would have with the stock design. It never works out exactly the same, but it will likely not be unsafe or dangerous.
There are significant common sense limits to this of course. But the point is that if you want to build a Firestar and your longest tube is 12 feet long, you are not "sunk".
Bill Berle
www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft
www.grantstar.net - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 4/12/16, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: Firestar tail boom length...
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, April 12, 2016, 3:05 PM
Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Thanks Bill
I have a bunch of 5 inch tubes that I
bought Kolb many years ago...
lightly dented or scratched...tubes that they could not sell
with a
kit...but very serviceable otherwise.. Wish I had bought the
whole
trailer load...!!
Off to measure... Herb
On 04/12/2016 04:19 PM, Bill Berle wrote:
>
>
> 13 feet on the FireStar 2.
>
> Bill Berle
> www.ezflaphandle.com - safety & performance
upgrade for light aircraft
> www.grantstar.net
- winning proposals for non-profit and
for-profit entities
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 4/12/16, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
wrote:
>
> Subject: Firestar tail boom
length...
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, April 12, 2016, 1:26
PM
>
>
> Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
>
> Could call Bryan...but someone will
know....what is the
> length of the
> tail boom on the Firestar 1?
Probably the same on the
> II also? Herb
>
> Lists This Month --
> Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
> Raiser. Click on
> more about
> Gifts provided
> www.buildersbooks.com
>
-Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
> Forum -
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
>
-Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr.
Foster...Third red light and turn left.
Lists This Month --
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
Raiser. Click on
more about
Gifts provided
www.buildersbooks.com
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
|
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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racerjerry
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:19 am Post subject: Re: Firestar tail boom length... |
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As you say, the stock boom on the Firestar II is 13 feet long as per the plans. When I built my own Firestar II, I wanted a bit more lively performance, so I clipped the wing tips and shortened the tail boom tube to 12 feet. Prior to doing so, I ran my plan past Dennis; who confessed that his Firestar demonstrator airplane was also shortened one foot.
1.5 feet? I wouldn't worry about it! Just do your W&B with extra care and make sure your CG falls within the acceptable range and not TOO nose heavy when loaded with YOU in the airplane.
BYW, If there are any defects in your boom tube, install the problem area toward the AFT end, as all the stress is up front where the tube joins the fuselage structure.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Jerry King |
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:32 am Post subject: Firestar tail boom length... |
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1.5 feet? I wouldn't worry about it! Just do your W&B with extra care and
make sure your CG falls within the acceptable range and not TOO nose heavy
when loaded with YOU in the airplane.
--------
Jerry King
Jerry K/Kolbers:
I shortened the tail boom of my MKIII 1 foot initially. The airplane never
wanted to settle down in cruise. Was like trying to fly on a ball. Get it
on top for a few seconds, then it would fall off in no predetermined
direction.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, a CGS wooden prop came apart, think a dual
K&N air filter went through it, destroying the shortened tail boom. I
replaced it with a standard length boom. Problem solved.
My idea was... by shortening the tail boom I could get a better three point
stance and STOL performance. It didn't work.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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GeoB
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:31 pm Post subject: Firestar tail boom length... |
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| Quote: | and your longest tube is 12 feet long, you are not "sunk".
|
There is a fellow here in Fresno CA who is getting out of the plane
business. He has several new boom tubes, wants to sell em.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
GeoB
"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors" |
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:46 pm Post subject: Firestar tail boom length... |
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He should contact Bryan at the factory... the 20 footers they sell go
for $500.
shipping is getting to be prohibitive...Herb
On 04/14/2016 07:31 PM, George Bearden wrote:
| Quote: |
> and your longest tube is 12 feet long, you are not "sunk".
There is a fellow here in Fresno CA who is getting out of the plane
business. He has several new boom tubes, wants to sell em.
|
--
Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:33 pm Post subject: Firestar tail boom length... |
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I need one, what is he asking for them?
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 4/14/16, George Bearden <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
There is a fellow here in Fresno CA who is getting out of
the plane
business. He has several new boom tubes, wants to sell em.
Lists This Month --
Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
Raiser. Click on
more about
Gifts provided
www.buildersbooks.com
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
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