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Stressmerchant
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
Posts: 22
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 Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:49 pm Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies
Mike
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richard.goode(at)russiana
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:08 am Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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One doesn't need oxygen for a short trip beyond 13,000 feet – pilots in the First World War were patrolling at 20,000 feet!
To revert to Yaks, a standard 52 is running out of breath at 13,000 feet, but the real reason is that the Russians don't extend the manuals for an aircraft without oxygen beyond 4000 m. However, nothing to do with the engine capability – with a light 18 T; 400 hp; MT prop I was once still climbing (albeit very slowly) at 18,000 feet.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I’m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779 132 160.
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Beresford
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 1:19 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude
Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies
Mike
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:28 am Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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I always asked myself if they were really up that high in WW I.
Difficult to verify of course. But with those engines?
As you state it Richard, with an M14PF, and an MT prop, you climb very slowly at 18000 feet.
So how did they do it, the aces in WW I?
Just wondering,
Jan
From: <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Richard Goode <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Thursday 18 August 2016 at 11:07
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
One doesn't need oxygen for a short trip beyond 13,000 feet – pilots in the First World War were patrolling at 20,000 feet!
To revert to Yaks, a standard 52 is running out of breath at 13,000 feet, but the real reason is that the Russians don't extend the manuals for an aircraft without oxygen beyond 4000 m. However, nothing to do with the engine capability – with a light 18 T; 400 hp; MT prop I was once still climbing (albeit very slowly) at 18,000 feet.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I’m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779 132 160.
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Mike Beresford
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 1:19 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude
Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies
Mike
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
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Etienne Verhellen
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:54 am Post subject: Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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Went to FL 130* over the Alps with 'janie' and my wife once ...
For about one hour ... no problem ... just a little bit of ice on the wings climbing through a small cloud layer ...
Had to go to FL 150* on my way to Portugal from Belgium ... engine kept running nicely and 'janie' was still climbing ... 👌😎
https://flic.kr/y/2sP63zU
https://flic.kr/s/aHskAYjMcs
* 13,000 feet and 15,000 feet respectively, Transition Altitudes (!)
lower in Europe than the usual 18,000 feet in the US of A.
Last Sunday in sunny Belgium ... 😎
https://flic.kr/p/L8T5WJ
https://flic.kr/p/L8T6y5
https://flic.kr/p/L51EXz
https://flic.kr/p/L8T5Ly
https://flic.kr/p/L8T64Y
https://flic.kr/p/L8T6gw
https://flic.kr/p/LbKoEX
https://flic.kr/p/L8T6qQ
https://flic.kr/p/KKaj1E
http://youtu.be/S2j84Gj5nt8
Cheers,
Etienne.
http://www.airrace.pro/images/airrace/pilot-bios/bio-etienne-verhellen.jpg
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_________________
Yak-50 Display Pilot - Airshows - Яковлев Як-50
Yak-52 training anywhere - FI(A) Aerobatic Instructor - Specialised Yak-52.
https://www.yakoteam.com/
https://www.yakovlevs.com/the-team/pilots-and-crew/ |
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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:10 am Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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Yes, FL130 with the 52 is no problem. But how on earth did they manage to
fly even higher with those planes of WW I ?
On 18/08/16 11:54, "Etienne Verhellen"
<owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of janie(at)yak52.fr> wrote:
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picko
Joined: 20 Nov 2013
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:00 am Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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Very low stall speed
Sent from Alspadair
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wdjester(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:18 pm Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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I have been to 14,500 feet in my 52TD Termikas conversion. Sluggish on the controls that high. Or maybe I was suffering from hypoxia and I was the one sluggish! It was neat when a regional jet passed me 500 feet below. 
On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Mike Beresford <mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk (mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk)> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies
Mike
|
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jblake207(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:01 pm Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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I have been to 14,500 feet in my 52TD Termikas conversion. Sluggish on the controls that high. Or maybe I was suffering from hypoxia and I was the one sluggish! It was neat when a regional jet passed me 500 feet below.
On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Mike Beresford <mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk (mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk)> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies
Mike
|
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:26 pm Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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So … if it takes a long time to get higher than 14500 feet with a Yak or a CJ, how did the aces in WW I do it with their albatrosses, sopwiths, nieuports and the like, up to 20000 feet or 6 kilometers?
From: <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Jon Blake <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 00:00
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude
Well, I've had my stock, 285HP CJ to 14,501 feet and she was willing to go even higher, but I didn't want to embarrass the YAK52 I was flying wing on... JB
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Dave Jester <wdjester(at)cox.net (wdjester(at)cox.net)> wrote:
I have been to 14,500 feet in my 52TD Termikas conversion. Sluggish on the controls that high. Or maybe I was suffering from hypoxia and I was the one sluggish! It was neat when a regional jet passed me 500 feet below.
On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Mike Beresford <mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk (mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk)> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies
Mike
|
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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Richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:45 pm Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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They definitely did! I suspect because the aircraft were so incredibly light.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: 19 August 2016 06:25
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude
So … if it takes a long time to get higher than 14500 feet with a Yak or a CJ, how did the aces in WW I do it with their albatrosses, sopwiths, nieuports and the like, up to 20000 feet or 6 kilometers?
From: <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Jon Blake <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 00:00
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude
Well, I've had my stock, 285HP CJ to 14,501 feet and she was willing to go even higher, but I didn't want to embarrass the YAK52 I was flying wing on... JB
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Dave Jester <wdjester(at)cox.net (wdjester(at)cox.net)> wrote:
I have been to 14,500 feet in my 52TD Termikas conversion. Sluggish on the controls that high. Or maybe I was suffering from hypoxia and I was the one sluggish! It was neat when a regional jet passed me 500 feet below.
On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Mike Beresford <mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk (mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies
Mike
|
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:15 pm Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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I confirm having read this in several old books (e.g.the book written in Gothic German by Lothar von Richthofen, the brother of the Red Baron who was also a pilot).
They routinely flew at altitudes of 4000 to 5000 meters, according to these books.
I still find this incredible to believe.
Let’s assume that the pilot indeed read this altitude on his altimeter.
Were those early instruments that precise or well calibrated?
It’s not very important to know of course, only for academic pleasure.
Jan, Yak 50 F-AZUK
From: <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Richard Goode <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 07:44
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: RE: Yak-52 Max Altitude
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
They definitely did! I suspect because the aircraft were so incredibly light.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: 19 August 2016 06:25
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude
So … if it takes a long time to get higher than 14500 feet with a Yak or a CJ, how did the aces in WW I do it with their albatrosses, sopwiths, nieuports and the like, up to 20000 feet or 6 kilometers?
From: <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Jon Blake <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 00:00
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude
Well, I've had my stock, 285HP CJ to 14,501 feet and she was willing to go even higher, but I didn't want to embarrass the YAK52 I was flying wing on... JB
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Dave Jester <wdjester(at)cox.net (wdjester(at)cox.net)> wrote:
I have been to 14,500 feet in my 52TD Termikas conversion. Sluggish on the controls that high. Or maybe I was suffering from hypoxia and I was the one sluggish! It was neat when a regional jet passed me 500 feet below.
On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Mike Beresford <mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk (mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies
Mike
|
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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rmhou(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:19 am Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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Light weight (less than 2000 lb; Nie 17 loaded is only 1232 lb), low wing loading (less than 8 lb/sqft).
via CloudMagic Email
On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 10:35 PM, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be (jan.mevis(at)informavia.be)> wrote:
| Quote: | So … if it takes a long time to get higher than 14500 feet with a Yak or a CJ, how did the aces in WW I do it with their albatrosses, sopwiths, nieuports and the like, up to 20000 feet or 6 kilometers?
From: <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Jon Blake <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 00:00
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude
Well, I've had my stock, 285HP CJ to 14,501 feet and she was willing to go even higher, but I didn't want to embarrass the YAK52 I was flying wing on... JB
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Dave Jester <wdjester(at)cox.net (wdjester(at)cox.net)> wrote:
I have been to 14,500 feet in my 52TD Termikas conversion. Sluggish on the controls that high. Or maybe I was suffering from hypoxia and I was the one sluggish! It was neat when a regional jet passed me 500 feet below.
On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Mike Beresford <mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk (mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk)> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies
Mike
|
|
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:39 am Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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Remember that Sir Hillary and his Sherpa guide, climbed Mt Everest (29,000) with out the use of oxygen. I would still doubt the accuracy of the early flight instruments. But was still plausible.
Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S® 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be>
Date: 8/19/2016 2:14 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
I confirm having read this in several old books (e.g.the book written in Gothic German by Lothar von Richthofen, the brother of the Red Baron who was also a pilot).
They routinely flew at altitudes of 4000 to 5000 meters, according to these books.
I still find this incredible to believe.
Let’s assume that the pilot indeed read this altitude on his altimeter.
Were those early instruments that precise or well calibrated?
It’s not very important to know of course, only for academic pleasure.
Jan, Yak 50 F-AZUK
From: <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Richard Goode <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 07:44
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
They definitely did! I suspect because the aircraft were so incredibly light.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: 19 August 2016 06:25
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
So … if it takes a long time to get higher than 14500 feet with a Yak or a CJ, how did the aces in WW I do it with their albatrosses, sopwiths, nieuports and the like, up to 20000 feet or 6 kilometers?
From: <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Jon Blake <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 00:00
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
Well, I've had my stock, 285HP CJ to 14,501 feet and she was willing to go even higher, but I didn't want to embarrass the YAK52 I was flying wing on... JB
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Dave Jester <wdjester(at)cox.net (wdjester(at)cox.net)> wrote:
I have been to 14,500 feet in my 52TD Termikas conversion. Sluggish on the controls that high. Or maybe I was suffering from hypoxia and I was the one sluggish! It was neat when a regional jet passed me 500 feet below.
On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Mike Beresford <mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk (mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies
Mike
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:42 am Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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Plus I seem to remember reading in a Chinese manual or Jean's the CJ6A was capable of 17,000 feet.
Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S® 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be>
Date: 8/19/2016 2:14 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
I confirm having read this in several old books (e.g.the book written in Gothic German by Lothar von Richthofen, the brother of the Red Baron who was also a pilot).
They routinely flew at altitudes of 4000 to 5000 meters, according to these books.
I still find this incredible to believe.
Let’s assume that the pilot indeed read this altitude on his altimeter.
Were those early instruments that precise or well calibrated?
It’s not very important to know of course, only for academic pleasure.
Jan, Yak 50 F-AZUK
From: <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Richard Goode <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 07:44
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
They definitely did! I suspect because the aircraft were so incredibly light.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: 19 August 2016 06:25
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
So … if it takes a long time to get higher than 14500 feet with a Yak or a CJ, how did the aces in WW I do it with their albatrosses, sopwiths, nieuports and the like, up to 20000 feet or 6 kilometers?
From: <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Jon Blake <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 00:00
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
Well, I've had my stock, 285HP CJ to 14,501 feet and she was willing to go even higher, but I didn't want to embarrass the YAK52 I was flying wing on... JB
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Dave Jester <wdjester(at)cox.net (wdjester(at)cox.net)> wrote:
I have been to 14,500 feet in my 52TD Termikas conversion. Sluggish on the controls that high. Or maybe I was suffering from hypoxia and I was the one sluggish! It was neat when a regional jet passed me 500 feet below.
On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Mike Beresford <mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk (mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies
Mike
|
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Viperdoc
Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:31 pm Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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FL 180 was listed somewhere for the YAK 52. Scotty "Sky King" Patterson got his YAK up to FL 200. He filed IFR to do it. Pretty much caught the low jet from Selma to MGM in 5 min. Good thing since he used most of his fuel to get up there.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 19, 2016, at 1:41 PM, cjpilot710 <cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Plus I seem to remember reading in a Chinese manual or Jean's the CJ6A was capable of 17,000 feet.
Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S® 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be (jan.mevis(at)informavia.be)>
Date: 8/19/2016 2:14 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude
I confirm having read this in several old books (e.g.the book written in Gothic German by Lothar von Richthofen, the brother of the Red Baron who was also a pilot).
They routinely flew at altitudes of 4000 to 5000 meters, according to these books.
I still find this incredible to believe.
Let’s assume that the pilot indeed read this altitude on his altimeter.
Were those early instruments that precise or well calibrated?
It’s not very important to know of course, only for academic pleasure.
Jan, Yak 50 F-AZUK
From: <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Richard Goode <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 07:44
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: RE: Yak-52 Max Altitude
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
They definitely did! I suspect because the aircraft were so incredibly light.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: 19 August 2016 06:25
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude
So … if it takes a long time to get higher than 14500 feet with a Yak or a CJ, how did the aces in WW I do it with their albatrosses, sopwiths, nieuports and the like, up to 20000 feet or 6 kilometers?
From: <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Jon Blake <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 00:00
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude
Well, I've had my stock, 285HP CJ to 14,501 feet and she was willing to go even higher, but I didn't want to embarrass the YAK52 I was flying wing on... JB
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Dave Jester <wdjester(at)cox.net (wdjester(at)cox.net)> wrote:
I have been to 14,500 feet in my 52TD Termikas conversion. Sluggish on the controls that high. Or maybe I was suffering from hypoxia and I was the one sluggish! It was neat when a regional jet passed me 500 feet below.
On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Mike Beresford <mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk (mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies
Mike
|
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Viperdoc
Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:54 pm Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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|
The Brits had a Dolphin that routinely operated at FL 200. The Focker DVII was good for FL180 so the SEA 5's and Dolphins would lurk above cloud decks waiting for the Fockers to appear over the FEBA. The SPAD VII-XIII and the Nieuport 28 C1 were capable of FL180-200 on very cold days also but that was near their max.
The Germans had a two seat observation aircraft, Rumpler, the flew at FL 200 and occasionally on really cold days FL210.
All of the WW I drivers had balls. Short lives too. It was the Germans that developed the parachute for fighters near the end of the War.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 19, 2016, at 1:14 AM, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be (jan.mevis(at)informavia.be)> wrote:
| Quote: | I confirm having read this in several old books (e.g.the book written in Gothic German by Lothar von Richthofen, the brother of the Red Baron who was also a pilot).
They routinely flew at altitudes of 4000 to 5000 meters, according to these books.
I still find this incredible to believe.
Let’s assume that the pilot indeed read this altitude on his altimeter.
Were those early instruments that precise or well calibrated?
It’s not very important to know of course, only for academic pleasure.
Jan, Yak 50 F-AZUK
From: <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Richard Goode <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 07:44
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak-52 Max Altitude
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
They definitely did! I suspect because the aircraft were so incredibly light.
Richard Goode
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: 19 August 2016 06:25
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude
So … if it takes a long time to get higher than 14500 feet with a Yak or a CJ, how did the aces in WW I do it with their albatrosses, sopwiths, nieuports and the like, up to 20000 feet or 6 kilometers?
From: <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of Jon Blake <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday 19 August 2016 at 00:00
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude
Well, I've had my stock, 285HP CJ to 14,501 feet and she was willing to go even higher, but I didn't want to embarrass the YAK52 I was flying wing on... JB
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Dave Jester <wdjester(at)cox.net (wdjester(at)cox.net)> wrote:
I have been to 14,500 feet in my 52TD Termikas conversion. Sluggish on the controls that high. Or maybe I was suffering from hypoxia and I was the one sluggish! It was neat when a regional jet passed me 500 feet below.
On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:48 AM, Mike Beresford <mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk (mike_beresford(at)yahoo.co.uk)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies
Mike
|
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n13472(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:04 pm Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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Cannot speak to the 52, But I had my stock CJ6A at 18,650 ft. verified by ATC going to Kalispell MT.
in 2010 on way to Osh. Was up at that altitude for about an hour. Controls were light but
responsive. When the cloud deck below broke it was a great VNE decent to the airport!!!!!!!!
Just to see how high we could go Hal Morley and I took his plane HANA HOU CJ6A with M14P with
fuel injection   over the Willamette valley of Or. to 22,500 ft. we were still climbing when we started to
get some misfiring . We think it was due to the unpressurized mags ??????????? What a view!
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV
89019
Cell 541-297-5497
N13472(at)AOL.COM
Â
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 2:07 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-52 Max Altitude
One doesn't need oxygen for a short trip beyond 13,000 feet – pilots in the First World War were patrolling at 20,000 feet!
To revert to Yaks, a standard 52 is running out of breath at 13,000 feet, but the real reason is that the Russians don't extend the manuals for an aircraft without oxygen beyond 4000 m. However, nothing to do with the engine capability – with a light 18 T; 400 hp; MT prop I was once still climbing (albeit very slowly) at 18,000 feet.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I’m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779 132 160.
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Mike Beresford
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 1:19 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude
Hi all
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Blue skies
Mike
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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William Halverson
Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:34 pm Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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Flew my YAK-55 across the Rockies in 2001 or 2 ... the bad forest fire year ... had her up to 14.5k westbound ... no indication she was tired or out of steam. I was surprised at the smell of smoke all the way up to my alt ... a bad year for fires ...
Never saw a reason to go higher ...
Hal
On 8/19/2016 9:04 PM, Tom Elliott wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Cannot speak to the 52, But I had my stock CJ6A at 18,650 ft. verified by ATC going to Kalispell MT.
in 2010 on way to Osh. Was up at that altitude for about an hour. Controls were light but
responsive. When the cloud deck below broke it was a great VNE decent to the airport!!!!!!!!
Â
Just to see how high we could go Hal Morley and I took his plane HANA HOU CJ6A with M14P with
fuel injection   over the Willamette valley of Or. to 22,500 ft. we were still climbing when we started to
get some misfiring . We think it was due to the unpressurized mags ??????????? What a view!
Â
Â
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV
89019
Cell 541-297-5497
N13472(at)AOL.COM (N13472(at)AOL.COM)
Â
Â
Â
Â
Â
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 2:07 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Yak-52 Max Altitude
Â
One doesn't need oxygen for a short trip beyond 13,000 feet – pilots in the First World War were patrolling at 20,000 feet!
Â
To revert to Yaks, a standard 52 is running out of breath at 13,000 feet, but the real reason is that the Russians don't extend the manuals for an aircraft without oxygen beyond 4000 m. However, nothing to do with the engine capability – with a light 18 T; 400 hp; MT prop I was once still climbing (albeit very slowly) at 18,000 feet.
Â
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
 Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel:Â Â +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax:Â +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I’m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779 132 160.
Â
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Mike Beresford
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 1:19 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude
Â
Hi all
Â
I've seen a maximum operating altitude for the Yak-52 quoted as 4,000 m (13,000 ft). Obviously this requires pilot oxygen, but is the altitude limitation due to operational procedures, or a technical limitation on the aircraft?
Â
Someone suggested to me that the fuel mixture compensation may run out of travel above the altitude limit. Anyone have some insight into the behaviour of the engine above 13,000 ft?
Â
Blue skies
Mike
--
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dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
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Kb8qho
Joined: 27 Jun 2019
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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had mine up to 14500 with no problems.
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n13472(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:08 am Post subject: Yak-52 Max Altitude |
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I have had my stock CJ6-A up to 18,600 ft. per ATC although my GPS and
altimeter said 18,651 ft.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV.
89019
Cell 541-297-5497
N13472(at)AOL.COM
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