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Starter Hesitation

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RV7ASask

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 36

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:44 am Post subject: Starter Hesitation

I posted the questions below on the Lycoming List and received some good advice. I would like to pose the questions again to my learned friends on the Aeroelectric List to see if I can get a little more insite.



"I have a Sky-Tec starter on a Lycoming IO360. It has always started the engine BUT lately when I push the START button there is a pause. Sometimes it is a long pause then it kicks in. Sometimes I release the button and try again. I have a fear it will not start one time when I am a long way from maintenance or from home. Is this a symptom of something worse to come? Should I be concerned?"



Thanks

David Lamb



RV7A    C-FLAM

rnjcurtis(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:13 am Post subject: Starter Hesitation

"I have a Sky-Tec starter on a Lycoming IO360. It has always started the engine BUT lately when I push the START button there is a pause. Sometimes it is a long pause then it kicks in. Sometimes I release the button and try again. I have a fear it will not start one time when I am a long way from maintenance or from home. Is this a symptom of something worse to come? Should I be concerned?"

 

 

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  When you say â€œpauseâ€, does this mean nothing happens, or there is only

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â   a click, or there is a click and the starter spins up but does not engage

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â   the flywheel gear?Â  A bit more explanation is in order.

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  Yes, it may get worse, and yes you should be concerned.

 

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  Roger

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1921
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Starter Hesitation

There could be a mechanical problem with the engine or starter.  If those have been ruled out, next check for voltage drops in the starter circuit.  It is much easier to find bad connections when the circuit is under heavy load.  Disconnect the starter motor and connect a heavy load in its place.  While current is flowing, measure the voltage between the battery positive post and the positive terminal at the starter end.  And then measure voltage between the battery negative post and starter ground.

_________________
Joe Gores

RV7ASask

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 36

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Starter Hesitation

The "pause" is absolute silence. Nothing. It could be as long as four or five seconds then rotation.



David

alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:01 pm Post subject: Starter Hesitation

I had something a little similar: it turned out to be a weak battery. I surmised that the starter was trying to turn the engine against the oil bead, or static friction of the pistons. Perhaps differentiating it from your case, sometimes it would stall after half a revolution for a second or two, until the compression in the cylinders was released.

Try moving the prop by hand back and forth a quarter turn before starting, see if that eases the situation. That might give you a clue. And if not a weak battery, then excessive voltage drop in the lines.

On 8Mar2017, at 2:27 PM, RV7ASask <rv7alamb(at)sasktel.net> wrote:






The "pause" is absolute silence. Nothing. It could be as long as four or five seconds then rotation.



David





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467031#467031

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:42 pm Post subject: Starter Hesitation

-------- Original message --------

From: RV7ASask  

Date:03/08/2017  2:27 PM  (GMT-05:00) 

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com 

Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Starter Hesitation 



--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV7ASask" <rv7alamb(at)sasktel.net>



The "pause" is absolute silence. Nothing. It could be as long as four or five seconds then rotation.



David



If not even a click, that points to the start switch, or a sticking start solenoid. 

Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467031#467031

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Bob McC

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 258
Location: Toronto, ON

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:43 pm Post subject: Starter Hesitation

David;   

Sounds like a faulty starter switch/button  which is not sending the "start" signal to the solenoid. If the start signal was going to the solenoid you'd at least have a "click". With absolutely nothing, dead silence, the circuit must be open before the solenoid somewhere. The most likely suspect being the starter button/switch. OR, possibly a ground issue for the solenoid. where it isn't being grounded properly and therefore not pulling in. Sometimes dirty switch contacts or dubious grounds "make" on their own after a short period as tiny currents, clean or burn away the high resistance connection allowing the necessary current to then flow.   

Bob McC   [quote]    

--------

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Bob McC
Falco #908
(just starting)

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:02 pm Post subject: Starter Hesitation

This same sort of thing just happened to me.  Turn the key, and

nothing but the firewall solenoid clunking.  Turn it a couple

more times and everything was great.



I replaced the starter and then things were fine, but, I did

one thing in the meantime.  The old starter was wired per

Van's plans where you have both the fat wire and the other

wire running from the firewall solenoid to the starter solenoid.

So one big terminal and one small terminal on each end...jumper

removed on the starter.



The new starter I wired with just the single fat wire.

Since it was an NL starter, you have to wire them with

just the fat wire.



With that, everything works fine.



And, bench testing the starter for both the solenoid action,

and the combined solenoid+spin worked just fine many many

times during the test.



So ultimately I'm guessing I wasn't making good contact

on the small terminal of the firewall solenoid.  I can't

remember if that was the "S" terminal or not off hand as I

type this.



Anyway, just something to consider.



Tim



On 03/08/2017 02:32 PM, Charlie England wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 -------- Original message --------

 From: RV7ASask

 Date:03/08/2017 2:27 PM (GMT-05:00)

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Starter Hesitation



 



 The "pause" is absolute silence. Nothing. It could be as long as four or

 five seconds then rotation.



 David



 If not even a click, that points to the start switch, or a sticking

 start solenoid.

 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467031#467031

kenryan

Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:29 pm Post subject: Starter Hesitation

I don't know if this helps, but it is a characteristic of LiFePO4 batteries that under some conditions performance will improve when a load is applied. Presumably the load warms things up, resistance drops, and voltage rises, but that explanation is just this neophyte's guess. So, given this behavior.....



.....it is possible that the battery is heating up from the load, and then finally reaching the point where it will spin the prop. A fresh battery would be the answer

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 11:59 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

 

 This same sort of thing just happened to me.Â  Turn the key, and

 nothing but the firewall solenoid clunking.Â  Turn it a couple

 more times and everything was great.

 

 I replaced the starter and then things were fine, but, I did

 one thing in the meantime.Â  The old starter was wired per

 Van's plans where you have both the fat wire and the other

 wire running from the firewall solenoid to the starter solenoid.

 So one big terminal and one small terminal on each end...jumper

 removed on the starter.

 

 The new starter I wired with just the single fat wire.

 Since it was an NL starter, you have to wire them with

 just the fat wire.

 

 With that, everything works fine.

 

 And, bench testing the starter for both the solenoid action,

 and the combined solenoid+spin worked just fine many many

 times during the test.

 

 So ultimately I'm guessing I wasn't making good contact

 on the small terminal of the firewall solenoid.Â  I can't

 remember if that was the "S" terminal or not off hand as I

 type this.

 

 Anyway, just something to consider.

 

 Tim

 

 

 

 On 03/08/2017 02:32 PM, Charlie England wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 -------- Original message --------

 From: RV7ASask

 Date:03/08/2017 2:27 PM (GMT-05:00)

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Starter Hesitation

 

 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV7ASask" <rv7alamb(at)sasktel.net (rv7alamb(at)sasktel.net)>

 

 The "pause" is absolute silence. Nothing. It could be as long as four or

 five seconds then rotation.

 

 David

 

 If not even a click, that points to the start switch, or a sticking

 start solenoid.

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467031#467031

 

 

 	
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edwclg

Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 19

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:10 pm Post subject: Starter Hesitation

Let me ask this. Does this happen only when the engine is hot?Â 

If so I'll relate my 2 cents

Ed Clegg



On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 1:59 PM user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>  There could be a mechanical problem with the engine or starter.Â  If those have been ruled out, next check for voltage drops in the starter circuit.Â  It is much easier to find bad connections when the circuit is under heavy load.Â  Disconnect the starter motor and connect a heavy load in its place.Â  While current is flowing, measure the voltage between the battery positive post and the positive terminal at the starter end.Â  And then measure voltage between the battery negative post and starter ground.  -------- Joe Gores     Read this topic online here:  http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467028#467028       ===========  - _msg"> il_msg"> mail_msg"> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ===========  FORUMS - il_msg"> eferrer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com =========== WIKI - "> errer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com =========== b Site - Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ===========

RV7ASask

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 36

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Starter Hesitation

"Let me ask this. Does this happen only when the engine is hot? 

If so I'll relate my 2 cents"



No, the last start, a couple of days ago, was the first for a couple of months and there was a long "pause". Last year this pause was happening with both a hot and a cold engine,



David

edwclg

Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 19

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:42 am Post subject: Starter Hesitation

Mine has been doing it for the past 750 hours. I changed out the s relay with a Sky Tech and it has not done it as much. It only happens when the engine is hot

Ed

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:43 PM RV7ASask <rv7alamb(at)sasktel.net (rv7alamb(at)sasktel.net)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV7ASask" <rv7alamb(at)sasktel.net (rv7alamb(at)sasktel.net)>  "Let me ask this. Does this happen only when the engine is hot? If so I'll relate my 2 cents"  No, the last start, a couple of days ago, was the first for a couple of months and there was a long "pause". Last year this pause was happening with both a hot and a cold engine,  David     Read this topic online here:  http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467086#467086       ===========  - _msg"> il_msg"> mail_msg"> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ===========  FORUMS - il_msg"> eferrer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com =========== WIKI - "> errer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com =========== b Site - Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin. rel="noreferrer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ===========

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