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ggtyler
Joined: 05 Mar 2016
Posts: 29
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 Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:53 am Post subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
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On my new to me Yak 52TW, the motor is running rich at idle (puffing black smoke, smells very rich).
At low power settings on final, it has a stumble as well.
Motor is M14PF, and boost pump is running on the ground, takeoff, and final.
I have not performed the Jim Kimball mod to the carb.
I've searched the forums, google and the repair manual but see mainly suggestions for the loading up issues and stumble when advancing the throttle. Mine does not stumble when advancing the throttle.
What is the best way to lean out the mixture at low RPM's?
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:06 am Post subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
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The boost pump should not be running on the ground, takeoff and final. The boost pump was installed at the Aerostar factory on the TW to eliminate the manual "system side pump which is/was used to pressurize the fuel system (watch the fuel pressure instrument) prior to starting. Turn off the boost pump and fly the airplane. The boost pump is flooding the carburetor. That should cure the problem.
Dennis
From: ggtyler <ggtyler(at)gmail.com>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 12:53 PM
Subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling
--> Yak-List message posted by: "ggtyler" <ggtyler(at)gmail.com (ggtyler(at)gmail.com)>
On my new to me Yak 52TW, the motor is running rich at idle (puffing black smoke, smells very rich).
At low power settings on final, it has a stumble as well.
Motor is M14PF, and boost pump is running on the ground, takeoff, and final.
I have not performed the Jim Kimball mod to the carb.
I've searched the forums, google and the repair manual but see mainly suggestions for the loading up issues and stumble when advancing the throttle. Mine does not stumble when advancing the throttle.
What is the best way to lean out the mixture at low RPM's?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/vi//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronp; &nhttp://========================
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Richard.goode(at)russiana
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:08 am Post subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
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Quite simply your carburettor is not set up correctly. The idle adjustment
is clearly too rich, and I suspect the "stumble" is caused by an
acceleration jet that is too large. And, if it is running too rich at higher
power settings, then you will need a larger suction jet. These carburettors
are extremely adjustable.
Richard Goode
--
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rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:33 am Post subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
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Dennis Savarese, ladies and gentlemen!!
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 25, 2016, at 12:10 PM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net<mailto:dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>> wrote:
The boost pump should not be running on the ground, takeoff and final. The boost pump was installed at the Aerostar factory on the TW to eliminate the manual "system side pump which is/was used to pressurize the fuel system (watch the fuel pressure instrument) prior to starting. Turn off the boost pump and fly the airplane. The boost pump is flooding the carburetor. That should cure the problem.
Dennis
________________________________
From: ggtyler <ggtyler(at)gmail.com<mailto:ggtyler(at)gmail.com>>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com<mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 12:53 PM
Subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling
On my new to me Yak 52TW, the motor is running rich at idle (puffing black smoke, smells very rich).
At low power settings on final, it has a stumble as well.
Motor is M14PF, and boost pump is running on the ground, takeoff, and final
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bwade154(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:42 am Post subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
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Also just looked on barnstormers and the TW has the primer for pipe and cylinder that primer needs to be in the middle ie straight up and down should cyl be selected after starting it continues to dump fuel to the cyl
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com" <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling
The boost pump should not be running on the ground, takeoff and final. The boost pump was installed at the Aerostar factory on the TW to eliminate the manual "system side pump which is/was used to pressurize the fuel system (watch the fuel pressure instrument) prior to starting. Turn off the boost pump and fly the airplane. The boost pump is flooding the carburetor. That should cure the problem.
Dennis
From: ggtyler <ggtyler(at)gmail.com>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 12:53 PM
Subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling
--> Yak-List message posted by: "ggtyler" <ggtyler(at)gmail.com (ggtyler(at)gmail.com)>
On my new to me Yak 52TW, the motor is running rich at idle (puffing black smoke, smells very rich).
At low power settings on final, it has a stumble as well.
Motor is M14PF, and boost pump is running on the ground, takeoff, and final.
I have not performed the Jim Kimball mod to the carb.
I've searched the forums, google and the repair manual but see mainly suggestions for the loading up issues and stumble when advancing the throttle. Mine does not stumble when advancing the throttle.
What is the best way to lean out the mixture at low RPM's?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=460716#460716http://========================
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ggtyler
Joined: 05 Mar 2016
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:39 am Post subject: Re: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
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Dennis,
Thank you for the inside scoop. I must have been advised incorrectly or misunderstood the boost pump usage procedure. I think I had been told that the boost pump was to be running on take off and landing to provide fuel just in case the mechanical fuel pump failed. I will do as you advised, and go from there.
My general start up procedure in regards to fuel has been to turn the boost pump on, verify fuel pressure, then prime the engine (knob to the right) as necessary, turn primer knob vertical again and fire up the engine. I've never had to build pressure by turning the primer knob to the left.
Other than the stumble at pig rich idle/low rpm's, the engine runs flawlessly.
Again, thanks for the help. I'll try turning the boost pump off once running and report back from there if that does not fix the problem.
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jrittenbach
Joined: 08 Nov 2011
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:29 pm Post subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
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What spark plug are you running?
JS Rittenbach
| Quote: | On Sep 25, 2016, at 9:53 AM, ggtyler <ggtyler(at)gmail.com> wrote:
On my new to me Yak 52TW, the motor is running rich at idle (puffing black smoke, smells very rich).
At low power settings on final, it has a stumble as well.
Motor is M14PF, and boost pump is running on the ground, takeoff, and final.
I have not performed the Jim Kimball mod to the carb.
I've searched the forums, google and the repair manual but see mainly suggestions for the loading up issues and stumble when advancing the throttle. Mine does not stumble when advancing the throttle.
What is the best way to lean out the mixture at low RPM's?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=460716#460716
|
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_________________
J Rittenbach |
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ggtyler
Joined: 05 Mar 2016
Posts: 29
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:02 am Post subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
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The boost pump is in parallel to the primer pump turned to the left. Both electric and manual pumps were designed to pressurize the fuel system prior to engine start. In the standard 52, one uses the primer pump turned to the left to do the same thing you are doing with the boost pump; pressurize the fuel system. Should the engine driven fuel pump fail during flight, (I personally have never seen one fail), the manual primer pump was turned to the left and pumped like heck to keep fuel flowing to the carburetor. With the electric boost pump like you have on the TW, all one would have to do is switch on the electric boost pump instead.
Dennis
From: ggtyler <ggtyler(at)gmail.com>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling
--> Yak-List message posted by: "ggtyler" <ggtyler(at)gmail.com (ggtyler(at)gmail.com)>
Dennis,
Thank you for the inside scoop. I must have been advised incorrectly or misunderstood the boost pump usage procedure. I think I had been told that the boost pump was to be running on take off and landing to provide fuel just in case the mechanical fuel pump failed. I will do as you advised, and go from there.
My general start up procedure in regards to fuel has been to turn the boost pump on, verify fuel pressure, then prime the engine (knob to the right) as necessary, turn primer knob vertical again and fire up the engine. I've never had to build pressure by turning the primer knob to the left.
Other than the stumble at pig rich idle/low rpm's, the engine runs flawlessly.
Again, thanks for the help. I'll try turning the boost pump off once running and report back from there if that does not fix the problem.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=460722#460722
http://wiki.matronics.com; -Matt Dralcontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution[/url]<b============
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:38 am Post subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
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We are now shipping the automotive conversion kit with NGK BPR6HS plugs. Gap remains the same at .020. NGK part number is 7022. Essentially the same as the BR6HS (p/n 3022) that we shipped with the kit for years except this plug has an extended tip which places the tip a tiny bit further into the combustion chamber rather than flush with the surface of the combustion chamber just like the original Russian or Chinese plugs and the BR6HS plugs were. This especially helps on the lower cylinders when oil is present. Heat range is the same. Here's a photos of the NGK plugs. The standard BR6HS plus is on the left. BPR6HS extended reach on the right.
[img]cid:314cea3b-9e92-d8f5-e480-2b7897112324(at)yahoo.com[/img]
BTW, this is not something new. In fact in Lycoming and Continental engines, whenever an engine has evidence of fouling, especially on the lower plugs in the cylinders, they recommended using the extended reach version of the plug. Here's a photo of the Champion standard reach and extended reach.
Dennis
From: ggtyler <ggtyler(at)gmail.com>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling
--> Yak-List message posted by: "ggtyler" <ggtyler(at)gmail.com (ggtyler(at)gmail.com)>
JS Rittenbach: The TW has the auto spark plug conversion with NGK plugs. I'd have to look through the notes, but we used whatever part number John Shuttleworth told us to when he sent us to the store 
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=460729#460729
"http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.co="http://wiki.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com; -Matt Dralcontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<b============
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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GeorgeCoy
Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:44 am Post subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
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Dennis and others,
As the de facto designer of the Yak 52W and TW, I had an electric pump installed as the aircraft it is a low wing and as per western standards, a back up pump is necessary in the event of the mechanical pump failing or becoming clogged with debris.
 It is also common per western aircraft POH that the back up pump is usually used during critical phases of flight where a mechanical pump failure would be problematic.
I would also add that that in my years of flying behind M14P and AI14 engines I never had a mechanical pump failure.
I did however need to use the hand Primer in a stock 52 during a ferry flight for 20 minutes on one occasion to make it to an airport due to a partial clogging of the vent system. It was further complicated due to the fact I was on top of class C airspace and had no transponder and no working com radio. I had departed class D airport using light gun signals and was going to uncontrolled airport. I had a handheld radio, but using one hand to keep the airplane engine running and the other to fly, I could not use the handheld. Another of life's lessons learned!
George Coy
On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 6:52 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | The boost pump is in parallel to the primer pump turned to the left. Both electric and manual pumps were designed to pressurize the fuel system prior to engine start.  In the standard 52, one uses the primer pump turned to the left to do the same thing you are doing with the boost pump; pressurize the fuel system. Should the engine driven fuel pump fail during flight, (I personally have never seen one fail), the manual primer pump was turned to the left and pumped like heck to keep fuel flowing to the carburetor. With the electric boost pump like you have on the TW, all one would have to do is switch on the electric boost pump instead.
Dennis
From: ggtyler <ggtyler(at)gmail.com (ggtyler(at)gmail.com)>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling
--> Yak-List message posted by: "ggtyler" <ggtyler(at)gmail.com (ggtyler(at)gmail.com)>
Dennis,
Thank you for the inside scoop. I must have been advised incorrectly or misunderstood the boost pump usage procedure. I think I had been told that the boost pump was to be running on take off and landing to provide fuel just in case the mechanical fuel pump failed. I will do as you advised, and go from there.
My general start up procedure in regards to fuel has been to turn the boost pump on, verify fuel pressure, then prime the engine (knob to the right) as necessary, turn primer knob vertical again and fire up the engine. I've never had to build pressure by turning the primer knob to the left.
Other than the stumble at pig rich idle/low rpm's, the engine runs flawlessly.
Again, thanks for the help. I'll try turning the boost pump off once running and report back from there if that does not fix the problem.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=460722#460722
http://forums.matronics.co="http://wiki.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com; Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â -Matt Dralcontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
--
George Coy
CAS Ltd.
714 Airport Rd.
Swanton VT 05488
802-868-5633 off
802-363-5782 cell
george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)
http://coyafct.com/
SKYPE george.coy
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:32 am Post subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
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George,
Yes, I understand everything you saidand you are of course, 100%
correct. Plus we all thankyou for the W and TW too! And yes, using the
electric boost pump is SOPon western aircraft. But I believe leaving it
on in the situation described may be causing the stumbling and rough
running becauseof too much fuel.
As I said, I too have never had or has anyone ever mentioned a
mechanical fuel pump failure.
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 9/26/2016 9:37 AM, George Coy wrote:
| Quote: | Dennis and others,
As the de facto designer of the Yak 52W and TW, I had an electric pump
installed as the aircraft it is a low wing and as per western
standards, a back up pump is necessary in the event of the mechanical
pump failing or becoming clogged with debris.
It is also common per western aircraft POH that the back up pump is
usually used during critical phases of flight where a mechanical pump
failure would be problematic.
I would also add that that in my years of flying behind M14P and AI14
engines I never had a mechanical pump failure.
I did however need to use the hand Primer in a stock 52 during a ferry
flight for 20 minutes on one occasion to make it to an airport due to
a partial clogging of the vent system. It was further complicated due
to the fact I was on top of class C airspace and had no transponder
and no working com radio. I had departed class D airport using light
gun signals and was going to uncontrolled airport. I had a handheld
radio, but using one hand to keep the airplane engine running and the
other to fly, I could not use the handheld. Another of life's lessons
learned!
George Coy
On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 6:52 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
<dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>> wrote:
The boost pump is in parallel to the primer pump turned to the
left. Both electric and manual pumps were designed to pressurize
the fuel system prior to engine start. In the standard 52, one
uses the primer pump turned to the left to do the same thing you
are doing with the boost pump; pressurize the fuel system.
Should the engine driven fuel pump fail during flight, (I
personally have never seen one fail), the manual primer pump was
turned to the left and pumped like heck to keep fuel flowing to
the carburetor. With the electric boost pump like you have on the
TW, all one would have to do is switch on the electric boost pump
instead.
Dennis
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* ggtyler <ggtyler(at)gmail.com <mailto:ggtyler(at)gmail.com>>
*To:* yak-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, September 25, 2016 2:39 PM
*Subject:* Re: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling
<mailto:ggtyler(at)gmail.com>>
Dennis,
Thank you for the inside scoop. I must have been advised
incorrectly or misunderstood the boost pump usage procedure. I
think I had been told that the boost pump was to be running on
take off and landing to provide fuel just in case the mechanical
fuel pump failed. I will do as you advised, and go from there.
My general start up procedure in regards to fuel has been to turn
the boost pump on, verify fuel pressure, then prime the engine
(knob to the right) as necessary, turn primer knob vertical again
and fire up the engine. I've never had to build pressure by
turning the primer knob to the left.
Other than the stumble at pig rich idle/low rpm's, the engine runs
flawlessly.
Again, thanks for the help. I'll try turning the boost pump off
once running and report back from there if that does not fix the
problem.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=460722#460722
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=460722#460722>
http://forums.matronics.co="http://wiki.matronics.com/
<http://wiki.matronics.com/>"
target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
<http://wiki.matronics.com>; -Matt
Dralcontribution"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
--
George Coy
CAS Ltd.
714 Airport Rd.
Swanton VT 05488
802-868-5633 off
802-363-5782 cell
george.coy(at)gmail.com <mailto:george.coy(at)gmail.com>
http://coyafct.com/
SKYPE george.coy
|
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jblake207(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:11 am Post subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
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I may be wrong, but I thought the electric boost pumps on "western" aircraft were designed to deliver slightly less pressure (up to certain pressure altitudes) than the mechanical or engine-driven fuel pumps for that very reason... so as to NOT provide more fuel than needed, yet enough fuel should the mechanical pump fail. JB
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 9:31:34 AM
Subject: Re: Re: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
George,
Yes, I understand everything you saidand you are of course, 100%
correct. Plus we all thankyou for the W and TW too! And yes, using the
electric boost pump is SOPon western aircraft. But I believe leaving it
on in the situation described may be causing the stumbling and rough
running becauseof too much fuel.
As I said, I too have never had or has anyone ever mentioned a
mechanical fuel pump failure.
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 9/26/2016 9:37 AM, George Coy wrote:
| Quote: | Dennis and others,
As the de facto designer of the Yak 52W and TW, I had an electric pump
installed as the aircraft it is a low wing and as per western
standards, a back up pump is necessary in the event of the mechanical
pump failing or becoming clogged with debris.
It is also common per western aircraft POH that the back up pump is
usually used during critical phases of flight where a mechanical pump
failure would be problematic.
I would also add that that in my years of flying behind M14P and AI14
engines I never had a mechanical pump failure.
I did however need to use the hand Primer in a stock 52 during a ferry
flight for 20 minutes on one occasion to make it to an airport due to
a partial clogging of the vent system. It was further complicated due
to the fact I was on top of class C airspace and had no transponder
and no working com radio. I had departed class D airport using light
gun signals and was going to uncontrolled airport. I had a handheld
radio, but using one hand to keep the airplane engine running and the
other to fly, I could not use the handheld. Another of life's lessons
learned!
George Coy
On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 6:52 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
<dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>> wrote:
The boost pump is in parallel to the primer pump turned to the
left. Both electric and manual pumps were designed to pressurize
the fuel system prior to engine start. In the standard 52, one
uses the primer pump turned to the left to do the same thing you
are doing with the boost pump; pressurize the fuel system.
Should the engine driven fuel pump fail during flight, (I
personally have never seen one fail), the manual primer pump was
turned to the left and pumped like heck to keep fuel flowing to
the carburetor. With the electric boost pump like you have on the
TW, all one would have to do is switch on the electric boost pump
instead.
Dennis
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* ggtyler <ggtyler(at)gmail.com <mailto:ggtyler(at)gmail.com>>
*To:* yak-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, September 25, 2016 2:39 PM
*Subject:* Re: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling
--> Yak-List message posted by: "ggtyler" <ggtyler(at)gmail.com
<mailto:ggtyler(at)gmail.com>>
Dennis,
Thank you for the inside scoop. I must have been advised
incorrectly or misunderstood the boost pump usage procedure. I
think I had been told that the boost pump was to be running on
take off and landing to provide fuel just in case the mechanical
fuel pump failed. I will do as you advised, and go from there.
My general start up procedure in regards to fuel has been to turn
the boost pump on, verify fuel pressure, then prime the engine
(knob to the right) as necessary, turn primer knob vertical again
and fire up the engine. I've never had to build pressure by
turning the primer knob to the left.
Other than the stumble at pig rich idle/low rpm's, the engine runs
flawlessly.
Again, thanks for the help. I'll try turning the boost pump off
once running and report back from there if that does not fix the
problem.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=460722#460722
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=460722#460722>
http://forums.matronics.co="http://wiki.matronics.com/
<http://wiki.matronics.com/>"
target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
<http://wiki.matronics.com>; -Matt
Dralcontribution"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
--
George Coy
CAS Ltd.
714 Airport Rd.
Swanton VT 05488
802-868-5633 off
802-363-5782 cell
george.coy(at)gmail.com <mailto:george.coy(at)gmail.com>
http://coyafct.com/
SKYPE george.coy
&nbs=================
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:30 am Post subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
|
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True Jon. But that may not be the case with the Facet pump installed in the 52TW. Mark Bitterlich's suggestion is excellent. Check the fuel pressure at RPM with the boost pump on and off.
Dennis
From: JON <jblake207(at)comcast.net>
To: Yak-List <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: Re: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling
I may be wrong, but I thought the electric boost pumps on "western" aircraft were designed to deliver slightly less pressure (up to certain pressure altitudes) than the mechanical or engine-driven fuel pumps for that very reason... so as to NOT provide more fuel than needed, yet enough fuel should the mechanical pump fail. JB
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 9:31:34 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
George,
Yes, I understand everything you saidand you are of course, 100%
correct. Plus we all thankyou for the W and TW too! And yes, using the
electric boost pump is SOPon western aircraft. But I believe leaving it
on in the situation described may be causing the stumbling and rough
running becauseof too much fuel.
As I said, I too have never had or has anyone ever mentioned a
mechanical fuel pump failure.
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 9/26/2016 9:37 AM, George Coy wrote:
| Quote: | Dennis and others,
As the de facto designer of the Yak 52W and TW, I had an electric pump
installed as the aircraft it is a low wing and as per western
standards, a back up pump is necessary in the event of the mechanical
pump failing or becoming clogged with debris.
It is also common per western aircraft POH that the back up pump is
usually used during critical phases of flight where a mechanical pump
failure would be problematic.
I would also add that that in my years of flying behind M14P and AI14
engines I never had a mechanical pump failure.
I did however need to use the hand Primer in a stock 52 during a ferry
flight for 20 minutes on one occasion to make it to an airport due to
a partial clogging of the vent system. It was further complicated due
to the fact I was on top of class C airspace and had no transponder
and no working com radio. I had departed class D airport using light
gun signals and was going to uncontrolled airport. I had a handheld
radio, but using one hand to keep the airplane engine running and the
other to fly, I could not use the handheld. Another of life's lessons
learned!
George Coy
On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 6:52 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
<dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>> wrote:
The boost pump is in parallel to the primer pump turned to the
left. Both electric and manual pumps were designed to pressurize
the fuel system prior to engine start. In the standard 52, one
uses the primer pump turned to the left to do the same thing you
are doing with the boost pump; pressurize the fuel system.
Should the engine driven fuel pump fail during flight, (I
personally have never seen one fail), the manual primer pump was
turned to the left and pumped like heck to keep fuel flowing to
the carburetor. With the electric boost pump like you have on the
TW, all one would have to do is switch on the electric boost pump
instead.
Dennis
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* ggtyler <ggtyler(at)gmail.com <mailto:ggtyler(at)gmail.com>>
*To:* yak-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, September 25, 2016 2:39 PM
*Subject:* Re: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling
--> Yak-List message posted by: "ggtyler" <ggtyler(at)gmail.com
<mailto:ggtyler(at)gmail.com>>
Dennis,
Thank you for the inside scoop. I must have been advised
incorrectly or misunderstood the boost pump usage procedure. I
think I had been told that the boost pump was to be running on
take off and landing to provide fuel just in case the mechanical
fuel pump failed. I will do as you advised, and go from there.
My general start up procedure in regards to fuel has been to turn
the boost pump on, verify fuel pressure, then prime the engine
(knob to the right) as necessary, turn primer knob vertical again
and fire up the engine. I've never had to build pressure by
turning the primer knob to the left.
Other than the stumble at pig rich idle/low rpm's, the engine runs
flawlessly.
Again, thanks for the help. I'll try turning the boost pump off
once running and report back from there if that does not fix the
problem.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=460722#460722
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=460722#460722>
http://forums.matronics.co="http://wiki.matronics.com/
<http://wiki.matronics.com/>"
target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
<http://wiki.matronics.com>; -Matt
Dralcontribution"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
--
George Coy
CAS Ltd.
714 Airport Rd.
Swanton VT 05488
802-868-5633 off
802-363-5782 cell
george.coy(at)gmail.com <mailto:george.coy(at)gmail.com>
http://coyafct.com/
SKYPE george.coy
&nbs=================
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dean.james.matthews(at)ic
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:15 pm Post subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
|
|
Dennis,
Thanks for the post - what is the cost of the kit?
Cheers
Dean
On 26 Sep 2016, at 9:32 PM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | We are now shipping the automotive conversion kit with NGK BPR6HS plugs. Gap remains the same at .020. NGK part number is 7022. Essentially the same as the BR6HS (p/n 3022) that we shipped with the kit for years except this plug has an extended tip which places the tip a tiny bit further into the combustion chamber rather than flush with the surface of the combustion chamber just like the original Russian or Chinese plugs and the BR6HS plugs were. This especially helps on the lower cylinders when oil is present. Heat range is the same. Here's a photos of the NGK plugs. The standard BR6HS plus is on the left. BPR6HS extended reach on the right.
<NGK Spark Plugs BPR6HS and BR6HS.jpg>
BTW, this is not something new. In fact in Lycoming and Continental engines, whenever an engine has evidence of fouling, especially on the lower plugs in the cylinders, they recommended using the extended reach version of the plug. Here's a photo of the Champion standard reach and extended reach.
Dennis
From: ggtyler <ggtyler(at)gmail.com (ggtyler(at)gmail.com)>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling
--> Yak-List message posted by: "ggtyler" <ggtyler(at)gmail.com (ggtyler(at)gmail.com)>
JS Rittenbach: The TW has the auto spark plug conversion with NGK plugs. I'd have to look through the notes, but we used whatever part number John Shuttleworth told us to when he sent us to the store
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=460729#460729
"http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.co="http://wiki.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com; -Matt Dralcontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<NGK Spark Plugs BPR6HS and BR6HS.jpg>
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:59 pm Post subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
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$595.00 including shipping and insurance to US addresses. It includes everything needed to facilitate the installation.
Contact me off list if you're interested in purchasing a kit or if you need more information.
dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)
Dennis
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 26, 2016, at 5:14 PM, Dean James <dean.james.matthews(at)icloud.com (dean.james.matthews(at)icloud.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Dennis,
Thanks for the post - what is the cost of the kit?
Cheers
Dean
On 26 Sep 2016, at 9:32 PM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | We are now shipping the automotive conversion kit with NGK BPR6HS plugs. Gap remains the same at .020. NGK part number is 7022. Essentially the same as the BR6HS (p/n 3022) that we shipped with the kit for years except this plug has an extended tip which places the tip a tiny bit further into the combustion chamber rather than flush with the surface of the combustion chamber just like the original Russian or Chinese plugs and the BR6HS plugs were. This especially helps on the lower cylinders when oil is present. Heat range is the same. Here's a photos of the NGK plugs. The standard BR6HS plus is on the left. BPR6HS extended reach on the right.
<NGK Spark Plugs BPR6HS and BR6HS.jpg>
BTW, this is not something new. In fact in Lycoming and Continental engines, whenever an engine has evidence of fouling, especially on the lower plugs in the cylinders, they recommended using the extended reach version of the plug. Here's a photo of the Champion standard reach and extended reach.
Dennis
From: ggtyler <ggtyler(at)gmail.com (ggtyler(at)gmail.com)>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 8:23 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling
--> Yak-List message posted by: "ggtyler" <ggtyler(at)gmail.com (ggtyler(at)gmail.com)>
JS Rittenbach: The TW has the auto spark plug conversion with NGK plugs. I'd have to look through the notes, but we used whatever part number John Shuttleworth told us to when he sent us to the store
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=460729#460729
"http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.co="http://wiki.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com; -Matt Dralcontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<NGK Spark Plugs BPR6HS and BR6HS.jpg>
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ggtyler
Joined: 05 Mar 2016
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:39 am Post subject: Re: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
|
|
Turning the boost pump off after start up did not cure the rough idle issue.
Fuel pressure does not change any with or without the boost pump on when the engine is running.
Should I attempt to adjust the idle mixture screw next? If so, does anyone have a pic of exactly where it lives on the carb? having a difficult time pinpointing it with the factory manual.
On another note, the engine would not turn over on Sunday. Just a hiss and a POP! with no prop movement. Looking on the forums, I was quickly able to find out that it was likely the batteries going south. Pulled the batteries and sure enough, reading 11.95V on one, and 12.1V on the other. When the starter was depressed, it'd drop to 23.1V. Dropped in a couple of new batteries and the starter solenoid worked perfectly.
Without all the YakList help, I'd be up a creek on half this stuff, so Big Thanks!!
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byronmfox(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:41 am Post subject: M14P running very rich at idle, stumbling |
|
|
On the RPA's Online Store you'll find an excellent guide to adjusting the M-14Ps carb. See http://flyredstar.org/catalog.php?cat=6&pid=43
On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 10:39 AM, ggtyler <ggtyler(at)gmail.com (ggtyler(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "ggtyler" <ggtyler(at)gmail.com (ggtyler(at)gmail.com)>
Turning the boost pump off after start up did not cure the rough idle issue.
Fuel pressure does not change any with or without the boost pump on when the engine is running.
Should I attempt to adjust the idle mixture screw next? If so, does anyone have a pic of exactly where it lives on the carb? having a difficult time pinpointing it with the factory manual.
On another note, the engine would not turn over on Sunday. Just a hiss and a POP! with no prop movement. Looking on the forums, I was quickly able to find out that it was likely the batteries going south. Pulled the batteries and sure enough, reading 11.95V on one, and 12.1V on the other. When the starter was depressed, it'd drop to 23.1V. Dropped in a couple of new batteries and the starter solenoid worked perfectly.
Without all the YakList help, I'd be up a creek on half this stuff, so Big Thanks!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=460796#460796
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Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405
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