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Extended wing Firefly
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mikemac

Joined: 22 Apr 2016
Posts: 18

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:02 pm Post subject: Extended wing Firefly

I was speaking to Brian Melborne yesterday, and expressed my wishes as to wanting a Bush Kolb. I told him I want STOL as top priority. Rotax 447 or 503. I told him top speed is not important, but slow flying Characteristics are. I just like to boat around, low and slow. Anyhow, he said he has been flying a Firefly with extended wings, and the wing is now undercambered. He said he weighs about 205 and with him in it, he said, and I quote, 

"It stalls in the teens". I told him I am very interested in this and he sent me a picture of it from when he was at Sun n Fun. It was set up as a tricycle gear which I would not want, but he said making it a tail dragger is not a problem. I realize this would not be 103 compliant, but I would then just go sport pilot.

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victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:28 pm Post subject: Extended wing Firefly

Wow, that's cool ! 



Did he say that the "undercamber" is a new undercambered wing rib, or is it just drooped ailerons on a standard Kolb wing ?



Did they have to enlarge the tail to compensate for the increased nose-down pitching moment form the new airfoil?



Looks really interesting 



Bill Berle

www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities



--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 7/7/16, mikemac <mmacpherson(at)homesale.com> wrote:



 Subject: Extended wing Firefly

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Thursday, July 7, 2016, 1:02 PM

 

 

 "mikemac" <mmacpherson(at)homesale.com>

 

 I was speaking to Brian Melborne yesterday, and expressed my

 wishes as to wanting a Bush Kolb. I told him I want STOL as

 top priority. Rotax 447 or 503. I told him top speed is not

 important, but slow flying Characteristics are. I just like

 to boat around, low and slow. Anyhow, he said he has been

 flying a Firefly with extended wings, and the wing is now

 undercambered. He said he weighs about 205 and with him in

 it, he said, and I quote, 

 "It stalls in the teens". I told him I am very interested in

 this and he sent me a picture of it from when he was at Sun

 n Fun. It was set up as a tricycle gear which I would not

 want, but he said making it a tail dragger is not a problem.

 I realize this would not be 103 compliant, but I would then

 just go sport pilot.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457867#457867

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/untitled_765.png

 

 

 

 

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 Dralle, List Admin.

mikemac

Joined: 22 Apr 2016
Posts: 18

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Extended wing Firefly

I am pretty sure he said undercambered wing. However I would suggest talking with him, and from your other posts I know you have more design knowledge than me. So, if you do talk with him, it would be great to post what you found out in this thread.

I really lit up when Brian said with his weight it would stall in the teens. To me, that is exactly what I want for slower landing, takeoffs etc. etc. I am not a showboat pilot, just a pilot who like to boat around. Having the excellent history of the Kolb, plus STOL, and now a very low stall speed has me jazzed.

victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:28 pm Post subject: Extended wing Firefly

Remember that when you are doing STOL work, especially really slow STOL, having full positive control over the airplane at those low speeds is even MORE important than just the minimum speed. It's like having a hot rod car that goes really fast but you can't keep it going in a straight line... you won't be able to enjoy it. When you get down in the 25 MPH and below range, the air is very soft and you do not have much "Grab" on the air. Your controls can flop around back and forth but they don't make the airplane do whatever you asked it to do. But the wind, and the turbulence,and the gusts are still there at full strength.



There are solutions and tricks that you can use to keep control of the plane slower and slower, spoilers for roll control, VG's on the wings and tail, etc. But there are many situations where the airplane can go slower than you can control it, and you're playing with rattlesnakes at that point.



Bill Berle

www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities



--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 7/7/16, mikemac <mmacpherson(at)homesale.com> wrote:



 Subject: Re: Extended wing Firefly

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Thursday, July 7, 2016, 1:45 PM

 

 

 "mikemac" <mmacpherson(at)homesale.com>

 

 I am pretty sure he said undercambered wing. However I would

 suggest talking with him, and from your other posts I know

 you have more design knowledge than me. So, if you do talk

 with him, it would be great to post what you found out in

 this thread.

 I really lit up when Brian said with his weight it would

 stall in the teens. To me, that is exactly what I want for

 slower landing, takeoffs etc. etc. I am not a showboat

 pilot, just a pilot who like to boat around. Having the

 excellent history of the Kolb, plus STOL, and now a very low

 stall speed has me jazzed.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457874#457874

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Forum -

    - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

 MATRONICS LIST WIKI -

 List Contribution Web Site -

               -Matt

 Dralle, List Admin.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:35 pm Post subject: Extended wing Firefly

The straight bottom standard Kolb wing has camber as soon as it loaded in

flight because the fabric stretches.  How much it stretches has a lot to do

with how much you shrink the fabric.



Bryan Melborn 's new wing rib is cambered.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama



--

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:46 pm Post subject: Extended wing Firefly

 	  Quote: 	
		  From personal experience, the US and original FS are extremely controllable at speeds down to 25 mph measured with a Winter venturi activated ASI.  That is why Homer Kolb designed oversized barn door full span ailerons and empennage capable of control at extra slow airspeed.


	


john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama



--

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:02 pm Post subject: Extended wing Firefly

Wow, that's  interesting, a new wing design. Interested to see if he enlarged the tail, or whether it was necessary or not.



Bill Berle

www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities



--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 7/7/16, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote:



 Subject: RE: Re: Extended wing Firefly

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Thursday, July 7, 2016, 3:35 PM

 

 

 "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>

 

 The straight bottom standard Kolb wing has camber as soon as

 it loaded in

 flight because the fabric stretches.  How much it

 stretches has a lot to do

 with how much you shrink the fabric.

 

 Bryan Melborn 's new wing rib is cambered.

 

 john h

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

 

 --

pc.king(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:53 pm Post subject: Extended wing Firefly

Kolb has a new motorglider.

---

Mcabbage

Joined: 08 Sep 2013
Posts: 41
Location: MA.

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Extended wing Firefly

Very interesting, thanks for sharing Mike!

_________________
2007 Firestar 2 503 N203SD
Moster 185 Flattop PPG/Sky K2 Paraglider
Trike Buggy Soaring Trike & Northwing Stratus XP

Mcabbage

Joined: 08 Sep 2013
Posts: 41
Location: MA.

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Extended wing Firefly

Hey Mike

Have you sold your Fresh Breeze trike yet?  just curious its a beauty.

Mike

_________________
2007 Firestar 2 503 N203SD
Moster 185 Flattop PPG/Sky K2 Paraglider
Trike Buggy Soaring Trike & Northwing Stratus XP

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Extended wing Firefly

I have been following this thread with great interest, since I now have the wings, tail and tail boom for an original Firestar, which will be getting attached to a Firefly cage. The end game is to make it Part 103 legal, which also effectively makes it an extended wing Firefly.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:00 am Post subject: Extended wing Firefly

I think you can do it without too many problems.  What engine are you considering?



                                                          Bill Sullivan

                                                          Windsor Locks, Ct.

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 7/14/16, Richard Pike <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> wrote:



 

 

 I have been following this thread with great interest, since

 I now have the wings, tail and tail boom for an original

 Firestar, which will be getting attached to a Firefly cage.

 The end game is to make it Part 103 legal, which also

 effectively makes it an extended wing Firefly.



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Forum -

    - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

 MATRONICS LIST WIKI -

 List Contribution Web Site -

               -Matt

 Dralle, List Admin.

Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:03 pm Post subject: Extended wing Firefly

I have three or 4 half vw engines....One of them might fit the bill?  

Around 84 lbs each..though the Mosler is likely more...Herb



On 07/14/2016 12:59 PM, william sullivan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



    I think you can do it without too many problems.  What engine are you considering?



                                                            Bill Sullivan

                                                            Windsor Locks, Ct.

 --------------------------------------------

 On Thu, 7/14/16, Richard Pike <thegreybaron(at)charter.net> wrote:



   

   

   I have been following this thread with great interest, since

   I now have the wings, tail and tail boom for an original

   Firestar, which will be getting attached to a Firefly cage.

   The end game is to make it Part 103 legal, which also

   effectively makes it an extended wing Firefly.



   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   Forum -

      - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

   MATRONICS LIST WIKI -

   List Contribution Web Site -

                 -Matt

   Dralle, List Admin.

   

   

   




	


-- 

"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny."



Aristotle

Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:12 pm Post subject: Extended wing Firefly

I lost the picture of Bryan and the Flystar. anyone...



  I have the wings ,boom and tail feathers too!!  Herb



On 07/14/2016 12:05 PM, Richard Pike wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I have been following this thread with great interest, since I now have the wings, tail and tail boom for an original Firestar, which will be getting attached to a Firefly cage. The end game is to make it Part 103 legal, which also effectively makes it an extended wing Firefly.



 --------

 Richard Pike

 Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 Kingsport, TN 3TN0



 Would you consider yourself to be a good person?

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=458180#458180






	


-- 

"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny."



Aristotle

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Extended wing Firefly

 	  williamtsullivan(at)att.n wrote: 	
		  I think you can do it without too many problems.  What engine are you considering?

Bill Sullivan

Windsor Locks, Ct.

	




It came with a 447. Will get the airframe all done and check the weight, and then we'll know if the 447 will be too heavy or not.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

mikemac

Joined: 22 Apr 2016
Posts: 18

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Extended wing Firefly

 	  Mcabbage wrote: 	
		  Hey Mike

Have you sold your Fresh Breeze trike yet?  just curious its a beauty.

Mike 	




Yes, Sold it to a guy in Oklahoma.

radiobluebook(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:56 pm Post subject: Extended wing Firefly

This coming weekend, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, come on out to the David City airport David City, Nebraska (93Y)

Airplane rides Friday evening and all day Saturday in a Tri-Pacer

  

Pizza Friday evening

 Hamburgers and Hotdog BBQ Saturday Noon  

Watermelon feed Saturday evening  

Staged manhunt Saturday

  

 Camping available on the North West corner of the field  

100LL and 87 car gas available  

  

Any and all forms of aircraft welcome

mikemac

Joined: 22 Apr 2016
Posts: 18

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Extended wing Firefly

Here are some pics of the Tri-Fly. If anyone want pics, please email me at mmacpherson(at)homesale.com  I am having problems trying to load the ones that Kolb sent me.

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Under Camber

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Last edited by mikemac on Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:53 am; edited 3 times in total

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:38 am Post subject: Extended wing Firefly

oops only one of them came through. Is this one yours? I looked on the website and could not find any info about this one. I find it tempting and possibly the perfect vehicle to hunt Coyotes with. 



Larry

_________________
do not archive

mikemac

Joined: 22 Apr 2016
Posts: 18

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:43 am Post subject: Re: Extended wing Firefly

I tried to load two more pics but when they come through the system rotates them for some reason.

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