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Vgs on my mkiii classic

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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:24 am Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

I don't think I have shared the performance numbers after I put my Stoll speed  VG's on. 

I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal stabilizer.

 On the wing I put the VG on a modified spacing.   Between the ribs I put on 2 vg at the 60 mm spacing in the valleys with the tips pointing in at the front .   I would have to do the math, my ribs are about 130  mm apart.  So going over the ribs the spacing is 70 mm.   and I just did the outboard 2/3 thirds of each wing. 

All numbers show no VG speeds. To numbers with vgs 

At idle 

 No flaps stall speeds went from 39 to 36

 20 deg flaps 34 to 32

 40 deg flaps 30 to 30.  

 All speeds are IAS 

With 4200 rpm on the engine 

 No flaps 36.  To. A nibble at 33 and break at 27

 20 deg flaps. 32. To nibble at 30 break at 25

 40 deg flaps. 30 to nibble at 27 break at 24 

Stall angles with no vgs. Was 1.5 deg nose up compared to 3 point stance on level ground.  

With vgs

 the stall nibble started 4.8 deg nose up  compared to 3 point.

 The stall break was 8.6  deg nose up 

I really wish I had done this year's ago! 

Boyd

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:53 am Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

As soon as the weather breaks I have a set to install on my MKIII.  Should have gotten them on last year, but other "stuff" took priority on my time.

 

Share with us the difference between stall/break in ground effect landing and at altitude please.

 

Also, did you use the two sided sticky foam to attach?  and what was the OAT at the time?

 

john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

 

 

 

 

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young

Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:23 AM

To: Kolb List

Subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic



 

I don't think I have shared the performance numbers after I put my Stoll speed  VG's on.

I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal stabilizer.

On the wing I put the VG on a modified spacing.   Between the ribs I put on 2 vg at the 60 mm spacing in the valleys with the tips pointing in at the front .   I would have to do the math, my ribs are about 130  mm apart.  So going over the ribs the spacing is 70 mm.   and I just did the outboard 2/3 thirds of each wing.

All numbers show no VG speeds. To numbers with vgs

At idle 

No flaps stall speeds went from 39 to 36

20 deg flaps 34 to 32

40 deg flaps 30 to 30. 

All speeds are IAS

With 4200 rpm on the engine 

No flaps 36.  To. A nibble at 33 and break at 27

20 deg flaps. 32. To nibble at 30 break at 25

40 deg flaps. 30 to nibble at 27 break at 24

Stall angles with no vgs. Was 1.5 deg nose up compared to 3 point stance on level ground. 

With vgs

the stall nibble started 4.8 deg nose up  compared to 3 point.

The stall break was 8.6  deg nose up

I really wish I had done this year's ago!

Boyd

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:57 am Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 10:22 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

I don't think I have shared the performance numbers after I put my Stoll speed  VG's on. 

I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal stabilizer.

 On the wing I put the VG on a modified spacing.   Between the ribs I put on 2 vg at the 60 mm spacing in the valleys with the tips pointing in at the front .   I would have to do the math, my ribs are about 130  mm apart.  So going over the ribs the spacing is 70 mm.   and I just did the outboard 2/3 thirds of each wing. 

All numbers show no VG speeds. To numbers with vgs 

At idle 

 No flaps stall speeds went from 39 to 36

 20 deg flaps 34 to 32

 40 deg flaps 30 to 30.  

 All speeds are IAS 

With 4200 rpm on the engine 

 No flaps 36.  To. A nibble at 33 and break at 27

 20 deg flaps. 32. To nibble at 30 break at 25

 40 deg flaps. 30 to nibble at 27 break at 24 

Stall angles with no vgs. Was 1.5 deg nose up compared to 3 point stance on level ground.  

With vgs

 the stall nibble started 4.8 deg nose up  compared to 3 point.

 The stall break was 8.6  deg nose up 

I really wish I had done this year's ago! 

Boyd 	


Interesting that you saw no change at idle & full flaps, but big change with power & full flaps. Did it affect control ability in the stall? (Wondering if tips might be stalling 1st when under power.) 

I know that Kolbs aren't really about the other end of the spectrum, but did it affect top speed, or fuel burn at your normal cruise speed?

Thanks for sharing the info,

Charlie

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:57 am Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

I really wish I had done this year's ago!

Boyd

Well, some of you guys are really stubborn!   



Larry

_________________
do not archive

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:23 am Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

No comment!

Well...yes, I do have a comment.  When Homer Kolb rebuilt the 1985 Oshkosh Grand Champion Ultralight, a 1985 Firestar, he put a little more dihedral in the wings and added VGs.  I got to fly this aircraft that year and again after the rebuild.  Unfortunately, I was having a lot of fun with a dual carb 503 on an original FS and forgot all about the numbers and stuff like that.  It was a sky rocket.  Marcus Kolb is still flying his Dad's FS.

 

Can't wait until I can say, "Gosh, I wish I had done this years ago!!!"

 

john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

 

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell

Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:58 AM

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic



 

I really wish I had done this year's ago!

Boyd



 



Well, some of you guys are really stubborn!   



Larry

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:57 am Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

I don't recall thumping in a landing since installing the vgs .   I generally do a wheel landing, not much change there.  What has been referred to kolb's quit ( the stall) used to be quite sudden.   With the out board two thirds covered in vgs the center stalls first.  And starts to let you down  But because there is so much more nose up possible before the wing tips stall you can still pull back, to a greater angle of attack.   My tail wheel will hit a long time before the wing stalls.  When the tail wheel hits there is a loss of incidence, the mains come down with no tendency to bounce. 

I installed them last fall before it got too cold. 50 to 60 deg.   I used the tape John gilpen sent.   It is not a foam tape.  Just sticky and rather thin.  When I get a credit card in the mail, it is attached to the paper with sticky.   You can rub it off and roll it into a ball between your thumb and finger.   Same stuff, just way thinner.   I had visited with Roger while out to Larry's,. He had a couple come off,.  But in the stickys defence.  Roger said it pulled the paint with it.   His thoughts were the paint was put on too dry and did not melt into the under laying paint. 

 In 10 to 12 hours I've not had any failure.   I've flown in probably 10 deg to 70 deg air. 

Before vgs my mkiii would stall with no tendency for a wing to drop.  That has not changed.     

I've not been up with a passenger, so I can't offer any help with a more forward cg or gross weight.  

I've not been on a long enough trip to comment on fuel economy.  If it has slowed me down the amount has been so little I really could not tell.   Even if it is 2 mph,. A 4 hour trip will be extended by 8 min.   I'm not going to worry.   A tiny change in wind will make a bigger difference. 

I think the center wing is stalling first.   Between the first nibble of a stall and the break.   I remain in very positive control.    

Also I believe there is more difference in speeds with the engine at 4200 because imho in my humble opinion.  The prop is helping to pull the air across the wing at a more favorable angle. 

If you put vgs across the entire wing I believe you would get better numbers than mine, but I think I like the stall nibble,.  As a warning. 

Of anyone has questions feel free. 

Boyd 

On Jan 30, 2017 9:56 AM, "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  

As soon as the weather breaks I have a set to install on my MKIII.  Should have gotten them on last year, but other "stuff" took priority on my time.

 

Share with us the difference between stall/break in ground effect landing and at altitude please.

 

Also, did you use the two sided sticky foam to attach?  and what was the OAT at the time?

 

john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

 

 

 

 

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of B Young

Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:23 AM

To: Kolb List

Subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic



 

I don't think I have shared the performance numbers after I put my Stoll speed  VG's on.

I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal stabilizer.

On the wing I put the VG on a modified spacing.   Between the ribs I put on 2 vg at the 60 mm spacing in the valleys with the tips pointing in at the front .   I would have to do the math, my ribs are about 130  mm apart.  So going over the ribs the spacing is 70 mm.   and I just did the outboard 2/3 thirds of each wing.

All numbers show no VG speeds. To numbers with vgs

At idle 

No flaps stall speeds went from 39 to 36

20 deg flaps 34 to 32

40 deg flaps 30 to 30. 

All speeds are IAS

With 4200 rpm on the engine 

No flaps 36.  To. A nibble at 33 and break at 27

20 deg flaps. 32. To nibble at 30 break at 25

40 deg flaps. 30 to nibble at 27 break at 24

Stall angles with no vgs. Was 1.5 deg nose up compared to 3 point stance on level ground. 

With vgs

the stall nibble started 4.8 deg nose up  compared to 3 point.

The stall break was 8.6  deg nose up

I really wish I had done this year's ago!

Boyd

victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:01 am Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

Wow, thank you for posting actual numbers. Those numbers show about the same general type of improvements as the VG's are shown to make on Cubs, Taylorcrafts, Cessnas. 



I'm glad that they are working for you.



 	  Quote: 	
		  From what I've read here o n this list, it SEEMS that adding VG's will make it appropriate to use a longer landing gear leg. 


	


John H, I remember you writing that you are now using 36 inch gear legs. Perhaps when you install the VG's you can determine/document whether this will allow you to make use of even longer gear legs, and corresponding reductions in TO and LDG distances ?



Bill Berle

www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities



--

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:42 pm Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

Boyd- You don't happen to say, but did you put the VG's on the bottom of the horizontal stabilizer, or the top?  Are you going to add more?



                                                     Bill Sullivan

                                                     Windsor Locks, Ct.



 

 

 

 On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at

 10:22 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>

 wrote:

 I don't think I have shared the performance

 numbers after I put my Stoll speed  VG's on.

 I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal

 stabilizer.

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:25 pm Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

Bill 

The vgs were installed as per instructions.

 Vgs on the stabilizer are installed on the bottom abt 4 inches in front of the hinge line to the rudder.    I may do a bit more testing once the weather breaks. 

Boyd On Jan 30, 2017 1:49 PM, "william sullivan" <williamtsullivan(at)att.net (williamtsullivan(at)att.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net (williamtsullivan(at)att.net)>

 

   Boyd- You don't happen to say, but did you put the VG's on the bottom of the horizontal stabilizer, or the top?  Are you going to add more?

 

                                                      Bill Sullivan

                                                      Windsor Locks, Ct.

 

 

 

 

  On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at

  10:22 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)>

  wrote:

  I don't think I have shared the performance

  numbers after I put my Stoll speed  VG's on.

  I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal

  stabilizer.

 

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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:40 pm Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

Bill 

Longer gear legs could be an improvement,     but last fall a bunch of us landed on a dry lake bed, walked back to   an area where we could see steam.  Adjacent to that steam we stepped off a 700 ft section of  lake bed,  went back the next day and used half of it.      Density altitude about 5000 ft or maybe a bit higher.   With longer legs, to get that down to 200 ft,  guess there are places that may be an advantage. 

Boyd 

The stock mkiii came with 15 x 600 x 6 tires

 I now have 800 x 6.  With the once offered tapered steel gear.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:09 pm Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

Thanks, Boyd.  Were those tests conducted with or without beard?

 

Appreciate the info.  My MKIII doesn't fly quite like yours, but they have the same wing and tail section.  I plan to install VGs all the way across the wing and under the horizontal stab.  If I have enough I may try some on the vertical stab, both sides, to see what it does to the rudder.

 

I don't know if JG experimented with the vert stab or not.

 

Can't wait to say I wish I hadn't waited so long.  

 

john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

 

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young

Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 3:25 PM

To: Kolb List

Subject: Re: Vgs on my mkiii classic



 

Bill

The vgs were installed as per instructions.

Vgs on the stabilizer are installed on the bottom abt 4 inches in front of the hinge line to the rudder.    I may do a bit more testing once the weather breaks.

Boyd

On Jan 30, 2017 1:49 PM, "william sullivan" <williamtsullivan(at)att.net (williamtsullivan(at)att.net)> wrote:

--> Kolb-List message posted by: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net (williamtsullivan(at)att.net)>



  Boyd- You don't happen to say, but did you put the VG's on the bottom of the horizontal stabilizer, or the top?  Are you going to add more?



                                                     Bill Sullivan

                                                     Windsor Locks, Ct.





 On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at

 10:22 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)>

 wrote:

 I don't think I have shared the performance

 numbers after I put my Stoll speed  VG's on.

 I put the VG at 60 mm spacing in the horizontal

 stabilizer.



====================================

-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

====================================

FORUMS -

eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

===========

WIKI -

errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

===========

b Site -

          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

====================================

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:13 pm Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

Boyd 

Interesting that you saw no change at idle & full flaps, but big change with power & full flaps. Did it affect control ability in the stall? (Wondering if tips might be stalling 1st when under power.)  

Charlie 

*************

 I've re read your question again and figure a better answer was needed.

 While at 4200 rpm,  and between the stall nibble and stall break,  I still had good aileron control.   I think what is happening.  There is an area outside the prop arc with no vgs.  The vgs start 2 to 3 feet outside the arc.  I believe that is the part of the wing that is stalling first.   The prop when at partial power ( due to its position and angle to the wing). Pulls air across the top of the wing and prevents the far inboard area from stalling.  It is the inboard mid wing outside the prop arc and inside the start of vgs that stalls first.   Adding a few more vgs may eliminate some of that.  More vgs and testing needed.  But I am not unhappy where I am. A little loss of lift while in good control makes for an easy let down when landing.   Kind of like washout built into the wing.  I just need to put in my pilot hand book,  to make the most of that benefit partial is needed. 

Boyd

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:25 pm Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

John 

I think on something like a short coupled Pitts   vgs on the vertical may help.   The kolb has such a long moment arm to the tail I can't see any benefit unless you were about to do a ground loop. 

Boyd

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:35 pm Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

Bill B/Kolbers:



Had 35.5" gear legs on my original FS.  Made a truly great deal of improvement getting it in a good 3 pt stance.



Main reason I went with longer legs was:



-No brakes initially.  Made some 4130 streamlined lift struts.  Reduced the drag so much I couldn't get slowed down enough to make safe landings on my 600 ft grass strip with the FS in its original near level configuration.  By going to longer legs, a lot longer, I was able to turn up more of the bottom of the wing to help slow me down on landing and roll out.



-Allowed for much shorter take off and landing because I could rotate much more than the short legs.



-Finally, it looked a Hell of a lot better with the nose off the ground and not in that flat, squatty attitude.



I could use longer gear legs now without VGs, but would need a step stool to get in and out of the airplane.  As it is, I have to use the 8.00X6 tire to get my butt over the longeron to get in the seat.  Getting the bottom of the wing turned up makes a lot of difference.  When I am in good shape flying, that is flying 3 or 4 times a week, or on a month or so long cross country, I touch down as the needle is swinging through 30 mph.  ASI is pretty close to being accurate.  I've landed in a plane's length or two with a good headwind.  TO's are also pretty rapid.  Problem with TO's is power verses high pusher thrust line.  The more thrust applied the harder it is to get the airplane to break ground so it can overcome the nose being pushed down so much.  First TO after swapping the 80 for a 100 HP Rotax out of my short strip, I thought something was wrong with the airplane because it wouldn't break ground at normal TO speed.  Came back on power a little and it popped right off.



I plan to spend a lot more time with my airplane this year, get back in the groove, and possibly make another flight to the Rock House in SE Oregon.  2014 I made a flight to MV and the Rock House at the ripe old age of 75.  This September would be nice to fly to the Rock House Flyin.  I'll know more as the year progresses, see how I feel and how I feel about taking on another transcontinental flight.  One way or the other I'll be at the Rock House Kolb Flyin if I have to fly commercial.  



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama





--

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:52 pm Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 4:13 PM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Boyd 

Interesting that you saw no change at idle & full flaps, but big change with power & full flaps. Did it affect control ability in the stall? (Wondering if tips might be stalling 1st when under power.)  

Charlie 

*************

 I've re read your question again and figure a better answer was needed.

 While at 4200 rpm,  and between the stall nibble and stall break,  I still had good aileron control.   I think what is happening.  There is an area outside the prop arc with no vgs.  The vgs start 2 to 3 feet outside the arc.  I believe that is the part of the wing that is stalling first.   The prop when at partial power ( due to its position and angle to the wing). Pulls air across the top of the wing and prevents the far inboard area from stalling.  It is the inboard mid wing outside the prop arc and inside the start of vgs that stalls first.   Adding a few more vgs may eliminate some of that.  More vgs and testing needed.  But I am not unhappy where I am. A little loss of lift while in good control makes for an easy let down when landing.   Kind of like washout built into the wing.  I just need to put in my pilot hand book,  to make the most of that benefit partial is needed. 

Boyd 	


Ahh, yes; that makes sense. It seemed likely that accelerated airflow due to the prop would keep the center section flying longer; that's what prompted my question about control in stalled condition. If you've got a section of wing inboard of the ailerons but outboard of the prop arc, without the VGs, that would let you keep a more desirable stall. Might get really interesting if you put 'em all the way across. 

Charlie

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:55 pm Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

Charlie E/Kolbers:

One of the reason Homer designed such large ailerons was roll control in the mush/stall.

All the Kolb models I have flown have the capability of getting into a mush/stall with the stick full aft in a near level flying attitude with complete roll control.  I think this is something that gets low time pilots in Kolbs into trouble.  They get into a mush/stall and think they are still flying when they are falling out of the sky and arrive at Mother Earth with a smack.  If the aircraft is kept level, the mush/stall is a survivable crash.  I have seen this happen on several occasions, both times in US.  Yes, I was an eye witness on the ground at the time.  One was my old buddy, Ed (RIP), and the other was a fella in my US.  ;-(  I forget what the rate of decent is in my MKIII in a full mush/stall.  The rate of decent of an old (my era) T-10 parachute was 18 FPS, which is 1080 FPM.  I'm going to have to go flying to remember what the rate of decent was in a full mush/stall.  I'm thinking 1500 to 2000 FPM.  FS and single Kolbs would be less.  MKIII falls a lot faster.

Most Kolbs will also climb, full throttle, stick full aft, prop going into and out of cavitation, and still climbing.

These are some of the reasons I enjoy flying Kolbs.  They have been my aircraft of choice, capable of satisfying my many aviating desires.

 

john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

 

Boyd



Ahh, yes; that makes sense. It seemed likely that accelerated airflow due to the prop would keep the center section flying longer; that's what prompted my question about control in stalled condition. If you've got a section of wing inboard of the ailerons but outboard of the prop arc, without the VGs, that would let you keep a more desirable stall. Might get really interesting if you put 'em all the way across. 



 



Charlie

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:00 pm Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

John H please remember what was told to me by the great Ray Cote, who was once the most successful airplane racer of them all in total number of wins. At my very first race pilot briefing, the crafty old  champion (and former Corsair pilot) looked at me and said "Hey kid, Remember this... old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill !" Mr. Cote then proceeded to pass me on the race course like I was standing still 



So for whatever the opinion of one of us weird Hollywood people is worth... Go for it and make that XC trip at age 75. Heck, make a Kolb XC trip down to Tierra del Fuego in Argentina at 80 !



Bill Berle

www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities



--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 1/30/17, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote:



 Subject: RE: Vgs on my mkiii classic

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Monday, January 30, 2017, 2:35 PM

 

 

 "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>

 

 Bill B/Kolbers:

 

 Had 35.5" gear legs on my original FS.  Made a truly

 great deal of improvement getting it in a good 3 pt stance.

 

 Main reason I went with longer legs was:

 

 -No brakes initially.  Made some 4130 streamlined lift

 struts.  Reduced the drag so much I couldn't get slowed

 down enough to make safe landings on my 600 ft grass strip

 with the FS in its original near level configuration. 

 By going to longer legs, a lot longer, I was able to turn up

 more of the bottom of the wing to help slow me down on

 landing and roll out.

 

 -Allowed for much shorter take off and landing because I

 could rotate much more than the short legs.

 

 -Finally, it looked a Hell of a lot better with the nose off

 the ground and not in that flat, squatty attitude.

 

 I could use longer gear legs now without VGs, but would need

 a step stool to get in and out of the airplane.  As it

 is, I have to use the 8.00X6 tire to get my butt over the

 longeron to get in the seat.  Getting the bottom of the

 wing turned up makes a lot of difference.  When I am in

 good shape flying, that is flying 3 or 4 times a week, or on

 a month or so long cross country, I touch down as the needle

 is swinging through 30 mph.  ASI is pretty close to

 being accurate.  I've landed in a plane's length or two

 with a good headwind.  TO's are also pretty

 rapid.  Problem with TO's is power verses high pusher

 thrust line.  The more thrust applied the harder it is

 to get the airplane to break ground so it can overcome the

 nose being pushed down so much.  First TO after

 swapping the 80 for a 100 HP Rotax out of my short strip, I

 thought something was wrong with the airplane because it

 wouldn't break ground at normal TO speed.  Came back on

 power a little and it popped right off.

 

 I plan to spend a lot more time with my airplane this year,

 get back in the groove, and possibly make another flight to

 the Rock House in SE Oregon.  2014 I made a flight to

 MV and the Rock House at the ripe old age of 75.  This

 September would be nice to fly to the Rock House

 Flyin.  I'll know more as the year progresses, see how

 I feel and how I feel about taking on another

 transcontinental flight.  One way or the other I'll be

 at the Rock House Kolb Flyin if I have to fly

 commercial.  

 

 john h

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

 

 

 

 

 --

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:33 pm Post subject: Vgs on my mkiii classic

Bill B/Kolbers:



I did do the flight to the Rock House at 75, three years ago.  Now I'm contemplating doing it at 78.  Of course, contemplating is a long ways from doing.



I'll pass on Mexico and South America.  Don't feel comfortable dealing with those hoodlums.  Hell, I have enough problems in CONUS, Canada, and Alaska.



john h

Titus, Alabama





--

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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