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stuart(at)stuarthutchison
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 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:39 am Post subject: Hardware supplies (was Coaxial Cable) |
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Sometimes the temptation to order from Harbour Freight Aerospace is strong, but it’s important to ask yourself and perhaps the forum whether a part is critical before deciding. FMEA applies to everything we do, not just the electrics. For example, many regular greases doesn’t fare well in freezing conditions and mild steel (non-hardened) axel washers have been known to gall and lock up a wheel, with potentially disastrous consequences.
Yes, Tefzel wires all round for me please … I’d rather not have to endure acrid PVC fumes if my wiring cooks off … there would be enough to contend with already. Having experienced numerous in-flight overheats in electronic systems on the P-3 Orion (Kapton wiring), my cockpit will be well ventilated with efficient inflow plus smoke removal (exit) doors as well … since I can’t open the slider canopy in-flight. Call me crazy, but iPad/iPhone overheat (in rarified air, poor ventilation and direct sunlight) concerns me too, so I am designing a lightweight stainless steel, smoke and flame proof sleeve with an external ventilation tube to contain the device if a thermal runaway were to occur.
V/R Stu
[quote] On 25 Feb 2017, at 03:25, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:
I'm with Charlie. There are huge differences with the other examples you cite, such as hardware store fasteners vs AN hardware.
The difference in performance and safety between RG58 and RG400 is minuscule for a very real price difference.
RG58 has been the accepted aircraft coax for at least 50 yrs. AFAIK RG400 didn't become recommended until after the turn of the century. Mainly over performance with WAAS GPS, not safety, not anything else that matters for other avionics.
I'll not argue Tefzel vs automotive wire. There is a huge durability difference there, as well as insulation thickness difference.
OTOH I have inspected many aircraft with RG58 installed 50-60 yrs ago and it is still performing fine. Unlike the general wiring that was used back then.
On 2/24/2017 9:02 AM, Robert McCallum wrote:
> Charlie;
>
> I've followed your many posts and generally "good opinions" on many
> subjects over a lengthy period of time and respect those opinions and
> advice, but in this case I'm curious.
>
> Did you wire your bird with automotive PVC wire because it was "good
> enough" or did you use Tefzel insulated wire because that's what is
> recognized as "correct" current practice? Did you use "hardware store"
> hardware because it's probably "good enough" or did you use correct "AN
> hardware"? Did you use proper "braided hoses" (Aeroquip style) or did
> you use "good enough" rubber hoses?
>
> I'm a bit mystified why you seem to be advocating "good enough" RG-58
> when "better" (by how much may be debatable) RG-400 is readily available
> for a small overall increase in $$$$. Wouldn't it seem that doing "the
> best we know how" be the most prudent "best" approach?? There is no
> labour difference, the fittings are essentially the same, the only
> actual "difference" might be a hundred dollars or so which in the
> overall scheme of things is peanuts for the average finished project?
> There's also "pride of workmanship" and the self satisfaction of doing
> it right as opposed to "good enough". Just my alternate view two cents
> worth.
>
> Respectfully
>
> Bob McC
>
>
>
>> --------
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:55 am Post subject: Hardware supplies (was Coaxial Cable) |
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I'm not sure what Harbor Freight {anything} has to do with RG58a/u coax
that's FAA certified for a/c use, but if self-righteous rants float your
boat...
On 2/26/2017 2:36 AM, Stuart Hutchison wrote:
[quote]
Sometimes the temptation to order from Harbour Freight Aerospace is strong, but it’s important to ask yourself and perhaps the forum whether a part is critical before deciding. FMEA applies to everything we do, not just the electrics. For example, many regular greases doesn’t fare well in freezing conditions and mild steel (non-hardened) axel washers have been known to gall and lock up a wheel, with potentially disastrous consequences.
Yes, Tefzel wires all round for me please … I’d rather not have to endure acrid PVC fumes if my wiring cooks off … there would be enough to contend with already. Having experienced numerous in-flight overheats in electronic systems on the P-3 Orion (Kapton wiring), my cockpit will be well ventilated with efficient inflow plus smoke removal (exit) doors as well … since I can’t open the slider canopy in-flight. Call me crazy, but iPad/iPhone overheat (in rarified air, poor ventilation and direct sunlight) concerns me too, so I am designing a lightweight stainless steel, smoke and flame proof sleeve with an external ventilation tube to contain the device if a thermal runaway were to occur.
V/R Stu
> On 25 Feb 2017, at 03:25, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I'm with Charlie. There are huge differences with the other examples you cite, such as hardware store fasteners vs AN hardware.
> The difference in performance and safety between RG58 and RG400 is minuscule for a very real price difference.
> RG58 has been the accepted aircraft coax for at least 50 yrs. AFAIK RG400 didn't become recommended until after the turn of the century. Mainly over performance with WAAS GPS, not safety, not anything else that matters for other avionics.
> I'll not argue Tefzel vs automotive wire. There is a huge durability difference there, as well as insulation thickness difference.
> OTOH I have inspected many aircraft with RG58 installed 50-60 yrs ago and it is still performing fine. Unlike the general wiring that was used back then.
>
> On 2/24/2017 9:02 AM, Robert McCallum wrote:
>> Charlie;
>>
>> I've followed your many posts and generally "good opinions" on many
>> subjects over a lengthy period of time and respect those opinions and
>> advice, but in this case I'm curious.
>>
>> Did you wire your bird with automotive PVC wire because it was "good
>> enough" or did you use Tefzel insulated wire because that's what is
>> recognized as "correct" current practice? Did you use "hardware store"
>> hardware because it's probably "good enough" or did you use correct "AN
>> hardware"? Did you use proper "braided hoses" (Aeroquip style) or did
>> you use "good enough" rubber hoses?
>>
>> I'm a bit mystified why you seem to be advocating "good enough" RG-58
>> when "better" (by how much may be debatable) RG-400 is readily available
>> for a small overall increase in $$$$. Wouldn't it seem that doing "the
>> best we know how" be the most prudent "best" approach?? There is no
>> labour difference, the fittings are essentially the same, the only
>> actual "difference" might be a hundred dollars or so which in the
>> overall scheme of things is peanuts for the average finished project?
>> There's also "pride of workmanship" and the self satisfaction of doing
>> it right as opposed to "good enough". Just my alternate view two cents
>> worth.
>>
>> Respectfully
>>
>> Bob McC
>>
>>
>>
>>> --------
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stuart(at)stuarthutchison
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:44 am Post subject: Hardware supplies (was Coaxial Cable) |
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Nothing to do with Coax Charlie, which is why I changed the subject line, but there were references to ‘good enough’ in relation to other components.
"Harbour Freight Aerospace" was just an attempt at humour (we call it Bunnings Aerospace here in Aus), but I see Harbour Freight only sells tools, not so much hardware … my bad.
Nope, self righteous rants don’t float my boat, I just thought this was an open forum where we can all share constructive ideas.
Very Respectfully, Stu
[quote] On 27 Feb 2017, at 05:54, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure what Harbor Freight {anything} has to do with RG58a/u coax that's FAA certified for a/c use, but if self-righteous rants float your boat...
On 2/26/2017 2:36 AM, Stuart Hutchison wrote:
>
>
> Sometimes the temptation to order from Harbour Freight Aerospace is strong, but it’s important to ask yourself and perhaps the forum whether a part is critical before deciding. FMEA applies to everything we do, not just the electrics. For example, many regular greases doesn’t fare well in freezing conditions and mild steel (non-hardened) axel washers have been known to gall and lock up a wheel, with potentially disastrous consequences.
>
> Yes, Tefzel wires all round for me please … I’d rather not have to endure acrid PVC fumes if my wiring cooks off … there would be enough to contend with already. Having experienced numerous in-flight overheats in electronic systems on the P-3 Orion (Kapton wiring), my cockpit will be well ventilated with efficient inflow plus smoke removal (exit) doors as well … since I can’t open the slider canopy in-flight. Call me crazy, but iPad/iPhone overheat (in rarified air, poor ventilation and direct sunlight) concerns me too, so I am designing a lightweight stainless steel, smoke and flame proof sleeve with an external ventilation tube to contain the device if a thermal runaway were to occur.
>
> V/R Stu
>
>
>> On 25 Feb 2017, at 03:25, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm with Charlie. There are huge differences with the other examples you cite, such as hardware store fasteners vs AN hardware.
>> The difference in performance and safety between RG58 and RG400 is minuscule for a very real price difference.
>> RG58 has been the accepted aircraft coax for at least 50 yrs. AFAIK RG400 didn't become recommended until after the turn of the century. Mainly over performance with WAAS GPS, not safety, not anything else that matters for other avionics.
>> I'll not argue Tefzel vs automotive wire. There is a huge durability difference there, as well as insulation thickness difference.
>> OTOH I have inspected many aircraft with RG58 installed 50-60 yrs ago and it is still performing fine. Unlike the general wiring that was used back then.
>>
>> On 2/24/2017 9:02 AM, Robert McCallum wrote:
>>> Charlie;
>>>
>>> I've followed your many posts and generally "good opinions" on many
>>> subjects over a lengthy period of time and respect those opinions and
>>> advice, but in this case I'm curious.
>>>
>>> Did you wire your bird with automotive PVC wire because it was "good
>>> enough" or did you use Tefzel insulated wire because that's what is
>>> recognized as "correct" current practice? Did you use "hardware store"
>>> hardware because it's probably "good enough" or did you use correct "AN
>>> hardware"? Did you use proper "braided hoses" (Aeroquip style) or did
>>> you use "good enough" rubber hoses?
>>>
>>> I'm a bit mystified why you seem to be advocating "good enough" RG-58
>>> when "better" (by how much may be debatable) RG-400 is readily available
>>> for a small overall increase in $$$$. Wouldn't it seem that doing "the
>>> best we know how" be the most prudent "best" approach?? There is no
>>> labour difference, the fittings are essentially the same, the only
>>> actual "difference" might be a hundred dollars or so which in the
>>> overall scheme of things is peanuts for the average finished project?
>>> There's also "pride of workmanship" and the self satisfaction of doing
>>> it right as opposed to "good enough". Just my alternate view two cents
>>> worth.
>>>
>>> Respectfully
>>>
>>> Bob McC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> --------
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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