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kenryan
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426
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 Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 1:24 pm Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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Attached are two pictures, one shows the type of terminals I am trying to crimp, the other shows the three crimpers I have bought, none of which works on these terminals.
The terminals, as best I can determine, are Delphi AF Female Unsealed #12131456 (for wire 18-22). They are to be used in a fuse block with the terminal being the output side of the fuse holder.Â
The blue handled crimper is the one sold to me when I bought the fuse block and terminals. The red handled crimper is one that I bought from SteinAir after the red ones didn't work. The other crimper is a Delphi that I bought from Mouser after researching the terminals (and failing with the SteinAir crimper). None of these crimpers even comes close to working. I am inexperienced, but I have crimped "regular" Molex type terminals using the blue handled crimpers, no problem. Everything worked just as expected with the ears turning to dive into the wire strands, etc. But I have ruined at least 10-15 terminals trying to get a satisfactory crimp with these three tools, and none of them seems to work properly. Please see attached pictures. Thanks for any help and advice.
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 2:31 pm Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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At 04:22 PM 5/2/2016, you wrote:
| Quote: | Attached are two pictures, one shows the type of terminals I am trying to crimp, the other shows the three crimpers I have bought, none of which works on these terminals.
The terminals, as best I can determine, are Delphi AF Female Unsealed #12131456 (for wire 18-22). They are to be used in a fuse block with the terminal being the output side of the fuse holder.Â
The blue handled crimper is the one sold to me when I bought the fuse block and terminals. The red handled crimper is one that I bought from SteinAir after the red ones didn't work. The other crimper is a Delphi that I bought from Mouser after researching the terminals (and failing with the SteinAir crimper). None of these crimpers even comes close to working. I am inexperienced, but I have crimped "regular" Molex type terminals using the blue handled crimpers, no problem. Everything worked just as expected with the ears turning to dive into the wire strands, etc. But I have ruined at least 10-15 terminals trying to get a satisfactory crimp with these three tools, and none of them seems to work properly. Please see attached pictures. Thanks for any help and advice. |
Getting the perfect 'curl-over' with b-crimps
is a bit problematic . . . especially if the
terminal material is thick. My friend Dave
Swartzendruber used to sell that fuse block
to Ford Bronco restoration enthusiasts . . .
I'll drop Dave a note and see what his
experience was with those parts.
Do you have or can you get any extra terminals
as loose parts?
Bob . . .
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kenryan
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 2:45 pm Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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I still have a few extra terminals. Mouser seems to have a minimum order of 20,000 pieces!
On Monday, May 2, 2016, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 04:22 PM 5/2/2016, you wrote:
| Quote: | Attached are two pictures, one shows the type of terminals I am trying to crimp, the other shows the three crimpers I have bought, none of which works on these terminals.
The terminals, as best I can determine, are Delphi AF Female Unsealed #12131456 (for wire 18-22). They are to be used in a fuse block with the terminal being the output side of the fuse holder.Â
The blue handled crimper is the one sold to me when I bought the fuse block and terminals. The red handled crimper is one that I bought from SteinAir after the red ones didn't work. The other crimper is a Delphi that I bought from Mouser after researching the terminals (and failing with the SteinAir crimper). None of these crimpers even comes close to working. I am inexperienced, but I have crimped "regular" Molex type terminals using the blue handled crimpers, no problem. Everything worked just as expected with the ears turning to dive into the wire strands, etc. But I have ruined at least 10-15 terminals trying to get a satisfactory crimp with these three tools, and none of them seems to work properly. Please see attached pictures. Thanks for any help and advice. |
 Getting the perfect 'curl-over' with b-crimps
 is a bit problematic . . . especially if the
 terminal material is thick. My friend Dave
 Swartzendruber used to sell that fuse block
 to Ford Bronco restoration enthusiasts . . .
 I'll drop Dave a note and see what his
 experience was with those parts.
 Do you have or can you get any extra terminals
 as loose parts?
 Bob . . .
|
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1927
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: finding the correct crimper |
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Waytek sells the terminals, minimum 50.
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_________________
Joe Gores |
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ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 8:35 pm Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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Hi;
I suggest the following sequence:
1. Strip off about 5/8" to bare the conductor.
2. Turn the bare conductor back over the insulation to guarantee good contact within the terminal.
3. I noticed there is too much flare on your terminals, so close the flare to at least parallel with pliers. If you don't do this the terminal won't enter the die properly.
4. Insert the wire into the terminal with the bare conductor deepest into the terminal.
5. Crimp the terminal. The final result should look like a U with the legs turned inward almost 180 degrees. These turned inward legs probably will cut through the insulation and make contact with the conductor. They're supposed to, but with the method outlined the connection will function regardless.
Cheers! Stu.
---
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kenryan
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 6:52 am Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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Thanks Joe.
| Quote: |
Waytek sells the terminals, minimum 50.
--------
Joe Gores
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kenryan
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 6:53 am Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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Thanks Stu, I'll give it a try.
On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 8:33 PM, <ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net (ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi;
I suggest the following sequence:
1. Strip off about 5/8" to bare the conductor.
2. Turn the bare conductor back over the insulation to guarantee good contact within the terminal.
3. I noticed there is too much flare on your terminals, so close the flare to at least parallel with pliers. If you don't do this the terminal won't enter the die properly.
4. Insert the wire into the terminal with the bare conductor deepest into the terminal.
5. Crimp the terminal. The final result should look like a U with the legs turned inward almost 180 degrees. These turned inward legs probably will cut through the insulation and make contact with the conductor. They're supposed to, but with the method outlined the connection will function regardless.
Cheers!  Stu.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455777#455777
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 7:17 am Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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At 07:08 PM 5/2/2016, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
Waytek sells the terminals, minimum 50. |
I poked around on there a bit and didn't
find them . . . can you shoot me a link?
Thanks!
Bob . . .
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kenryan
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 7:43 am Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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They are showing a different part number than mouser, but this looks like them:
https://www.waytekwire.com/item/30038/Delphi-12020334-Pack-Con-Female-Loose-Terminal-/
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 7:16 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 07:08 PM 5/2/2016, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>
Waytek sells the terminals, minimum 50. |
 I poked around on there a bit and didn't
 find them . . . can you shoot me a link?
 Thanks!
 Bob . . .
|
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Bob McC
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 258
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 9:08 am Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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Stu;
If I interpret your explanation correctly, you're advocating trapping the
insulation along with the wire strands in the wire part of the crimp?? If this
is the case DO NOT DO IT. The wire part of the crimp is intended to provide a
homogeneous gas tight mass of copper for long term electrical continuity. Having
insulation material within this portion of the crimp will seriously compromise
the integrity of the connection by allowing air and moisture infiltration. The
insulation should only be within the insulation portion of the crimp and ONLY
the bare copper strands should be in the wire portion of the crimp.
Bob McC
[quote] --------
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_________________
Bob McC
Falco #908
(just starting) |
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1927
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 9:42 am Post subject: Re: finding the correct crimper |
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I agree with Bob McC. Do not crimp insulation and bare wire together.
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 10:14 am Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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At 10:41 AM 5/3/2016, you wrote:
aha! thanks. got some on order . . . but my sense
is that these are no different than the broad
family of open barrel terminals. I'll play with
them a bit and perhaps do a comic-book on them
. . . and yes . . . gas-tight, metal on metal
joints in the wire grip is the design goal.
Gentle bear-hug in the insulation grip. Here's
a similar process on a smaller scale.
http://tinyurl.com/9c444zm
Bob . . .
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kenryan
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 11:26 am Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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Bob, I used your instructions for crimping regular molex terminals and it all worked perfectly, but these thicker, tougher terminals just won't cooperate. Here's a link on delphi to a "crimp information sheet"
http://delphi.com/docs/default-source/ecatalog-documents/12131456-crimpinformationsheet-pdf.pdf?Status=Master&sfvrsn=0
I could not find anything helpful on it.
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 10:41 AM 5/3/2016, you wrote:
 aha! thanks. got some on order . . . but my sense
 is that these are no different than the broad
 family of open barrel terminals. I'll play with
 them a bit and perhaps do a comic-book on them
Â
 . . . and yes . . . gas-tight, metal on metal
 joints in the wire grip is the design goal.
 Gentle bear-hug in the insulation grip. Here's
 a similar process on a smaller scale.
http://tinyurl.com/9c444zm
 Bob . . .
|
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 12:31 pm Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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At 02:24 PM 5/3/2016, you wrote:
Me neither . . . as soon as my samples
are in, I'll get some hands-on calibration
for the task. Watch this space . . .
Bob . . .
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kenryan
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 12:39 pm Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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I've been able to further determine that these terminals are "Series III Pack-Con" variety and have ordered an expensive crimper that is supposed to work on them. Soon I will be opening a lightly used crimper store.
On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 9:42 AM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>
I agree with Bob McC. Do not crimp insulation and bare wire together.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455812#455812
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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:13 am Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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Hi Bob;
I may have entered the conversation late, but was commenting on ignition wires. I will recheck mine and see if I have done anything wrong.
Cheers! Stu.
---
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 9:52 am Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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Those are fuse terminals.
-------- Original message --------
From: ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net
Date:05/04/2016 10:11 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: finding the correct crimper
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net
Hi Bob;
I may have entered the conversation late, but was commenting on ignition wires. I will recheck mine and see if I have done anything wrong.
Cheers! Stu.
---
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ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 6:24 pm Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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Hi Bob;
Thanks.
Cheers! Stu.
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 10:50:49 AM
Subject: Re: Re: finding the correct crimper
Those are fuse terminals.
-------- Original message --------
From: ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net
Date:05/04/2016 10:11 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: finding the correct crimper
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net
Hi Bob;
I may have entered the conversation late, but was commenting on ignition wires. I will recheck mine and see if I have done anything wrong.
Cheers! Stu.
---
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2016 11:01 am Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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At 12:50 PM 5/4/2016, you wrote:
| Quote: | Those are fuse terminals.
|
My samples came in last week but didn't get
to work with them until today. Here are
the results of terminal installations selecting
from the same spectrum of in-expensive b-crimp
tools in my collection.
The terminal pictured is that 12020334 Pack-Con
Series III female terminal used in a variety
of fuse blocks, relay harness connectors, etc.
This is an 18-20AWG rated device.
I've installed several onto 20AWG Tefzel
with b-crimp tools like the BCT-1, Amp Service
Tool-II, Molex etc.
I was able to produce a satisfactory
wire-grip with pull-out resistance
exceeding 10 pounds.
[img]cid:.0[/img]
Given that these terminals are engineered
for automotive PVC and similar instalations,
the insulation grip flags are a bit
long for Tefzel. I prefer not to use
a b-crimp die but, instead . . .
[img]cid:.1[/img]
[img]cid:.2[/img]
I mold these too-long flags into the 'bear-
hug' I have illustrated for the Mate-n-Lok
and Molex open barrel pins. Yeah, the meal on
this pins is a bit thicker but they behaved
quite civilly with the tools I've used
for years.
[img]cid:.3[/img]
This last shot shows the larger 16-14AWG
terminal installed on a piece of 14AWG
automotive and 16AWG Tefzel with satisfactory
results.
[img]cid:.4[/img]
No special tools needed . . .
Bob . . .
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kenryan
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2016 12:00 pm Post subject: finding the correct crimper |
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Thanks for the report Bob. I wish I could duplicate your results, but on all of mine either the wires pull out easily, or if I use a smaller setting it mangles the terminal. I am assuming that your 10 pound pull out is prior to the insulation crimp, right? I have another tool ordered which should be here this week. I am hoping it works a lot better than the three I have already tried.
On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 12:50 PM 5/4/2016, you wrote:
| Quote: | Those are fuse terminals.
|
 My samples came in last week but didn't get
 to work with them until today. Here are
 the results of terminal installations selecting
 from the same spectrum of in-expensive b-crimp
 tools in my collection.
 The terminal pictured is that 12020334 Pack-Con
 Series III female terminal used in a variety
 of fuse blocks, relay harness connectors, etc.
 This is an 18-20AWG rated device.
 I've installed several onto 20AWG Tefzel
 with b-crimp tools like the BCT-1, Amp Service
 Tool-II, Molex etc.
 I was able to produce a satisfactory
 wire-grip with pull-out resistance
 exceeding 10 pounds.
[img]cid:.0[/img]
 Given that these terminals are engineered
 for automotive PVC and similar instalations,
 the insulation grip flags are a bit
 long for Tefzel. I prefer not to use
 a b-crimp die but, instead . . .
[img]cid:.1[/img]
[img]cid:.2[/img]
I mold these too-long flags into the 'bear-
hug' I have illustrated for the Mate-n-Lok
and Molex open barrel pins. Yeah, the meal on
this pins is a bit thicker but they behaved
quite civilly with the tools I've used
for years.
[img]cid:.3[/img]
 This last shot shows the larger 16-14AWG
 terminal installed on a piece of 14AWG
 automotive and 16AWG Tefzel with satisfactory
 results.
[img]cid:.4[/img]
 No special tools needed . . .
 Bob . . .
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