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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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 Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Sky-Tec NL vs LS starter |
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I guess I bought my (Vans) engine at just the right time, late 2009. Back then you could pull the unused LS off and Skytech would swap, no charge, for the NL.
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Bob Turner
RV-10 QB |
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jchang10
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:38 am Post subject: Sky-Tec NL vs LS starter |
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Hi Bob, you were fortunate to be early. I remember trying to get mine
swapped before first start in 2011 but got a big "negative." People were
recommending replacing the stock LS starter for NL. Once it leaves their
shop, they consider it "used" no matter what. I can't blame them really.
Thus, i kept the LS and had the issue on the first blade. The first
blade would not turn sometimes. It was slightly embarassing at times,
especially when giving rides to those who were not familiar with
"experimentals." Then one day a bad start broke the LS casing. Replaced
with NL and no more start issues whatsoever. NL starts like a race horse
instead of a donkey and all is well. 
Jae
On 2/17/2017 10:23 AM, Bob Turner wrote:
--
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011
do not archive
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#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011 |
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gengrumpy
Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 131
Location: Tullahoma, TN
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:08 pm Post subject: Sky-Tec NL vs LS starter |
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| Quote: | On Feb 17, 2017, at 9:58 AM, John Miller <gengrumpy(at)aol.com> wrote:
In the FWIW area on starters, I originally had the LS starter on my 10. I had always had difficulty starting with just 1 PC 680 battery. During my 2015 ACI I decided to send it back to SkyTech for refurb. When discussing with them, they told me I had the wrong starter installed since the engine was built by AeroSport Power in 2006! They sent me an overhauled NL starter with my LS as the core. Same fit and function as the LS.
The difference in the initial turning of blades is night and day different (MUCH improved).
grumpy
n184jm
do not archive
> On Feb 17, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> That's kind of what I figured Phil. The photos all make it
> look much longer than the LS/PM versions. The LS and PM
> seem to be almost identical, with the solenoid on the opposite
> side of the main body. I may have some small wires like for
> my lightspeed ignition or something that I have to
> adjust but I don't expect anything major. It's just that
> going from a short/wide starter to a narrow/long one
> had me wondering if I was overlooking something. I guess
> I'll know in a couple weeks.
>
> I'll report back after I get them installed.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 2/17/2017 9:26 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>
>> Tim,
>>
>> I'm not familiar with the 149-12PM, so I can't comment on the
>> differences between the fit. However I have the NL, and can't imagine
>> that you would have any fit issues. It tucks away into the engine
>> nicely. Perhaps you could have a scat tube, cable, or wire in the way,
>> but I doubt it.
>>
>> Here's some photos with a straight edge to help put things into perspective.
>>
>> For the record, I have a dual alt/battery setup with dual PC-680's on
>> the backend. I also have 9:1 pistons and a the NL starter doesn't even
>> blink at spinning the MT on a single battery. Plenty of torque off a
>> 680 for the 9:1 pistons. Your PC-925 and 8.5 pistons (IIRC) won't have
>> any issues at all.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>
>
>
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gengrumpy
Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 131
Location: Tullahoma, TN
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:26 am Post subject: Sky-Tec NL vs LS starter |
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| Quote: | On Feb 17, 2017, at 5:06 PM, John Miller <gengrumpy(at)aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 17, 2017, at 9:58 AM, John Miller <gengrumpy(at)aol.com> wrote:
>
> In the FWIW area on starters, I originally had the LS starter on my 10. I had always had difficulty starting with just 1 PC 680 battery. During my 2015 ACI I decided to send it back to SkyTech for refurb. When discussing with them, they told me I had the wrong starter installed since the engine was built by AeroSport Power in 2006! They sent me an overhauled NL starter with my LS as the core. Same fit and function as the LS.
>
> The difference in the initial turning of blades is night and day different (MUCH improved).
>
> grumpy
> n184jm
>
> do not archive
>
>> On Feb 17, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> That's kind of what I figured Phil. The photos all make it
>> look much longer than the LS/PM versions. The LS and PM
>> seem to be almost identical, with the solenoid on the opposite
>> side of the main body. I may have some small wires like for
>> my lightspeed ignition or something that I have to
>> adjust but I don't expect anything major. It's just that
>> going from a short/wide starter to a narrow/long one
>> had me wondering if I was overlooking something. I guess
>> I'll know in a couple weeks.
>>
>> I'll report back after I get them installed.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> On 2/17/2017 9:26 AM, Phillip Perry wrote:
>>>
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> I'm not familiar with the 149-12PM, so I can't comment on the
>>> differences between the fit. However I have the NL, and can't imagine
>>> that you would have any fit issues. It tucks away into the engine
>>> nicely. Perhaps you could have a scat tube, cable, or wire in the way,
>>> but I doubt it.
>>>
>>> Here's some photos with a straight edge to help put things into perspective.
>>>
>>> For the record, I have a dual alt/battery setup with dual PC-680's on
>>> the backend. I also have 9:1 pistons and a the NL starter doesn't even
>>> blink at spinning the MT on a single battery. Plenty of torque off a
>>> 680 for the 9:1 pistons. Your PC-925 and 8.5 pistons (IIRC) won't have
>>> any issues at all.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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rv10flyer
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Sky-Tec NL vs LS starter |
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I have a 925/680 in the back. Using the 925 with the LS starter, I measured 438 Amps and less than 9.5 V at starter. Changed to the NL last year due to having 4 years of the same intermittent starting difficulties. Starting amps dropped to 285 Amps and 11.1 V at starter. Much nicer.
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Wayne G. |
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2878
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:17 pm Post subject: Sky-Tec NL vs LS starter |
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Very cool, a man with data!
Thanks Wayne. My starters arrive tomorrow, and maybe if I'm lucky I'll
have them in and working this weekend.
Tim
do not archive
On 2/21/2017 11:03 PM, rv10flyer wrote:
| Quote: |
<wayne.gillispie(at)gmail.com>
I have a 925/680 in the back. Using the 925 with the LS starter, I
measured 438 Amps and less than 9.5 V at starter. Changed to the NL
last year due to having 4 years of the same intermittent starting
difficulties. Starting amps dropped to 285 Amps and 11.1 V at
starter. Much nicer.
-------- Wayne G.
|
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2878
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:39 am Post subject: Sky-Tec NL vs LS starter |
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Hey Folks,
I just wanted to close the loop on the whole starter experience in
switching from a 149-12PM to a 149-12NL starter. I also switched
out my RV-14 from a 149-12LS to a 149-12NL at the same time.
First, the install on the RV-10 went very well. As you guys
said, there is plenty of room for the starter. The only
things I ran into were:
1) I had an adel clamp holding a wire mounted on the left rear
stud, and that stud has a funky mounting lug on the new starter.
This meant the adel clamp would be hard to put in that spot, so
I had to make a 1.5" or so stainless "extension" arm for the
clamp. No big deal at all.
2) I had to cut about 3/4" of my wire off the end and install
a new terminal.
Every comment I read on forums said things like "the NL starter
spins the prop so fast you could taxi with it" and stuff like
that. (I know, that's tongue in cheek, but...)
My initial experience is that it did not seem faster than
the PM starter that I had before. But, it did not get stuck on
the initial compression of the engine when cranking, either.
So, to me, it seemed more powerful but less fast than the
starter I was used to. Not that I wasn't satisfied, but,
everyone talking about how fast it was made me skeptical
once I actually tried it out.
I checked the specs just now online, and that explains it.
NL: Geared 6.5:1, 125-220A (at)11V, 140 RPM Test
PM/LS: Geared 4.3:1, 185-285A (at)11V, 160 RPM Test
So indeed, the PM/LS will turn your prop faster, if it
can turn the prop. To that end, I probably should not have
bothered to swap out my RV-14 starter, because the
149-12LS turned the prop fast and it never got stuck on
a compression stroke.
The RV-14 install was a bit more painful, mainly because of
an intake snorkel in the way. The 149-12NL has 2 large
lugs that point down off the case, and both of those lugs
interfere with the air intake, so I had to cut them both
down to about 1/4-1/3 their height to make clearance.
Once I did that though, cutting 1/2" off the wire and
re-clocking the cable ring terminal was all it took.
It's a bit tighter under the engine on the -14, due to some
Throttle linkage parts that come with the kit. But, the
new starter works fine on that plane too.
All in all, I'm satisfied because both starters being the
same, I can now swap them if I ever need to. But, whereas
I think the IO-540 really requires the NL starter, the
IO-390 does not, and I'd probably suggest most -14 builders
just stick with the LS that came with their engine. It'll
crank faster, and do a fine job.
Next on the list is to sell the PM starter, and send in the
LS starter for bench testing under warranty.
Tim
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