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Gross Weight of TR-1?

 
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pastormac62



Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 71
Location: Indiana
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:04 am    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
Hi Guys,
I have gotten conflicting information on my gross weight of my TR-1? Does anyone know if it's 1,400 or 1,450? I have a Lycoming 235 L2C tri gear.
Thanks!!
Steve McIntosh

Quote:
On Dec 17, 2016, at 3:01 AM, KIS-List Digest Server <kis-list(at)matronics.com> wrote:

*

==================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
==================================================

Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.

HTML Version:

http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 16-12-16&Archive=KIS

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KIS-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 12/16/16: 1
----------------------------------------------------------


Today's Message Index:
----------------------

1. 07:07 AM - Airport Courtesy Cars App Closing? (gbrasch)



________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________


Time: 07:07:03 AM PST US
Subject: Airport Courtesy Cars App Closing?
From: "gbrasch" <gmbrasch(at)gmail.com>


IMPORTANT! If you are a user of the app version of Airport Courtesy Cars, please
view it for an important message about the possible closure of the app, or view
the page here:

https://www.airportcourtesycars.com/app-status.html

--------
Glenn Brasch
RV-9A Flying
Medevac Helicopter Pilot (Ret)
Owner, &quot;Airport Courtesy Cars&quot; Smart Phone App
and www.airportcourtesycars.com


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463989#463989










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ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:19 pm    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
I believe it can be what the builder assigned to it. I extended my fuel
tanks to 20 gal each side and Vance Jaqua (TRI R engineer) did my weight and
balance and upped my gross to #1500. I believe there is one with #1550.

The published GW was #1200 with the 80HP Limbach, #1450 with the Cont.
IO-240 and the 118 Lyc. Some are flying with O320's and I expect they are
more.

Tim

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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:20 pm    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
FWIW: according to the original KIS aircraft sales brochure, with the Lycoming O-235 the max gross weigh of a TR-1 is 1,400lbs. But then the same document states the MGW of a KIS4 with an O-360 is 2,300lbs but Rich specifically told me it should be 2,500lbs.
You can download a copy of the original sales brochure at:
http://puertoricoflyer.com/Files/KIS%20Builders%20Manual/KIS%20Sport%20Aircraft%20Sales%20Brochure.pdf
Legally, the MGW is set to whatever the builder believes, but it can be changed with modifications to the original build. YMMV
 
On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 11:04 AM, pastormac <pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> KIS-List message posted by: pastormac <pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)>

Hi Guys,
I have gotten conflicting information on my gross weight of my TR-1?  Does anyone know if it's 1,400 or 1,450?  I have a Lycoming 235 L2C tri gear.
Thanks!!
Steve McIntosh

> On Dec 17, 2016, at 3:01 AM, KIS-List Digest Server <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> wrote:
>
> *
>
> ==================================================
>   Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below.  The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation.  The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>    http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2016-12-16&Archive=KIS
>
> Text Version:
>
>    http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2016-12-16&Archive=KIS
>
>
> ================================================
>   EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
>           ----------------------------------------------------------
>                           KIS-List Digest Archive
>                                      ---
>                     Total Messages Posted Fri 12/16/16: 1
>           ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
>     1. 07:07 AM - Airport Courtesy Cars App Closing?  (gbrasch)
>
>
>
> ________________________________  Message 1  _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:07:03 AM PST US
> Subject: Airport Courtesy Cars App Closing?
> From: "gbrasch" <gmbrasch(at)gmail.com (gmbrasch(at)gmail.com)>
>
>
> IMPORTANT! If you are a user of the app version of Airport Courtesy Cars, please
> view it for an important message about the possible closure of the app, or view
> the page here:
>
> https://www.airportcourtesycars.com/app-status.html
>
> --------
> Glenn Brasch
> RV-9A Flying
> Medevac Helicopter Pilot (Ret)
> Owner, &quot;Airport Courtesy Cars&quot; Smart Phone App
> and www.airportcourtesycars.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463989#463989
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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pastormac62



Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 71
Location: Indiana
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:43 am    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
Thank you! After repainting the plane and a new weight an balance, when I fly solo I'm having to place 30 lbs behind the seat in baggage area to have the proper weight distribution. I have 15 gal tanks in each wing and can only fly with 10 gal in each. Is this common? I weigh 195. My wife flys with me we can have 10 in each tank and 25 baggage she weighs 135. Just the way the numbers came out.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 17, 2016, at 9:19 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
FWIW: according to the original KIS aircraft sales brochure, with the Lycoming O-235 the max gross weigh of a TR-1 is 1,400lbs. But then thesame document states the MGW of a KIS4 with an O-360 is 2,300lbs but Rich specifically told me it should be 2,500lbs.
You can download a copy of the original sales brochure at:
http://puertoricoflyer.com/Files/KIS%20Builders%20Manual/KIS%20Sport%20Aircraft%20Sales%20Brochure.pdf
Legally, the MGW is set to whatever the builder believes, but it can be changed with modifications to the original build. YMMV

On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 11:04 AM, pastormac <pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> KIS-List message posted by: pastormac <pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)>

Hi Guys,
I have gotten conflicting information on my gross weight of my TR-1? Does anyone know if it's 1,400 or 1,450? I have a Lycoming 235 L2C tri gear.
Thanks!!
Steve McIntosh

> On Dec 17, 2016, at 3:01 AM, KIS-List Digest Server <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)> wrote:
>
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete KIS-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the KIS-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2016-12-16&Archive=KIS
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2016-12-16&Archive=KIS
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> KIS-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 12/16/16: 1
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 07:07 AM - Airport Courtesy Cars App Closing? (gbrasch)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:07:03 AM PST US
> Subject: Airport Courtesy Cars App Closing?
> From: "gbrasch" <gmbrasch(at)gmail.com (gmbrasch(at)gmail.com)>
>
>
> IMPORTANT! If you are a user of the app version of Airport Courtesy Cars, please
> view it for an important message about the possible closure of the app, or view
> the page here:
>
> https://www.airportcourtesycars.com/app-status.html
>
> --------
> Glenn Brasch
> RV-9A Flying
> Medevac Helicopter Pilot (Ret)
> Owner, &quot;Airport Courtesy Cars&quot; Smart Phone App
> and www.airportcourtesycars.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463989#463989
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


====================================
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" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.mrrace.com
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====================================







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gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:23 am    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
Hi Steve,
Just about the best authority on our TR-1's and TR-4's is Mark Trickel who is AWOL at present ... !! ... anybody know where/why he has been absent lately ??
Anyway just my 2 Cents worth ... I have a TR-1 .. i am not the builder .. it is Subaru Powered .. The official W(at)B that was generated for my Plane at the point of the Airworthy and Registration Shows MTOW of 1550 lbs . Empty Weight is 1026 lbs . Two Batteries are mounted in the aft Tail Fuselage cone .
I only have the 30 gl (15+15 ) Fuel capacity .
I weigh 155lbs
BUT .. My W&B is very hard to exceed ! ... I have Run the W&B for most loading situations ... Full Fuel plus Plt&Pax and Max Baggage(30lbs) and Empty Fuel and Single Plt and no this, and no that and max this and max that ..... and i still stay in the Envelope and never have to use Ballast .. FWD CG Limit 61.00" and Aft Limit 65.00 "
So ... probably not much help to you ... just saying what my TR-1 W&B is like .. ( which is great ! )
Cheers,
Graham

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:55 am    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
FWIW I got this e-Mal from Mark T. back in October:

*Hello Galin, Sorry for my absence but earlier this year my computer died
and when I finally figured out it could not be fixed I bought a tablet. So
I am still learning how to used it but probably should have bought another
computer.*

*I have been working on the KIS, and have replaced many structural lay ups.
And I want to tell you there is nothing worse that grinding and sanding off
old bad fiberglass. I am on my second dremel tool! I am starting to put
things back on the plane, I just set the center consul sides in place and
got the flap torque tubes back in place and working better than they were
before. I narrowed the center consul a quarter of and inch. I patched up a
huge hole in the firewall and one on the forward fuse floor about 17 inches
wide by 8 inches back from the firewall. Almost all rear spar lay ups were
replaced and hard points added for seat belts, the original builder omitted
them! Some main spar box lay ups were replaced. I am going to get as much
glassing done before winter as I can.*

*I have been getting a few inquiries about the KIS airplanes in general.
The interest comes from my website and the information that I hand out at
the airshows.*

*I had one guy asking me about Sid Bravo's TR-1. I did not know the
airplane was for sale and the guy kept referring to is as N526BR and I did
not recognize the airplane until he sent me a picture of it and I knew
right away who's airplane it was. I told him that was a nice plane and I
was sure pretty sure Sid has more in it than he is asking for it, the
Garmin stuff installed was probably 13 grand or more alone! He is asking
35,000.*

*Another congratulations goes out to you on your mid west cross country.
The pics of Kent and Ed are priceless. I'll miss Kent we saw him at 3
oshkosh's. I was born in Missouri and i know Kent is one of the good ol'
boys.*

*I stopped and met Ed at his hanger a couple years back. My family used to
live in that area, it was a really nostalgic experience. Ed even knows a
guy that owned a car paint shop that Rich used to work for. I remember Rich
taking me to the shop in his car and mom almost killed him for taking me
along! But that is were he honed his painting skills and obtained gift of
shaping things like airplanes. Did you sign Ed's guest book at the hanger?*

*If you might be thinking about another such run there is about 7 KIS
aircraft in Arizona ànd a flying TR-4 in western Texas, oh and a few in
Southern Califorina.*

*Oshkosh was really cool this year. Mark's engines are gaining a following,
people are watching what he is doing and every year he has more engine
stuff. He brought Ted McLams TR-1 that he had at SNF. People recognize the
design. I had so many people stopping by praising Rich and all he had done.
One afternoon I was sitting in a chair next to the KIS and the guy yells a
cross to me from the other side of the plane, If I didn't know any better
l'd think you were Rich Trickel. I replied well I'm Rich's brother is that
close enough? That turned out to be Wayne Gifford the first to build and
fly both TR-1 and TR -4 in his late 80s. Had another guy, comes up and
shows me a few pics of a beautiful Lancair. He bought the Kit and met Rich
when he picked it up at the shop. They became good friend's and Rich helped
him out on some of the build. It took home 16 years to finish but he
finished it and is still flying it. I think one of the best experiences is
when this guy Chuck Prezton from Kitplanes stops by and is asking me all
about the KIS and what we were doing, he told me he knew Rich a for years
and knew the many projects he did, and the reputation he had, he handed me
his card and says if I ever need anything for KIS to let him know. Another
good one was, I get this phone call it's Elden Lorha he could not find us
but was only just around the corner. He had a great time talking to us
about the KIS and his KIS. ELDEN is 89 and I really get the feeling he's
thinking about that medicàl going away hmmmm. I know he wants the fly it.*

*I am getting ready to post on the forum for the guy in Indiana looking for
KIS guys near him. There are a couple others nearby Wally Clingan tr1 has a
new owner John Baker and George Moore in Michigan.*

*I hope all is well down your way and you made it through the storm OK.*

*Regards, MT*

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 4:22 AM, Graham Brighton <gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au>
wrote:

[quote] Hi Steve,
Just about the best authority on our TR-1's and TR-4's is
Mark Trickel who is AWOL at present ... !! ... anybody know where/why he
has been absent lately ??
Anyway just my 2 Cents worth ... I have a TR-1 .. i am not the builder ..

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mark_trickel



Joined: 13 Dec 2011
Posts: 101
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
To the community sorry for my absence, suffering computer issues.

Hello Steve, congratulations on getting your KIS back flying.

The maximum gross weight for the KIS TR-1 is 1600 lbs. At this weight the basic airframe remains in the Normal catagory as stated in the FARs Part 23. That said, the weak link is the main gear, and for that the gross weight at landing should be 1450 lbs or less. So in other words the extra weight would be in fuel to be burned off before landing. That is not to say you cannot land at a heavier weight, your margin of safty is just less. Plus I hear the main gear will flex a hellin.

Your need to have 30 pounds in the baggage is goofy. Something is not right. The third owner of your airplane added the later nose gear, and I suspect that the addition may have not been sorted out correctly. The new gear is much heavier then the orginal.

Another issue with your airplane maybe the position of the main gear. If the the weight and balance indicates more than 20% of the weight on the nose gear you might want to address this. Many KIS owners have canted the main gear forward with flox wedges added at the gear attachment points and found improved handling in ground effect during the transion to touch down.

Our resident engineers are the KIS experts I only highly endorse their findings.

MT

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:37 am    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
This makes total sense. I have flown several certified aircraft that have a higher Max Gross Weight (MGW) than their Max Landing Weight (MLW). If you takeoff at MGW you have to burn enough fuel to land below MLW. If you don't then an overweight landing inspection must be done.
Rich told me the MGW of the KIS4 should be 2,500Lbs but I use the 2,300Lbs specified in the sales brochure as my MLW. I don't have an issue with the CG in my airplane.  YMMV
On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:03 AM, mark_trickel <marktrickel(at)gmail.com (marktrickel(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> KIS-List message posted by: "mark_trickel" <marktrickel(at)gmail.com (marktrickel(at)gmail.com)>

To the community sorry for my absence, suffering computer issues.

Hello Steve, congratulations on getting your KIS back flying.

The maximum gross weight for the KIS TR-1 is 1600 lbs. At this weight the basic airframe remains in the Normal catagory as stated in the FARs Part 23. That said, the weak link is the main gear, and for that the gross weight at landing should be 1450 lbs or less. So in other words the extra weight would be in fuel to be burned off before landing. That is not to say you cannot land at a heavier weight, your margin of safty is just less. Plus I hear the main gear will flex a hellin.

Your need to have 30 pounds in the baggage is goofy. Something is not right. The third owner of your airplane added the later nose gear, and I suspect that the addition may have not been sorted out correctly. The new gear is much heavier then the orginal.

Another issue with your airplane maybe the position of the main gear. If the the weight and balance indicates more than 20% of the weight on the nose gear you might want to address this. Many KIS owners have canted the main gear forward with flox wedges added at the gear attachment points and found improved handling in ground effect during the transion to touch down.

Our resident engineers are the KIS experts I only highly endorse their findings.

MT




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=464178#464178






====================================
br> fts!)
r> > com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.aeroelectric.com
w.buildersbooks.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.buildersbooks.com
p.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.homebuilthelp.com
e.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.mypilotstore.com
" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">www.mrrace.com
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====================================
List" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
====================================
FORUMS -
_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
WIKI -
lank" rel="noreferrer">http://wiki.matronics.com
====================================
b Site -
          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================





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gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.
Guest
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:17 am    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
Ok MT,
Glad u were only Plane Busy .. Wink

--------------------------------------------------
From: "mark_trickel" <marktrickel(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 2:03 AM
To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Gross Weight of TR-1?

Quote:


To the community sorry for my absence, suffering computer issues.

Hello Steve, congratulations on getting your KIS back flying.

The maximum gross weight for the KIS TR-1 is 1600 lbs. At this weight the
basic airframe remains in the Normal catagory as stated in the FARs Part
23. That said, the weak link is the main gear, and for that the gross
weight at landing should be 1450 lbs or less. So in other words the extra
weight would be in fuel to be burned off before landing. That is not to
say you cannot land at a heavier weight, your margin of safty is just
less. Plus I hear the main gear will flex a hellin.

Your need to have 30 pounds in the baggage is goofy. Something is not
right. The third owner of your airplane added the later nose gear, and I
suspect that the addition may have not been sorted out correctly. The new
gear is much heavier then the orginal.

Another issue with your airplane maybe the position of the main gear. If
the the weight and balance indicates more than 20% of the weight on the
nose gear you might want to address this. Many KIS owners have canted the
main gear forward with flox wedges added at the gear attachment points and
found improved handling in ground effect during the transion to touch
down.

Our resident engineers are the KIS experts I only highly endorse their
findings.

MT


Read this topic online here:

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Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
Guest
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:28 am    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
Steve

flying solo with 30Lbs in the back when solo , doesn't make a lot of sense
on a TR-1 , it should be possible by repositioning the battery to get a
much better C oF G all round , my battery is located directly behind the
copilots seat which results in a empty Cof G at STA 58.75 ( Cof G must be
in range STA 61.5 to STA 65.6) . With the empty Cof G at 58.75 its almost
impossible to exceed the forward C of G solo. ( Pilot weight is located at
STA 80 in my TR-1 as measured and calculated from the weighing scales ).
depending on your empty Cof G i would seriously consider moving the battery
further back

(With an Io240 B engine max take off is 1450lbs).
Keith

From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 12/18/2016 04:44 PM
Subject: Re: Gross Weight of TR-1?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com

Thank you! After repainting the plane and a new weight an balance, when I
fly solo I'm having to place 30 lbs behind the seat in baggage area to have
the proper weight distribution. I have 15 gal tanks in each wing and can
only fly with 10 gal in each. Is this common? I weigh 195. My wife flys with
me we can have 10 in each tank and 25 baggage she weighs 135. Just the way
the numbers came out.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 17, 2016, at 9:19 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com> wrote:

FWIW: according to the original KIS aircraft sales brochure, with the
Lycoming O-235 the max gross weigh of a TR-1 is 1,400lbs. But then the
same document states the MGW of a KIS4 with an O-360 is 2,300lbs but
Rich specifically told me it should be 2,500lbs.

You can download a copy of the original sales brochure at:

http://puertoricoflyer.com/Files/KIS%20Builders%20Manual/KIS%20Sport%20Aircraft%20Sales%20Brochure.pdf

Legally, the MGW is set to whatever the builder believes, but it can be
changed with modifications to the original build. YMMV

On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 11:04 AM, pastormac <pastormac(at)comcast.net>
wrote:


Hi Guys,
I have gotten conflicting information on my gross weight of my TR-1?
Does anyone know if it's 1,400 or 1,450? I have a Lycoming 235 L2C
tri gear.
Thanks!!
Steve McIntosh

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pastormac62



Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 71
Location: Indiana
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:55 pm    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
Hi Keith,
Thanks for the reply! My battery is located behind the passenger seat and still was told to fly with 30 lbs in the area when flying solo.
Steve

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Dec 20, 2016, at 7:28 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:



Steve

flying solo with 30Lbs in the back when solo , doesn't make a lot of sense
on a TR-1 , it should be possible by repositioning the battery to get a
much better C oF G all round , my battery is located directly behind the
copilots seat which results in a empty Cof G at STA 58.75 ( Cof G must be
in range STA 61.5 to STA 65.6) . With the empty Cof G at 58.75 its almost
impossible to exceed the forward C of G solo. ( Pilot weight is located at
STA 80 in my TR-1 as measured and calculated from the weighing scales ).
depending on your empty Cof G i would seriously consider moving the battery
further back

(With an Io240 B engine max take off is 1450lbs).


Keith



From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 12/18/2016 04:44 PM
Subject: Re: Gross Weight of TR-1?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com



Thank you! After repainting the plane and a new weight an balance, when I
fly solo I'm having to place 30 lbs behind the seat in baggage area to have
the proper weight distribution. I have 15 gal tanks in each wing and can
only fly with 10 gal in each. Is this common? I weigh 195. My wife flys with
me we can have 10 in each tank and 25 baggage she weighs 135. Just the way
the numbers came out.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 17, 2016, at 9:19 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com> wrote:



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wschertz343(at)gmail.com
Guest
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:26 am    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
Steve,
Have you had the plane reweighed, so that you can calculate the CG freshly,
if not I recommend it. Who was the original builder of the plane?
Bill Schertz
TR-4 # 4045
N343BS

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pastormac62



Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 71
Location: Indiana
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:39 am    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
Hi Bill,
Richard Kindig was the original builder. Yes, I'm working on it getting weighted again.
Thank you!!

Sent from my iPhone

[quote] On Dec 21, 2016, at 10:24 AM, Bill Schertz <wschertz343(at)gmail.com> wrote:



Steve,
Have you had the plane reweighed, so that you can calculate the CG freshly, if not I recommend it. Who was the original builder of the plane?
Bill Schertz
TR-4 # 4045
N343BS

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bakerocb



Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:46 am    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
12/22/2016

Hello Steve McIntosh, You wrote:

1) “Thanks so much for your input!”

You are welcome.

2) “Your thoughts on both of those suggestions??”

See the following:

3) “I have a prop balancer installed.” and “I'm thinking about removing it.”

First some clarification about terminology. A dynamic, versus a static, propeller balancer is a device like this:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/dynavibegx.php

What you probably have installed is a 12 pound Mark Landoll propeller harmonic dampener. See here:

http://www.geocities.ws/redrive_psru/HarmonicBalancer.html

I suggest that you google this item to learn more about it – don’t take the word of one web site as gospel.

Second, I would not remove your harmonic dampener just yet – that is sort of throwing darts at a problem that we don’t really understand yet.

4) “My battery, (a garden tractor variety) is located right behind the co pilots seat. I could move it back some and that may help as well?? “

I would buy an Odyssey PC 680 battery and place it in the far back right corner of the baggage compartment. See here:

http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html

OC

======================

From: pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:08 AM
To: Owen Baker (bakerocb(at)cox.net)
Subject: Re: Gross Weight of TR-1?


Thanks so much for your input! I appreciate it. All good questions. I have a prop balancer installed. It came on the plane when I purchased it. I'm thinking about removing it. That should free up some weight over the nose.
My battery, (a garden tractor variety) is located right behind the co pilots seat. I could move it back some and that may help as well??
Your thoughts on both of those suggestions??

Sent from my iPhone

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bakerocb



Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:24 am    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
12/22/2016

Hello Graham, You wrote: “Thats bit over 38% on my Nose Wheel !!”

I believe that a more acceptable criteria to be used for determining the percentage of airplane weight on the nose gear is to use the total airplane empty weight in the calculation.

In your case that would be 285 divided by 1026 which would yield a percentage of 27.8 percent of the total airplane empty weight being statically supported by the nose gear.

In my case it is 242 divided by 972 which yields a percentage of 24.8. So both of our numbers are in the same ball park.

Agree?

OC

==============================================

From: Graham Brighton (gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au)
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 5:47 AM
To: Owen Baker (bakerocb(at)cox.net)
Subject: Re: Gross Weight of TR-1?


Howd'y OC ,
Yep, think u are onto something there below ... , just throwing in my numbers to maybe add to the confusion . Going from my Builders W&B Document i have 285lbs on the Nose Wheel ( creak/groan ) and Mains together ( individual mains wheel weight not shown ) i have 741 lbs ... ( Total Empty weight 1026 lbs )
Thats bit over 38% on my Nose Wheel !!


Cheers,
Graham

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bakerocb



Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:18 pm    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
12/22/2016

Hello Steve, You wrote: “Just trying to figure how to securely mount it further back??

The Odyssey PC 680 is an AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) type of VRLA (Valve Regulated Lead Acid) battery so it does not require a sealed battery box nor a vent to the outside of the airplane. See here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA_battery

But it does require mounting so that it can not come loose and rattle around the airplane. The terminal connections also should be protected in the baggage compartment from any metal contact that could short out the battery.

I epoxied some very sturdy slotted aluminum brackets into my baggage compartment. Then used a combination of plywood and non adhesive 2 inch wide Velcro brand hook and loop tape to strap the battery into place. See here:

http://www.fastenation.com/products/velcro-brand-fasteners/sew-on-fasteners/velcror-brand-polyester-hook-loop-sew-on-tape.html

I know that many people have a low opinion of the holding power of hook and loop tape. I am also aware that the FAA recommended replacing Velcro style fasteners for ELT’s. See here:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2015/march/11/faa-recommends-replacing-velcro-style-elt-fasteners

But I would like to emphasize these points:

1) This is not adhesive backed tape and there is no dependency upon tape adhesive for any holding power in my installation.

2) The tape is looped back upon itself so that there is no dependency upon the hooks and loops not separating for any holding power in my installation. The tape itself would have to tear before the battery could move.

3) There are multiple loops of tape in both directions over the plywood surrounding the battery so that it would take an extreme amount of force to tear the multiple loops of tape.

4) The installation is both light in weight and provides ready access to the battery.

OC

PS: Make sure that you take into consideration your wiring needs (large enough gauge) when planning any move of the battery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

=========================================

From: pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 10:32 AM
To: Owen Baker (bakerocb(at)cox.net)
Subject: Re: Gross Weight of TR-1?


Hi Owen,
Yes, I have the Landoll harmonic prop balancer. There is wood pieces glued down behind the co pilots seat that hold the garden battery secure. I will look at purchasing the other battery. Just trying to figure how to securely mount it further back?
Steve

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gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.
Guest
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:45 pm    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
Hi OC, OK that sounds better ; )


From: Owen Baker (bakerocb(at)cox.net)
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2016 6:22 AM
To: Graham Brighton (gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au) ; KIS-LIST MATRONICS (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Gross Weight of TR-1?


12/22/2016

Hello Graham, You wrote: “Thats bit over 38% on my Nose Wheel !!”

I believe that a more acceptable criteria to be used for determining the percentage of airplane weight on the nose gear is to use the total airplane empty weight in the calculation.

In your case that would be 285 divided by 1026 which would yield a percentage of 27.8 percent of the total airplane empty weight being statically supported by the nose gear.

In my case it is 242 divided by 972 which yields a percentage of 24.8. So both of our numbers are in the same ball park.

Agree?

OC

==============================================

From: Graham Brighton (gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au)
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 5:47 AM
To: Owen Baker (bakerocb(at)cox.net)
Subject: Re: Gross Weight of TR-1?


Howd'y OC ,
Yep, think u are onto something there below ... , just throwing in my numbers to maybe add to the confusion . Going from my Builders W&B Document i have 285lbs on the Nose Wheel ( creak/groan ) and Mains together ( individual mains wheel weight not shown ) i have 741 lbs ... ( Total Empty weight 1026 lbs )
Thats bit over 38% on my Nose Wheel !!


Cheers,
Graham




No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4739/13635 - Release Date: 12/22/16

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gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.
Guest
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:15 pm    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
Hi OC, Opps .. Ok that sounds better .. : )


From: Owen Baker (bakerocb(at)cox.net)
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2016 6:22 AM
To: Graham Brighton (gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au) ; KIS-LIST MATRONICS (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Gross Weight of TR-1?


12/22/2016

Hello Graham, You wrote: “Thats bit over 38% on my Nose Wheel !!”

I believe that a more acceptable criteria to be used for determining the percentage of airplane weight on the nose gear is to use the total airplane empty weight in the calculation.

In your case that would be 285 divided by 1026 which would yield a percentage of 27.8 percent of the total airplane empty weight being statically supported by the nose gear.

In my case it is 242 divided by 972 which yields a percentage of 24.8. So both of our numbers are in the same ball park.

Agree?

OC

==============================================

From: Graham Brighton (gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au)
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 5:47 AM
To: Owen Baker (bakerocb(at)cox.net)
Subject: Re: Gross Weight of TR-1?


Howd'y OC ,
Yep, think u are onto something there below ... , just throwing in my numbers to maybe add to the confusion . Going from my Builders W&B Document i have 285lbs on the Nose Wheel ( creak/groan ) and Mains together ( individual mains wheel weight not shown ) i have 741 lbs ... ( Total Empty weight 1026 lbs )
Thats bit over 38% on my Nose Wheel !!


Cheers,
Graham




No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4739/13635 - Release Date: 12/22/16

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Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
Guest
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:10 am    Post subject: Gross Weight of TR-1? Reply with quote
Steve

OC is right. Its best to have a bit of baggage in the back when solo.

I can see from my own calculations that with just me on board ( 150Lbs ) if
I run it completely out of fuel , I could be getting close to the most
forward Cof G, without anything in the back . - luckily for me i always have
a load of junk ( aircraft tie down kit , spare headset, aircraft log books ,
airfield manuals....) in the back.
Keith
From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 12/21/2016 01:56 AM
Subject: Re: Gross Weight of TR-1?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com



Hi Keith,
Thanks for the reply! My battery is located behind the passenger seat and
still was told to fly with 30 lbs in the area when flying solo.
Steve

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Dec 20, 2016, at 7:28 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:



Steve

flying solo with 30Lbs in the back when solo , doesn't make a lot of sense
on a TR-1 , it should be possible by repositioning the battery to get a
much better C oF G all round , my battery is located directly behind the
copilots seat which results in a empty Cof G at STA 58.75 ( Cof G must
be

Quote:
in range STA 61.5 to STA 65.6) . With the empty Cof G at 58.75 its almost
impossible to exceed the forward C of G solo. ( Pilot weight is located
at

Quote:
STA 80 in my TR-1 as measured and calculated from the weighing scales ).
depending on your empty Cof G i would seriously consider moving the
battery

Quote:
further back

(With an Io240 B engine max take off is 1450lbs).
Keith

From: pastormac(at)comcast.net
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 12/18/2016 04:44 PM
Subject: Re: Gross Weight of TR-1?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com

Thank you! After repainting the plane and a new weight an balance, when I
fly solo I'm having to place 30 lbs behind the seat in baggage area to have
the proper weight distribution. I have 15 gal tanks in each wing and can
only fly with 10 gal in each. Is this common? I weigh 195. My wife flys
with

Quote:
me we can have 10 in each tank and 25 baggage she weighs 135. Just the way
the numbers came out.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 17, 2016, at 9:19 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com> wrote:


This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.
Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.

Please consider the environment before printing this email.

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