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AZFlyer

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Prescott, AZ

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:55 pm Post subject: Wing Building

At the risk of interrupting the enlightning Corvair engine discussion, I'd like to ask for input on building of the XL wings.



I have currently riveted the right wing skeleton together, pilot drilled and clecoed the top skin, turned the wing over and drilled bottom and nose skin to A5 and A4 respectively, clecoed the bottom rear and nose skin.



My plan, with the ZAC assembly pictures and discription a little thin here, was to remove all bottom clecos, debur and Zinc C the bottom skins, rivet nose ribs on, rivet bottom and nose skin on, then turn wing over to install tank and finish up on top.(ie., wing tip, locker, wiring, etc.)



The assembly pics on the CD and ZAC site sort of jump around on different stages here.  Am I doing this in correct order, or did I miss something along the way?



Thanks in advance...

_________________
Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com
601 XL-B, 3300, Dynon

Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: Wing Building

Hi Mike,



I think you are on the right track.



I ran into serious problems after riveting the nose skin on the 

bottom and then discovering I didn't position it correctly to make 

the right position on the main spar angle on the top.  I would 

suggest you check this positioning carefully.



Also, I didn't follow the suggestion in the photo guide to install 

temporary solid rivets to keep the alignment between the top skin and 

main spar.  Instead, I went ahead and drilled the top skin and 

clecoed it to the spar before turning over and doing the 

bottom.  Whichever method you use, make sure the position of the top 

rear skin is fixed to the main spar to keep the rear ribs in the 

proper (perpendicular) angle to the spar before fixing the skins on 

the bottom.



Other than that, I think you have it going just fine.



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive

At 01:55 PM 7/7/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



At the risk of interrupting the enlightning Corvair engine 

discussion, I'd like to ask for input on building of the XL wings.



I have currently riveted the right wing skeleton together, pilot 

drilled and clecoed the top skin, turned the wing over and drilled 

bottom and nose skin to A5 and A4 respectively, clecoed the bottom 

rear and nose skin.



My plan, with the ZAC assembly pictures and discription a little 

thin here, was to remove all bottom clecos, debur and Zinc C the 

bottom skins, rivet nose ribs on, rivet bottom and nose skin on, 

then turn wing over to install tank and finish up on top.(ie., wing 

tip, locker, wiring, etc.)



The assembly pics on the CD and ZAC site sort of jump around on 

different stages here.  Am I doing this in correct order, or did I 

miss something along the way?



Thanks in advance...



--------

Mike Miller (at) millrml(at)aol.com

601 XL, 3300



Remember,  &quot;the second mouse gets the cheese&quot;!





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=45559#45559




	


---------------------------------------------

Paul Mulwitz

32013 NE Dial Road

Camas, WA 98607

---------------------------------------------

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject: Wing Building

Mike,  It sounds like you have the procedure down right.  Remember to leave the rivets out where the flap hinge goes.  Also leave the clecoes in the nose skin and the first nose rib outboard of the fuel tank.  That is in case you have to "jiggle" the nose rib to get the fuel tank in place, according to ZAC.

 

 Assuming that  confession is good for the soul (and an admonition to others), I confess:  I moved those clecoes inside.  I only realized I had forgotten about them after everything was riveted (except those pesky inside clecoes).  So I cut an "inspection" hole in the bottom of the nose skin, large enough to get my hand in and retrieve the clecoes.  Build and learn!

 

 Jay in Dallas, working on XL fuselage

 Do not archive

601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject: Wing Building

I'd say yes. That's exactly what I did and it seemed to work fine. My wings 

are now finished on the bottom  with tanks and lockers installed, but tops 

still clecoed for access for wiring etc.



    Robin in AR, 601XL w/Wynne-Vair 2900



---

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: Wing Building

I rivetted the nose ribs (completed the skeleton) before drilling and 

clecoing any of the skins. I don't see a problem with doing it in the order 

you described. You will find it easier to cut and finish access hatches 

before the skin is rivetted to the skeleton. Also (probably obvious) make 

sure you have all conduit, wiring, and plumbing done to your satisfaction 

before riveting the nose and top rear skin. The aileron bellcrank brakets 

should be rivetted to rear rib 7 before rivetting any skins, and the aileron 

pushrod should be finished before rivetting the top rear skin. Rigging 

aileron cables can be done via the bellcrank access hatch later when the 

wings are mated to the fuselage.



Anybody see a problem with any of this?



Ed Moody II

Rayne, LA

601XL / wings



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 At the risk of interrupting the enlightning Corvair engine discussion, I'd 

 like to ask for input on building of the XL wings.



 I have currently riveted the right wing skeleton together, pilot drilled 

 and clecoed the top skin, turned the wing over and drilled bottom and nose 

 skin to A5 and A4 respectively, clecoed the bottom rear and nose skin.



 My plan, with the ZAC assembly pictures and discription a little thin 

 here, was to remove all bottom clecos, debur and Zinc C the bottom skins, 

 rivet nose ribs on, rivet bottom and nose skin on, then turn wing over to 

 install tank and finish up on top.(ie., wing tip, locker, wiring, etc.)



 The assembly pics on the CD and ZAC site sort of jump around on different 

 stages here.  Am I doing this in correct order, or did I miss something 

 along the way?



 Thanks in advance...



 --------

 Mike Miller (at) millrml(at)aol.com

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: Wing Building

Personally, I would rig the bellcrank cables before colsing the wing.  It is probably possible to to the cable swaging through the access panel, but I felt that it would be a real tight squeeze and a real hassle.

 

 Jay in Dallas

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:04 pm Post subject: Wing Building

Hi Ed,



Just one little detail that might be improved.  The access hatch 

cover for the fuel tank finger strainer overlaps both nose ribs, so 

it might be easier to do that hatch after riveting the bottom nose skin.



Paul

XL Fuselage

 	  Quote: 	
		  I rivetted the nose ribs (completed the skeleton) before drilling 

and clecoing any of the skins. I don't see a problem with doing it 

in the order you described. You will find it easier to cut and 

finish access hatches before the skin is rivetted to the skeleton. 

Also (probably obvious) make sure you have all conduit, wiring, and 

plumbing done to your satisfaction before riveting the nose and top 

rear skin. The aileron bellcrank brakets should be rivetted to rear 

rib 7 before rivetting any skins, and the aileron pushrod should be 

finished before rivetting the top rear skin. Rigging aileron cables 

can be done via the bellcrank access hatch later when the wings are 

mated to the fuselage.



Anybody see a problem with any of this?



Ed Moody II

Rayne, LA

601XL / wings


	


---

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:33 am Post subject: Wing Building

I may be wrong but as best I can tell, the swagging  can take place outside the wing, then thread the cables through the lightening  holes etc.

  

 Any reason that won't work?

  

 Ed

 [quote]   ---

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:29 am Post subject: Wing Building

Ed, The cables must be threaded through the holes in the bellcrank, with a thimble.  It is not as easy as it sounds! If this is done outside the wing, the bellcrank must be removed from its bracket.  I suppose it would be easier to reinstall the bellcrank than to try to do the swaging inside the wing, which means reattaching the control rod to the aileron, also through the access hole. While it is possible, I just found it much easier to do with the wing open.

 

 Jay in Dallas

gboothe(at)calply.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:52 am Post subject: Wing Building

Ed / Jay,  

   

If you’re like me, when you’re in wing building mode you don’t want to think about swaging cables, hooking up lights, etc. You want to see that wing get built! Just thread a length of 1/8” braided nylon rope thru the holes and tie it off to the bell crank. It will easy to attach the swaged end to the rope and pull thru at a later time and life will be good.  

   

Of course, it you wish to do the connects now, have at it…  

   

Gary Boothe  

Cool, CA  

601 HDSTD, WW Conversion  

Tail done, working on wings....  

   

   

Ed, The cables must be threaded through the holes in the bellcrank, with a thimble.  It is not as easy as it sounds! If this is done outside the wing, the bellcrank must be removed from its bracket.  I suppose it would be easier to reinstall the bellcrank than to try to do the swaging inside the wing, which means reattaching the control rod to the aileron, also through the access hole. While it is possible, I just found it much easier to do with the wing open.

 

 Jay in Dallas

Michael Valentine

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 108

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:03 am Post subject: Wing Building

On 7/8/06, Jaybannist(at)cs.com <Jaybannist(at)cs.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Ed, The cables must be threaded through the holes in the bellcrank, with a

 thimble.


	


horsecshoe-type connector (for lack of a proper word) and the

connector actually goes through the bellcrank.  1) Is that correct,

and 2) Does that make it easier to rig the cables later through the

access hole?



Michael



do not archive

randy(at)shadycreekoutlaw
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:04 am Post subject: Wing Building

The thimble goes inside the "loop" that the cable makes.  There is an item, 

I think you are referring to as a "horseshoe type connector" that is called 

a cable shackle that actually gets bolted to the aileron bellcrank that the 

cable and thimble are "looped" through...



Randy

Do Not Archive

---

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:17 am Post subject: Wing Building

Michael - IMHO, no.  Try it once.  The cable is stiff and "springy." the cable must be snug to the thimble and the Nicopress must be snug to the thimble.  All this must be held firmly, assuring the proper cable end extension, while crimping the Nicopress. It definitely requires two hands, if not three, and as much room as possible, for the Nicopress tool, elbows, etc.

 

 Jay in Dallas

Michael Valentine

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 108

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:35 am Post subject: Wing Building

Thanks Randy and Jay -



I am getting close to closing up my first wing and, like Gary, I don't

really want to do this at the moment.  Perhaps a couple more questions

will help me understand more of what is at stake:



1) Can't you make the loop in the cable outside of the wing at any

time, any place?

If so, then you can just feed the cable into the closed wing with a

1x2 or something.



2) Can't you then slide the pre-made loop into the cable shackle and

just bolt the shackle to the bellcrank through the access hole?

Then the only thing you are actually doing through the access hole is

tightening the shackle bolts.



Am I still missing something?  **And, why doesn't Zenith have any

drawings/guides/instructions on these steps?**



Thanks, Michael



do not archive



On 7/8/06, Randy Bryant <randy(at)shadycreekoutlaws.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 The thimble goes inside the "loop" that the cable makes.  There is an item,

 I think you are referring to as a "horseshoe type connector" that is called

 a cable shackle that actually gets bolted to the aileron bellcrank that the

 cable and thimble are "looped" through...



 Randy

 Do Not Archive

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: Wing Building

Randy, I don't think the gap in the shackle will open enough to get the cable loop & thimble in after they are swaged.  As I remember, the loop & thimble had to be formed on the shackle while crimping the Nicopress sleeve.  And, yes, this could be done after the wing is closed, the cable threaded thru the lightening holes and the shackels bolted to the bellcrank. This is just vastly easier to do with the wing open, and in fact, easier with the bellcrank out of the wing.

 

 Jay in Dallas

randy(at)shadycreekoutlaw
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:41 pm Post subject: Wing Building

Yeah, I don't think it will either, I was just  responding to the message that left out the shackle...  What I was reading,  was to attach the cable/thimble directly to the bellcrank...  I was just  giving a basic order of bellcrank, shackle, then the cable actually attaches to  the shackle, not directly to the bellcrank...

  

 Thanks!

 

Randy

  

 [quote]   ---

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: Wing Building

The cables are not threaded through the holes in the bellcrank. The cables attach to the bellcrank by means of cable shackles. If I recall correctly, the cable shackle can be inserted through the cable loop and thimble after it's swaged although it is easier to thread the cable through before swaging.



I  installed the thimble and shackle then threaded the cable through the sleeve and shackle, pulled it tight and then clamped it with a small set of vice grips to hold it tight while I made the first crimp in the sleeve. Then just before I installed the wings, I pulled the swaged ends of the cables out into the wings with pieces of rope that I had threaded through the wings with the help of a broom handle and tape.



After I had the wings attached and the outer ends of the cables attached to the bellcranks, I cut the cables to length and swaged the inboard ends behind the seats.

 -------------- Original message ----------------------

 	  Quote: 	
		   Ed, The cables must be threaded through the holes in the bellcrank, with a 

 thimble.  It is not as easy as it sounds! If this is done outside the wing, the 

 bellcrank must be removed from its bracket.  I suppose it would be easier to 

 reinstall the bellcrank than to try to do the swaging inside the wing, which 

 means reattaching the control rod to the aileron, also through the access hole. 

 While it is possible, I just found it much easier to do with the wing open.

 

 Jay in Dallas 


	




--

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL, 

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

gboothe(at)calply.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:11 pm Post subject: Wing Building

Brian is right on track. The correct part would be AS & S part No. MS20667.

It's a swaged on fork end that passes over the bell crank and merely gets an

AN Bolt with a hole for a cotter pin thru a castle nut, ie:  AN3-8. 



The best, cheapest, correct way to cut aircraft cable is with a cold chisel.

That's hard to do when the cable is in place. You can do what you want, but

it seems easiest to me to run the rope thru the wing, close the wing up,

finish the airframe, mount the wing and tail empanage, then measure all the

cables you will need.



This way you can easily build them on your work bench or order them made to

length. BTW, the other end gets the same part, with the addition of the

correct turnbuckle - safety wired.



I am building the HDS, not the XL, and have a different aileron

configuration, but it still uses a bell crank. Nor have I looked that far

into the plans. I am merely relying on ancient knowledge from my A&P days

over 20 years ago. The input of a current A&P would be welcomed.



Gary Boothe

Cool, CA

601 HDSTD, WW Conversion

Tail done, working on wings....

The cables are not threaded through the holes in the bellcrank. The cables

attach to the bellcrank by means of cable shackles. If I recall correctly,

the cable shackle can be inserted through the cable loop and thimble after

it's swaged although it is easier to thread the cable through before

swaging.



I  installed the thimble and shackle then threaded the cable through the

sleeve and shackle, pulled it tight and then clamped it with a small set of

vice grips to hold it tight while I made the first crimp in the sleeve. Then

just before I installed the wings, I pulled the swaged ends of the cables

out into the wings with pieces of rope that I had threaded through the wings

with the help of a broom handle and tape.



After I had the wings attached and the outer ends of the cables attached to

the bellcranks, I cut the cables to length and swaged the inboard ends

behind the seats.

 -------------- Original message ----------------------

 	  Quote: 	
		   Ed, The cables must be threaded through the holes in the bellcrank, with a


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   thimble.  It is not as easy as it sounds! If this is done outside the

wing, the 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   bellcrank must be removed from its bracket.  I suppose it would be easier

to 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   reinstall the bellcrank than to try to do the swaging inside the wing,

which 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   means reattaching the control rod to the aileron, also through the access

hole. 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   While it is possible, I just found it much easier to do with the wing

open.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Jay in Dallas 


	




--

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL, 

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject: Wing Building

Actually, you don't even have to tighten the shackle bolts inside the hatch. 

Everything can be done in the daylight except bolting the bellcrank back 

into its bracket. Feed the pre-thimbled cables through the lightening holes 

as you suggested, insert the shackles, bolt them to the bellcrank under the 

wing (outside the hatch). Then the bellcrank is bolted to its bracket inside 

the hatch. I made my hatch bigger than the plans called for so it ought to 

be reasonably easy.



Ed



---

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject: Wing Building

Thanks. That's pretty much how I expect to do mine.



Ed



---

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