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Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

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GBWFH2010

Joined: 31 Jul 2011
Posts: 38

Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 6:54 am Post subject: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

As part of my investigations into the cause of very high oil temps on my Classic I am considering moving the oil cooler to a dedicated cowling inlet. Have any other Classic owners done this and, if so, would you be willing to let me have some details on how you achieved this?



Also, the dreaded question. Would I have to classify this as a mod as far as the LAA were concerned?

 

Finally I show below the text of my post on the Rotax forum. If anyone has any ideas I would be delighted to hear them!



Aircraft:  Europa Classic Tri Gear

Engine :  Rotax 912 UL (80HP) TT 440 hours

Propeller:  Airmaster 



I am having a major problem with excessive oil temperature. The Europa Classic is not brilliant when it comes to cooling due to the design ‘feature’ of having the oil cooler mounted behind the left hand coolant radiator and I have carried out all the recommended ‘mods’ suggested by other Europa owners to improve cooling. These have helped and but now the weather is getting warmer (21 degrees!) I have discovered things have taken a turn for the worse.



My last three flights have been a nightmare due to soaring oil temperature. For example, yesterday I started my take off roll with an oil temp of 80C and had to reduce power and level off after less than two minutes (1300 ft) with the oil temp approaching 130C and CHT of 120C. Cruising at that level quickly drops the CHT to 110C but the oil takes an age to fall below 120C. If I can get the aircraft into the cruise above 2500ft the temps stabilise at just below 110C Oil and 100C CHT, the problem is I just can’t get that high at the moment.



I have not changed anything on the aircraft so I am assuming it must be an engine problem.  The oil level is always correct and I use Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 and Rotax filters. The oil has done less than 20 hours and I use MOGAS with no ethanol. Oil pressure is OK and is about 2.8 – 3 Bar at a normal cruise.   



Does anyone have any ideas what could possibly be causing this problem? I really hope so as I am not going anywhere as things stand!



Gordon Grant

Europa Classic G-BWFH

_________________
Gordon Grant

G-BWFH

dg.watts(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 8:22 am Post subject: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

Gordon,



I moved my oil cooler years ago. I mounted the cooler to the engine, centrally below the spinner arc which allows me to remove the cowling S without removing the cooler. I made a smiley face opening in the cowl and formed walls to duct the air straight to the cooler.



This is not a 100% cure and excess climbing does require throttling back, but most normal climbs can be performed ok, and once levelled off my temps drop quite quickly and in the current 25 degrees I get very low 100s or even high 90s for the oil temps and CHTs at 90



Unfortunately this does fall within the requirements for a LAA Mod.



Dave Watts

G-BXDY Monowheel Classic 2,200 hrs.



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 13 May 2016, at 15:54, GBWFH2010 <gaxuk2001(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 As part of my investigations into the cause of very high oil temps on my Classic I am considering moving the oil cooler to a dedicated cowling inlet. Have any other Classic owners done this and, if so, would you be willing to let me have some details on how you achieved this?

 

 Also, the dreaded question. Would I have to classify this as a mod as far as the LAA were concerned?

 

 Finally I show below the text of my post on the Rotax forum. If anyone has any ideas I would be delighted to hear them!

 

 Aircraft:  Europa Classic Tri Gear

 Engine :  Rotax 912 UL (80HP) TT 440 hours

 Propeller:  Airmaster 

 

 I am having a major problem with excessive oil temperature. The Europa Classic is not brilliant when it comes to cooling due to the design ‘feature’ of having the oil cooler mounted behind the left hand coolant radiator and I have carried out all the recommended ‘mods’ suggested by other Europa owners to improve cooling. These have helped and but now the weather is getting warmer (21 degrees!) I have discovered things have taken a turn for the worse.

 

 My last three flights have been a nightmare due to soaring oil temperature. For example, yesterday I started my take off roll with an oil temp of 80C and had to reduce power and level off after less than two minutes (1300 ft) with the oil temp approaching 130C and CHT of 120C. Cruising at that level quickly drops the CHT to 110C but the oil takes an age to fall below 120C. If I can get the aircraft into the cruise above 2500ft the temps stabilise at just below 110C Oil and 100C CHT, the problem is I just can’t get that high at the moment.

 

 I have not changed anything on the aircraft so I am assuming it must be an engine problem.  The oil level is always correct and I use Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 and Rotax filters. The oil has done less than 20 hours and I use MOGAS with no ethanol. Oil pressure is OK and is about 2.8 – 3 Bar at a normal cruise.   

 

 Does anyone have any ideas what could possibly be causing this problem? I really hope so as I am not going anywhere as things stand!

 

 Gordon Grant

 Europa Classic G-BWFH

 

 --------

 Gordon Grant

 

 G-BWFH

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456186#456186

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 12:18 pm Post subject: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

Hi Gordon,

I moved my oil cooler  to below the spinner like David when I first built the aircraft. That was recommended by other builders who had brought the Rotax 912ULS 100hp engine which produces 8% more heat that the Rotax 912UL 80hp engine. I am surprised you have problems with the 80 hp motor and cooling as that was the original configuration and was proven. The 100hp came with a Fiberglass air shroud cover to be place over the engine to allow better flow of air for cooling. I therefore had to form a round inlet on the starboard side to allow air to enter for that shroud.

This is what I did for the oil cooler;

*With the engine cowlings still in place cut an inlet hole directly below and central to the spinner the shape and size of the oil cooler. Rounded corners.

*Take the engine cowlings off and with a piece of blue foam that came with the aircraft shape the foam to form the inner walls of the inlet. The walls protrude inwards not outwards like a Spitfire nose as there is enough room below the engine to fit the oil cooler vertically upright.

*Fiberglass around the inlet foam with 3/4 layers of Bi-directional glass using Vaseline as a barrier on the foam to withdraw it after cure. Run the glass Bid well onto the cowling around the foam for attachment and strength.

*Once cured withdraw the foam and apply Fiberglass with peel ply to the inlet inner surface to give a smooth result before filling and painting.

*Cut the inlet protrusion to accommodate  the oil cooler as far forward as possible to allow room for the oil cooler and space behind for air to escape. Make sure the cooler is vertically upright when in level flight.

*Form a platform out of Fiberglass for the oil cooler to rest on and Fiberglass it onto the bottom inner protrusion and cowling. Once cured drill a hole for the oil cooler metal protrusion to slot into at the correct position.

*Make a similar small platform at the top left hand side (looking forward) for the oil cooler connection to secure its position with the two bolts. So that the oil cooler can pop out when taking the bottom cowling off once the bolts are removed. When attaching the bottom cowling to the aircraft you have to place the oil cooler in position first and bolt it on then move cowling into position and attach.

* Oil pipes run from the oil tank, left hand side of engine bay, to the oil cooler underneath the port water radiator and then from the oil cooler, starboard side under the starboard water radiator around in a loop back to the oil inlet connection to the engine.

I am overseas at present but I can send you some photos that will make it clearer if required. It is an ideal modification which has already been done by other builders in the UK namely Peter Kemper with his first Europa so it may well be already an authorised modification with the LAA. It looks good and  is streamlined with the "Classic Cowl" and is very effective with cooling, too effective at times. Rotax prefer higher temps.

Better that way than the other. 



All the best.



Regards,

Tim

Tim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street,

Fendalton,

Christchurch, 8052

New Zealand



ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz



Mob +64 210640221

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 13/05/2016, at 11:54 PM, GBWFH2010 <gaxuk2001(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 As part of my investigations into the cause of very high oil temps on my Classic I am considering moving the oil cooler to a dedicated cowling inlet. Have any other Classic owners done this and, if so, would you be willing to let me have some details on how you achieved this?

 

 Also, the dreaded question. Would I have to classify this as a mod as far as the LAA were concerned?

 

 Finally I show below the text of my post on the Rotax forum. If anyone has any ideas I would be delighted to hear them!

 

 Aircraft:  Europa Classic Tri Gear

 Engine :  Rotax 912 UL (80HP) TT 440 hours

 Propeller:  Airmaster 

 

 I am having a major problem with excessive oil temperature. The Europa Classic is not brilliant when it comes to cooling due to the design ‘feature’ of having the oil cooler mounted behind the left hand coolant radiator and I have carried out all the recommended ‘mods’ suggested by other Europa owners to improve cooling. These have helped and but now the weather is getting warmer (21 degrees!) I have discovered things have taken a turn for the worse.

 

 My last three flights have been a nightmare due to soaring oil temperature. For example, yesterday I started my take off roll with an oil temp of 80C and had to reduce power and level off after less than two minutes (1300 ft) with the oil temp approaching 130C and CHT of 120C. Cruising at that level quickly drops the CHT to 110C but the oil takes an age to fall below 120C. If I can get the aircraft into the cruise above 2500ft the temps stabilise at just below 110C Oil and 100C CHT, the problem is I just can’t get that high at the moment.

 

 I have not changed anything on the aircraft so I am assuming it must be an engine problem.  The oil level is always correct and I use Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 and Rotax filters. The oil has done less than 20 hours and I use MOGAS with no ethanol. Oil pressure is OK and is about 2.8 – 3 Bar at a normal cruise.   

 

 Does anyone have any ideas what could possibly be causing this problem? I really hope so as I am not going anywhere as things stand!

 

 Gordon Grant

 Europa Classic G-BWFH

 

 --------

 Gordon Grant

 

 G-BWFH

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456186#456186

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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phillik747

Joined: 04 Apr 2012
Posts: 73
Location: Birminham, AL USA

Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 5:26 am Post subject: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

My Uncle has been working on this issue for years with different mods.  This is the current setup and works very well in the heat of Southern California. I can forward you his email if you are interested. 

Image:

 http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=99649&g2_serialNumber=3

_________________
Kyle
Europa Tri-gear (under construction)

GBWFH2010

Joined: 31 Jul 2011
Posts: 38

Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 5:42 am Post subject: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

Dave and Tim,



Thank you very much for your replies which both had really useful information. If you could send me some pictures of your installations it would be greatly appreciated. 



If you would prefer to send any further information by email my address is:



gaxuk2001(at)gmail.com



Kind regards



Gordon

_________________
Gordon Grant

G-BWFH

Richard Lamprey

Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 95
Location: Kenya

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 3:27 am Post subject: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

Hello Gordon,



I have the oil cooler beneath the spinner in my Kenya Europa, works very well, have never had an oil temp over 120 degrees, despite operating in 30 C temperatures.  Occasionally in the climb its good to level out a bit to keep it beneath this.  



I try to attach picture here, sorry cant do something more detailed, I am away from the aircraft just now (will be back to it in 2 weeks time).



Also, pictures don't attach easily on this site.



I think other cooler designs are much like this.



Best

Richard

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GBWFH2010

Joined: 31 Jul 2011
Posts: 38

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 3:43 am Post subject: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

Richard,



Thanks for the picture. I agree my temps are ridiculous so hopefully moving the oil cooler will make a big difference.



Regards



Gordon

_________________
Gordon Grant

G-BWFH

Richard Lamprey

Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 95
Location: Kenya

Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 4:25 am Post subject: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

Gordon,



Something to add...  Repositioning the oil cooler means that now you have the whole thing anchored to the lower cowling.  This makes lowering the lower cowling, or taking it off completely, more complicated.  The cooler now has to be exactly repositioned to enable the retaining screws from the outside to engage with the anchor nuts on the cooler..  All of this is a real nuisance for oil changes.  



Maybe others have better solutions.



I now have an inspection panel directly beneath the oil reservoir to drain the oil, without dropping the lower cowling.  It means that a certain amount of oil in the cooler stays in oil changes, but this prevents opening the system with the dreaded possibility of air entry into the system.  (I read somewhere in a Rotax bulletin that leaving some residual oil in the cooler is OK in oil changes).  I change oil every 30 hours.



So, one thing leads to another, but oil cooling is not a problem.



Best

Richard

Classic number 168, Monowheel, Rotax 912 UL, Warpdrive fixed, 600 hours, reg 5Y-LRY

Scudrunner

Joined: 31 Aug 2012
Posts: 26

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 2:27 am Post subject: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

A couple of left field ideas:



Is the engine running too lean? Lean engines run hotter right? 



I have a mono classic & UL and don't get those temps and I need to partially blank the oil cooler in the winter. 2 summers ago I went through the LAA new VP prop schedule which if I remember correctly calls for a 5 minute WOT climb and temps were OK.



Air lock in either the water or oil cooler circuits? (I remember needing to bleed the water cooling rad through a small hole in the inlet/outlet pipe.



Agree that once temps get high it takes longer for the oil to cool than the water.



I agree with the principal of checking the simple stuff 1st. The alternatives tend to be expensive and time consuming!



Hope that helps?

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:37 pm Post subject: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

Richard,

Leaving oil in the cooler is fine.  With the tank above the oil cooler, you 

will sometimes get a bit of air in the feed line if you leave the oil drain 

for a considerable period of time.  Otherwise, I've not had a problem with 

the low oil coolers in either the Classic or XS.  I drain the tank, and 

refill very quickly, then change the oil filter.



I am a fan of lowering the oil cooler to the front below the spinner on the 

Classic and then glassing in a small bracket to hold the cooler.  Creighton 

Smith and others have used long pip pins to hold the oil cooler in place for 

quick lower cowl removal.  Alas, there is no quick cowl removal with the 

Classic radiators, but we try by using nut plates and planning so it is 

typically two pins, and four bolts and the lower cowl is off.



I open up the classic exit about two more inches on each side for hot 

weather operations.  At cruise, this drives both the oil temp and head temps 

below 200 F at low altitude and 160 at high altitude.  But climb is just 

right at about 230 with an 80 HP engine.  So to be honest with you all, it 

would help to install a small cowl flap to regulate the cruise temps and 

keep them about 180-200 F.



Best Regards,

Bud Yerly



--

Richard Lamprey

Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 95
Location: Kenya

Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 11:36 pm Post subject: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

Thanks Bud, this is all good to know.  

Not sure if anyone else has taken the short-cut of the inspection panel beneath the oil reservoir.  Take it off, drain the oil, refill, lockwire, have a look around inside beneath the engine, panel back on, and you are good to go.  Saves a lot of time.



Best, Richard, Kenya Europa

rogersheridan(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 10:53 am Post subject: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

Hi Richard,



Have you considered using a vacuum oil extractor? - works well on boat engines.

No mods, cowling removal or wire locking required.



Cheers,



Roger

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 18 May 2016, at 08:36, Richard Lamprey <lamprey.richard(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Thanks Bud, this is all good to know.  

 Not sure if anyone else has taken the short-cut of the inspection panel beneath the oil reservoir.  Take it off, drain the oil, refill, lockwire, have a look around inside beneath the engine, panel back on, and you are good to go.  Saves a lot of time.

 

 Best, Richard, Kenya Europa

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456345#456345

Richard Lamprey

Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 95
Location: Kenya

Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

Roger, many thanks, I had no idea such a gadget existed!  But then we are a bit third world here.  Will look online but if you have any leads for a suitable one, I would much appreciate it.



Best

Richard

Kenya

rogersheridan(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 20, 2016 4:45 am Post subject: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

No shortage of choice:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-Manual-Vacuum-Fluid-Extractor/dp/B000RA16CO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1463748056&sr=8-3&keywords=vacuum+oil+extractor



 	  Quote: 	
		  On 20 May 2016, at 07:42, Richard Lamprey <lamprey.richard(at)gmail.com (lamprey.richard(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

--> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard Lamprey" <lamprey.richard(at)gmail.com (lamprey.richard(at)gmail.com)>Roger, many thanks, I had no idea such a gadget existed!  But then we are a bit third world here.  Will look online but if you have any leads for a suitable one, I would much appreciate it.BestRichardKenyaRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=456383#456383

Richard Lamprey

Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 95
Location: Kenya

Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

Roger,

Thanks, much appreciated.

Best

Richard, Kenya

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 388
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:57 am Post subject: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

Hi Gordon. I hope I'm not too late with this suggestion. It is "cheap and cheerful" as the saying goes and furthermore it works! The oil temperature came down by 20C, without moving anything or cutting holes.



I have a Classic which was converted to a tri-gear and then later had the 80hp engine replaced with the ULS 100hp. Immediately I experienced the same cooling problems as you describe, but I didn't want to rush into moving the oil cooler nor to start cutting holes in the lower cowling, in case such experimenting didn't work.



At first I made a little scoop which sat above the left radiator and ducted air coming through the gap between the top of the radiator and the opening in the cowling, intending to increase cold air flow down into the gap between the radiator and the oil cooler. This little arrangement was a failure, but got me thinking harder.



The real problem turns out to be that after air has passed through the relatively widely spaced cooling fins in the radiator, it then struggles to pass through the tightly spaced cooling fins of the oil cooler. So it takes the easier route and spills around the sides of the oil cooler. The answer for me was to seal the 20ish mm gap between radiator and cooler, giving the air no choice but to pass through the cooler.



Off to Halfords I went and bought a car exhaust repair bandage, which is a strip of aluminium tape about 50 or 60 mm wide and sticky on one side. I then folded it over lengthwise to make the tape narrower but still the same length, with the sticky side outwards. This narrower strip of tape was slightly wider than the gap and I easily used it to wrap all around the gap between radiator and cooler, sticking to the cooler and touching the fins of the radiator.



Job done! I live and fly in Aberdeenshire where it's a miracle if we ever see an OAT above 20C, so I won't claim that my fix is the answer to your prayers. But I'd be surprised if my solution doesn't drop your oil temperature noticeably.

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 388
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

Quoting Dave Watts above "I mounted the cooler to the engine, centrally below the spinner arc".



Dave, I'm curious to know for how many flying hours your oil cooler has been mounted to the engine and also whether you found it necessary to mount it to some kind of 'rubber' suspension blocks to minimise the risk of engine vibrations causing the oil cooler core to crack.



If I ever have to move south into warmer weather, possibly following a Scottish referendum vote in favour of full independence, then my aluminium sticky tape solution described above might not give enough oil cooling.



Perhaps I'd use your solution which makes removing the bottom cowling so much easier.

dg.watts(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:49 am Post subject: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

Jonathan,



I had done 450 hours with the original installation with the oil cooler behind  the water radiator.

I have now done 1780 hours with the new installation, the last 1330 hours with the 912S fitted.



I used small Lord rubber mounts to isolate the cooler from the engine.



Dave Watts

G-BXDY Classic Monowheel 2232 hours



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 30 Jun 2016, at 14:32, jonathanmilbank <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

 

 

 

 Quoting Dave Watts above "I mounted the cooler to the engine, centrally below the spinner arc".

 

 Dave, I'm curious to know for how many flying hours your oil cooler has been mounted to the engine and also whether you found it necessary to mount it to some kind of 'rubber' suspension blocks to minimise the risk of engine vibrations causing the oil cooler core to crack.

 

 If I ever have to move south into warmer weather, possibly following a Scottish referendum vote in favour of full independence, then my aluminium sticky tape solution described above might not give enough oil cooling.

 

 Perhaps I'd use your solution which makes removing the bottom cowling so much easier.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457557#457557

GBWFH2010

Joined: 31 Jul 2011
Posts: 38

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:31 am Post subject: Re: Reposition oil cooler on Classic Trigear

Jonathan thank you for taking the trouble to post your suggestion. I have already sealed the gap between the radiators and it made a very small difference, but not enough to really help. At OAT below 20C the problem is manageable but in our 'summer' it becomes a real pain. 



Dave Watts has been really helpful and supplied me with pictures of his installation. I am sure he will not mind if I share these with you and I will send them to you via email. I am in the process of trying to get a mod submitted and approved based on Dave's mod. I will let you know how I get on.



Regards



Gordon

_________________
Gordon Grant

G-BWFH

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