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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
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 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:52 am Post subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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Herb- I don't see what alloy this stuff is made from, nor do I know what Kolb uses. I bought a new main tube from Kolb a few years ago, and don't recall what I paid.
Bill Sullivan
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On Sat, 10/29/16, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> wrote:
Subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Saturday, October 29, 2016, 12:55 PM
Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Wonder what quantity has to be bought..and what alloy?Â
Cannot be 500
plus dollars for 20 feet! That would be a whole lot of
Lettuce !!
   some one near by..go over and check
out the dumpster!  Herb
http://hastingsirrigation.com/node/13
Forum -
   - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
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Dralle, List Admin.
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:22 am Post subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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6063 T? as I recall? 20 foot length is over 500 bucks now.. Not sure
the alloy of the wing spars...same I am pretty sure..Plenty strong...I
am guessing that small quantities can be bought from them or an end
user...Herb
ps this link will make you guys with bent booms and spars
salivate... Herb
http://www.mairrigation.com/aluminum-pipe---tubing.html
On 10/29/2016 12:51 PM, william sullivan wrote:
| Quote: |
Herb- I don't see what alloy this stuff is made from, nor do I know what Kolb uses. I bought a new main tube from Kolb a few years ago, and don't recall what I paid.
Bill Sullivan
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 10/29/16, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> wrote:
Subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Saturday, October 29, 2016, 12:55 PM
Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Wonder what quantity has to be bought..and what alloy?
Cannot be 500
plus dollars for 20 feet! That would be a whole lot of
Lettuce !!
some one near by..go over and check
out the dumpster! Herb
http://hastingsirrigation.com/node/13
Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
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--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
"Daddy, tell me...why are you going to the pig farm for a reeducation and what does it mean "A basket of deplorables"? "Are you unreedemable"? And" who is Stalin and Mao Zedong"? Mark Twain's GGgranddaughter...
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:40 pm Post subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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I don't know what alloy it is, but it makes a great one piece
hangar/shop door. 10' tall, 30' wide; counterbalanced for manual operation.
If your state publishes an agricultural newsletter, look there for deals
on used irrigation tubing.
Charlie
On 10/29/2016 12:51 PM, william sullivan wrote:
| Quote: |
Herb- I don't see what alloy this stuff is made from, nor do I know what Kolb uses. I bought a new main tube from Kolb a few years ago, and don't recall what I paid.
Bill Sullivan
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 10/29/16, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> wrote:
Subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Saturday, October 29, 2016, 12:55 PM
Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
Wonder what quantity has to be bought..and what alloy?
Cannot be 500
plus dollars for 20 feet! That would be a whole lot of
Lettuce !!
some one near by..go over and check
out the dumpster! Herb
|
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Jim Baker
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:42 pm Post subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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6061-T6
Jim Baker
405 426 5377
--
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:14 pm Post subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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Betting that it is the same stuff as our spars and boom tubes are made
from...
Used...scratch and dent? ...might stay away from that...dollar and
forty cents a foot.. so new must be on the order of 2 to 3 bucks a
foot...!! Herb
On 10/29/2016 03:36 PM, Charlie England wrote:
| Quote: | I don't know what alloy it is, but it makes a great one piece
hangar/shop door. 10' tall, 30' wide; counterbalanced for manual
operation.
If your state publishes an agricultural newsletter, look there for
deals on used irrigation tubing.
Charlie
On 10/29/2016 12:51 PM, william sullivan wrote:
>
> <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>
>
> Herb- I don't see what alloy this stuff is made from, nor do I
> know what Kolb uses. I bought a new main tube from Kolb a few years
> ago, and don't recall what I paid.
>
> Bill Sullivan
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 10/29/16, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing
> To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, October 29, 2016, 12:55 PM
>
> Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com>
> Wonder what quantity has to be bought..and what alloy?
> Cannot be 500
> plus dollars for 20 feet! That would be a whole lot of
> Lettuce !!
> some one near by..go over and check
> out the dumpster! Herb
>
|
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
"Daddy, tell me...why are you going to the pig farm for a reeducation and what does it mean "A basket of deplorables"? "Are you unreedemable"? And" who is Stalin and Mao Zedong"? Mark Twain's GGgranddaughter...
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:17 pm Post subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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Very surprised...irrigation tubing does not need to be a quality
alloy...I am pretty sure I heard that the spars and boom tubes were 6063
or something near that alloy...Herb
On 10/29/2016 04:41 PM, Jim Baker wrote:
[quote]
6061-T6
Jim Baker
405 426 5377
--
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Jim Baker
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:22 pm Post subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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Pretty sure Kolbs are 6061. Center pivot irrigation stuff is generally marine grade 5052-H38 in extra thick wall types. Way too heavy for our applications.
Jim Baker
405.426.5377
--
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:46 pm Post subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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The sites showed some thin wall stuff... same as Kolb....058 and .051
or 052. as I recall...Kolb uses 6061 T6 tubing exclusively...but I do
not think the spars and boom are? 6063 is not as strong...certainly... Herb
On 10/29/2016 10:22 PM, jimbaker(at)npacc.net wrote:
[quote]
Pretty sure Kolbs are 6061. Center pivot irrigation stuff is generally marine grade 5052-H38 in extra thick wall types. Way too heavy for our applications.
Jim Baker
405.426.5377
--
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brubakermal(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:42 am Post subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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SO a irrigation tube or3 would make For a good door beam frame in the pivot and lift style?
Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker
Michigan Sport Pilot Repair
http://michigansportpilotrepair.com
LSRM-A, PPC, WS
Great Sails - Sailmaker
for Ultralight & Light Sport
(989)513-3022
On Sunday, October 30, 2016 12:53 AM, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>
The sites showed some thin wall stuff... same as Kolb....058 and .051
or 052. as I recall...Kolb uses 6061 T6 tubing exclusively...but I do
not think the spars and boom are? 6063 is not as strong...certainly... Herb
On 10/29/2016 10:22 PM, jimbaker(at)npacc.net (jimbaker(at)npacc.net) wrote:
[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: jimbaker(at)npacc.net (jimbaker(at)npacc.net)
Pretty sure Kolbs are 6061. Center pivot irrigation stuff is generally marine grade 5052-H38 in extra thick wall types. Way too heavy for our applications.
Jim Baker
405.426.5377
--
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Jim Baker
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:09 am Post subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5052_aluminium_alloy
If you're looking for strength and weldability, as long as you can verify the alloy series, 5052 should work well in a structural setting.
Jim Baker
405 426 5377
--
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victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:05 pm Post subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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Anyone who is suggesting the use of industrial, irrigation, or plumbing parts as a straight-across substitute for the materials thatw ere specified in the original engineering DAMN well better have the engineering ability and qualifications to back it up.
The person suggesting 5052 as an equivalent material... can you provide the engineering basis or qualifications for making that statement please? If my suspicions are correct (maybe yes, maybe no), I need to nip this in the bud right here and now.
There is no need for any welding on the Kolb spars or fuselage tube, so a "weldable" alloy has no advantage whatsoever. "Durable" is also a very misleading term. Pure aluminium (1100 series) is "durable" because it is highly corrosion resistant. It also has very very little strength, stiffness, and load-carrying ability. So if you build an airplane out of any old "durable" materials, your wing spar could break, but the broken piece would be nice and shiny and rust-free for the funeral. 7075 alloy (develkoped for the B-29 bomber in WW2) is not very resistant to corrosion, but it is the strongest of the normal aluminum alloys. So you have to take better care of it corrosion wise, but you will have a wing spar that can take a LOT more G loads before breaking, and causing the funeral. I don't know about any of you guys, but I've been to way too many !(#*$ funerals in aviation,and if I can prevent one more needless funeral by opening up my great big mouth here then I sure as heck
will.
An average non-engineer homebuilder (like me) CANNOT make decisions to substitute materials in the majority of cases. There are some of us with some amount of experience, who may have have learned anough from the real engineers to make a few basic decisions conservatively. But not for wing spars and fuselage tailbooms.
As a GENERAL rule in aviation, you can USUALLY substitute 2024-T3 for 6061-T6 and have higher strength and equal stiffness. But there are even plenty of exceptions to this, because you cannot weld 2024-T3 very well. So if you are welding, you are usually stuck with the 6061. When you weld it you lose the majority of the stiffness (resistance to bending under load), and you essentially have a casting instead of a heat treated material.
You CANNOT substitute 6061 for 2024, you lose strength. I also believe you cannot substitute 5052 for 6061, because you lose strength. You cannot substitute 2024 for 7075, because 7075 is quite a bit stronger/stiffer than even 2024 "airplane" alloy.
Again, I am not a trained aircraft structures engineer. But substituting 5052 for 6061 or 6063 alloy SEEMS to be wrong to me. Any real, trained strctural engineers here on this forum can feel free to correct me.
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Rex Rodebush
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 209
Location: Branson West area, Missouri
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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Here's an idea. Call Brian at TNK and order the tubing you want. I know we all want to save money. However, paying a little more to support TNK and get tubing that works seems like a reasonable thing to me.
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Jim Baker
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:38 pm Post subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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Simply this.... Was the person making the enquiry asking about aluminum suitable for a non-aircraft structural use or not? I didn't see any mention of aircraft structural use. There was no suggestion that any other material grade should be used as such. Jim Baker [url=tel:4054265377]405 426 5377[/url]--
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Jim Baker
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:42 pm Post subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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Yer wraped around the axle for no reason. The initial conversation was about alum tubing suitable for a hangar/hangar door, not for an aircraft.
Geez.
Jim Baker
405 426 5377
--
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:40 pm Post subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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Thanks for posting your comments below, Rex.
Folks, the only thing that keeps Kolb Aircraft alive is us few that still support them. They are an extremely small company with shallow pockets. What they have, parts to keep our aging aircraft alive, will disappear if they do not continue to stay in business.
Support Kolb Aircraft.
Besides, you won't meet finer folks anywhere.
john h
mkIII
El Centro, California
---- Rex Rodebush <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Here's an idea. Call Brian at TNK and order the tubing you want. I know we all want to save money. However, paying a little more to support TNK and get tubing that works seems like a reasonable thing to me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=461745#461745
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:50 pm Post subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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...I am pretty sure I heard that the spars and boom tubes were 6063 or something near that alloy...Herb
Herb/Kolbers:
5 and 6 inch booms and spars are drawn for irrigation pipe. They are 6061 T-6 .058" wall.
Biggest problem for Kolb is finding tubes that do not have dents and scratches. That tubing is not handled with kid gloves once it is manufactured. I remember the Kolb Gang going to the factory and going through many, many tubes to find the "good" ones.
The 6061 is probably used for circle irrigation systems because of the increased strength required to keep the system together. The "el cheapo" non-spec'd tubing is probably used for systems that are laid out on the ground and not mobile.
john h
mkIII
El Centro, California
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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Rex Rodebush
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 209
Location: Branson West area, Missouri
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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Didn't pick up that the tubing was for a garage door. Not sure what a garage door has to do with Kolb aircraft.
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:21 pm Post subject: 5 and 6 inch tubing |
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I went to the barn and looked at all of my 5 inch tubes that I bought
from Kolb many years back..they had a trailer full of scratch and
dents..None had the typical rolled on alloy identification.
.Travis explained that they were perfectly good but if they sent a
spar or boom to a customer, it had to be perfect...so..I bought quite a
few of them.. Stayed away from scratches and bought those with small dents..
dollar a foot...wish I had bought more.. By the way...I have a good
set of Firefly spars...I went with single lift struts,ala firestar, on
my first Firefly...unfortunately...all the holes are drilled for the
ribs...no extra charge...
6061 T6 it is...!!
who would have thought...25 or so dollars a foot!! Herb
On 10/30/2016 06:50 PM, jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com wrote:
| Quote: |
...I am pretty sure I heard that the spars and boom tubes were 6063 or something near that alloy...Herb
Herb/Kolbers:
5 and 6 inch booms and spars are drawn for irrigation pipe. They are 6061 T-6 .058" wall.
Biggest problem for Kolb is finding tubes that do not have dents and scratches. That tubing is not handled with kid gloves once it is manufactured. I remember the Kolb Gang going to the factory and going through many, many tubes to find the "good" ones.
The 6061 is probably used for circle irrigation systems because of the increased strength required to keep the system together. The "el cheapo" non-spec'd tubing is probably used for systems that are laid out on the ground and not mobile.
john h
mkIII
El Centro, California
|
--
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny."
Aristotle
"Daddy, tell me...why are you going to the pig farm for a reeducation and what does it mean "A basket of deplorables"? "Are you unreedemable"? And" who is Stalin and Mao Zedong"? Mark Twain's GGgranddaughter...
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