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Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

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rveighta(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:48 am Post subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

I'm leaning towards gluing my canopy to the frame using Sikaflex as 

detailed in numerous posts on this list, but I'm not quite sure how to

approach the issue of gluing the skirt on.



It appears that Sikaflex would be ruled out due to the reqirement to 

have a 3/16" bead between the skirt and canopy/ frame. Someone

in the archives mentioned using Scotch SemWeld. Any other suggestions,

and what were the results of the SemWeld? 



Walt Shipley

mstewart(at)iss.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:36 am Post subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

I glued mine. There is no reason why you could not get a bead in there.

There is so little pressure on the canopy and skirt, the bead is of

little consequence anyway IMHO. 250hours at speeds other RV-8's only

dream about:)



Best,

Mike

Do not archive

--

fstringham

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 87

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:47 am Post subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

Walt



Like you I contemplated and just about went with the Sika canopy option. The 

more I read, the more I realized that there isn't alot of long term 

historical info on this product used in this application. Decide i didn't 

want to be trail blazer. I finally went with the tried and true Van's 

method. It was alot easier than I thought and came out great.



Frank (at) sgu and slc.......wiring...plus..........

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: rveighta <rveighta(at)earthlink.net>

Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

To: "rv-list(at)matronics.com" <rv-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:46:36 -0400 (EDT)






I'm leaning towards gluing my canopy to the frame using Sikaflex as

detailed in numerous posts on this list, but I'm not quite sure how to

approach the issue of gluing the skirt on.



It appears that Sikaflex would be ruled out due to the reqirement to

have a 3/16" bead between the skirt and canopy/ frame. Someone

in the archives mentioned using Scotch SemWeld. Any other suggestions,

and what were the results of the SemWeld?



Walt Shipley

rv8(at)lazy8.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I glued mine. There is no reason why you could not get a bead in there.

 There is so little pressure on the canopy and skirt, the bead is of

 little consequence anyway IMHO. 250hours at speeds other RV-8's only

 dream about:)



 Best,

 Mike

 Do not archive



   


	


Well, Mike, I'm not sure WHO is dreaming...why don't you show for one of 

the races and give us a demo?



John

aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:21 am Post subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

Hi Walt-



As I understand it, the thick bead specified in the sikaflex instructions

is to account for differential thermal expansion of the plastic window and

metal window frame.  The difference between the coefficient of thermal

expansion for plex and steel is huge.  With fiberglass and plex the

difference is very much smaller, and should require a much thinner layer of

adhesive.  I can't give you any hard numbers at the moment, as I've not

found real consistent numbers for the different coefficients yet, but I do

believe a fairly thin layer is in order.  Perhaps this topis is right up

the alley of someone on this list?. 

 

 

snip-It appears that Sikaflex would be ruled out due to the reqirement to 

have a 3/16" bead between the skirt and canopy/ frame. 

 

Walt Shipley

 

 



glen matejcek

aerobubba(at)earthlink.net

finn.lassen(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

John, you do know he's got an IO-540 in his Super-8, don't you?



Finn



John Huft wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:



> 

> <mstewart(at)iss.net>

>

> I glued mine. There is no reason why you could not get a bead in there.

> There is so little pressure on the canopy and skirt, the bead is of

> little consequence anyway IMHO. 250hours at speeds other RV-8's only

> dream about:)

>

> Best,

> Mike

> Do not archive

>

>   

 Well, Mike, I'm not sure WHO is dreaming...why don't you show for one 

 of the races and give us a demo?



 John

amoulin(at)qc.aira.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:59 am Post subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

Hi,

Just for your information, I did a RV-3 canopy with Sikaflex and after about 

3 weeks the canopy got unglued!

Antoine Moulin

---

mstewart(at)iss.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:28 am Post subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

This is the first I have heard of any canopy glue failures using

Sikaflex.

Can you provide any info as to the installation? Were all the

manufacturers installation instructions followed? Scuffing, cleaner,

primer, bead?

Was the separation in flight or noticed on the ground?



Details would be very helpful for others.

Thanks

Mike





--

rv8(at)lazy8.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

Yes, Finn, I know. It would seem that means he can blow more hot air.

I just can't help but be suspicious of these airplanes...Super-6, 

Super-7, Super-8, Rockets, Harmon and F-1. Why is it they never show up 

for a race like the AirVenture Cup? I think is because then they would 

have to stop bragging about how fast they are. I think the truth is the 

airplanes are so far out of balance with that 6-cylinder in front they 

just burn more gas, and produce more hot air.

The gauntlet has been tossed.

John

Finn Lassen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 John, you do know he's got an IO-540 in his Super-8, don't you?

 Finn

 John Huft wrote:

> 

> Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:

>

>> 

>> <mstewart(at)iss.net>

>>

>> I glued mine. There is no reason why you could not get a bead in there.

>> There is so little pressure on the canopy and skirt, the bead is of

>> little consequence anyway IMHO. 250hours at speeds other RV-8's only

>> dream about:)

>>

>> Best,

>> Mike

>> Do not archive

>>

>>   

> Well, Mike, I'm not sure WHO is dreaming...why don't you show for one 

> of the races and give us a demo?

>

> John

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

 http://wiki.matronics.com

rv8ch

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:59 am Post subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

Antoine Moulin wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi,

 Just for your information, I did a RV-3 canopy with Sikaflex and after 

 about 3 weeks the canopy got unglued!

 Antoine Moulin


	


Salut Antoine,



Which sikaflex product did you use?

Why do you think it didn't work for you?

How did you end up attaching the canopy?



Thanks,

Mickey



-- 

Mickey Coggins

http://www.rv8.ch/

#82007 finishing

_________________
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/

T.gummo(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

I have a Harmon Rocket-II with an IO-540 J4A5 and a MT four blade prop.  I 

have never made the claim that my plane was faster.  I am now 10 knots 

slower because of the four bladed prop.  With the 2 prop Hartzell, the plane 

was faster.  My engine is stock 250 HP.  My tests which were done a long 

time ago showed that I trued out at 180 Knots (no wind) at 10.5 gph in the 

10500/11500 altitude range..  Now with the MT prop, I cruise at 170 Knots 

True.  (However, the four bladed prop does look great with my military paint 

scheme.)



I am a first time builder and I built on a budget.  There was no attempt to 

maximize for speed as most Rockets have built up engines with more than 250 

HP, so my plane would not have been able keep up anyway.  I built to fly!



What I have found is that when I fly with other RVs, my fuel flows are 

within a couple of tenths and my MP is lower.



Lets get to what is really important.  I build my plane for me.  It puts a 

smile on my face every time I fly it.  Harmon Rocket-II cockpit is bigger 

than the RV-4 it is based on.  It even has more room for the backseater. 

The two people, who helped me the most build it, weigh in at 230 and 280.  I 

am also no light weight.  The Harmon Rocket-II with the battery up front has 

a very forward CG.  I can however, fly with a person who weight 318 pounds 

in the back seat and still be within limits..  There is NO RV-4 that I know 

of that can do that.  Most RV-4's and RV-8's have to be careful about flying 

a large person in the rear seat.  If I can close the canopy with you in the 

backseat, you can fit inside the seatbelt, and you don't interfere with the 

stick, etc, I can and mostly will give you a ride.



No I don't race but I have given over one hundred and thirty different 

people rides in the 280+ hours in the last four years.  You go ahead and 

race, I will continue to share my love of flying with as many people as I 

can.  Different strokes for different folks.



While my plane isn't that fast, I will met you overhead APV (OK, in the next 

valley to stay out of the traffic pattern).  As we pass head-on, the fight 

will be on.   Your speed will only help you if you are running away.  



Tom Gummo

Apple Valley, CA

Harmon Rocket-II



do not archive



http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html

---

amoulin(at)qc.aira.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:48 am Post subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

Bonjour Mickey,

I used Sikaflex 295, primer 209,cleaner 205, the plexiglass and the frame 

was well sanded and thickness controled with popsicle wood sticks. I think 

the trouble is the paint that I used on the frame.The fix was holes and pop 

rivets. I am making the skirt rigth now so in few days I may have some 

pictures available.

Antoine

---

mstewart(at)iss.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

So it separated at the paint and not the glue?

That would make sense to me. I have no doubt the glue is tougher than

the paint its glued to.

Mike

--

rv8ch

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

Antoine Moulin wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I used Sikaflex 295, primer 209,cleaner 205, the plexiglass and the 

 frame was well sanded and thickness controled with popsicle wood sticks. 

 I think the trouble is the paint that I used on the frame.The fix was 

 holes and pop rivets. I am making the skirt rigth now so in few days I 

 may have some pictures available.

 Antoine


	


Wow, I hope the paint was the problem.  My canopy frame was

powder-coated from the factory, and it seems to be stuck on

pretty well.



Thanks for the information!

-- 

Mickey Coggins

http://www.rv8.ch/

#82007 finishing



do not archive

_________________
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/

bkbrown(at)ashcreekwirele
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:23 pm Post subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

FWIW, before gluing the canopy and windscreen (and skirts) on my 7A frame and fuselage with Sikaflex, I bought some black Sikaflex295UV and did a few Dr. Destructo pull tests using scrap pieces of plexi and pieces of both powder coated steel and aluminum.  Thickness of the adhesive beads was controlled with rubber hose washers at 3/16ths inch per the product data sheet manuals.  On one pull test, I tore the aluminum sheet (.032) and the Sika joint never failed.  In all my other tests, the plexi failed.   The Sika joints never failed.  I can only presume the product that failed was out of date (either the primer, the wash or the adhesive or all) or there was some other contaminant present at the point of adhesion.  This product has been sold as an adhesive for polycarbonate and plexiglass for years.  It is recognized as an industry standard for the application we are using it for.  I suppose time will tell, but there are installations in RV’s out there now with over 5 years on them.  If anyone knows of any other failures, I’d sure like to hear the details about them.  I can only speak about my installation, which shows no sign of being anything but solid.  I did return some tubes of Sikaflex which were out of date when I received them.  I’d suggest looking at those dates closely.  One thing I’ve learned from using Sikaflex 295 is that it will absolutely not stick to a surface that has not been properly prepped (both surfaces sanded w/60 grit, washed, primed).  Also note there are time limits…wait 20 minutes after the wash coat before priming.  Adhesive must be applied within 2 hrs of priming.  I used to freak out if I got some Sikaflex on the canopy outside my masked bead area…later I just left it on until it cured, because it would peel off as easy as rivet tape if it was not applied over a properly prepped area.  

   

Bob  

   

_______________________________________________  

Bob and Karen Brown  

RV7A - flying

martin(at)gbonline.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject: Gluing Canopy Skirt - RV-8

Mike,

In reference to your comment "speeds that other RV8s can only dream abount". 

This statement has left me with a bit of skepticism.

I am assuming that this statement means that your RV8 is faster than all of 

the others.  It would seem to me that you would be anxious to demonstrate 

your prowess in the Air Venture Race just before Oshkosh.  Their is still 

time to squeeze in a potentially class winning participant.  Contact Eric 

White immediately and he may be able to squeeze you in the Race.

I , John Huft and Dave Anders would really enjoy some j

"high speed" competition.

Dick Martin

RV8 N233M

the fast one

---

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