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Firefly brakes

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Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:11 pm Post subject: Firefly brakes

While visiting Herb to pick up a front piece of Firefly cage, he showed us some bicycle disc brakes he was puttering with, and we decided to give that idea a try. If you look on ebay, there are a lot of low cost bicycle cable operated disc brake sets available, we got one set (identical front & rear) for $33 including shipping. At that price, why not?

First picture is the Original 1985 Firestar wheel barrow wheels. Actually pretty light. Spent some big bucks and put in real bearings.

The hardest part (and it cost more than the whole brake set did!) was getting the mounts formed to shape by a muffler shop. Trued them up as best we could, welded a mounting plate on, and attached the disc to them. Runout turned out to be really good!

This is how it looks all together, they have plenty of grip, just hoping they don't tend to grab. Added about 3 pounds total weight weight to the wheels. Total investment turned out to be about $140.

Here is how we trued it up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbtmNwsykZM

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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Last edited by Richard Pike on Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

west1m

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 155
Location: Hastings, MN

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Firefly brakes

Very nice Job! I had originally bought a set of the bicycle brakes for my Firefly but ended up giving up and going withe the way too expensive hydraulic brakes.

_________________
West1m
Hastings, MN

brubakermal(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:53 pm Post subject: Firefly brakes

Kolb flyer please,   i am loomi g for a kolb flyer . I would like to convert it to a electric plane



Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

 

  	  Quote: 	
		    On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Richard Pike

<thegreybaron(at)charter.net> wrote:

   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <[url=javascript:return]thegreybaron(at)charter.net[/url]>



While visiting Herb to pick up a front piece of Firefly cage, he showed us some bicycle disc brakes he was puttering with, and we decided to give that idea a try. If you look on ebay, there are a lot of low cost bicycle cable operated disc brake sets available, we got one set (identical front & rear) for $33 including shipping. At that price, why not?

First picture is the Original 1985 Firestar wheel barrow wheels. Actually pretty light. Spent some big bucks and put in real bearings.

The hardest part (and it cost more than the whole brake set did!) was getting the mounts formed to shape by a muffler shop. Trued them up as best we could, welded a mounting plate on, and attached the disc to them. Runout turned out to be really good!

This is how it looks all together, they have plenty of grip, just hoping they don't tend to grab. Added about 3 pounds total weight weight to the wheels.



--------

Richard Pike

Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

Kingsport, TN 3TN0



Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466076#466076





Attachments: 



http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050694_medium_231.jpg

http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050683_medium_602.jpg

http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050684_medium_141.jpg

http://forums.matronics.com/cs.com/Navigator?Kolb-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -<=             - List Contribution Web Site                      &nbs="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.mat=====================

Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:58 pm Post subject: Firefly brakes

Richard...you do good work..  



  I used those rims for the first Firefly...but procured a set of very 

true aluminum ones  for the second...Having a lathe allowed me to turn a 

spool..and move the rear wheel bearing into it..I then made a calliper 

holder that attached to the big washer that comes welded to  the Firefly 

axle... By the time that I built the second set...I had collected 4 or 5 

sets of front disk brakes from my favorite place to shop, the salvage 

yard.....Little ugly with one cable facing the front of the calliper and 

the other to the rear..



   One thing to be aware of ..the cable run allows too much stretch if 

it is of small diameter.. My first set were shimano since my son worked 

for an outdoors company..They were a little pricy...39 dollars... Others 

, I get for a buck or two..



  Too...I think ,haven't checked in a while...the Chinese offer 

hydraulic versions ...  My trouble with hydraulics over the years...is   

there are usually  leaks...  Though I replaced 3 out of 4 brake lines 

on my old Crown Vic...nary a leak!  Getting better with age I guess.. 

though other things leak!!   Herb





On 02/12/2017 04:11 PM, Richard Pike wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 While visiting Herb to pick up a front piece of Firefly cage, he showed us some bicycle disc brakes he was puttering with, and we decided to give that idea a try. If you look on ebay, there are a lot of low cost bicycle cable operated disc brake sets available, we got one set (identical front & rear) for $33 including shipping. At that price, why not?

 First picture is the Original 1985 Firestar wheel barrow wheels. Actually pretty light. Spent some big bucks and put in real bearings.

 The hardest part (and it cost more than the whole brake set did!) was getting the mounts formed to shape by a muffler shop. Trued them up as best we could, welded a mounting plate on, and attached the disc to them. Runout turned out to be really good!

 This is how it looks all together, they have plenty of grip, just hoping they don't tend to grab. Added about 3 pounds total weight weight to the wheels.



 --------

 Richard Pike

 Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 Kingsport, TN 3TN0



 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466076#466076





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050694_medium_231.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050683_medium_602.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050684_medium_141.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050692_medium_129.jpg


	


-- 

"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny."



Aristotle

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:24 pm Post subject: Firefly brakes

Although I don't have any thing directly to contribute to this thread, I would like to make an observation concerning Hydraulic and friction brakes. I recently went through a rather lengthy process of changing from friction to Hydraulic, and thanks to contributions from John Hauck, John Bickham and the special help from Boyd eventually made the change over. 



I had originally changed the stock 4 inch drum brakes to 5 inch O'Brian drum brakes which had been set up to individual hand brakes on the stick. I thought that the Hyd. would give me more braking, so I decided to change. I put a substantial chunk of change into the conversion, not to mention a lot of time. The finished product is actually no better than what I had, plus the potential for maintenance problems are much higher. I am just glad that I had such good friends or I would have been severely disappointed, both mentally and financially. Would I do it again- NOPE! 

FWIW

Larry

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>

 

 Richard...you do good work..  

 

  I used those rims for the first Firefly...but procured a set of very true aluminum ones  for the second...Having a lathe allowed me to turn a spool..and move the rear wheel bearing into it..I then made a calliper holder that attached to the big washer that comes welded to  the Firefly axle... By the time that I built the second set...I had collected 4 or 5 sets of front disk brakes from my favorite place to shop, the salvage yard....Little ugly with one cable facing the front of the calliper and the other to the rear..

 

   One thing to be aware of ..the cable run allows too much stretch if it is of small diameter.. My first set were shimano since my son worked for an outdoors company..They were a little pricy...39 dollars... Others , I get for a buck or two..

 

  Too...I think ,haven't checked in a while...the Chinese offer hydraulic versions ...  My trouble with hydraulics over the years...is   there are usually  leaks...  Though I replaced 3 out of 4 brake lines on my old Crown Vic...nary a leak!  Getting better with age I guess.. though other things leak!!   Herb

 

 

 

 

 On 02/12/2017 04:11 PM, Richard Pike wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net (thegreybaron(at)charter.net)>

 

 While visiting Herb to pick up a front piece of Firefly cage, he showed us some bicycle disc brakes he was puttering with, and we decided to give that idea a try. If you look on ebay, there are a lot of low cost bicycle cable operated disc brake sets available, we got one set (identical front & rear) for $33 including shipping. At that price, why not?

 First picture is the Original 1985 Firestar wheel barrow wheels. Actually pretty light. Spent some big bucks and put in real bearings.

 The hardest part (and it cost more than the whole brake set did!) was getting the mounts formed to shape by a muffler shop. Trued them up as best we could, welded a mounting plate on, and attached the disc to them. Runout turned out to be really good!

 This is how it looks all together, they have plenty of grip, just hoping they don't tend to grab. Added about 3 pounds total weight weight to the wheels.

 

 --------

 Richard Pike

 Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 Kingsport, TN 3TN0

 

 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466076#466076

 

 

 

 

 Attachments:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050694_medium_231.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050683_medium_602.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050684_medium_141.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050692_medium_129.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 	
 

 -- 

 "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny."

 

 Aristotle

 

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Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Firefly brakes

Thanks for the comments. We had originally thought of skipping brakes to save weight. Then considered rigging a small lever pad to push on the tail wheel, just to keep it from rolling along on a paved ramp when the engine is at idle. If we did that, we would obviously be going with absolute minimal weight & brakes. And if it comes out really close to Part 103 specs, and needs just 2 or 3 pounds less to make the difference, we may end up going with that.

We are not expecting these brakes to be real great, OTOH if it turns out to be a real U/L, it shouldn't need much brakes.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:06 pm Post subject: Firefly brakes

Larry     

  I have a set of Hydraulic Tracy O'Brien floating disk brakes on       my J3 Kitten...Seems as if they are 5 to 600 bucks?   Is that       similar ?   I didn't buy them however..  By now you guys likely       know that!!  

          

  I can handle the physical part but the mental part would put me       in company with guys in white jackets!!  

          

  With the Firefly...all I wanted them to do was to hold up to       4500 to 5k rpm on runup.  beyond that  , they would allow the Fly       to creep.  Originally, I had independent heel brakes, for it was       always embarrassing to stop at the end of a 

          

narrow  field, get out and lift the tail boom... I had trouble       landing with the brakes on...so I went back to a lever on the       joystick.. The heel brakes cost me a scratch and dent nose       cone..Travis had one where the instrument panel had 

          

debonded..100 bucks...Miss ole Travis!!   worked out great for       I could remove the panel very easily... always a full enclosure on       my flys...and they usually came in around 290...lbs     



          

   Travis was  true salesman...I rarely left there with the same       amount of hundred dollar bills that I had when I came ...On the       way. home...I would say...now!!  why did I buy that??    Herb 

          

 

          

     On 02/12/2017 06:23 PM, Larry Cottrell       wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		         Although I don't have any thing directly to         contribute to this thread, I would like to make an observation         concerning Hydraulic and friction brakes. I recently went         through a rather lengthy process of changing from friction to         Hydraulic, and thanks to contributions from John Hauck, John         Bickham and the special help from Boyd eventually made the         change over.          

         

         I had originally changed the stock 4 inch drum brakes to 5           inch O'Brian drum brakes which had been set up to individual           hand brakes on the stick. I thought that the Hyd. would give           me more braking, so I decided to change. I put a substantial           chunk of change into the conversion, not to mention a lot of           time. The finished product is actually no better than what I           had, plus the potential for maintenance problems are much           higher. I am just glad that I had such good friends or I would           have been severely disappointed, both mentally and           financially. Would I do it again- NOPE! 

         

         

         FWIW

         Larry

         

         

         

         

       

       

         On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>           wrote:

            	  Quote: 	
		  -->             Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>

             

             Richard...you do good work..  

             

              I used those rims for the first Firefly...but procured a             set of very true aluminum ones  for the second...Having a             lathe allowed me to turn a spool..and move the rear wheel             bearing into it..I then made a calliper holder that attached             to the big washer that comes welded to  the Firefly axle...             By the time that I built the second set...I had collected 4             or 5 sets of front disk brakes from my favorite place to             shop, the salvage yard.....Little ugly with one cable facing             the front of the calliper and the other to the rear..

             

               One thing to be aware of ..the cable run allows too much             stretch if it is of small diameter.. My first set were             shimano since my son worked for an outdoors company..They             were a little pricy...39 dollars... Others , I get for a             buck or two..

             

              Too...I think ,haven't checked in a while...the Chinese             offer hydraulic versions ...  My trouble with hydraulics             over the years...is   there are usually  leaks...  Though             I replaced 3 out of 4 brake lines on my old Crown Vic...nary             a leak!  Getting better with age I guess.. though other             things leak!!   Herb

             

             

             

             

             On 02/12/2017 04:11 PM, Richard Pike wrote:

              	  Quote: 	
		                 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net (thegreybaron(at)charter.net)>

               

               While visiting Herb to pick up a front piece of Firefly               cage, he showed us some bicycle disc brakes he was               puttering with, and we decided to give that idea a try. If               you look on ebay, there are a lot of low cost bicycle               cable operated disc brake sets available, we got one set               (identical front & rear) for $33 including shipping.               At that price, why not?

               First picture is the Original 1985 Firestar wheel barrow               wheels. Actually pretty light. Spent some big bucks and               put in real bearings.

               The hardest part (and it cost more than the whole brake               set did!) was getting the mounts formed to shape by a               muffler shop. Trued them up as best we could, welded a               mounting plate on, and attached the disc to them. Runout               turned out to be really good!

               This is how it looks all together, they have plenty of               grip, just hoping they don't tend to grab. Added about 3               pounds total weight weight to the wheels.

               

               --------

               Richard Pike

               Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

               Kingsport, TN 3TN0

               

               Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.

               

               

               

               

               Read this topic online here:

               

               http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466076#466076

               

               

               

               

               Attachments:

               

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               http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050684_medium_141.jpg

               http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1050692_medium_129.jpg

               

               

               

               

               

               

             	
             

             -- 

             "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and             feminine democracies give way to tyranny."

             

             Aristotle

             

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                     If you forward this email, or any part of                         it, please remove my email address before                         sending.

                     

                   

                 

               

             

           

         

       

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"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny."



Aristotle

Herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:15 pm Post subject: Firefly brakes

Richard



   Guess Bryan has told you all the tricks to make 103..  4 inch nylon 

wheels,very light, wooden prop,second coat of poly brush mixed with 

similar amount of Poly spray... so on ..



   Not all that sure...but it may be that the original Firefly used .028 

cro molly?  I think it is all 035 now?   The leading and trailing edge 

aluminum on the Ultra star was quite thin...most of the hinge attach 

points would have a pucker outward . Noticeable when rebuilding... 

Likely not used on the first Fireflys however...



   Jack Hart is the authority on this subject..saving an ounce here and 

there...Herb

On 02/12/2017 06:51 PM, Richard Pike wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks for the comments. We had originally thought of skipping brakes to save weight. Then considered rigging a small lever pad to push on the tail wheel, just to keep it from rolling along on a paved ramp when the engine is at idle. If we did that, we would obviously be going with absolute minimal weight & brakes. And if it comes out really close to Part 103 specs, and needs just 2 or 3 pounds less to make the difference, we may end up going with that.

 We are not expecting these brakes to be real great, OTOH if it turns out to be a real U/L, it shouldn't need much brakes.



 --------

 Richard Pike

 Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 Kingsport, TN 3TN0



 Forgiving is tough. Being forgiven is wonderful.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466093#466093




	


-- 

"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyranny."



Aristotle

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Firefly brakes

 	  brubakermal(at)yahoo.com wrote: 	
		  Kolb flyer please,  I am looking for a kolb flyer . I would like to convert it to a electric plane 

 	
[/quote]



Here ye be Mal - always glad to help! Feel free to hijack my thread anytime you like!

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/UltraLight-Ultra-Light-Aircraft-Airplane-Twin-Engine-Possible-KOLB-Flyer-/302220414386?hash=item465dbd8db2:g:1bkAAOSwjDZYiAlV&vxp=mtr

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

lmorgan100(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:20 am Post subject: Firefly brakes

I put a set of Chinese hydraulic bike brakes on a Kolb Twinstar MKII 2 years

ago on the same rims that you used. I also replaced the bearings with some

good ones and also added an extra bearing on each wheel. The brakes have

worked great with a lot of stopping power. 

Lee.



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