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jglazener
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 76
Location: Schoonhoven, Netherlands
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 Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:31 am Post subject: CAMLOC Fasteners |
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Getting ready to install the cowlings and looking for a more user friendly solution than the screws provided by Europa.
Camloc fasteners as supplied by Aircraft Spruce (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php?s=CAMLOCK+FASTeNER&x=36&y=1 would appear to be a good option. The choice however is overwhelming and I have no idea what to order for the Europa. I assume that cowling - cowling and cowling - firewall also needs different sizes. Has anyone gone through this exercise before and can tell me exactly which part no's I need? If there are other , better, solutions than Camlocks I am of course open to suggestions!
Thanks,
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Jeroen
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rowlandcarson(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:55 am Post subject: CAMLOC Fasteners |
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On 2017-01-04, at 15:31, jglazener <j.glazener(at)planet.nl> wrote:
| Quote: | Getting ready to install the cowlings and looking for a more user friendly solution than the screws provided by Europa.
Camloc fasteners as supplied by Aircraft Spruce (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php?s=CAMLOCK+FASTeNER&x=36&y=1 would appear to be a good option. The choice however is overwhelming and I have no idea what to order for the Europa. I assume that cowling - cowling and cowling - firewall also needs different sizes. Has anyone gone through this exercise before and can tell me exactly which part no's I need? If there are other , better, solutions than Camlocks I am of course open to suggestions!
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Jeroen - have you looked at the LAA standard mod for this? If not, see “SM10405/1 Cowl attachment with Southco fastners” on:
http://www.theeuropaclub.org/for-builders/europa-mods-sbs/laa-standard-mods/
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:51 am Post subject: CAMLOC Fasteners |
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Hi Jeroen,
I used Mil Spec Production C-2000 Fastening system, which is fully Camlock compatible. allekirjoitus http://www.milspecproducts.com/
Contact them Sorrento, Florida.
Using these is a real and practical safety mod: if you have original screws, you will not open the cowls as often you should.
With C-2000, you can open the cowl(s) in seconds. I have done it around 500 times.
And then you are able to leave those hyperugly inspection hatches off and save building time also!
They are like perforations and facial piercings on the face off a beautiful woman...sorry.
[img]cid:part1.F5589134.AC3C6D56(at)rwm.fi[/img]
[img]cid:part2.F8EFC3E7.000E5602(at)rwm.fi[/img]
(info(at)rwm.fi)
Cheers,
Raimo
OH-XRT #417
Finland
4.1.2017, 17:31, jglazener kirjoitti:
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AirEupora
Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 186
Location: Dixon, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:56 am Post subject: Re: CAMLOC Fasteners |
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Rowland,
I used the Skybolt CLoc 4000 series,
http://skybolt.com/catalog%20pages%20web%2020-36.pdf
There are a number of pitfalls using any camlock style system. The firewall area at the top is not square. This causes head of the camlock to appear cocked. Because of this, they will leak in the rain. I put them only around the base of the cowl or firewall only. I have a piano hinge along the top and bottom of the cowl. If I were to do it again. I'd use the Camlock style locks along the sides too.
I had the greatest problem getting the sizes (lengths) correct. The Skybolt receptacles were poorly designed, but they went back to their old design and it works better now, but you have to have access to them for adjustment. (Getting head flat)
All Camlocks are designed for metal, not fiber glass, so it takes some work to get them to fit correctly. Getting the Grommet's square is the hard part. The Grommet's length is also a problem as the retainer area is to small for the fiberglass and will fall out if the hole is to large. Skylock now offers a CLoc SK400 Oversize or Worn Hole mod. I have not tried them let, but will come spring.
I'd installed the cowling with screws first time. Then once everything is in place, I'd then start installing the camlocks, one at a time. Start with the receptacles on the back side of the firewall. Square them up using resin paste or grinding down the back side face of the firewall. The Skybolt have a small hole in the receptacles that you can use to drill a hole through the cowl. Once you have a hole that is drilled you can drill a larger hole to place the gromment in.
Good luck in whatever system you choose.
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gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:54 am Post subject: CAMLOC Fasteners |
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----------
There are a number of pitfalls using any camlock style system. The
firewall area at the top is not square. This causes head of the camlock to
appear cocked. Because of this, they will leak in the rain.
----------
Interesting problem indeed. Just trying to 'brainstorm' a fix for rain
invasion. Possibly thin rubber washers slid up the body of the camlock to
the back side of the head? Possibly that might provide a seal? Probably
better answers out there than this..
Greg
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:51 am Post subject: CAMLOC Fasteners |
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Greg,
thats true. But only when Europa is standing in the rain, never when flying during the rain!
Wet panel inside and water around the pedals made me a bit nervous!
My solution: - keep always in the hangar during the rain and when this is not possible for example in Fly-Ins, I put nice RWM packing tape one meter
over the "camlocks" (in my case only three [3] of them front of the windshield) when rain is expected . Simple, fast, easy, low-cost and effective.
Of course this is not a professional solution, but it works very well.
You could made a mod preventing water to come, but why in the hell again add some dead weight?
Rubber is good, but lets use it in the bed if really necessary. Hope not!
If I have not cockpit covers omboard, I tape always also a refueling cap. Just in case!
There is a rubber sealing ring but I do not trust it.
"Number of pitfalls" ? Please please report them all!
There are number of pitfalls when not using camlocks or other "fast-remove-cowling-system"!
Please loosen your hat...
Those of you who are building, I highly recommend to make a quick release system at least for the upper cowling.
Those who are flying, just consider to do it.
Just for your safety.
Cheers,
Raimo
OH-XRT #417
Finland
allekirjoitus (info(at)rwm.fi)
6.1.2017, 11:53, Greg Fuchs kirjoitti:
| Quote: | | Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Greg Fuchs " <gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcast.net> (gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcast.net)
----------
There are a number of pitfalls using any camlock style system. The
firewall area at the top is not square. This causes head of the camlock to
appear cocked. Because of this, they will leak in the rain.
----------
Interesting problem indeed. Just trying to 'brainstorm' a fix for rain
invasion. Possibly thin rubber washers slid up the body of the camlock to
the back side of the head? Possibly that might provide a seal? Probably
better answers out there than this..
Greg
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:11 am Post subject: CAMLOC Fasteners |
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Some one I forget whom .... maybe graham or perhaps david had a system whereby the top of the top cowl had no holes at all. The top cowling had fixed pins on the inside of the upper cowling which engage with receivers on the firewall about one inch below the cowling lower surface. This was done precisely to avoid water ingress to the panel area. So you can imagine fitting the upper cowling by sliding it backwards to engage the male pins with the female receptacle on the firewall.
The rest of the cowling (the join with the lower cowling) was fastened with camlocs if Im not wrong.
its hard to describe and Im damned if I can find the picture but this was a discussion on the list around 2014. I thought it was rather an elegant solution which I didnt follow because I want to get flying but I might well retrofit
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi (raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi)> wrote:
| Quote: | Greg,
that´s true. But only when Europa is standing in the rain, never when flying during the rain!
Wet panel inside and water around the pedals made me a bit nervous!
My solution: - keep always in the hangar during the rain and when this is not possible for example in Fly-Ins, I put nice RWM packing tape one meter
over the "camlocks" (in my case only three [3] of them front of the windshield) when rain is expected . Simple, fast, easy, low-cost and effective.
Of course this is not a professional solution, but it works very well.
You could made a mod preventing water to come, but why in the hell again add some dead weight?
Rubber is good, but let´s use it in the bed if really necessary. Hope not!
If I have not cockpit covers omboard, I tape always also a refueling cap. Just in case!
There is a rubber sealing ring but I do not trust it.
"Number of pitfalls" ? Please please report them all!
There are number of pitfalls when not using camlocks or other "fast-remove-cowling-system"!
Please loosen your hat...
Those of you who are building, I highly recommend to make a quick release system at least for the upper cowling.
Those who are flying, just consider to do it.
Just for your safety.
Cheers,
Raimo
OH-XRT #417
Finland
(info(at)rwm.fi)
6.1.2017, 11:53, Greg Fuchs kirjoitti:
| Quote: | | Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Greg Fuchs " <gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcast.net> (gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcast.net)
----------
There are a number of pitfalls using any camlock style system. The
firewall area at the top is not square. This causes head of the camlock to
appear cocked. Because of this, they will leak in the rain.
----------
Interesting problem indeed. Just trying to 'brainstorm' a fix for rain
invasion. Possibly thin rubber washers slid up the body of the camlock to
the back side of the head? Possibly that might provide a seal? Probably
better answers out there than this..
Greg
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gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:23 am Post subject: CAMLOC Fasteners |
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Raimo,
I wouldn't want to use up the worlds rubber on just camloc washers, that might not go over well.
However, I think you are a lucky one to only have leaks at stand still.
Using your idea of tape, I would imagine vinyl tape circles just bigger than the overall camlock area might provide a solution for when it rains, and hopefully it would stay on in flight. Might be unsightly if it doesn't sit flat, and would have to be removed whenever there is a need to access to the cowling. It seems at least a stop-gap solution..and yes lightweight.
Regards and thanks,
Greg A050 XS TRI
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 7:50 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: CAMLOC Fasteners
Greg,
thats true. But only when Europa is standing in the rain, never when flying during the rain!
Wet panel inside and water around the pedals made me a bit nervous!
My solution:- keep always in the hangar during the rain and when this is not possible for example in Fly-Ins, I put nice RWM packing tape one meter
over the "camlocks" (in my case only three [3] of them front of the windshield) when rain is expected . Simple, fast, easy, low-cost and effective.
Of course this is not a professional solution, but it works very well.
You could made a mod preventing water to come, but why in the hell again add some dead weight?
Rubber is good, but lets use it in the bed if really necessary. Hope not!
If I have not cockpit covers omboard, I tape always also a refueling cap. Just in case!
There is a rubber sealing ring but I do not trust it.
"Number of pitfalls" ? Please please report them all!
There are number of pitfalls when not using camlocks or other "fast-remove-cowling-system"!
Please loosen your hat...
Those of you who are building, I highly recommend to make a quick release system at least for the upper cowling.
Those who are flying, just consider to do it.
Just for your safety.
Cheers,
Raimo
OH-XRT #417
Finland
(info(at)rwm.fi)
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:25 am Post subject: CAMLOC Fasteners |
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Will,
Hmm, I looked and looked and somehow couldn't find the entry, much less the picture. Oh well, the fix seems tenable, and plenty of solutions along this idea path could be cooked up.
thanks much,
Greg
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 8:11 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: CAMLOC Fasteners
Some one I forget whom .... maybe graham or perhaps david had a system whereby the top of the top cowl had no holes at all. The top cowling had fixed pins on the inside of the upper cowling which engage with receivers on the firewall about one inch below the cowling lower surface. This was done precisely to avoid water ingress to the panel area. So you can imagine fitting the upper cowling by sliding it backwards to engage the male pins with the female receptacle on the firewall.
The rest of the cowling (the join with the lower cowling) was fastened with camlocs if Im not wrong.
its hard to describe and Im damned if I can find the picture but this was a discussion on the list around 2014. I thought it was rather an elegant solution which I didnt follow because I want to get flying but I might well retrofit
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:54 pm Post subject: CAMLOC Fasteners |
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Ok let me try to hunt it downWill
On Jan 7, 2017 08:31, "Greg Fuchs" <gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcast.net (gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcast.net)> wrote: | Quote: | Will,
Hmm, I looked and looked and somehow couldn't find the entry, much less the picture. Oh well, the fix seems tenable, and plenty of solutions along this idea path could be cooked up.
thanks much,
Greg
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of William Daniell
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 8:11 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: CAMLOC Fasteners
Some one I forget whom .... maybe graham or perhaps david had a system whereby the top of the top cowl had no holes at all. The top cowling had fixed pins on the inside of the upper cowling which engage with receivers on the firewall about one inch below the cowling lower surface. This was done precisely to avoid water ingress to the panel area. So you can imagine fitting the upper cowling by sliding it backwards to engage the male pins with the female receptacle on the firewall.
The rest of the cowling (the join with the lower cowling) was fastened with camlocs if Im not wrong.
its hard to describe and Im damned if I can find the picture but this was a discussion on the list around 2014. I thought it was rather an elegant solution which I didnt follow because I want to get flying but I might well retrofit
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
|
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Fred Klein
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:01 pm Post subject: CAMLOC Fasteners |
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As a consequence of my novel engine installation, I’ve been particularly concerned about easy access to everything under the cowl and have opted for hinging it rather than rely upon the typical, small, access panels. I’d also had some concerns about a de-mounted top cowl being blown about the tarmac.
Notwithstanding the geometrical challenges, I’ve fabricated some spring-loaded, concealed hinges as shown in the pixs, allowing for a total of 6 CAMLOCs to secure the cowl in place.
…
[img]cid:E22B8756-738F-45F7-85FA-D05E12B0DCD2[/img][img]cid:0431251B-3F04-4E3B-AD46-68B7D8C1734B[/img]
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rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:53 am Post subject: CAMLOC Fasteners |
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Fred,
Very nice installation!
Bob
On Jan 12, 2017, at 1:58 PM, Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> wrote:
As a consequence of my novel engine installation, I’ve been particularly concerned about easy access to everything under the cowl and have opted for hinging it rather than rely upon the typical, small, access panels. I’d also had some concerns about a de-mounted top cowl being blown about the tarmac.
Notwithstanding the geometrical challenges, I’ve fabricated some spring-loaded, concealed hinges as shown in the pixs, allowing for a total of 6 CAMLOCs to secure the cowl in place.
…
<DSCN8357.jpeg><DSCN8359.jpeg>
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